Columbia students taking questions Forum

[JVK]

Can anyone give some feedback on Goshen and Judge for Corporations, if Jackson doesn't work out?

[moonman157]

Probably a stupid question, but how do we get a copy of our transcripts? Are you guys getting electronic ones and sending those out to firms?

[txdude45]

Probably a stupid question, but how do we get a copy of our transcripts? Are you guys getting electronic ones and sending those out to firms?

You can just ctrl+p on the transcript page, then save as a PDF. Just make sure you click the little button at the top corner so it shows your name. I have not heard of anyone having to submit an official transcript.

[moonman157]

Probably a stupid question, but how do we get a copy of our transcripts? Are you guys getting electronic ones and sending those out to firms?

You can just ctrl+p on the transcript page, then save as a PDF. Just make sure you click the little button at the top corner so it shows your name. I have not heard of anyone having to submit an official transcript.

Thanks! When I went to order it, it said that I had only completed 4 out of the 16 credits for spring semester? Huh?

[starrydreamz3]

Probably a stupid question, but how do we get a copy of our transcripts? Are you guys getting electronic ones and sending those out to firms?

You can just ctrl+p on the transcript page, then save as a PDF. Just make sure you click the little button at the top corner so it shows your name. I have not heard of anyone having to submit an official transcript.

Thanks! When I went to order it, it said that I had only completed 4 out of the 16 credits for spring semester? Huh?

I believe it takes a while for LawNet to send the information over to SSOL.

[mylifeis24]

Alright wise Columbia students. Like many on TLS, I have read a lot of the how to succeed study guides, and everyone seems to have a variety of answers. Honestly, I'm a bit lost about what I should be doing as a 0L, and what I should be doing during 1L. Here's what I've gathered so far from the various sources of advice:

0L

-Read "Getting to Maybe"
-Listen to/read LEEWS
-Read "How to Do Your Best on Law School Exams"
-DON'T read any of the E&E, Hornooks or Casebooks

1L

-Read casebook, but don't meticulously read the cases and memorize the facts. Brief the cases BRIEFLY through the LEEWS method.
-Read E&E entirely and thoroughly, early on in the semester
-Read Hornbooks entirely and thoroughly throughout the semester
-Halfway through the semester, start taking practice exams.
-During the 4 weeks before finals, make a concise outline of all the rules and cases and a big-picture analysis.

Is this the general gist of it all, or am I missing something/doing too much? Do you find that this fits most 1L classes at Columbia? Thanks for your assistance. I'm really not understanding all of this, and I know that it's in part because I haven't experienced a single 1L class yet, but I'm getting antsy.

[jbagelboy]

So, this is what I did, and it worked out fine for me:

0L

-Read [About 25 pages of] "Getting to Maybe"
-Listen to/read LEEWS
-Read "How to Do Your Best on Law School Exams"
-DON'T read any of the E&E, Hornooks or Casebooks

1L

-Read casebook, but don't meticulously read the cases and memorize the facts. Brief the cases BRIEFLY through the LEEWS method.
-Read E&E only when you are truly struggling with a particular topic - for example, if you literally don't understand Erie, look at the E&Eentirely and thoroughly, early on in the semester
-Read Hornbooks cursorily and primarily when you don't understand a topic, except in Con Law (Chemerinsky) or maybe with Kraus, since he doesn't test to material taught in classentirely and thoroughly throughout the semester
-Halfway through the semester,Sometime around or just before Thanksgiving/Easter, start taking practice exams.
-During the 4 weeks before finals, make a concise outline of all the rules and cases and a big-picture analysis.

You'll notice it's a lot lighter. Practice exams and creating your own outline are very important (it will be tempting to just take prior years outlines, and while they can be instructive guides for yours, still try making your own), but not everything can be so accelerated. For example, if you tried doing a PT midway through fall semester (like Oct 20 or something), you would know effectively none of the material and it would be discouraging and a huge waste of time. Just my opinion though.

Is this the general gist of it all, or am I missing something/doing too much? Do you find that this fits most 1L classes at Columbia? Thanks for your assistance. I'm really not understanding all of this, and I know that it's in part because I haven't experienced a single 1L class yet, but I'm getting antsy.

In all honesty, relax! try to enjoy your summer. I appreciate the desire to get things moving, but in the grand scheme it actually won't make any difference and you really don't want to burn yourself out early. Enjoy the beginning of the semester, since over-studying is pretty worthless when you don't really know what's going on.

[ph5354a]

Agree with bagel's response. That antsy feeling never goes away, btw. Your use of E&E's and hornbooks will depend largely on your professor and the course. Talk to 2/3Ls (hiiiiii) once you know your schedule. For some professors, they will be useless, for others (Shaw), they will be all you have.

[jbagelboy]

Your use of E&E's and hornbooks will depend largely on your professor and the course. Talk to 2/3Ls (hiiiiii) once you know your schedule. For some professors, they will be useless, for others (Shaw), they will be all you have.

True, I should have been more clear. I would recommend your MO with out of class material like hornbooks start with knowing they are available to you, when necessary, but not at all obligatory. Get a feel for the class, talk to upperclassmen, see if you have a TA, and if you feel like you aren't really learning anything, might be time to lean on a supplement.

They can also be useful for random bits of material. For example, to (at least my) surprise, our property exam had an RAP question... I wouldn't have had a fcking clue if it weren't for Sprankling's sub-chapter devoted to it, because I'm pretty sure even our professor, bless his heart, could not work his way through the rule against perpetuities.

[ph5354a]

I'm pretty sure even our professor, bless his heart, could not work his way through the rule against perpetuities.

This is so true.

[txdude45]

Agree with bagel's response. That antsy feeling never goes away, btw. Your use of E&E's and hornbooks will depend largely on your professor and the course. Talk to 2/3Ls (hiiiiii) once you know your schedule. For some professors, they will be useless, for others (Shaw), they will be all you have.

Anit-Shaw trolling of the worst kind. Say what you will about him, he telegraphed the exam from day 1, which more than makes up for his class being 76.037% anecdotes.

[ph5354a]

Agree with bagel's response. That antsy feeling never goes away, btw. Your use of E&E's and hornbooks will depend largely on your professor and the course. Talk to 2/3Ls (hiiiiii) once you know your schedule. For some professors, they will be useless, for others (Shaw), they will be all you have.

Anit-Shaw trolling of the worst kind. Say what you will about him, he telegraphed the exam from day 1, which more than makes up for his class being 76.037% anecdotes.

You know I love him. I still hear his voice in my head sometimes. I stand by my statement.

[MCFC]

Just to add my two cents...

Last summer, I made a list of things I wanted to do before school started. It included reading those books on your list and learning how to type faster -- didn't wind up doing either of those things, and things were fine. (Which isn't to say they'd have hurt).

Reading/briefing cases: I never formally briefed a case in terms of IRAC or whatever the LEEWS method is. I did take stream of consciousness notes while reading though which wound up being the same length. I probably agree with the idea that this was unnecessary, but I could never bring myself to quit. I also went pretty heavy on the facts in the two classes I had that used intense cold calls, maybe that was a waste as well.

E&Es: Our CivPro class had the E&E as a required book, so I used that one a little more heavily. Other than that, they were something I flipped through at finals time.

Hornbooks: First semester, I did very little with hornbooks. Second semester, I read the relevant sections along with the reading for the week. I didn't see a difference in performance either semester, so maybe the second semester approach was overkill.

Outlines: I actually used outlines from previous years for CivPro and Torts - though by the time I had added new cases, deleted old ones, and moved things around they wound up looking somewhat different - so I'm not sure I totally agree with bagel about how important it is to make your own.

[mylifeis24]

Thanks for all of your advice. Really glad to have TLS as a resource.

Reading the "Success in Law School: A Unique Perspective" article made it seem like E&E and Hornbooks were the only thing that mattered to acing the final exam and studying the big picture concepts and how the rules and cases fit into them. But I guess that your collective experience at Columbia says to use different tools for different classes based on past experiences, and professor and TA recommendations. Was really hoping for a one-size fits all approach, but I guess that wouldn't be law school then, would it?

[JVK]

Sadly, no.

Everyone else has been spot on, but I'd add that just about everyone understands the black letter law by exam time, which is what the E&E's best for learning. Nobody's going to forget that diversity jurisdiction requires complete diversity of the parties and more than $75,000 in controversy, or the basic holding of Calder v. Jones. Knowledge of the uncontroversial concepts is more of a baseline rather than what separates you.

You distinguish yourself by understanding exactly what your specific professor wants and nuance of analysis, i.e. drawing parallels to cases and where your fact pattern falls along the spectrum, and how you play with the facts. That's where your professor's own past exams and model answers can help tremendously.

Since law school exams are extremely professor-specific, one of the best things you can do early on is find upperclassmen who've had your professors and ask about them - not necessarily outlines, but what they look for in a test, how to study, and so on. I had Heller for Property this last year, and I had to do some fairly extreme custom-tailoring on my outline. I couldn't have walked into Liebman's or Briffault's and crushed it, nor could those students have jumped into a Heller exam readily.

[BigLaw_Lit]

Thanks to the upper classmen for the responses. Just curious about getting outlines and exams. Where did you guys get these? Also do most professors release their old exams - how many? Is using other professors exams helpful? Thanks again

[Taus11]

.

[cws277]

You distinguish yourself by understanding exactly what your specific professor wants and nuance of analysis, i.e. drawing parallels to cases and where your fact pattern falls along the spectrum, and how you play with the facts. That's where your professor's own past exams and model answers can help tremendously.

Also a good reason to go to class. Especially if you know your professor has a unique approach to certain issues (HELLER).

Also yes. Don't do anything right now. Enjoy your summer. Then drink your way through Legal Methods. Then drink your way through the first several months of 1L. Then outline starting sometime in November and start reading old exams and model answers in late November and December.

[ph5354a]

Thanks to the upper classmen for the responses. Just curious about getting outlines and exams. Where did you guys get these? Also do most professors release their old exams - how many? Is using other professors exams helpful? Thanks again

There's a website the Student Senate runs (I think?) that stores outlines and old exams. Sometimes professors will release additional exams. The availability of old exams will vary widely, and there are certainly instances where you have to rely on other professors' practice exams. Always save the most recent exams from your current professor for when you're most prepared to take a practice exam, don't waste those on your first run-through.

[banjo]

I mostly agree with everyone else. I had a good year too, with some differences:

-I relied very heavily on supplements during the semester. I carefully read Glannon's Civ Pro and Torts E&Es, Chemerinsky (Con Law), Chirelstein (Contracts), and even worked through the E&E on Crim (a horrible supplement). The E&Es helped me think through the rules and see new issues. I also tried to mimic Glannon's clear writing style on my exams.

-I skimmed the entire casebook at the end of the semester, re-reading cases that I vaguely remember the professor spending a lot of time on. I spent three full days in the month before finals reading Property, for example.

-Unfortunately, I never figured out how to make use of class time. I took zero notes in Crim, Contracts, Civ Pro, Con Law, or my elective. I didn't look at my Property notes at all when outlining. I took notes in Torts, but deleted most of it when outlining. I also missed 5-10 sessions in each class, but always had a vague idea of what the professor was spending a lot of time on. I think this hurt me most in Con Law.

[runthetrap]

this is a really trivial question, but do the kitchens in lionsgate have ovens?

thanks!

[starrydreamz3]

I mostly agree with everyone else. I had a good year too, with some differences:

-I relied very heavily on supplements during the semester. I carefully read Glannon's Civ Pro and Torts E&Es, Chemerinsky (Con Law), Chirelstein (Contracts), and even worked through the E&E on Crim (a horrible supplement). The E&Es helped me think through the rules and see new issues. I also tried to mimic Glannon's clear writing style on my exams.

-I skimmed the entire casebook at the end of the semester, re-reading cases that I vaguely remember the professor spending a lot of time on. I spent three full days in the month before finals reading Property, for example.

-Unfortunately, I never figured out how to make use of class time. I took zero notes in Crim, Contracts, Civ Pro, Con Law, or my elective. I didn't look at my Property notes at all when outlining. I took notes in Torts, but deleted most of it when outlining. I also missed 5-10 sessions in each class, but always had a vague idea of what the professor was spending a lot of time on. I think this hurt me most in Con Law.

This is almost the complete opposite of what I did (disregarded most supplements, attended every class, created my outline entirely from detailed class notes), and I also did very well. Just goes to show that everyone will have different styles and you 1Ls should not drastically change your habits because you think there's a "right" way to study for law school.

[runthetrap]

everyone will have different styles and you 1Ls should not drastically change your habits because you think there's a "right" way to study for law school.

every single law student i've spoken to has given me this advice.

[starrydreamz3]

everyone will have different styles and you 1Ls should not drastically change your habits because you think there's a "right" way to study for law school.

every single law student i've spoken to has given me this advice.

It's really true. The only thing I'd recommend is asking 2Ls/3Ls about specific professors to see if any of them have particular quirks. That way you know, for example, that Heller likes to use multiple choice questions taken from class discussion for his Property exam, which means you should take really good class notes.

[cws277]

everyone will have different styles and you 1Ls should not drastically change your habits because you think there's a "right" way to study for law school.

every single law student i've spoken to has given me this advice.

It's really true. The only thing I'd recommend is asking 2Ls/3Ls about specific professors to see if any of them have particular quirks. That way you know, for example, that Heller likes to use multiple choice questions taken from class discussion for his Property exam, which means you should take really good class notes.

Lol, I didn't even notice that he did this. So don't ask me about prof quirks.