UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
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ilovesf
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby ilovesf » Thu Oct 29, 2015 4:58 pm

a male human wrote:Interesting, particularly the part about not making a connection to Hastings. Sometimes I wish I'd gone to Davis because it has a variety of schools on campus, just seems more lively and higher ranked.

Meh. I'm from SF and have family and friends here, so I didn't really care about having a "community" at school and I didn't want to be around undergrads. It wasn't a negative to me. It just makes me not want to donate, so maybe it is a negative to them.

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Mick Haller
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby Mick Haller » Fri Oct 30, 2015 12:51 pm

I'm not planning to donate to any school for at least another 5-10 years. My undergrad was generous with scholarship money so I plan to donate to them first. Hastings is stingy and crappy and won't get a penny. I don't care that it is sinking in the rankings, in my opinion the school should be closed.

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a male human
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby a male human » Fri Oct 30, 2015 1:00 pm

Mick Haller wrote:I'm not planning to donate to any school for at least another 5-10 years. My undergrad was generous with scholarship money so I plan to donate to them first. Hastings is stingy and crappy and won't get a penny. I don't care that it is sinking in the rankings, in my opinion the school should be closed.

Wouldn't you want the reputation of Hastings to go up so your resume will look better in the future?

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Mick Haller
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby Mick Haller » Fri Oct 30, 2015 1:00 pm

It is not clear to me how donations = USNWR rankings anyway. Hastings stinks because it isn't placing students in the job market. That isn't going to change with alumni donations.

Shiny new buildings are not going to entice 165+ LSATs. If this is what they think of prospective law students, then they fail to recognize how savvy we have become as consumers. From now on it will always be a function of (1) career prospects, (2) cost of attendance.

FWIW my undergrad's law school sold a new building on promises of climbing in the USNWR rankings, and it has not moved up at all in the last 5+ years.

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a male human
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby a male human » Fri Oct 30, 2015 1:10 pm

I always thought money would go toward enticing students with scholarships, but I agree it's not very clear how donations will help.

For example: "With your support, our alma mater can regain its status among the top law schools in the nation. Without your financial support, we cannot do many of the things that will help improve our rankings and bar passage results."

I can only assume better students = better bar passage = better rankings?

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Mick Haller
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby Mick Haller » Fri Oct 30, 2015 1:10 pm

The firm of the "senior partner at the top-200 law firm" has hired precisely 3 Hastings grads since 2010. They have approximately 30 associates in their SF office. Therein lies the problem, much more so than the school's funding.

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Mick Haller
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby Mick Haller » Fri Oct 30, 2015 1:13 pm

a male human wrote:I always thought money would go toward enticing students with scholarships, but I agree it's not very clear how donations will help.

For example: "With your support, our alma mater can regain its status among the top law schools in the nation. Without your financial support, we cannot do many of the things that will help improve our rankings and bar passage results."

I can only assume better students = better bar passage = better rankings?


Scholarship money only goes so far though. Loyola and San Diego have been shelling out tremendous scholarship offers for a very long time now. The money seldom entices people with high LSATs to attend those two schools, because they place only 2-4% of their classes in big firms. Loyola and USD have never moved beyond the 50-60 range, and are probably much lower than that now that USNWR factors employment stats into the equation.

hiima3L
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby hiima3L » Fri Oct 30, 2015 7:54 pm

I didn't get any donation email the other day. Not sure why. I seem to get some solicitation from them every month or so.

As for donations, I don't have money to give, but if I did, I wouldn't donate to the school's general fund. I'd only donate to my journal and competition teams. Even then, I don't know if I would because I loathe some people whose salaries my donation certainly would partially fund.

In other news, I was talking to a senior-aged lady yesterday who was "so impressed" that I went to UCH because it meant I "must be really smart" because her husband went there and he and all his classmates "went on to do great things." I wonder how many years it will take before UCH's reputation is totally gone. Everyone I've met from California who is 40+ years old seems to think it's a fantastic school.

Also, my boss recently reached out to a UCH prof for a 1L he/she recommends for an internship. The application we got was so bad we won't even consider this person--for an internship where interns do next to nothing.

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a male human
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby a male human » Fri Oct 30, 2015 8:03 pm

hiima3L wrote:I didn't get any donation email the other day. Not sure why. I seem to get some solicitation from them every month or so.

As for donations, I don't have money to give, but if I did, I wouldn't donate to the school's general fund. I'd only donate to my journal and competition teams. Even then, I don't know if I would because I loathe some people whose salaries my donation certainly would partially fund.

In other news, I was talking to a senior-aged lady yesterday who was "so impressed" that I went to UCH because it meant I "must be really smart" because her husband went there and he and all his classmates "went on to do great things." I wonder how many years it will take before UCH's reputation is totally gone. Everyone I've met from California who is 40+ years old seems to think it's a fantastic school.

Also, my boss recently reached out to a UCH prof for a 1L he/she recommends for an internship. The application we got was so bad we won't even consider this person--for an internship where interns do next to nothing.

That's so terrible it's funny. A 1L who was recommended by virtue of good grades (or personable nature) by a respected professor was not even considered for an internship... In other words, a top performer at Hastings these days is a bum in a real setting. I don't want to check the admit stats right now because it would be too spooky for Halloween.

I guess this is why we need scholarships to trick good students into Hastings and make its reputation good again? Higher admit stats and academically better performing students going out there to do great things once more.

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Calbears123
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby Calbears123 » Fri Oct 30, 2015 8:04 pm

hiima3L wrote:I didn't get any donation email the other day. Not sure why. I seem to get some solicitation from them every month or so.

As for donations, I don't have money to give, but if I did, I wouldn't donate to the school's general fund. I'd only donate to my journal and competition teams. Even then, I don't know if I would because I loathe some people whose salaries my donation certainly would partially fund.

In other news, I was talking to a senior-aged lady yesterday who was "so impressed" that I went to UCH because it meant I "must be really smart" because her husband went there and he and all his classmates "went on to do great things." I wonder how many years it will take before UCH's reputation is totally gone. Everyone I've met from California who is 40+ years old seems to think it's a fantastic school.

Also, my boss recently reached out to a UCH prof for a 1L he/she recommends for an internship. The application we got was so bad we won't even consider this person--for an internship where interns do next to nothing.


Everyone in CA 45+ also seems to think Golden Gate is a great school. Anyway through family friends I know a prof at Hastings, he told not to go because the students are not as smart anymore.

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ilovesf
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby ilovesf » Fri Oct 30, 2015 8:14 pm

That's pretty terrible, but a 1L professor recommendation actually means nothing about the candidate or their work product. Unless it's a writing teacher, my profs only saw some shitty exam I wrote. I think I only ever spoke to 1 1L prof outside of class.

hiima3L
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby hiima3L » Sat Oct 31, 2015 1:56 pm

a male human wrote:
hiima3L wrote:I didn't get any donation email the other day. Not sure why. I seem to get some solicitation from them every month or so.

As for donations, I don't have money to give, but if I did, I wouldn't donate to the school's general fund. I'd only donate to my journal and competition teams. Even then, I don't know if I would because I loathe some people whose salaries my donation certainly would partially fund.

In other news, I was talking to a senior-aged lady yesterday who was "so impressed" that I went to UCH because it meant I "must be really smart" because her husband went there and he and all his classmates "went on to do great things." I wonder how many years it will take before UCH's reputation is totally gone. Everyone I've met from California who is 40+ years old seems to think it's a fantastic school.

Also, my boss recently reached out to a UCH prof for a 1L he/she recommends for an internship. The application we got was so bad we won't even consider this person--for an internship where interns do next to nothing.

That's so terrible it's funny. A 1L who was recommended by virtue of good grades (or personable nature) by a respected professor was not even considered for an internship... In other words, a top performer at Hastings these days is a bum in a real setting. I don't want to check the admit stats right now because it would be too spooky for Halloween.

I guess this is why we need scholarships to trick good students into Hastings and make its reputation good again? Higher admit stats and academically better performing students going out there to do great things once more.


To be fair, I'm not sure why this prof recommended this student other than he/she did well in the prof's 1L non-LWR class. Grades are mediocre and writing sample (from LWR) was crap. Our office puts a lot of stock into LWR grades and, as ilovesf pointed out, 1L performance isn't always indicative of LWR skills.

hiima3L
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby hiima3L » Sat Oct 31, 2015 1:58 pm

Calbears123 wrote:
hiima3L wrote:I didn't get any donation email the other day. Not sure why. I seem to get some solicitation from them every month or so.

As for donations, I don't have money to give, but if I did, I wouldn't donate to the school's general fund. I'd only donate to my journal and competition teams. Even then, I don't know if I would because I loathe some people whose salaries my donation certainly would partially fund.

In other news, I was talking to a senior-aged lady yesterday who was "so impressed" that I went to UCH because it meant I "must be really smart" because her husband went there and he and all his classmates "went on to do great things." I wonder how many years it will take before UCH's reputation is totally gone. Everyone I've met from California who is 40+ years old seems to think it's a fantastic school.

Also, my boss recently reached out to a UCH prof for a 1L he/she recommends for an internship. The application we got was so bad we won't even consider this person--for an internship where interns do next to nothing.


Everyone in CA 45+ also seems to think Golden Gate is a great school. Anyway through family friends I know a prof at Hastings, he told not to go because the students are not as smart anymore.


I've never heard anyone of any age say a good thing about GGU. My 65yo co-worker tenderly refers to it as "night school," because that's what it used to be for most grads.

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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby a male human » Thu Nov 19, 2015 9:16 pm

Breaking news: Dean Wu is stepping down.

I don't know if there is an article; I got my info from an insider with email screenshots to prove it

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General_Tso
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby General_Tso » Fri Nov 20, 2015 4:19 am

a male human wrote:Breaking news: Dean Wu is stepping down.

I don't know if there is an article; I got my info from an insider with email screenshots to prove it

It's on their Facebook page now. "Facebook official"

SFSpartan
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby SFSpartan » Tue Dec 22, 2015 8:10 pm

General_Tso wrote:
a male human wrote:Breaking news: Dean Wu is stepping down.

I don't know if there is an article; I got my info from an insider with email screenshots to prove it

It's on their Facebook page now. "Facebook official"


New boss at UCH. David Faigman was appointed Dean and Chancellor

hiima3L
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby hiima3L » Wed Dec 23, 2015 3:25 pm

For maybe the first time in its history, UCH's bar passage rate was below the state's average. I remember looking at UCH back in 2008 and its bar pass rates were in the upper 80s. Unbelievable how fast it has tanked, and it's only going to get worse, perhaps dramatically.

http://abovethelaw.com/2015/12/californ ... july-2015/

The school is reaching embarrassingly low stats.

hiima3L
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby hiima3L » Wed Dec 23, 2015 3:26 pm

SFSpartan wrote:
General_Tso wrote:
a male human wrote:Breaking news: Dean Wu is stepping down.

I don't know if there is an article; I got my info from an insider with email screenshots to prove it

It's on their Facebook page now. "Facebook official"


New boss at UCH. David Faigman was appointed Dean and Chancellor


Almost anyone is better than robot-speak Dean Wu, but this is a good pick. I really liked Prof. Faigman in and out of the classroom, though I know the show he kind of puts on in class is off-putting to some people.

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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby OneMoreLawHopeful » Tue Jan 05, 2016 10:53 pm

hiima3L wrote:For maybe the first time in its history, UCH's bar passage rate was below the state's average. I remember looking at UCH back in 2008 and its bar pass rates were in the upper 80s. Unbelievable how fast it has tanked, and it's only going to get worse, perhaps dramatically.

http://abovethelaw.com/2015/12/californ ... july-2015/

The school is reaching embarrassingly low stats.


I just don't understand how this keeps happening. By any reasonable measure, UC Davis should not have any advantages over UCH (I.e. It's not like Davis has access to some secret jobs market to keep stats up...), but their performance on the bar suggests that they are doing something right which UCH is getting wrong.

I have suspicions, but would love to see the school give us an honest breakdown of who's passing and who's failing (not names, but stats, e.g. "People we let in despite a 152 LSAT!") so that we could be sure pressure was being applied in the right way. As it stands it's frustrating as fuck to be an alum and watch the school tank like this.

PS - did anyone else read the email Faigman sent out to alums this morning? It was typically light on substance, but I would love to know if he's serious about it.

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ilovesf
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby ilovesf » Wed Jan 06, 2016 1:55 pm

i delete every UCH email right away

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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby a male human » Wed Jan 06, 2016 3:04 pm

ilovesf wrote:i delete every UCH email right away

Why? I'm curious

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ilovesf
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby ilovesf » Wed Jan 06, 2016 3:05 pm

a male human wrote:
ilovesf wrote:i delete every UCH email right away

Why? I'm curious

I don't care about the school at all and 1/2 of them are about donating money and I am not in a position to do that even if I wanted to

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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby General_Tso » Wed Jan 06, 2016 4:09 pm

There's a lot of inertia in the rankings. UCH slide is exacerbated every admissions cycle by the previous year's rankings drop. Comparatively stable UC Davis has enough seats to accommodate the small set of 3.5/162 crowd looking to overpay for a legal education in 2016. Current generations are too wise about student loans to pay SF cost of living for 3 years for a 1/3 chance at getting a decent job.

UCH is giving more scholarship money now, which is a start, but improving job placement stats is of paramount importance. Unfortunately the bottom half of current Hastings classes (think 3.3/157 now, plus 67% bar pass rate), are looking very unattractive to employers.

hiima3L
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby hiima3L » Wed Jan 06, 2016 6:18 pm

OneMoreLawHopeful wrote:
hiima3L wrote:For maybe the first time in its history, UCH's bar passage rate was below the state's average. I remember looking at UCH back in 2008 and its bar pass rates were in the upper 80s. Unbelievable how fast it has tanked, and it's only going to get worse, perhaps dramatically.

http://abovethelaw.com/2015/12/californ ... july-2015/

The school is reaching embarrassingly low stats.


I just don't understand how this keeps happening. By any reasonable measure, UC Davis should not have any advantages over UCH (I.e. It's not like Davis has access to some secret jobs market to keep stats up...), but their performance on the bar suggests that they are doing something right which UCH is getting wrong.

I have suspicions, but would love to see the school give us an honest breakdown of who's passing and who's failing (not names, but stats, e.g. "People we let in despite a 152 LSAT!") so that we could be sure pressure was being applied in the right way. As it stands it's frustrating as fuck to be an alum and watch the school tank like this.

PS - did anyone else read the email Faigman sent out to alums this morning? It was typically light on substance, but I would love to know if he's serious about it.


It's happening because the average UCH student has much worse LSATs/GPAs than before. As Faigman's email said, the top half at UCH has historically had a 90%+ pass rate. But the only thing that has changed (which, of course, his email failed to mention) is the dramatic decline in admission standards.

I consider that to be the exclusive reason why UCH's bar pass rates have plummeted because there is an abundance of data proving a very, very strong correlation between bar passage rates and entrance statistics. It's not rocket science to figure out why--generally, people with higher LSATs/GPAs are smarter and do better on law school exams and the bar. Bottom of the barrel schools are like 3-year bar prep classes whereas Ivy League schools often focus on useless scholarship, theory, electives, etc. But Ivy Leagues have dramatically better pass rates for the obvious reason that the average Harvard student is dramatically smarter and more equipped to pass the bar than the average UCH student.

As for Davis, I have my suspicions that their employment stats are seriously gamed, but their relatively tiny class size and dominating/focusing on the Sacto market, which wasn't really hit by the recession, probably explains why their employment stats are better. Not sure about their bar pass rates cuz I haven't looked at their admissions standards.

Anyway, the school has now officially reached an embarrassing level. It was teetering above it before, but now that it has bar pass rate below the state average, it's clear to me just how bad it's gotten in only about 5 years. When I was looking at UCH in 08, the bar pass rates were in the high 80s, the school was decently competitive to get into, and it had a good statewide reputation. I emphatically tell people not to go to UCH now.

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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby OneMoreLawHopeful » Wed Jan 06, 2016 7:59 pm

hiima3L wrote:
OneMoreLawHopeful wrote:
hiima3L wrote:For maybe the first time in its history, UCH's bar passage rate was below the state's average. I remember looking at UCH back in 2008 and its bar pass rates were in the upper 80s. Unbelievable how fast it has tanked, and it's only going to get worse, perhaps dramatically.

http://abovethelaw.com/2015/12/californ ... july-2015/

The school is reaching embarrassingly low stats.


I just don't understand how this keeps happening. By any reasonable measure, UC Davis should not have any advantages over UCH (I.e. It's not like Davis has access to some secret jobs market to keep stats up...), but their performance on the bar suggests that they are doing something right which UCH is getting wrong.

I have suspicions, but would love to see the school give us an honest breakdown of who's passing and who's failing (not names, but stats, e.g. "People we let in despite a 152 LSAT!") so that we could be sure pressure was being applied in the right way. As it stands it's frustrating as fuck to be an alum and watch the school tank like this.

PS - did anyone else read the email Faigman sent out to alums this morning? It was typically light on substance, but I would love to know if he's serious about it.


It's happening because the average UCH student has much worse LSATs/GPAs than before. As Faigman's email said, the top half at UCH has historically had a 90%+ pass rate. But the only thing that has changed (which, of course, his email failed to mention) is the dramatic decline in admission standards.

I consider that to be the exclusive reason why UCH's bar pass rates have plummeted because there is an abundance of data proving a very, very strong correlation between bar passage rates and entrance statistics. It's not rocket science to figure out why--generally, people with higher LSATs/GPAs are smarter and do better on law school exams and the bar. Bottom of the barrel schools are like 3-year bar prep classes whereas Ivy League schools often focus on useless scholarship, theory, electives, etc. But Ivy Leagues have dramatically better pass rates for the obvious reason that the average Harvard student is dramatically smarter and more equipped to pass the bar than the average UCH student.

As for Davis, I have my suspicions that their employment stats are seriously gamed, but their relatively tiny class size and dominating/focusing on the Sacto market, which wasn't really hit by the recession, probably explains why their employment stats are better. Not sure about their bar pass rates cuz I haven't looked at their admissions standards.

Anyway, the school has now officially reached an embarrassing level. It was teetering above it before, but now that it has bar pass rate below the state average, it's clear to me just how bad it's gotten in only about 5 years. When I was looking at UCH in 08, the bar pass rates were in the high 80s, the school was decently competitive to get into, and it had a good statewide reputation. I emphatically tell people not to go to UCH now.


I mean, I generally agree with this--but Davis cannot possibly be gaming it's bar pass rates (my understanding is that it's impossible to game those). According to LST, Davis' admission stats tanked until 2014, when they began to rebound. But to me, that's the real kicker--the people who are failing the bar at UCH now have *arguably* the same stats as their peers at Davis (because we're talking about 2012 admits), but the Davis kids do substantially better on the bar. So there must be something else going on.

I've personally always suspected it's Hastings penchant for giving "opportunities" to people with truly horrific stats (Hastings reported accepting someone with a 145 LSAT back in 2012...then stopped reporting the true LSAT range altogether) and depending on the rest of the class to average this out, but I can't prove it.

Regardless, it's obnoxious that Davis was able to--and continues to--turn the situation around while Hastings continues to tank. That's a total failure on the part of Hastings' administration. Far more heads should have rolled than just Frank Wu's.




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