UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
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kapital98
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby kapital98 » Sat Feb 15, 2014 8:28 pm

OneMoreLawHopeful wrote:
You're not looking to gain insights from students at these schools, just to air your internet opinions in the hopes of gaining respect. Maybe you should start your own thread for that purpose and leave the ask-students threads alone.


I did a quick look through his history and noticed the same thing. He has a habit of trolling.

OneMoreLawHopeful, you're spot on here about Davis rigging their employment data as best as possible. They have a repeated behavior of doing this. Thanks for looking deeper into the statistics.

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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby Moonlight » Sat Feb 15, 2014 10:26 pm

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deebanger
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby deebanger » Sat Feb 15, 2014 11:29 pm

OneMoreLawHopeful wrote:
deebanger wrote:i am interested in discussion, and am just shocked that there are 95 hastings grads are unemployed, If i was trolling I will be like davis is the best school in the cali. I will not say that. In fact I believe Davis and Hastings should not be anybody's no 1 option. The pecking order in California is Stanford-Berkely- Ucla- Usc-Uci-Davis-Hastings- then all other law schools

If you've already made up your mind, then there is no point in discussing anything with you.

I was also deeply intrigued by your comparable comments in the University of Minnesota thread ( viewtopic.php?f=4&t=165679&p=7477151#p7477151 ). It seems you like to join threads about schools you do not attend, and invite others to agree with you about how those schools should feel ashamed of themselves (your words from the other thread).

You're not looking to gain insights from students at these schools, just to air your internet opinions in the hopes of gaining respect. Maybe you should start your own thread for that purpose and leave the ask-students threads alone.


I just wanted to know why almost 100 Hastings grads are unemployed according to class of 2012 data, is that a difficult question?

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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby a male human » Sun Feb 16, 2014 3:47 am

SFSpartan wrote:though SCU also stacks certain sections with scholarship kids, something Hastings doesn't do

Is this true? It seemed like my section was the most hardworking (or asocial) and/or hardcore.

For example: It had the most people in HLJ. It had the least people show up at the intersection dodgeball game (other sections had to lend our section people because we were that short). It occupied most of the private study rooms in the library.

Also I felt like some of our professors were atrocious. I had no fucking idea what was going on in con law or contracts that I'm surprised I even passed. I felt really gipped by everything. But I guess there was another section that had reason to complain. They had an extra unit to test out some alternative legal writing class. On the other end of the spectrum, there was one section that had no Friday classes.

I don't understand why our GPAs are compared against all sections combined when different professors teach and grade differently.

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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby Moonlight » Sun Feb 16, 2014 3:58 am

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dd235
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby dd235 » Sun Feb 16, 2014 4:30 am

deebanger wrote:
OneMoreLawHopeful wrote:
deebanger wrote:i am interested in discussion, and am just shocked that there are 95 hastings grads are unemployed, If i was trolling I will be like davis is the best school in the cali. I will not say that. In fact I believe Davis and Hastings should not be anybody's no 1 option. The pecking order in California is Stanford-Berkely- Ucla- Usc-Uci-Davis-Hastings- then all other law schools

If you've already made up your mind, then there is no point in discussing anything with you.

I was also deeply intrigued by your comparable comments in the University of Minnesota thread ( viewtopic.php?f=4&t=165679&p=7477151#p7477151 ). It seems you like to join threads about schools you do not attend, and invite others to agree with you about how those schools should feel ashamed of themselves (your words from the other thread).

You're not looking to gain insights from students at these schools, just to air your internet opinions in the hopes of gaining respect. Maybe you should start your own thread for that purpose and leave the ask-students threads alone.


I just wanted to know why almost 100 Hastings grads are unemployed according to class of 2012 data, is that a difficult question?


It's also important to note that Hastings' bar passage rate was just over 75% in 2012. This would account for close to 100 students who were ineligible for JD required jobs of any sort and were probably studying to retake the bar

deebanger
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby deebanger » Sun Feb 16, 2014 5:16 am

dd235 wrote:
deebanger wrote:
OneMoreLawHopeful wrote:
deebanger wrote:i am interested in discussion, and am just shocked that there are 95 hastings grads are unemployed, If i was trolling I will be like davis is the best school in the cali. I will not say that. In fact I believe Davis and Hastings should not be anybody's no 1 option. The pecking order in California is Stanford-Berkely- Ucla- Usc-Uci-Davis-Hastings- then all other law schools

If you've already made up your mind, then there is no point in discussing anything with you.

I was also deeply intrigued by your comparable comments in the University of Minnesota thread ( viewtopic.php?f=4&t=165679&p=7477151#p7477151 ). It seems you like to join threads about schools you do not attend, and invite others to agree with you about how those schools should feel ashamed of themselves (your words from the other thread).

You're not looking to gain insights from students at these schools, just to air your internet opinions in the hopes of gaining respect. Maybe you should start your own thread for that purpose and leave the ask-students threads alone.


I just wanted to know why almost 100 Hastings grads are unemployed according to class of 2012 data, is that a difficult question?


It's also important to note that Hastings' bar passage rate was just over 75% in 2012. This would account for close to 100 students who were ineligible for JD required jobs of any sort and were probably studying to retake the bar


So, their bar passage rate was below Davis?

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kapital98
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby kapital98 » Sun Feb 16, 2014 9:52 am

deebanger wrote:
So, their bar passage rate was below Davis?


It varies by year. Some years Davis is higher, some years Hastings is higher (I'm not counting February because that widely fluctuates for both schools).

The official statistics are here: http://admissions.calbar.ca.gov/Examina ... stics.aspx

Hastings has been slightly behind in the last 2 years. In 2011 they had a 6% higher passage rate. The same type of fluctuation happens in prior years too. It's essentially a wash between schools (just like most comparisons between the schools).

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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby dd235 » Sun Feb 16, 2014 2:25 pm

kapital98 wrote:
deebanger wrote:
So, their bar passage rate was below Davis?


It varies by year. Some years Davis is higher, some years Hastings is higher (I'm not counting February because that widely fluctuates for both schools).

The official statistics are here: http://admissions.calbar.ca.gov/Examina ... stics.aspx

Hastings has been slightly behind in the last 2 years. In 2011 they had a 6% higher passage rate. The same type of fluctuation happens in prior years too. It's essentially a wash between schools (just like most comparisons between the schools).


For July 2013, 85% of first-time takers passed from Davis while 76% of first-time takers passed from Hastings. That is not negligible.

deebanger
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby deebanger » Sun Feb 16, 2014 2:40 pm

dd235 wrote:
kapital98 wrote:
deebanger wrote:
So, their bar passage rate was below Davis?


It varies by year. Some years Davis is higher, some years Hastings is higher (I'm not counting February because that widely fluctuates for both schools).

The official statistics are here: http://admissions.calbar.ca.gov/Examina ... stics.aspx

Hastings has been slightly behind in the last 2 years. In 2011 they had a 6% higher passage rate. The same type of fluctuation happens in prior years too. It's essentially a wash between schools (just like most comparisons between the schools).


For July 2013, 85% of first-time takers passed from Davis while 76% of first-time takers passed from Hastings. That is not negligible.


I know right? so for the past 2 years, Davis' bar passage rates are higher, the davis grads have better employment rates, wow, that combined with Davis grads graduating with less debt due to the low cost of living, it looks like Davis has the edge over the Hastings.

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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby a male human » Sun Feb 16, 2014 3:11 pm

Moonlight wrote:
a male human wrote:
SFSpartan wrote:though SCU also stacks certain sections with scholarship kids, something Hastings doesn't do

Is this true? It seemed like my section was the most hardworking (or asocial) and/or hardcore.

For example: It had the most people in HLJ. It had the least people show up at the intersection dodgeball game (other sections had to lend our section people because we were that short). It occupied most of the private study rooms in the library.

Also I felt like some of our professors were atrocious. I had no fucking idea what was going on in con law or contracts that I'm surprised I even passed. I felt really gipped by everything. But I guess there was another section that had reason to complain. They had an extra unit to test out some alternative legal writing class. On the other end of the spectrum, there was one section that had no Friday classes.

I don't understand why our GPAs are compared against all sections combined when different professors teach and grade differently.


How is the scholarship retention rate?

I was reading up on SCU and I know over 50% of their 1L lose their scholarship by 2L so I know the stacking happens at SCU based on that.

I'm not aware of any retention stipulations offered by Hastings. As I mentioned before, you have to reapply for 2L and 3L scholarships (there are many available but hard to qualify for most of them).

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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby Moonlight » Sun Feb 16, 2014 3:27 pm

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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby kapital98 » Sun Feb 16, 2014 4:34 pm

dd235 wrote:
kapital98 wrote:
deebanger wrote:
So, their bar passage rate was below Davis?


It varies by year. Some years Davis is higher, some years Hastings is higher (I'm not counting February because that widely fluctuates for both schools).

The official statistics are here: http://admissions.calbar.ca.gov/Examina ... stics.aspx

Hastings has been slightly behind in the last 2 years. In 2011 they had a 6% higher passage rate. The same type of fluctuation happens in prior years too. It's essentially a wash between schools (just like most comparisons between the schools).


For July 2013, 85% of first-time takers passed from Davis while 76% of first-time takers passed from Hastings. That is not negligible.


That's one year of data. That by definition is statistically insignificant (sample size is too small). When you go back a few years Hastings often beats Davis. It's a back-and-forth game. If you want to risk your education on one sample among almost a decade of evidence, be my guest.

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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby deebanger » Sun Feb 16, 2014 4:42 pm

kapital98 wrote:
dd235 wrote:
kapital98 wrote:
deebanger wrote:
So, their bar passage rate was below Davis?


It varies by year. Some years Davis is higher, some years Hastings is higher (I'm not counting February because that widely fluctuates for both schools).

The official statistics are here: http://admissions.calbar.ca.gov/Examina ... stics.aspx

Hastings has been slightly behind in the last 2 years. In 2011 they had a 6% higher passage rate. The same type of fluctuation happens in prior years too. It's essentially a wash between schools (just like most comparisons between the schools).


For July 2013, 85% of first-time takers passed from Davis while 76% of first-time takers passed from Hastings. That is not negligible.


That's one year of data. That by definition is statistically insignificant (sample size is too small). When you go back a few years Hastings often beats Davis. It's a back-and-forth game. If you want to risk your education on one sample among almost a decade of evidence, be my guest.


Hey so what are your thoughts about for the past 2 years, Davis' bar passage rates being higher, the davis grads have better employment rates, wow, that combined with Davis grads graduating with less debt due to the low cost of living, it looks like Davis has the edge over the Hastings. And why is Hastings is not higher than Davis in the us news rankings?

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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby Moonlight » Sun Feb 16, 2014 5:10 pm

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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby deebanger » Sun Feb 16, 2014 5:28 pm

Moonlight wrote:
deebanger wrote:
Hey so what are your thoughts about for the past 2 years, Davis' bar passage rates being higher, the davis grads have better employment rates, wow, that combined with Davis grads graduating with less debt due to the low cost of living, it looks like Davis has the edge over the Hastings. And why is Hastings is not higher than Davis in the us news rankings?


With regards to the US News Ranking, you should look at the methodology employed to make the rankings. It doesn't necessarily speak to the excellence of an institution given how much is factored into it.

Like the other poster above, I have to say that 2 years is still a small sample size given the history of these institutions. The class size of Davis is also so much smaller so I think it should be interesting to see what happens when Hastings reaches its new target class sizes of 300 and under.


I will be the first person to admit US news rankings should not be the only criteria, but I just cannot help but be shocked at the fact that Almost 100 Hastings grads from the class of 2012 are unemployed, and the fact that there is a good chance that most of these grads will have more than 100,000 in loans is just sad.

And forget US news, how about the ATL rankings? UC Davis is ranked in the top 50, and Hastings did not even make the cut for the top 50. The only law schools from Cali to make the cut are Stanford, Berkely, UCLA, USC, and UC Davis. What are your thoughts on that?

ATL- Law rankings (they use better methodology than US news)- http://abovethelaw.com/careers/law-school-rankings/

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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby DildaMan » Sun Feb 16, 2014 6:34 pm

Moonlight wrote:
DildaMan wrote:I was deciding between SCU/Davis/Hastings two cycles ago. As the poster above already noted, SCU gave a 50% scholly to start and added more on top if you waited/negotiated. In hindsight, I probably should have just gone to SCU to minimize overall debt. Hastings is really stingy with the monies; Davis was even cheaper. I got 8500 in need-based aid (weird number) from Hastings. They refused to give me more; I tried to negotiate again during 2L but no luck.


But do you think SCU offers the same opportunities? Same question for Davis?

And how do you like Hastings?


SCU has a smaller margin of error. I hear only the top 5% really get big-law. Most of the ones that didn't make the very top had a hard time find jobs; they eventually got some mid/small firms. They have a lot of patent people so that skews their numbers a bit, but you really need to be at the very top of the class or be attractive as an IP candidate to do well there. They also tend to have a lot of older students with a sizable amount of work experience doing the part time. A lot of the IP firms recruit from SCU so it would not have been a huge difference for me.

Davis is an interesting school. There students have a higher placement rate, and the school is smaller. On the other hand, their home market is Sacramento. I have a few friends who went there that were able to get SF but once again you'd have to be near the top of your class. I think its about the same range for Hastings (Top 10-15%).

Hastings was fine as law-schools go. There are a few professors that are amazing: Diamond, DePorter, Mammen, etc . . . . There are a lot of gunners but they keep to themselves. The large class size works against the students for OCI and employment in general. My only complaint is they're stingy. I know SCU gives incentives for their top performers. If Hastings would have thrown some more money at me I probably would have stayed.

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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby a male human » Sun Feb 16, 2014 10:49 pm

Moonlight wrote:
a male human wrote:
Moonlight wrote:
a male human wrote:Is this true? It seemed like my section was the most hardworking (or asocial) and/or hardcore.

For example: It had the most people in HLJ. It had the least people show up at the intersection dodgeball game (other sections had to lend our section people because we were that short). It occupied most of the private study rooms in the library.

Also I felt like some of our professors were atrocious. I had no fucking idea what was going on in con law or contracts that I'm surprised I even passed. I felt really gipped by everything. But I guess there was another section that had reason to complain. They had an extra unit to test out some alternative legal writing class. On the other end of the spectrum, there was one section that had no Friday classes.

I don't understand why our GPAs are compared against all sections combined when different professors teach and grade differently.


How is the scholarship retention rate?

I was reading up on SCU and I know over 50% of their 1L lose their scholarship by 2L so I know the stacking happens at SCU based on that.

I'm not aware of any retention stipulations offered by Hastings. As I mentioned before, you have to reapply for 2L and 3L scholarships (there are many available but hard to qualify for most of them).


Okay thanks! But for the ones awarded for 1L, those renew automatically right?

No, those are the ones you have to reapply for.

Same with grants. You apply for them every year. The financial aid office manager asked me every year about my numbers over email. I responded with reasonable answers and he was like oh ok and approved the grant (about 5k/sem). IDK if that's a common occurrence or if he was just suspicious about my grant application.

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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby Moonlight » Sun Feb 16, 2014 11:43 pm

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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby Moonlight » Sun Feb 16, 2014 11:45 pm

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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby hiima3L » Mon Feb 17, 2014 12:09 am

deebanger wrote:
dd235 wrote:
kapital98 wrote:
deebanger wrote:
So, their bar passage rate was below Davis?


It varies by year. Some years Davis is higher, some years Hastings is higher (I'm not counting February because that widely fluctuates for both schools).

The official statistics are here: http://admissions.calbar.ca.gov/Examina ... stics.aspx

Hastings has been slightly behind in the last 2 years. In 2011 they had a 6% higher passage rate. The same type of fluctuation happens in prior years too. It's essentially a wash between schools (just like most comparisons between the schools).


For July 2013, 85% of first-time takers passed from Davis while 76% of first-time takers passed from Hastings. That is not negligible.


I know right? so for the past 2 years, Davis' bar passage rates are higher, the davis grads have better employment rates, wow, that combined with Davis grads graduating with less debt due to the low cost of living, it looks like Davis has the edge over the Hastings.


Bar passage rates are very, very strongly associated to class ranking. I'm too lazy to find links about it, but there is info out there. If you're in the top 50% of any decent CA law school, there is a 95%+ chance of passing. The overwhelming majority of people who fail the bar are in the bottom of the class. Something like 75-90% of those who fail the bar at non-shit schools are in the bottom third. I also was pretty close with a Hastings professor who had access to UCH's student data re bar passage and class rank and confirmed this with me when I asked. Based on the anecdotal experience of my class, it seems completely true.

Also, IMO, it is beyond dispute that Davis REALLY fudged its numbers in the past few years. It had a 97% reported employment rate in I think 2011. There is absolutely no way 97% of its class had JD- and bar-passage required jobs. I would be extremely wary of Davis's reported stats.

Conversely, I think UCH's employment stats are accurate: http://abovethelaw.com/2013/04/the-law- ... ent-rates/

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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby a male human » Mon Feb 17, 2014 1:21 am

Moonlight wrote:
a male human wrote:No, those are the ones you have to reapply for.

Same with grants. You apply for them every year. The financial aid office manager asked me every year about my numbers over email. I responded with reasonable answers and he was like oh ok and approved the grant (about 5k/sem). IDK if that's a common occurrence or if he was just suspicious about my grant application.


When you say reapply, just Need Access and Fafsa? Or like write an application type of reapply?

That Need Access form asks us to estimate so much that its actually stressful to try and estimate lol

Scholarships: Apply directly with school. There is a webpage somewhere with a bunch of info on all the in-house scholarships.

Grants: I think it's just FAFSA and Hastings' own form.

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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby Moonlight » Mon Feb 17, 2014 2:24 am

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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby DildaMan » Mon Feb 17, 2014 3:34 am

Moonlight wrote:
DildaMan wrote:SCU has a smaller margin of error. I hear only the top 5% really get big-law. Most of the ones that didn't make the very top had a hard time find jobs; they eventually got some mid/small firms. They have a lot of patent people so that skews their numbers a bit, but you really need to be at the very top of the class or be attractive as an IP candidate to do well there. They also tend to have a lot of older students with a sizable amount of work experience doing the part time. A lot of the IP firms recruit from SCU so it would not have been a huge difference for me.

Davis is an interesting school. There students have a higher placement rate, and the school is smaller. On the other hand, their home market is Sacramento. I have a few friends who went there that were able to get SF but once again you'd have to be near the top of your class. I think its about the same range for Hastings (Top 10-15%).

Hastings was fine as law-schools go. There are a few professors that are amazing: Diamond, DePorter, Mammen, etc . . . . There are a lot of gunners but they keep to themselves. The large class size works against the students for OCI and employment in general. My only complaint is they're stingy. I know SCU gives incentives for their top performers. If Hastings would have thrown some more money at me I probably would have stayed.


See you hit the spot right on with SCU. My concern was the presence of a lot of patent people which I feared will skew their numbers.

Congrats on your transfer. I assume you're at a T-14 nowadays. Do you have any professors I should avoid?


I ended up at USC. I would avoid Federal Income Tax as your statutory elective. I felt the class was gunner heavy. Other than that I believe your entire 1L is assigned. During 2L I would avoid Martinez, Lefstin, and Levine. I heard Martinez and Lefstin have harsh curves.

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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby hiima3L » Mon Feb 17, 2014 1:36 pm

DildaMan wrote:
Moonlight wrote:
DildaMan wrote:SCU has a smaller margin of error. I hear only the top 5% really get big-law. Most of the ones that didn't make the very top had a hard time find jobs; they eventually got some mid/small firms. They have a lot of patent people so that skews their numbers a bit, but you really need to be at the very top of the class or be attractive as an IP candidate to do well there. They also tend to have a lot of older students with a sizable amount of work experience doing the part time. A lot of the IP firms recruit from SCU so it would not have been a huge difference for me.

Davis is an interesting school. There students have a higher placement rate, and the school is smaller. On the other hand, their home market is Sacramento. I have a few friends who went there that were able to get SF but once again you'd have to be near the top of your class. I think its about the same range for Hastings (Top 10-15%).

Hastings was fine as law-schools go. There are a few professors that are amazing: Diamond, DePorter, Mammen, etc . . . . There are a lot of gunners but they keep to themselves. The large class size works against the students for OCI and employment in general. My only complaint is they're stingy. I know SCU gives incentives for their top performers. If Hastings would have thrown some more money at me I probably would have stayed.


See you hit the spot right on with SCU. My concern was the presence of a lot of patent people which I feared will skew their numbers.

Congrats on your transfer. I assume you're at a T-14 nowadays. Do you have any professors I should avoid?


I ended up at USC. I would avoid Federal Income Tax as your statutory elective. I felt the class was gunner heavy. Other than that I believe your entire 1L is assigned. During 2L I would avoid Martinez, Lefstin, and Levine. I heard Martinez and Lefstin have harsh curves.


Why avoid Levine? I really liked that guy as a person and a prof. But I only took his classes as a very checked out 3L, so, take that as you may.




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