UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
mrclean17
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby mrclean17 » Thu Feb 04, 2016 2:46 pm

WheninLaw wrote:
mrclean17 wrote:My question: I have a tuition fee waiver, and I'm deciding on UC Irvine or UCH. I think based on LSAT/GPA that I would be towards the top quarter of my class at UCH, but toward the bottom half of the class at UCI.


Don't want to shit up this thread, but yikes.



I know UCH used to be pretty prestigious, but as someone who's looking to go to law school it honestly doesn't compare to other UCs anymore. I pretty much saw it as UCLA/Berkeley --> UCI/Davis --> UCH

I'm honestly only considering UCH because no tuition, and because a friend offered to let me live with him for 400/month and I don't think I'll get another shot at living in SF without paying 3 or 4 times that in rent

WheninLaw
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby WheninLaw » Thu Feb 04, 2016 2:50 pm

mrclean17 wrote:
WheninLaw wrote:
mrclean17 wrote:My question: I have a tuition fee waiver, and I'm deciding on UC Irvine or UCH. I think based on LSAT/GPA that I would be towards the top quarter of my class at UCH, but toward the bottom half of the class at UCI.


Don't want to shit up this thread, but yikes.



I know UCH used to be pretty prestigious, but as someone who's looking to go to law school it honestly doesn't compare to other UCs anymore. I pretty much saw it as UCLA/Berkeley --> UCI/Davis --> UCH

I'm honestly only considering UCH because no tuition, and because a friend offered to let me live with him for 400/month and I don't think I'll get another shot at living in SF without paying 3 or 4 times that in rent


My "yikes" was directed toward your assumption that your LSAT/GPA would put you in the top 25% at UCH, let alone anywhere. That is a dangerous (and likely incorrect) assumption to make.

mrclean17
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby mrclean17 » Thu Feb 04, 2016 2:54 pm

Oh shit, my bad. I didn't mean to imply that I would place there after 1L grades or anything, that was just how I stacked up compared to the rest of the students simply based on the reported LSAT and GPA numbers. I know that those numbers don't necessarily imply class standing, but they're the only way I can currently compare myself to others

SFSpartan
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby SFSpartan » Thu Feb 04, 2016 3:10 pm

mrclean17 wrote:Oh shit, my bad. I didn't mean to imply that I would place there after 1L grades or anything, that was just how I stacked up compared to the rest of the students simply based on the reported LSAT and GPA numbers. I know that those numbers don't necessarily imply class standing, but they're the only way I can currently compare myself to others


How you compare to others is really going to be a non-factor w/r/t how you perform as a 1L, which is all that matters. Assume you will be median, compare costs with expected outcomes and goals, and decide based on that.

mrclean17
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby mrclean17 » Thu Feb 04, 2016 3:15 pm

SFSpartan wrote:
mrclean17 wrote:Oh shit, my bad. I didn't mean to imply that I would place there after 1L grades or anything, that was just how I stacked up compared to the rest of the students simply based on the reported LSAT and GPA numbers. I know that those numbers don't necessarily imply class standing, but they're the only way I can currently compare myself to others


How you compare to others is really going to be a non-factor w/r/t how you perform as a 1L, which is all that matters. Assume you will be median, compare costs with expected outcomes and goals, and decide based on that.


Non-factor? I thought most classes were graded on a bell curve?

SFSpartan
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby SFSpartan » Thu Feb 04, 2016 3:47 pm

mrclean17 wrote:
SFSpartan wrote:
mrclean17 wrote:Oh shit, my bad. I didn't mean to imply that I would place there after 1L grades or anything, that was just how I stacked up compared to the rest of the students simply based on the reported LSAT and GPA numbers. I know that those numbers don't necessarily imply class standing, but they're the only way I can currently compare myself to others


How you compare to others is really going to be a non-factor w/r/t how you perform as a 1L, which is all that matters. Assume you will be median, compare costs with expected outcomes and goals, and decide based on that.


Non-factor? I thought most classes were graded on a bell curve?


They are, but your numbers coming in have nothing to do with where you will end up on that bell curve. Accordingly, how your numbers compare to other UCH students coming in has nothing to do with where you end up.

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General_Tso
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby General_Tso » Thu Feb 04, 2016 5:15 pm

I'd go with Irvine or Davis. If I'm in a hiring position 3-4 years from now, I likely won't be hiring new Hastings grads. Older attorneys may not follow admissions trends as closely but I still would bank on Hastings' employment outcomes to worsen over time.

hiima3L
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby hiima3L » Thu Feb 18, 2016 7:24 pm

General_Tso wrote:I'd go with Irvine or Davis. If I'm in a hiring position 3-4 years from now, I likely won't be hiring new Hastings grads. Older attorneys may not follow admissions trends as closely but I still would bank on Hastings' employment outcomes to worsen over time.


I would also suggest UCI or UCD, especially since the poster doesn't care where he/she will end up. UCI and UCD seem to be relative equals in terms of job outcomes and bar pass rates (I think). I would pick UCD, but that's entirely because I think Davis >>>>>>>>> Irvine in every possible way. SF is also just so god damn expensive now that it's hard to justify living there, and UCH doesn't place well anywhere, but especially outside of the Bay. Lastly, UCD students place well in Sacto, which is a very underrated city IMO.

I wouldn't go so far as to say I wouldn't be hiring new UCH grads, but I certainly would be way more selective than I had been just a couple years ago. The incoming stats and bar rates are truly horrific. However, I had a really, really fantastic UCH intern last summer...who happens to be at the top of the class.

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General_Tso
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby General_Tso » Fri Mar 04, 2016 6:14 pm

See below for an "interesting" take on Hastings' student body by Professor Boswell

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General_Tso
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby General_Tso » Fri Mar 04, 2016 6:14 pm

Image

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a male human
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby a male human » Fri Mar 04, 2016 6:22 pm

"Also, this isn't a business model." :wink: :wink:

Orion311
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby Orion311 » Sun Mar 20, 2016 12:41 am

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Last edited by Orion311 on Sun Aug 28, 2016 6:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

NorCalLaw
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby NorCalLaw » Fri Apr 15, 2016 7:49 pm

Apparently, Professor Roger Park, the famed UC Hastings Evidence teacher, was/is being forced out mid-semester. Lots of controversy and whispers surrounding this whole thing--he was getting pretty frail, but at 74 this feels like some reverse 65-club nonsense.

Anyone have the full scoop on what happened?

Bender7
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby Bender7 » Fri Jun 10, 2016 1:14 am

this school is going down hill

BottomOfTotem
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby BottomOfTotem » Tue Jun 14, 2016 2:46 am

Question for recent grads: how has the job seeking gone? It seems, from perusing the thread, that in years past, to get into BigLaw, you needed to place in the top 20% to have a chance. Is this still the case? I ask because, although the economy has recovered and UCH's ranking has climbed somewhat, the job #s on the 509 still seem low.

Also how have your educational credentials been received? As in, is UC Hastings still viewed in decently high esteem by Bay Area practitioners? This last question can be in regards to all realms of practice and firm size.

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lordmac69
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby lordmac69 » Tue Jun 14, 2016 6:16 pm

Bump

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a male human
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby a male human » Tue Jun 14, 2016 6:21 pm

BottomOfTotem wrote:Question for recent grads: how has the job seeking gone? It seems, from perusing the thread, that in years past, to get into BigLaw, you needed to place in the top 20% to have a chance. Is this still the case? I ask because, although the economy has recovered and UCH's ranking has climbed somewhat, the job #s on the 509 still seem low.

Also how have your educational credentials been received? As in, is UC Hastings still viewed in decently high esteem by Bay Area practitioners? This last question can be in regards to all realms of practice and firm size.

2013 grad here.

I don't know anyone from my class who has passed the bar who doesn't have a respectable job by now (not working random hourly jobs or doc review). Some of us had to work lower-end or part-time jobs, but everyone eventually found something good. This was back when we were ranked 45-50.

I'm in SoCal, and people know the name Hastings. I see it as a local school, though. Bay Area practitioners will know of it and respect the name. Obviously not as prestigious as Boalt or Stanford, but in an environment where Golden Gate people get hired, there's no excuse as a Hastings grad.

I can't say the same for 2014-15 grads, though. As you may know, our ranking is now 59 or so.

The one thing Hastings will teach you is how to figure shit out on your own. Don't just sit there waiting to be spoon fed. Those who figure it out will get ahead of those who don't take action.

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General_Tso
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby General_Tso » Wed Jun 15, 2016 4:52 pm

2012 grad here. Unfortunately I do know (and know of) many people from my class who are still not doing anything with their JD despite passing the bar.

That said, for those of us with 2-4 years of experience, interviews are fairly easily had. This is especially true if you specialize in corporate/ip/employment, which are all in high demand in the SF area. Litigation hiring is less robust but interviews are still somewhat easy to get.

Some of the partners I have interviewed with have remarked that it is difficult finding 2-4 year associate laterals, because so many members of the classes of 2010-2014 never acquired any substantive experience. If you got your foot in the door early after graduation, you will have good options.

BottomOfTotem
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby BottomOfTotem » Fri Jun 24, 2016 11:24 pm

Thanks to you both.

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General_Tso
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby General_Tso » Mon Dec 05, 2016 4:15 pm

July 2016 bar pass rate 51%

#ThirdTierToilet

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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby a male human » Mon Dec 05, 2016 4:20 pm

General_Tso wrote:July 2016 bar pass rate 51%

#ThirdTierToilet

I'm reading this email right now

My live reaction:

[+] Spoiler
Image


UC Hastings will pay for a subscription to the supplemental MBE preparation service Adaptibar.com or the essay scoring bank BarEssays.com for all of our graduates who did not pass the July 2016 California Bar exam.


Well, that's a good start at least. Good to see them finally doing something about their laissez-faire approach but there's still a fundamental problem: Of course, no one's gonna take the time to teach them HOW TO pass the fucking bar. It's all WHAT to study. Very frustrating to see and why I spent a year putting together a self-study guide.

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General_Tso
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby General_Tso » Mon Dec 05, 2016 4:43 pm

can you post the entire email human? i'm not on the email list anymore after changing firms

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General_Tso
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby General_Tso » Mon Dec 05, 2016 4:45 pm

I will say though, some of the bar courses at Hastings are fantastic. Jo Carillo is a phenomenal professor of community property. i remembered that subject so well from her class that I was able to answer a bar essay without having done any bar study for CP

they need to cut the semesters abroad in Barcelona and send these kids through Prof. Carillo boot camp

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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby a male human » Mon Dec 05, 2016 4:47 pm

General_Tso wrote:can you post the entire email human? i'm not on the email list anymore after changing firms


[+] Spoiler
Dear UC Hastings Community:

I write with profoundly disappointing news. Late on Friday I received a letter from the California State Bar that reported that UC Hastings’ July 2016 first-time pass-rate was 51%. This is a horrific result.

Last year, in my very first message to the greater UC Hastings community, I stated that my first priority as Acting Dean would be bar passage. In both 2014 and 2015 we fell below 70%, with the 2015 rate actually falling about a half a percentage point below the State average for ABA-accredited schools for the first time in the school’s history. This, I said, was unacceptable. This year, we fell 11 points below the state average. Needless to say, 51% takes unacceptability beyond the pale.

In response to our declining bar performance, one of my very first acts in office was to call for a faculty retreat to focus entirely on what was to be done regarding the bar. We held that retreat in April. After discussion at the retreat and other work done by the administration, several changes were immediately implemented. Foremost, and in concert with the recommendation of the previous administration, I ordered a reorganization of the several departments that supplement the core academic program and that directly or indirectly support bar success. These departments – academic support, bar passage support, LEOP, and Legal Writing & Research and Moot Court – were consolidated and placed under the supervision and leadership of the Associate Dean for Academic and Professional Success. Morris Ratner assumed that position on July 1 this year. In coordination with a broad spectrum of faculty and staff, Dean Ratner has already done yeoman work, both in evaluating past reform efforts – which our research had already indicated had done little to improve bar performance – and in encouraging and developing state-of-the-art initiatives to turn the tide. Many of these are based on programs proven to be effective at other law schools.

These efforts, and many more that we are currently engaged in developing, will make a difference. It is, however, an inevitable consequence of such efforts that their payoff can only be effective (and their effectiveness assessed) in time. Going forward, I can attest that we as an institution are fully committed to our students’ professional success. Success begins with a passing score on the bar exam.

I am personally and professionally embarrassed by our bar performance. Indeed, I apologize to our graduates on behalf of myself and the institution. I promise to do everything within my power to support those in the class of 2016 who must retake the bar. We will offer both tangible financial support and study group and faculty mentor support. Specifically, UC Hastings will pay for a subscription to the supplemental MBE preparation service Adaptibar.com or the essay scoring bank BarEssays.com for all of our graduates who did not pass the July 2016 California Bar exam. In addition, following this message, Dean Ratner will send our 2016 graduates an email detailing the many other programs that we have developed to support our graduates who must take the February 2017 bar, including a faculty mentor program and on-campus study and group sessions.

As an aside, let me express my utter incredulity with the conduct of the Committee of Bar Examiners of the State Bar of California. The pass-rate for first-time takers of ABA accredited California law schools was 62%. In comparison, New York’s bar-pass rate was 83%. The California Bar is effectively saying that 38% of graduates from ABA accredited law schools are not qualified to practice law. This is outrageous and constitutes unconscionable conduct on the part of a trade association that masquerades as a state agency.

However shameful the State Bar’s conduct, it does not relieve us of our obligation to fully prepare our students to pass the bar exam. The state average was indefensibly low, yet our rate was 11 points below the state average for accredited schools. Our comparatively poor performance demonstrates that we need to continue to take bold action to improve our graduates’ outcomes. Without question, the job of a law school is to prepare our students to be excellent attorneys. This we do well. UC Hastings is a national leader in legal scholarship and education. Our classroom professors are second to none and we have one of the very best clinical programs in the nation. And UC Hastings has always been, and will continue to be, dedicated to working for the public good.

Yet one cannot be a lawyer if one does not pass the basic certification exam. As a law school, we are obligated to ensure that our graduates have the tools necessary to overcome this threshold hurdle and are prepared for their careers in the legal profession.

Let me take the liberty of quoting the inspirational words of Vince Lombardi: “It’s not whether you get knocked down, it’s whether you get up.” Quite frankly, when I read the California Bar’s letter, I felt punched in the gut; I got knocked down. But I am up now and ready to fight. I am committed to UC Hastings, past, present, and especially future.

I will conclude with one more quote, this one from that other great coach, Abraham Lincoln: “Always bear in mind that your own resolution to succeed is more important than any other one thing.”

I am resolved to UC Hastings’ success!

With Best Wishes,

David Faigman


General_Tso wrote:I will say though, some of the bar courses at Hastings are fantastic. Jo Carillo is a phenomenal professor of community property. i remembered that subject so well from her class that I was able to answer a bar essay without having done any bar study for CP

they need to cut the semesters abroad in Barcelona and send these kids through Prof. Carillo boot camp

Guess I should have taken her course. CP was my worst subject.

The only thing I got out of Hastings that was of value was the negotiations course. Practical and useful in the real world. I was one person away from the top spot in the class too, but she deserved the A+.

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General_Tso
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby General_Tso » Mon Dec 05, 2016 5:02 pm

surprising to see him go after the board of bar examiners. i dont think the bar exam format or grading has changed, but student quality is way down. if you are Hastings and admitting students with 3.5/154, it should not come as a surprise when your pass rates resemble the lower tier schools that used to attract that caliber of student




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