Columbia students taking questions

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
woosterst
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Re: Columbia 1L(s) taking questions

Postby woosterst » Fri Dec 12, 2014 4:17 pm

TheoO wrote:You'll probably have 9am classes at least a couple of days of the week, whether it is mon-wed or tues-thurs.


almondjoy wrote:I think 9 am classes are pretty typical 1L year. My roommate and I are in different sections this semester and we both had 9 am classes mon-wed


Thanks for the responses! very helpful. Do people join clubs or student organizations 1L year? Which are the most popular/common? Just curious since I'm not sure I have a very good feel for what law school is like outside the classroom.

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Nebby
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Re: Columbia 1L(s) taking questions

Postby Nebby » Fri Dec 12, 2014 5:09 pm

woosterst wrote:
TheoO wrote:You'll probably have 9am classes at least a couple of days of the week, whether it is mon-wed or tues-thurs.


almondjoy wrote:I think 9 am classes are pretty typical 1L year. My roommate and I are in different sections this semester and we both had 9 am classes mon-wed


Thanks for the responses! very helpful. Do people join clubs or student organizations 1L year? Which are the most popular/common? Just curious since I'm not sure I have a very good feel for what law school is like outside the classroom.

It's like undergrad. There's no difference socially/extracurricularly.

officer-rabbit
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Re: Columbia 1L(s) taking questions

Postby officer-rabbit » Fri Dec 12, 2014 5:12 pm

TheoO wrote:Yea, fraud, parole, and 2-207. Where we rushed at the end just to complete. I had read through the material pretty thoroughly but I still didn't have too great of a grasp. Fucking sucked. Luckily I found one minor detail in the fact pattern from an anecdote he brought up in class relative to 2-306 that I regurgitated in the essay.

Fuck that guy. Also, I spent so much time preparing for that exam that I've completely ignored CivPro and Torts. Nevermind that time I should have spent taking practice tests was spent catching up to the material.

lol no chance Kraus reads the essays, sorry bud

TheoO
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Re: Columbia 1L(s) taking questions

Postby TheoO » Fri Dec 12, 2014 11:48 pm

I'd probably be better if he didn't. I don't know what the fuck was going on in that fact-pattern. It was a shit-show.

TheoO
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Re: Columbia 1L(s) taking questions

Postby TheoO » Sat Dec 13, 2014 3:30 am

CounselorNebby wrote:
woosterst wrote:
TheoO wrote:You'll probably have 9am classes at least a couple of days of the week, whether it is mon-wed or tues-thurs.


almondjoy wrote:I think 9 am classes are pretty typical 1L year. My roommate and I are in different sections this semester and we both had 9 am classes mon-wed


Thanks for the responses! very helpful. Do people join clubs or student organizations 1L year? Which are the most popular/common? Just curious since I'm not sure I have a very good feel for what law school is like outside the classroom.

It's like undergrad. There's no difference socially/extracurricularly.


It feels worse than undergrad. The social group is smaller, the area is smaller... I actually wish that CLS would have classes around campus so I wouldn't feel so shut into the law school.

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jbagelboy
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Re: Columbia 1L(s) taking questions

Postby jbagelboy » Sat Dec 13, 2014 12:41 pm

TheoO wrote:
CounselorNebby wrote:
woosterst wrote:
TheoO wrote:You'll probably have 9am classes at least a couple of days of the week, whether it is mon-wed or tues-thurs.


almondjoy wrote:I think 9 am classes are pretty typical 1L year. My roommate and I are in different sections this semester and we both had 9 am classes mon-wed


Thanks for the responses! very helpful. Do people join clubs or student organizations 1L year? Which are the most popular/common? Just curious since I'm not sure I have a very good feel for what law school is like outside the classroom.

It's like undergrad. There's no difference socially/extracurricularly.


It feels worse than undergrad. The social group is smaller, the area is smaller... I actually wish that CLS would have classes around campus so I wouldn't feel so shut into the law school.


I don't agree law school is like undergrad at all. I think it's totally dependent on what your college experience was like and your personal approach to law school. I wouldn't read anyone's personal testimony on that note as gospel.

Law school can be a very independent, professional process, or it can be a very personal & involved one. You can make it what you want. CLS generally has a strong community and people socialize with each other, so that's available for you, but you can choose how much time you want to spent in JG in that environment; for some people, that's just class and they have completely separate lives in the city, for others they basically live there.

There are many ways to get involved in student organizations and they are very accessible. CBLA and CSIL are some of the larger ones but there are tons of affinity and interest groups as well. Personally I think moot courts are among the most rewarding (and challenging) so I definitely encourage people to apply to those in the fall. Some people overload though and try to take on a lot at the beginning and then realize as finals approach they can't handle it, so that's always something to look out for.

Humbert Humbert
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Re: Columbia 1L(s) taking questions

Postby Humbert Humbert » Sat Dec 13, 2014 1:39 pm

1L here. I would co-sign jbagel's post w/r/t the social environment. It's really what you make of it. In my experience, for 1L at least, people are very social for most of the semester (i.e. going to every/most bar reviews, grabbing lunch/dinner, going to student group events, etc.). It gets progressively less social (at least in the ways mentioned above) from probably November on through finals, but that's to be expected.

Also, re: your commute, I live further downtown than you do and the commute is not an issue. Especially if a) you've lived in NY and are familiar/comfortable using the subways; or b) you've worked before law school, and are used to commuting every morning. I find the upside of being outside of Morningside to outweigh whatever marginal downside the commute poses. And as someone else mentioned, you can get a lot of reading done on the subway.

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Nebby
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Re: Columbia 1L(s) taking questions

Postby Nebby » Sat Dec 13, 2014 1:58 pm

jbagelboy wrote:
TheoO wrote:
CounselorNebby wrote:
woosterst wrote:

Thanks for the responses! very helpful. Do people join clubs or student organizations 1L year? Which are the most popular/common? Just curious since I'm not sure I have a very good feel for what law school is like outside the classroom.

It's like undergrad. There's no difference socially/extracurricularly.


It feels worse than undergrad. The social group is smaller, the area is smaller... I actually wish that CLS would have classes around campus so I wouldn't feel so shut into the law school.


I don't agree law school is like undergrad at all. I think it's totally dependent on what your college experience was like and your personal approach to law school. I wouldn't read anyone's personal testimony on that note as gospel.

Law school can be a very independent, professional process, or it can be a very personal & involved one. You can make it what you want. CLS generally has a strong community and people socialize with each other, so that's available for you, but you can choose how much time you want to spent in JG in that environment; for some people, that's just class and they have completely separate lives in the city, for others they basically live there.

There are many ways to get involved in student organizations and they are very accessible. CBLA and CSIL are some of the larger ones but there are tons of affinity and interest groups as well. Personally I think moot courts are among the most rewarding (and challenging) so I definitely encourage people to apply to those in the fall. Some people overload though and try to take on a lot at the beginning and then realize as finals approach they can't handle it, so that's always something to look out for.


In my effort to be brief, I'm often so brief my point is only understandable to myself. That's my fault. What I meant by "just like undergrad" is exactly what you pointed out. As in undergrad, your law school experience is whatever you make of it.

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MCFC
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Re: Columbia 1L(s) taking questions

Postby MCFC » Sat Dec 13, 2014 2:23 pm

Anyone else having trouble accessing remote.law.columbia.edu?

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Nebby
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Re: Columbia 1L(s) taking questions

Postby Nebby » Sat Dec 13, 2014 2:57 pm

MCFC wrote:Anyone else having trouble accessing remote.law.columbia.edu?

HTTP/1.1 503 Service Unavailable

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MCFC
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Re: Columbia 1L(s) taking questions

Postby MCFC » Sat Dec 13, 2014 3:07 pm

CounselorNebby wrote:
MCFC wrote:Anyone else having trouble accessing remote.law.columbia.edu?

HTTP/1.1 503 Service Unavailable

Hmm me too, for the past few days. Wanted to make sure it wasn't something on my end. Thanks.

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mylifeis24
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Re: Columbia 1L(s) taking questions

Postby mylifeis24 » Sat Dec 13, 2014 3:11 pm

TheoO wrote:It feels worse than undergrad. The social group is smaller, the area is smaller... I actually wish that CLS would have classes around campus so I wouldn't feel so shut into the law school.


We're right across the street....and away from the undergrads...Win-win to me.

Ditto what JBagel said. I came from a fraternity environment during undergrad, had a blast, and am still having a blast at Columbia (or I was up until November). Different experience for sure, but law school is like everything else in life; what you make of it.

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girlmonster
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Re: Columbia 1L(s) taking questions

Postby girlmonster » Mon Dec 15, 2014 9:20 pm

Do professors have to petition to give B-'s? I've heard yes and no.

ETA: I know they're not required.

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jbagelboy
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Re: Columbia 1L(s) taking questions

Postby jbagelboy » Mon Dec 15, 2014 11:51 pm

girlmonster wrote:Do professors have to petition to give B-'s? I've heard yes and no.

ETA: I know they're not required.


no they don't

who is your prof? feel free to pm. i may be able to tell you whether or not you're at any risk

woosterst
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Re: Columbia 1L(s) taking questions

Postby woosterst » Wed Dec 17, 2014 1:37 pm

Thank you all for your answers re: commute and social life! Very helpful.

I have another, broader question. By the time I graduated UG, I realized there were lots of things I should have thought about and researched before I started school so I could use my time there well. Some examples: what GPAs correspond to what kinds of job prospects in which industries; the relative weight of ECs/majors/other softs to prospective employers; which classes would be important to take vs which classes were a waste of my short time at school; etc. I went to a highly competitive undergraduate school where the admins/profs liked to tell us that any degree in any major could get us anywhere (spoiler alert for any undergrads reading this: that's not true).

Are there any things you wish you'd known before starting law school? I guess this is more a question for 2Ls or 3Ls but any thoughts would be appreciated.

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MCFC
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Re: Columbia 1L(s) taking questions

Postby MCFC » Wed Dec 17, 2014 3:09 pm

I wish I'd worked for a year or two before starting.

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starrydreamz3
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Re: Columbia 1L(s) taking questions

Postby starrydreamz3 » Fri Dec 19, 2014 12:28 am

what GPAs correspond to what kinds of job prospects in which industries

CLS doesn't really disclose GPAs, they go by honors. From what I can tell, there's Kent scholar at a 3.8 (top ~5%) and Stone scholar at around 3.3/3.4 (top ~30%). Only the very few selective big law firms with have a hard cut-off for certain GPAs, but if you want Wachtell/Cravath/S&C (or want to break into a hard market like DC), you need very strong grades. For the most part though, I've seen a range of people get very successful offers from all around the grade spectrum. That being said, I would not want to go into EIP (Columbia's on campus interview program) with straight Bs.

the relative weight of ECs/majors/other softs to prospective employers

Grades are probably the single biggest factor when it comes to law firms, though there are several nice softs to have. Really good work experience (IBanking/Consulting, or even paralegaling at a top firm) will give you much more to talk about in a screener interview that that lunch you planned for your Columbia Australian Law Club. Related here would also be military experience or other degrees (especially in a hard science for patent lawyers). The only soft employers seem to care about is Law Review (yay status symbol?), though I'm sure it's a good thing to pad your resume with a club or two related to what you want to do.

which classes would be important to take vs which classes were a waste of my short time at school

Doesn't really matter for your first year, everything is planned for you. Get here, study hard, get kick ass grades, get a summer offer (happens in August/September after your first year) and then you can figure out which classes you want to fill your last two years with.

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jbagelboy
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Re: Columbia 1L(s) taking questions

Postby jbagelboy » Fri Dec 19, 2014 12:59 am

starrydreamz3 wrote:
what GPAs correspond to what kinds of job prospects in which industries

CLS doesn't really disclose GPAs, they go by honors. From what I can tell, there's Kent scholar at a 3.8 (top ~5%) and Stone scholar at around 3.3/3.4 (top ~30%). Only the very few selective big law firms with have a hard cut-off for certain GPAs, but if you want Wachtell/Cravath/S&C (or want to break into a hard market like DC), you need very strong grades.


agree with generally everything, but for posterity's sake (and because this is something that comes up repeatedly before firm recruiting), those three should not be grouped together as an accurate reflection of selectivity, or constitute an exclusive list of firms for which you need strong grades; to put it simply, at CLS, there will be (1) the majority of firms that will pull median and below and won't be terribly concerned with your grades (but may be selective in other ways), then (2) a smaller number of more selective firms that will look primarily for honors students, such as cravath, davis polk, s&c, STB ect., but where you certainly don't need to be top of the class, and then (3) an even smaller set of extremely selective firms, wachtell among them, where you actually have to have 'very strong' grades and hopefully something else to your credit.

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starrydreamz3
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Re: Columbia 1L(s) taking questions

Postby starrydreamz3 » Fri Dec 19, 2014 1:09 am

jbagelboy wrote:
starrydreamz3 wrote:
what GPAs correspond to what kinds of job prospects in which industries

CLS doesn't really disclose GPAs, they go by honors. From what I can tell, there's Kent scholar at a 3.8 (top ~5%) and Stone scholar at around 3.3/3.4 (top ~30%). Only the very few selective big law firms with have a hard cut-off for certain GPAs, but if you want Wachtell/Cravath/S&C (or want to break into a hard market like DC), you need very strong grades.


agree with generally everything, but for posterity's sake (and because this is something that comes up repeatedly before firm recruiting), those three should not be grouped together as an accurate reflection of selectivity, or constitute an exclusive list of firms for which you need strong grades; to put it simply, at CLS, there will be (1) the majority of firms that will pull median and below and won't be terribly concerned with your grades (but may be selective in other ways), then (2) a smaller number of more selective firms that will look primarily for honors students, such as cravath, davis polk, s&c, STB ect., but where you certainly don't need to be top of the class, and then (3) an even smaller set of extremely selective firms, wachtell among them, where you actually have to have 'very strong' grades and hopefully something else to your credit.


yes agreed, thanks for clarifying what I said.

TheoO
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Re: Columbia 1L(s) taking questions

Postby TheoO » Fri Dec 19, 2014 3:26 am

The majority of CLS grads at Wachtell are Kent.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: Columbia 1L(s) taking questions

Postby Tiago Splitter » Fri Dec 19, 2014 9:31 am

TheoO wrote:The majority of CLS grads at Wachtell are Kent.

you do get three shots at kent

TheoO
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Re: Columbia 1L(s) taking questions

Postby TheoO » Fri Dec 19, 2014 2:33 pm

Tiago Splitter wrote:
TheoO wrote:The majority of CLS grads at Wachtell are Kent.

you do get three shots at kent



Yea, and I imagine it gets easier as a 2L and 3L. Is it the same with LR? Obviously not 3L.

woosterst
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Re: Columbia 1L(s) taking questions

Postby woosterst » Fri Dec 19, 2014 4:51 pm

starrydreamz3 wrote:Doesn't really matter for your first year, everything is planned for you. Get here, study hard, get kick ass grades, get a summer offer (happens in August/September after your first year) and then you can figure out which classes you want to fill your last two years with.



Are there any 2L/3L courses considered standard/common/core classes? I'm sure it depends what your interests are and what you plan to do after graduation, but I'm still interested in any generalizations. From what I've gleaned it seems Evidence and Fed Courts are common choices? Are there others? Am I totally off-base?

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ph5354a
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Re: Columbia 1L(s) taking questions

Postby ph5354a » Fri Dec 19, 2014 7:13 pm

woosterst wrote:
starrydreamz3 wrote:Doesn't really matter for your first year, everything is planned for you. Get here, study hard, get kick ass grades, get a summer offer (happens in August/September after your first year) and then you can figure out which classes you want to fill your last two years with.



Are there any 2L/3L courses considered standard/common/core classes? I'm sure it depends what your interests are and what you plan to do after graduation, but I'm still interested in any generalizations. From what I've gleaned it seems Evidence and Fed Courts are common choices? Are there others? Am I totally off-base?


Corporations, Tax, Admin, Evidence, and Fed Courts if you're want to clerk.
http://web.law.columbia.edu/students/st ... -selection

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ph5354a
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Re: Columbia 1L(s) taking questions

Postby ph5354a » Fri Dec 19, 2014 7:16 pm

Relatedly, does anyone know if Raskolnikov uses the same tax casebook as the other professors --Federal Income Taxation by Blankman/Shaviro/Stark?




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