NYU 1L Taking Questions Forum

[birdlaw117]

mkay thx

I met you today and you don't know who I am. Creepy? I think so.

[smokeylarue]

Past present and future NYU students, I just copy pasted the ASW schedule from the admitted students website. You guys attending both days? Is there any particular days/events you guys think are more important than others. I'm trying to book my flights right now, wondering what's important/most enjoyable.

Thursday Program
12:30 p.m. – 7:30 p.m.
D’Agostino Hall, 108 West Third Street (Google Map)

Arrival and Check-in
Student Life Panel
Class Visits
NYU Campus Tour
Student Organization and Journals Fair
Panel Discussion with Recent Alumni
Pizza Party with Current Students and Recent Alumni
Evening out in Greenwich Village with Current Students


Friday Program
8:30 a.m. – 6:00 p.m.
Vanderbilt Hall, 40 Washington Square South (Google Map)

Arrival and Check-in
Continental Breakfast and Welcome
Conversation with Dean Richard Revesz
Academic Presentations
Class Visits
Lunch with Faculty
NYU Law Students Panel
Campus Tours
Career Services Panel
Public Interest Law Center Panel
Student Financial Services Panel
Reception with Current Students

[snehpets]

So, people are always posting around this site the SA statistics for 2Ls or whatever. The most recent I read was for 2011 and had 70% of 2Ls finding SAs. 2010 had a horrifying 55%. I noticed that UChi and Columbia both had much higher numbers for this statistic, which I guess is unsurprising since they're ranked higher. I was just worried if this was something you guys are worried about, something you considered when making your decision, if these numbers are misleading in some way (PI stuff, maybe?).

Basically, I really like NYU, but I also really like not being bankrupt, so I'm looking for some reassurance here, haha. I would particularly be interested in hearing from people who had the choice between NYU and UChi (which I don't bc UChi hates me, lol, or NYU and CLS), but any info from anyone, no matter how anecdotal, would be helpful. Thanks!

[pupperoni]

ranked higher does not equal better placement into biglaw. nyu was 4th for a while but their biglaw placement was still slightly below cls. uchi was 5th for a while but their placement was below mvp during the recession. nyu's percentages may be slightly lower but it is because nyu students self select and more of them pursue PI/Gov jobs. recently it has been around 10%-20% nyu students compared to very few by CLS and almost non existent uchi students going into those jobs. this explains the lower biglaw placement percentages compared to cls and uchi.

i went through nyu vs cls vs uchi last year and i ultimately decided nyu. between cls and nyu, there is barely a difference in opportunities except cls has a slight one in biglaw and nyu has one in pi/gov. i went to nyu because they offered slightly more $ and i wanted a pi job. as for uchi vs nyu/cls, i think it is based on preference. if you want academia or clerkships, uchi probably has a slight edge but not a significant one. if you want nyc biglaw, nyu/cls has as slight edge but uchi does very well there as well. i think when it comes to CCN choices, you need to visit the schools and see which one will make you happier because the placement power of each school is too similar.

lol, you got rejected from bc and washington? yield protection i assume?

[snehpets]

ranked higher does not equal better placement into biglaw. nyu was 4th for a while but their biglaw placement was still slightly below cls. uchi was 5th for a while but their placement was below mvp during the recession. nyu's percentages may be slightly lower but it is because nyu students self select and more of them pursue PI/Gov jobs. recently it has been around 10%-20% nyu students compared to very few by CLS and almost non existent uchi students going into those jobs. this explains the lower biglaw placement percentages compared to cls and uchi.

i went through nyu vs cls vs uchi last year and i ultimately decided nyu. between cls and nyu, there is barely a difference in opportunities except cls has a slight one in biglaw and nyu has one in pi/gov. i went to nyu because they offered slightly more $ and i wanted a pi job. as for uchi vs nyu/cls, i think it is based on preference. if you want academia or clerkships, uchi probably has a slight edge but not a significant one. if you want nyc biglaw, nyu/cls has as slight edge but uchi does very well there as well. i think when it comes to CCN choices, you need to visit the schools and see which one will make you happier because the placement power of each school is too similar.

lol, you got rejected from bc and washington? yield protection i assume?

thanks, this was reassuring. and haha, yeah, WLed at BC, rejected at Washington. I was kind of surprised at the outright reject, but maybe there was something about my application that they didn't like.

[pupperoni]

lol nothing was wrong with your application, they both knew you would not be going there and saved you the time of emailing them a withdraw letter.

[Nelson]

ranked higher does not equal better placement into biglaw. nyu was 4th for a while but their biglaw placement was still slightly below cls. uchi was 5th for a while but their placement was below mvp during the recession. nyu's percentages may be slightly lower but it is because nyu students self select and more of them pursue PI/Gov jobs. recently it has been around 10%-20% nyu students compared to very few by CLS and almost non existent uchi students going into those jobs. this explains the lower biglaw placement percentages compared to cls and uchi.

i went through nyu vs cls vs uchi last year and i ultimately decided nyu. between cls and nyu, there is barely a difference in opportunities except cls has a slight one in biglaw and nyu has one in pi/gov. i went to nyu because they offered slightly more $ and i wanted a pi job. as for uchi vs nyu/cls, i think it is based on preference. if you want academia or clerkships, uchi probably has a slight edge but not a significant one. if you want nyc biglaw, nyu/cls has as slight edge but uchi does very well there as well. i think when it comes to CCN choices, you need to visit the schools and see which one will make you happier because the placement power of each school is too similar.

lol, you got rejected from bc and washington? yield protection i assume?

Are you even a current NYU student?

[snehpets]

Are you even a current NYU student?

Ugh, I KNEW I recognized that username. Any ACTUAL NYU 1Ls want to answer?

[booboo]

So, people are always posting around this site the SA statistics for 2Ls or whatever. The most recent I read was for 2011 and had 70% of 2Ls finding SAs. 2010 had a horrifying 55%. I noticed that UChi and Columbia both had much higher numbers for this statistic, which I guess is unsurprising since they're ranked higher. I was just worried if this was something you guys are worried about, something you considered when making your decision, if these numbers are misleading in some way (PI stuff, maybe?).

Basically, I really like NYU, but I also really like not being bankrupt, so I'm looking for some reassurance here, haha. I would particularly be interested in hearing from people who had the choice between NYU and UChi (which I don't bc UChi hates me, lol, or NYU and CLS), but any info from anyone, no matter how anecdotal, would be helpful. Thanks!

2010 is not a great year to look at for any sort of precedent. To give full disclosure, though, it may indicate that NYU did not do a great job preparing students for the awful legal climate at the time. I can't speculate since I wasn't a student then.

Looking at recent data (2010 and 2011 Summer info), NYU is doing admirably. I think that if you want Big Law, NYU and CLS are fungible to certain extent. There may be particular practice areas that NYU or CLS have an edge over each other in terms of education, but even those may be a wash since legal employment do not truly capitalize on such differences (usually). I chose NYU over Chicago (and I am a 1L, lol...) because I felt comfortable here. I admit I probably sacrificed some safety regarding NYC Big Law since Chicago graduates will be a more valuable commodity to the largest legal employment city in the United States. That aside, being able to actually travel to Simpson Thacher or Latham Watkins for 1L receptions is a great experience and I think shows the kind of "in" NYU and CLS have with the NY firms.

The employment stats become more relevant based upon the objective value of your transcript (were you a Rhodes scholar, or worked for the SEC, etc.). The lower that is, the more it will affect your outcomes. This, in conjunction with grades, are the only things that matter. There is so much anecdotal evidence from all three schools indicating that firms reach well beyond where outsiders would expect to in respect to depth of a particular class that it really highlights the value of being a "winner" (whatever that means based on the "objective" valuation of who you are/what you have done) and being able to interview well.

ETA: I just had to LOL at Chicago and Columbia performing better in an awful year (2010) because of their rank. Also, NYU/Chicago/Columbia are all, I would hazard a guess, sending similar percentages of students to Big Law. The quality and location of Big Law is a bigger question for you to address. Chicago likely edges out both NYU and Columbia slightly since it has the benefit of having an extremely split class (in terms of the locations they tend to go) and has half or less than half of the students of its "peers."

[snehpets]

2010 is not a great year to look at for any sort of precedent. To give full disclosure, though, it may indicate that NYU did not do a great job preparing students for the awful legal climate at the time. I can't speculate since I wasn't a student then.

Looking at recent data (2010 and 2011 Summer info), NYU is doing admirably. I think that if you want Big Law, NYU and CLS are fungible to certain extent. There may be particular practice areas that NYU or CLS have an edge over each other in terms of education, but even those may be a wash since legal employment do not truly capitalize on such differences (usually). I chose NYU over Chicago (and I am a 1L, lol...) because I felt comfortable here. I admit I probably sacrificed some safety regarding NYC Big Law since Chicago graduates will be a more valuable commodity to the largest legal employment city in the United States. That aside, being able to actually travel to Simpson Thacher or Latham Watkins for 1L receptions is a great experience and I think shows the kind of "in" NYU and CLS have with the NY firms.

The employment stats become more relevant based upon the objective value of your transcript (were you a Rhodes scholar, or worked for the SEC, etc.). The lower that is, the more it will affect your outcomes. This, in conjunction with grades, are the only things that matter. There is so much anecdotal evidence from all three schools indicating that firms reach well beyond where outsiders would expect to in respect to depth of a particular class that it really highlights the value of being a "winner" (whatever that means based on the "objective" valuation of who you are/what you have done) and being able to interview well.

Thanks! I haven't really done anything I'm a K-JD...

[booboo]

2010 is not a great year to look at for any sort of precedent. To give full disclosure, though, it may indicate that NYU did not do a great job preparing students for the awful legal climate at the time. I can't speculate since I wasn't a student then.

Looking at recent data (2010 and 2011 Summer info), NYU is doing admirably. I think that if you want Big Law, NYU and CLS are fungible to certain extent. There may be particular practice areas that NYU or CLS have an edge over each other in terms of education, but even those may be a wash since legal employment do not truly capitalize on such differences (usually). I chose NYU over Chicago (and I am a 1L, lol...) because I felt comfortable here. I admit I probably sacrificed some safety regarding NYC Big Law since Chicago graduates will be a more valuable commodity to the largest legal employment city in the United States. That aside, being able to actually travel to Simpson Thacher or Latham Watkins for 1L receptions is a great experience and I think shows the kind of "in" NYU and CLS have with the NY firms.

The employment stats become more relevant based upon the objective value of your transcript (were you a Rhodes scholar, or worked for the SEC, etc.). The lower that is, the more it will affect your outcomes. This, in conjunction with grades, are the only things that matter. There is so much anecdotal evidence from all three schools indicating that firms reach well beyond where outsiders would expect to in respect to depth of a particular class that it really highlights the value of being a "winner" (whatever that means based on the "objective" valuation of who you are/what you have done) and being able to interview well.

Thanks! I haven't really done anything I'm a K-JD...

Then make a decision on risk aversion, quality of life considerations, and where you feel you have a better chance to succeed. All I can say about NYU is that I love being here, I had that gut feeling at ASW that it would be so, and thus I think it has helped me want to do as well as I can in law school.

ETA: I also did not cure cancer (and by my hyperbolic statement, I mean I am not special like some of the previous examples I used). OCS was pretty blunt with me; I had to do well to increase my security in getting a Big Law position. You will also have to work harder at getting a "quality" 1L position (whether it be in sending in more apps, being aggressive, being prepared for interviews, etc.) because of the lack of gravitas from your resume (at least in comparison to the people who did spend some time trying to cure cancer).

[snehpets]

Then make a decision on risk aversion, quality of life considerations, and where you feel you have a better chance to succeed. All I can say about NYU is that I love being here, I had that gut feeling at ASW that it would be so, and thus I think it has helped me want to do as well as I can in law school.

Yeah, this is why I'm torn. I feel like I'd be much happier at NYU (am visiting both next month) but I also don't want to trade 3 years of happiness for 40 of crushing debt I can't pay off or whatever, haha.

[booboo]

Then make a decision on risk aversion, quality of life considerations, and where you feel you have a better chance to succeed. All I can say about NYU is that I love being here, I had that gut feeling at ASW that it would be so, and thus I think it has helped me want to do as well as I can in law school.

Yeah, this is why I'm torn. I feel like I'd be much happier at NYU (am visiting both next month) but I also don't want to trade 3 years of happiness for 40 of crushing debt I can't pay off or whatever, haha.

Well it depends on whether that happiness has some sort of conversion to how you are going to perform, grade wise. NYU and Chicago may have (literally) diametric approaches to law school schedules. I think Chicago back loads all of the exams so you take 2, 3, and then 4 exams at the end of each quarter. Also, LRW is graded. NYU Has three exams in the fall and three in the spring, and LRW ends about a month early along with being P/F.

I think trying to quantify the small difference in employment prospects is going to be a difficult, if not impossible. Just make a general judgment on what you think the right choice is based on an intuitive feeling, if that is what it comes down to. When you are in law school, you will get the feeling this is how Judges decide cases as well. Lol.

[snehpets]

Then make a decision on risk aversion, quality of life considerations, and where you feel you have a better chance to succeed. All I can say about NYU is that I love being here, I had that gut feeling at ASW that it would be so, and thus I think it has helped me want to do as well as I can in law school.

Yeah, this is why I'm torn. I feel like I'd be much happier at NYU (am visiting both next month) but I also don't want to trade 3 years of happiness for 40 of crushing debt I can't pay off or whatever, haha.

Well it depends on whether that happiness has some sort of conversion to how you are going to perform, grade wise. NYU and Chicago may have (literally) diametric approaches to law school schedules. I think Chicago back loads all of the exams so you take 2, 3, and then 4 exams at the end of each quarter. Also, LRW is graded. NYU Has three exams in the fall and three in the spring, and LRW ends about a month early along with being P/F.

I think trying to quantify the small difference in employment prospects is going to be a difficult, if not impossible. Just make a general judgment on what you think the right choice is based on an intuitive feeling, if that is what it comes down to. When you are in law school, you will get the feeling this is how Judges decide cases as well.
Lol.

Can't go to Chicago either way, haha, I'm WLed. I'm picking between CLS and NYU. Thanks for all of your help, this was really useful!

[booboo]

Then make a decision on risk aversion, quality of life considerations, and where you feel you have a better chance to succeed. All I can say about NYU is that I love being here, I had that gut feeling at ASW that it would be so, and thus I think it has helped me want to do as well as I can in law school.

Yeah, this is why I'm torn. I feel like I'd be much happier at NYU (am visiting both next month) but I also don't want to trade 3 years of happiness for 40 of crushing debt I can't pay off or whatever, haha.

Well it depends on whether that happiness has some sort of conversion to how you are going to perform, grade wise. NYU and Chicago may have (literally) diametric approaches to law school schedules. I think Chicago back loads all of the exams so you take 2, 3, and then 4 exams at the end of each quarter. Also, LRW is graded. NYU Has three exams in the fall and three in the spring, and LRW ends about a month early along with being P/F.

I think trying to quantify the small difference in employment prospects is going to be a difficult, if not impossible. Just make a general judgment on what you think the right choice is based on an intuitive feeling, if that is what it comes down to. When you are in law school, you will get the feeling this is how Judges decide cases as well.
Lol.

Can't go to Chicago either way, haha, I'm WLed. I'm picking between CLS and NYU. Thanks for all of your help, this was really useful!

Haha! No problem. FWIW, CLS and NYU have similar 1L scheduling approaches (at least in comparison to Chicago). Comparing CLS and NYU for job prospects seems futile. If you look at the 2012 thread in this sub-forum, you can see pretty much equal performance within bands of the V10, with some firms having particular preferences (and some schools students have particular preferences).

[lsatcrazy]

According to the website (http://www.law.nyu.edu/careerservices/e ... /index.htm), <3% of grads work in the midwest. Is this a result of self-selection, making it ridiculously easy to find a job in Chicago (since you competing with ~12 others) or is there something else at play? Do Chicago firms come for OCI despite the tiny %?

[birdlaw117]

According to the website (http://www.law.nyu.edu/careerservices/e ... /index.htm), <3% of grads work in the midwest. Is this a result of self-selection, making it ridiculously easy to find a job in Chicago (since you competing with ~12 others) or is there something else at play? Do Chicago firms come for OCI despite the tiny %?

Combination of self selection and NYU probably not having quite the placing power that certainly Chicago, probably Michigan, and to some degree Northwestern have in Chicago. NYU students (and CLS students since you posted this question there as well) generally want to stay in NYC.

[lsatcrazy]

According to the website (http://www.law.nyu.edu/careerservices/e ... /index.htm), <3% of grads work in the midwest. Is this a result of self-selection, making it ridiculously easy to find a job in Chicago (since you competing with ~12 others) or is there something else at play? Do Chicago firms come for OCI despite the tiny %?

Combination of self selection and NYU probably not having quite the placing power that certainly Chicago, probably Michigan, and to some degree Northwestern have in Chicago. NYU students (and CLS students since you posted this question there as well) generally want to stay in NYC.

I guess this is more a question for a 2L, and I'll definitely ask at ASW, but does that translate into little/no competition for Chicago SAs? Some people in Chicago-related threads have suggested that the low % of Uchi students gunning for NY (~25%, or 50 people) made it easier to land a NY SA than the ~700 coming from NYU/Columbia. Using that logic, it just seems like the reverse should be true for NYU/CLS-->Chicago, and if the 3% figure is accurate, that is ridiculously little competition...

[birdlaw117]

According to the website (http://www.law.nyu.edu/careerservices/e ... /index.htm), <3% of grads work in the midwest. Is this a result of self-selection, making it ridiculously easy to find a job in Chicago (since you competing with ~12 others) or is there something else at play? Do Chicago firms come for OCI despite the tiny %?

Combination of self selection and NYU probably not having quite the placing power that certainly Chicago, probably Michigan, and to some degree Northwestern have in Chicago. NYU students (and CLS students since you posted this question there as well) generally want to stay in NYC.

I guess this is more a question for a 2L, and I'll definitely ask at ASW, but does that translate into little/no competition for Chicago SAs? Some people in Chicago-related threads have suggested that the low % of Uchi students gunning for NY (~25%, or 50 people) made it easier to land a NY SA than the ~700 coming from NYU/Columbia. Using that logic, it just seems like the reverse should be true for NYU/CLS-->Chicago, and if the 3% figure is accurate, that is ridiculously little competition...

3% could also suggest, due to how low it is, that there isn't that effect going from NYU/CLS to Chicago. Also, remember that 3% of NYU/CLS is a lot more students than 3% at Chicago. Plus, there are a lot fewer jobs in Chicago compared to NYC. I don't really know how all of that works out when balanced against one another, but they are all in play.

[dixiecupdrinking]

2L here, chose NYU over Chicago and CLS. The nutshell version: I went in wavering between public interest and firm work, which disqualified Chicago, which has in some recent years placed practically no people in public interest jobs. Also, I was already living in NYC and didn't want to move to Chicago when I had equally good options here. Between NYU and CLS, I felt that NYU's student body was a bit more similar to me and I felt a bit better about their institutional focus. It was a comfort thing (and I wanted to be encouraged to do PI). The trade-off mainly came down to prestige and perhaps a marginal, mostly theoretical job placement advantage. I think if I had to go back and make the decision again, 7 out of 10 times I'd still go to NYU. But it was a close call and I think things would have been fine either way.

As to placement: this is anecdotal, but I only personally know a handful of people who were trying to get biglaw jobs outside of NYC. They mainly were able to (in the Midwest and South, mainly). Remember, though, that Chicago is a tough nut to crack for anybody and there aren't any other Midwestern markets even close to the same size, so given self-selection and the sheer scarcity of jobs available, 3% shouldn't be all that surprising.

Anyone with any other questions about this, feel free to PM me.

[teabreeze]

I was wondering if anybody here is subletting their apartment for the summer- late may to late August.
Or if anyone knows of housing resources, help would be appreciated

[djaja]

Just want to add that NYU's PI bent is real. Our public interest office is insanely tricked out with resources. I went in to the office last semester with a general idea of what I want to do And I came away with lists of alumni contacts in specific sections and divisions of USAOs, PD offices, DoJ and the Hill. All the alums were great about answering questions and getting my app into the interview pile, several of which led to offers which I am considering now. Maybe its b/c I went to a crappy SUNY school for undergrad w/ no discernable alumni network, but this experience blew me away. I think like 20% of the 2011 class did PI after graduating, maybe more if you count clerkships.

[chasgoose]

Then make a decision on risk aversion, quality of life considerations, and where you feel you have a better chance to succeed. All I can say about NYU is that I love being here, I had that gut feeling at ASW that it would be so, and thus I think it has helped me want to do as well as I can in law school.

Yeah, this is why I'm torn. I feel like I'd be much happier at NYU (am visiting both next month) but I also don't want to trade 3 years of happiness for 40 of crushing debt I can't pay off or whatever, haha.

I made the same choice as you last year and I have to say that choosing NYU over CLS is going to have a negligible effect on your ability to get a job. Similarly ranked students from both are going to have similar options. If you get a gut feeling that you will enjoy going to NYU more, that is probably the right choice. If you don't like where you are going to law school, you will probably do worse than you would at a place where you "fit" better and doing better at one over the other would make far more of a difference than which school you are at.

I will also say that NYU's PI spiel is real and I have been very glad to have such a robust PI career office to help me during my 1L job search. Even though I hope I will get a non-PI job this summer, it's been nice to have PILC as a resource and feel that they can help me if my first choices don't work out. Also, just having all the PI opportunities shoved in your face everyday is comforting because I would have had no idea where to start looking. I think CLS has a decent PI office, but you have to seek it out and its much less organized so my friends there are much more stressed out now that they are starting to turn to PI jobs. Additionally, the NYU guaranteed PI summer grant is bigger than CLS's and it's already pretty small at $4500. The only thing that might be better about PI at CLS is that their meager PI grant does cover judicial externships while NYU's doesn't. I don't understand why NYU won't cover them, but it seems like a pretty valuable source of jobs that most people don't even look at here because they want to get the PI funding.

The above comments aside, the differences between the two are fairly minimal. There is a more laid-back and diverse atmosphere here because not everyone wants to go into Biglaw the way that almost everyone at CLS does, but you would be hard pressed to notice a difference. Ultimately when I chose I chose for two reasons. First, I got a better gut-feeling when visiting, the laid-back atmosphere and the dynamic administrative attitude both appealed to me over the impression I got of CLS. Most importantly, however, NYU gave me more money in the end than CLS did. For most people the decision will (and should) come down to that. They are so similar that it would be silly to go to one over the other if one were cheaper. I know a lot of people here for that reason, and similarly I know people at CLS because they gave them more money. Typically NYU will give more money than CLS (to a certain extent, CLS assumes that most students will choose them over NYU) but it has been known to happen the other way around. Make sure that you get your FAFSA/Need Access forms into both as soon as possible so that they can consider you for scholarship money in the first round.

[Tadatsune]

Can anyone comment on Career Services at NYU?

[dixiecupdrinking]

A 2L perspective here. OCS has actually been fantastic in my experience. Very helpful sorting out realistic bidding strategies for EIW, advice about what internships to go for, etc. Things have worked out well for me so maybe I am biased; someone who had less success might feel differently, I don't know, but in my experience people generally seem to agree they go above and beyond (in contrast to the stereotypical law school career services office).

PILC is another can of worms; generally helpful but a bit overzealous at times, and frankly they made me feel uncomfortable a couple of times for not having drank the public interest Kool-Aid. But they have the resources and the network if you want to do public interest work, and I understand that to be extraordinarily useful. Dunno, only really interacted with them 1L year.

Any specific questions about it?