How big is the difference between YHS and CCN?

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sven
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Re: How big is the difference between YHS and CCN?

Postby sven » Mon Jan 16, 2012 6:50 pm

Helmholtz wrote:
abl wrote:2. HYS have no grades. That = a much more cooperative and much less stressful experience.
3. The biggest difference between HYS and CCN is not in terms of NYC biglaw, but in terms of . . . academic jobs


As for #2, I'm fairly certain that HLS has "no grades" for the purposes of promotional booklets only.


What does this mean? I thought HLS only has Honors and Pass, as well as Distinction and Low Pass that are given rarely and at the professors' discretion.

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bk1
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Re: How big is the difference between YHS and CCN?

Postby bk1 » Mon Jan 16, 2012 6:53 pm

sven wrote:
Helmholtz wrote:
abl wrote:2. HYS have no grades. That = a much more cooperative and much less stressful experience.
3. The biggest difference between HYS and CCN is not in terms of NYC biglaw, but in terms of . . . academic jobs


As for #2, I'm fairly certain that HLS has "no grades" for the purposes of promotional booklets only.


What does this mean? I thought HLS only has Honors and Pass, as well as Distinction and Low Pass that are given rarely and at the professors' discretion.


Employers will still be able to approximate your class rank based on the number of H's and P's you get. So effectively you do still have grades.

09042014
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Re: How big is the difference between YHS and CCN?

Postby 09042014 » Mon Jan 16, 2012 6:55 pm

bk1 wrote:
sven wrote:
Helmholtz wrote:
abl wrote:2. HYS have no grades. That = a much more cooperative and much less stressful experience.
3. The biggest difference between HYS and CCN is not in terms of NYC biglaw, but in terms of . . . academic jobs


As for #2, I'm fairly certain that HLS has "no grades" for the purposes of promotional booklets only.


What does this mean? I thought HLS only has Honors and Pass, as well as Distinction and Low Pass that are given rarely and at the professors' discretion.


Employers will still be able to approximate your class rank based on the number of H's and P's you get. So effectively you do still have grades.


A+ = DS
A/A- = HP
B+/B = P
B- = LP

It's really easy to use their "non grades" to make grades.

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samsonyte16
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Re: How big is the difference between YHS and CCN?

Postby samsonyte16 » Mon Jan 16, 2012 6:56 pm

B- does not equal LP. I'm pretty confident employers don't actually look at HLS grades that way.

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BruceWayne
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Re: How big is the difference between YHS and CCN?

Postby BruceWayne » Mon Jan 16, 2012 6:57 pm

Desert Fox wrote:A+ = DS
A/A- = HP
B+/B = P
B- = LP

It's really easy to use their "non grades" to make grades.


Did they cut out that mandatory bottom 10 percent of each class get's a LP B/S? Because if they did that would be pretty close to having no grades. Firms couldn't differentiate between median and below then (i.e what happens at Stanford), making it a lot easier to get a firm job.

B- does not equal LP. I'm pretty confident employers don't actually look at HLS grades that way.


If LP= bottom 10 percent then exactly how do they look at it then? Not trying to be rude--serious question.

citydweller09
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Re: How big is the difference between YHS and CCN?

Postby citydweller09 » Mon Jan 16, 2012 7:11 pm

BruceWayne wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:A+ = DS
A/A- = HP
B+/B = P
B- = LP

It's really easy to use their "non grades" to make grades.


Did they cut out that mandatory bottom 10 percent of each class get's a LP B/S?


It was 8%, and it stopped being mandatory about two years ago. Many professors don't give out any LPs at all, and those that do use them don't necessarily give them to the whole bottom 8%. Rather, in most cases it seems to be reserved for the most egregiously bad cases, i.e. people not even putting in a good faith effort. So functionally, the only grades that exist for the vast majority of students are H and P.

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TatteredDignity
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Re: How big is the difference between YHS and CCN?

Postby TatteredDignity » Mon Jan 16, 2012 7:50 pm

Could someone give an example of the "prestigious government jobs" being talked about in this thread?

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BruceWayne
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Re: How big is the difference between YHS and CCN?

Postby BruceWayne » Mon Jan 16, 2012 7:56 pm

0LNewbie wrote:Could someone give an example of the "prestigious government jobs" being talked about in this thread?


Any DOJ litigating branch (criminal, civil, antitrust, civil rights, tax).

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TatteredDignity
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Re: How big is the difference between YHS and CCN?

Postby TatteredDignity » Mon Jan 16, 2012 8:10 pm

And those are accessed solely through honors and slip, right?

09042014
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Re: How big is the difference between YHS and CCN?

Postby 09042014 » Mon Jan 16, 2012 8:25 pm

samsonyte16 wrote:B- does not equal LP. I'm pretty confident employers don't actually look at HLS grades that way.


B- is just as arbitrary as LP is. B- at Cornell isn't the same as B- at Michigan or B- at UVA. Though I'd imagine LP looks worse than a B-, because LP's are discretionary and much more rare than B-. But they are close enough.

My point isn't that LP is a B-, but that you can clearly see how people did even with harvard's scale. It's barely different from the ones the other T14's use except they don't have as much differentiation.

citydweller09
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Re: How big is the difference between YHS and CCN?

Postby citydweller09 » Mon Jan 16, 2012 8:40 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
samsonyte16 wrote:B- does not equal LP. I'm pretty confident employers don't actually look at HLS grades that way.


B- is just as arbitrary as LP is. B- at Cornell isn't the same as B- at Michigan or B- at UVA. Though I'd imagine LP looks worse than a B-, because LP's are discretionary and much more rare than B-. But they are close enough.

My point isn't that LP is a B-, but that you can clearly see how people did even with harvard's scale. It's barely different from the ones the other T14's use except they don't have as much differentiation.


That seems like a pretty huge difference. It's the entire point of the grading system.

sven
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Re: How big is the difference between YHS and CCN?

Postby sven » Mon Jan 16, 2012 8:55 pm

citydweller09 wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
samsonyte16 wrote:B- does not equal LP. I'm pretty confident employers don't actually look at HLS grades that way.


B- is just as arbitrary as LP is. B- at Cornell isn't the same as B- at Michigan or B- at UVA. Though I'd imagine LP looks worse than a B-, because LP's are discretionary and much more rare than B-. But they are close enough.

My point isn't that LP is a B-, but that you can clearly see how people did even with harvard's scale. It's barely different from the ones the other T14's use except they don't have as much differentiation.


That seems like a pretty huge difference. It's the entire point of the grading system.


It also seems to me that Harvard's system is just like Stanford's. Yet nobody makes ever tries to make the point that Stanford's Honors and Pass system is "barely different from the ones the other T14's use." Berkeley, on the other hand, does have a high amount of gradation in its system.

09042014
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Re: How big is the difference between YHS and CCN?

Postby 09042014 » Mon Jan 16, 2012 9:09 pm

citydweller09 wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
samsonyte16 wrote:B- does not equal LP. I'm pretty confident employers don't actually look at HLS grades that way.


B- is just as arbitrary as LP is. B- at Cornell isn't the same as B- at Michigan or B- at UVA. Though I'd imagine LP looks worse than a B-, because LP's are discretionary and much more rare than B-. But they are close enough.

My point isn't that LP is a B-, but that you can clearly see how people did even with harvard's scale. It's barely different from the ones the other T14's use except they don't have as much differentiation.


That seems like a pretty huge difference. It's the entire point of the grading system.


It really depends on how often LPs are given. It used to be 8% of the class, now it's non discretionary. If it's still around 8%, it's a B-. But it is only being used to punish students who are basically winging it, it's a C.

I suspect different professors use it differently. Which sucks. It should be standardized.

neuroticjew
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Re: How big is the difference between YHS and CCN?

Postby neuroticjew » Tue Jan 17, 2012 10:29 am

Purely hypothetical here, but: anyone know one's chances of successfully transferring to HLS after a year at CCN? (I assume better than transferring to YLS or SLS given their smaller class sizes...)

dixiecupdrinking
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Re: How big is the difference between YHS and CCN?

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Tue Jan 17, 2012 1:48 pm

neuroticjew wrote:Purely hypothetical here, but: anyone know one's chances of successfully transferring to HLS after a year at CCN? (I assume better than transferring to YLS or SLS given their smaller class sizes...)

Just a guess, but I'd imagine you'd need to be top 25% to have a shot. Maybe higher?

You'd probably have to be doing well enough at CCN for transferring not to make a ton of sense. I think it would be crazy to go from Columbia or NYU Law Review to an unknown 2L at Harvard, for instance.

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Helmholtz
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Re: How big is the difference between YHS and CCN?

Postby Helmholtz » Tue Jan 17, 2012 1:56 pm

dixiecupdrinking wrote:
neuroticjew wrote:Purely hypothetical here, but: anyone know one's chances of successfully transferring to HLS after a year at CCN? (I assume better than transferring to YLS or SLS given their smaller class sizes...)

Just a guess, but I'd imagine you'd need to be top 25% to have a shot. Maybe higher?

You'd probably have to be doing well enough at CCN for transferring not to make a ton of sense. I think it would be crazy to go from Columbia or NYU Law Review to an unknown 2L at Harvard, for instance.


There might also be an assumption, during OCI, that you transferred to have a better shot at academia. And not a horrible assumption to make considering there really is no other reason to transfer to HYS after being near the top of the class at CCN. It's certainly not to have a better chance at lining up a prestigious biglaw job. IIRC, there was an NYU -> YLS transfer on here who ran into some trouble in this regard.




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