UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
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shazi
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby shazi » Sun Feb 09, 2014 11:38 pm

ilovesf wrote:I thought all 1L activities were stupid. I didn't join any clubs and don't regret it at all. The only clubs worthwhile are ones that actually do something concrete like Hastings to Haiti (I really regret not applying for that). 1L is about getting good grades.


I totally agree!

I think volunteering is helpful for gaining legal experience and padding the resume though.




BTW Moonlight i sent you a PM

For those wondering, you CAN send initial deposits to more than 1 school.

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Dingo Starr
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby Dingo Starr » Mon Feb 10, 2014 12:36 am

Moonlight wrote:Awesome! Would you mind telling me what your thought process was for choosing Hastings over SCU? And did you get into Hastings prior to the April 15 deposit deadline as well? Or did you get in after? Or did you deposit at both schools? (not sure if that's allowed, but if anyone knows let me know too)

Because I'm thinking if I can deposit at two then should I deposit once at SCU and not deposit the second to see if they'll bump it as well?

Moon and I are in very similar boats in terms of numbers, acceptances, and scholly offers.
Unfortunately, I cannot afford to play the multiple deposits game. I have to pick one by the first deposit deadline.
I am also curious about all of these questions.

Moonlight
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby Moonlight » Mon Feb 10, 2014 12:57 am

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shazi
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby shazi » Mon Feb 10, 2014 1:07 am

Moonlight wrote:
Dingo Starr wrote:
Moonlight wrote:Awesome! Would you mind telling me what your thought process was for choosing Hastings over SCU? And did you get into Hastings prior to the April 15 deposit deadline as well? Or did you get in after? Or did you deposit at both schools? (not sure if that's allowed, but if anyone knows let me know too)

Because I'm thinking if I can deposit at two then should I deposit once at SCU and not deposit the second to see if they'll bump it as well?

Moon and I are in very similar boats in terms of numbers, acceptances, and scholly offers.
Unfortunately, I cannot afford to play the multiple deposits game. I have to pick one by the first deposit deadline.
I am also curious about all of these questions.


You're not the only one in that boat for the multiple deposits game. I may be able to squeeze two deposits but that wouldn't be fun lol. But yea I'm curious if we don't deposit at all whether or not scholly offers may still be auto raised.


First of all, NEGOTIATE, NEGOTIATE, NEGOTIATE.

Second, if you're still unsure when first deposits are due... Fork up the dough for multiple deposits or retake and reapply. It's too big a decision for a couple hundred bucks to matter. Also, paying an extra $150 or whatever it was would have landed me an extra 10k per semester had I chosen to go to SCU. So there's always that possibility.

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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby Moonlight » Mon Feb 10, 2014 1:20 am

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shazi
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby shazi » Mon Feb 10, 2014 1:32 am

Moonlight wrote:
shazi wrote:
First of all, NEGOTIATE, NEGOTIATE, NEGOTIATE.

Second, if you're still unsure when first deposits are due... Fork up the dough for multiple deposits or retake and reapply. It's too big a decision for a couple hundred bucks to matter. Also, paying an extra $150 or whatever it was would have landed me an extra 10k per semester had I chosen to go to SCU. So there's always that possibility.


Advice on negotiating? I basically sent a school an email saying I received x, x, and x from another school but would really love to attend your school so wondering if you would increase my scholly. They said they'll review it but haven't heard back for a couple of weeks now.


That's good. That's probably all you can do. At least they said they'll consider it. Maybe try asking again in a more urgent tone if you don't hear back for a while

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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby Moonlight » Mon Feb 10, 2014 1:39 am

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shazi
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby shazi » Mon Feb 10, 2014 3:13 am

Moonlight wrote:
shazi wrote:
Moonlight wrote:
shazi wrote:
First of all, NEGOTIATE, NEGOTIATE, NEGOTIATE.

Second, if you're still unsure when first deposits are due... Fork up the dough for multiple deposits or retake and reapply. It's too big a decision for a couple hundred bucks to matter. Also, paying an extra $150 or whatever it was would have landed me an extra 10k per semester had I chosen to go to SCU. So there's always that possibility.


Advice on negotiating? I basically sent a school an email saying I received x, x, and x from another school but would really love to attend your school so wondering if you would increase my scholly. They said they'll review it but haven't heard back for a couple of weeks now.


That's good. That's probably all you can do. At least they said they'll consider it. Maybe try asking again in a more urgent tone if you don't hear back for a while


I'm curious what you think of how to add to that negotiation? Like if I get another school's offer after that email? Should I send another to add to it? How would I even do that? Or should I wait for the first round to come back then counter?


Those are good questions. I'm not sure if it'll land you extra $ if you wait and counter instead of updating them right away. It's probably safer to just update right away. Just attach a new email updating your scholly offers and ask for an increase. Can't hurt to try.

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Jamesta25
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby Jamesta25 » Wed Feb 12, 2014 2:39 pm

shazi wrote:
Moonlight wrote:
Lasers wrote:
Moonlight wrote:Less stable than SCU?

So what do you guys think of the fact that SCU has a 3.0 stip that over half of its recipients lose it by the 2nd year? I was thinking that since SCU only offered 20K and that Hastings offers a 13,500 grant, that unless SCU increases my aid a lot then I should go Hastings financially speaking?

Plus I was thinking that its odd that SCU gave some people no stips but others stips.

if you don't meet the 3.0 stip, what happens? 0 aid? is the $20k from scu including need based grant?

i generally don't like stips. that's a pretty close call.


I think if I don't meet the 3.0 stip then zero aid because its merit aid and not need based aid...

Do schools send a final financial aid letter or are the individual notifications of scholarships all that there is?



Hey Moonlight,

I was in a very similar situation. I was offered 20k in merit aid from SCU with a 3.2 GPA stip.
I held out! I submitted my first deposit to SCU but never sent them a second deposit.

SCU automatically bumped up its offer to 30k with a 3.0 GPA stip without me even asking them!

However, I ended up going to Hastings for about 10k in need-based aid instead.
I do not regret my decision at all!

Shazi - I have the same questions as Moonlight. Would you mind forwarding me the info you sent in that PM? Thanks for your feedback.

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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby Moonlight » Wed Feb 12, 2014 2:59 pm

Jamesta25 wrote:Shazi - I have the same questions as Moonlight. Would you mind forwarding me the info you sent in that PM? Thanks for your feedback.


I'd be curious to talk to you as well James! It could be helpful to discuss this out more with people in similar positions.

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Jamesta25
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby Jamesta25 » Wed Feb 12, 2014 7:06 pm

Moonlight wrote:
Jamesta25 wrote:Shazi - I have the same questions as Moonlight. Would you mind forwarding me the info you sent in that PM? Thanks for your feedback.


I'd be curious to talk to you as well James! It could be helpful to discuss this out more with people in similar positions.

Sure thing, I'd be happy to.

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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby SFSpartan » Fri Feb 14, 2014 12:28 pm

Given the recent discussion, I thought I'd provide a bit of my own anecdata.

I ended up at Hastings, and decided to deposit there. I also got into SCU, but never sent them a deposit. When the first deposit deadline came up, I was still on the fence, but didn't want to deposit at multiple schools. Although I didn't deposit and SCU, I did get a letter from them about a month past the deposit deadline. The letter offered me an additional 10k per year and dropped scholarship stips from top 30% to median. Although I ultimately didn't end up there, the point stands. If you're numbers are good for SCU, and you're on the fence, and you'd be happy with Hastings in any case, don't deposit at SCU. From what I understand, my experience with them was pretty typical for last cycle, and given apps being down again, I see no reason why it won't happen again.

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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby Moonlight » Fri Feb 14, 2014 12:35 pm

SFSpartan wrote:Given the recent discussion, I thought I'd provide a bit of my own anecdata.

I ended up at Hastings, and decided to deposit there. I also got into SCU, but never sent them a deposit. When the first deposit deadline came up, I was still on the fence, but didn't want to deposit at multiple schools. Although I didn't deposit and SCU, I did get a letter from them about a month past the deposit deadline. The letter offered me an additional 10k per year and dropped scholarship stips from top 30% to median. Although I ultimately didn't end up there, the point stands. If you're numbers are good for SCU, and you're on the fence, and you'd be happy with Hastings in any case, don't deposit at SCU. From what I understand, my experience with them was pretty typical for last cycle, and given apps being down again, I see no reason why it won't happen again.


That's an excellent point. How do you like Hastings? Anything you don't like that you feel we should know about as prospectives?

And do you know if a lot of people get additional scholarship in addition to the $13k of need-based scholly? If so, when did you guys find out last year roughly?

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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby DildaMan » Sat Feb 15, 2014 3:26 am

I was deciding between SCU/Davis/Hastings two cycles ago. As the poster above already noted, SCU gave a 50% scholly to start and added more on top if you waited/negotiated. In hindsight, I probably should have just gone to SCU to minimize overall debt. Hastings is really stingy with the monies; Davis was even cheaper. I got 8500 in need-based aid (weird number) from Hastings. They refused to give me more; I tried to negotiate again during 2L but no luck.

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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby Moonlight » Sat Feb 15, 2014 3:39 am

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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby SFSpartan » Sat Feb 15, 2014 5:42 pm

Moonlight wrote:
SFSpartan wrote:Given the recent discussion, I thought I'd provide a bit of my own anecdata.

I ended up at Hastings, and decided to deposit there. I also got into SCU, but never sent them a deposit. When the first deposit deadline came up, I was still on the fence, but didn't want to deposit at multiple schools. Although I didn't deposit and SCU, I did get a letter from them about a month past the deposit deadline. The letter offered me an additional 10k per year and dropped scholarship stips from top 30% to median. Although I ultimately didn't end up there, the point stands. If you're numbers are good for SCU, and you're on the fence, and you'd be happy with Hastings in any case, don't deposit at SCU. From what I understand, my experience with them was pretty typical for last cycle, and given apps being down again, I see no reason why it won't happen again.


That's an excellent point. How do you like Hastings? Anything you don't like that you feel we should know about as prospectives?

And do you know if a lot of people get additional scholarship in addition to the $13k of need-based scholly? If so, when did you guys find out last year roughly?


I'm really enjoying Hastings thus far. My professors don't seem to be the typical "hide the ball" types that you hear about in law school, which is great, because it is much less stressful.

I have a few thoughts about alternate things to consider. Since some of my thoughts will address transferring, I will preface them with this: Under no circumstances should you go to ANY law school thinking you are going to transfer. There is an 80-90% chance that won't happen. Everyone at Hastings is more than smart enough to do the work. Thoughts below.

I have some thoughts on the role of prestige in legal hiring, but don't want to bore you all with that here. If you're interested in what that means for you, PM me and I'll get back to you.

ASW is basically a giant infomercial for the school. Pay little, if any attention to anything anyone tells you. Focus on the facilities (library, Gold Room, etc.), and think about whether you would be happy there.

I didn't pay enough attention to clinics, but I suggest you look into this for every law school you apply to. Hastings happens to have a clinic that I'm really interested in, but I didn't really think about the value of clinics until this year.

With Hastings, you have to recognize that it "works out" for about 60 kids each year. "Works out" means these people ended up in Biglaw, or an Article III clerkship. Other than that, you're going to have to hustle/network for a job, which is more difficult than it sounds.

One thing that is particularly unfortunate about Hastings, (and I haven't been through this process yet, so this is word of mouth) is that the Administration doesn't negotiate with transfers, and doesn't really increase merit $$, regardless of 1L performance. This seems to be a radical departure from other schools. SCU, for example, gives large scholarships to 1Ls that do well (though SCU also stacks certain sections with scholarship kids, something Hastings doesn't do.)

tl;dr: I like Hastings overall. It's a decent (but not great) school, and I'm relatively happy here. There are a number of unfortunate things about Hastings, including low job placement numbers.

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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby deebanger » Sat Feb 15, 2014 6:09 pm

SFSpartan wrote:
Moonlight wrote:
SFSpartan wrote:Given the recent discussion, I thought I'd provide a bit of my own anecdata.

I ended up at Hastings, and decided to deposit there. I also got into SCU, but never sent them a deposit. When the first deposit deadline came up, I was still on the fence, but didn't want to deposit at multiple schools. Although I didn't deposit and SCU, I did get a letter from them about a month past the deposit deadline. The letter offered me an additional 10k per year and dropped scholarship stips from top 30% to median. Although I ultimately didn't end up there, the point stands. If you're numbers are good for SCU, and you're on the fence, and you'd be happy with Hastings in any case, don't deposit at SCU. From what I understand, my experience with them was pretty typical for last cycle, and given apps being down again, I see no reason why it won't happen again.


That's an excellent point. How do you like Hastings? Anything you don't like that you feel we should know about as prospectives?

And do you know if a lot of people get additional scholarship in addition to the $13k of need-based scholly? If so, when did you guys find out last year roughly?


I'm really enjoying Hastings thus far. My professors don't seem to be the typical "hide the ball" types that you hear about in law school, which is great, because it is much less stressful.

I have a few thoughts about alternate things to consider. Since some of my thoughts will address transferring, I will preface them with this: Under no circumstances should you go to ANY law school thinking you are going to transfer. There is an 80-90% chance that won't happen. Everyone at Hastings is more than smart enough to do the work. Thoughts below.

I have some thoughts on the role of prestige in legal hiring, but don't want to bore you all with that here. If you're interested in what that means for you, PM me and I'll get back to you.

ASW is basically a giant infomercial for the school. Pay little, if any attention to anything anyone tells you. Focus on the facilities (library, Gold Room, etc.), and think about whether you would be happy there.

I didn't pay enough attention to clinics, but I suggest you look into this for every law school you apply to. Hastings happens to have a clinic that I'm really interested in, but I didn't really think about the value of clinics until this year.

With Hastings, you have to recognize that it "works out" for about 60 kids each year. "Works out" means these people ended up in Biglaw, or an Article III clerkship. Other than that, you're going to have to hustle/network for a job, which is more difficult than it sounds.

One thing that is particularly unfortunate about Hastings, (and I haven't been through this process yet, so this is word of mouth) is that the Administration doesn't negotiate with transfers, and doesn't really increase merit $$, regardless of 1L performance. This seems to be a radical departure from other schools. SCU, for example, gives large scholarships to 1Ls that do well (though SCU also stacks certain sections with scholarship kids, something Hastings doesn't do.)

tl;dr: I like Hastings overall. It's a decent (but not great) school, and I'm relatively happy here. There are a number of unfortunate things about Hastings, including low job placement numbers.


Hey thanks for your input, so what is your general take on Davis having better employment numbers than Hastings, do you all agree that the reality is that Davis grads are getting more jobs than hastings grads?. would love to get your thoughts/opinions.

http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=hastings
http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=davis

Some other interesting information- 21.44 percent of hastings graduates are unemployed, whereas 5.94 percent of davis grads are unemployed. These are numbers from class of 2012 employment.

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Mick Haller
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby Mick Haller » Sat Feb 15, 2014 6:16 pm

I think a that 21% figure is largely a function of a) Hastings' large class size, b) people go to Hastings bc they want to live in the Bay Area. Which is a very tough job market and Hastings is pretty far down the food chain.

If you are flexible location wise your job search will probably be somewhat easier (Sac, Fresno, SoCal, etc)

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kapital98
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby kapital98 » Sat Feb 15, 2014 6:19 pm

deebanger wrote:
Hey thanks for your input, so what is your general take on Davis having better employment numbers than Hastings, do you all agree that the reality is that Davis grads are getting more jobs than hastings grads?. would love to get your thoughts/opinions.

http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=hastings
http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=davis

Some other interesting information- 21.44 percent of hastings graduates are unemployed, whereas 5.94 percent of davis grads are unemployed. These are numbers from class of 2012 employment.


Law School Transparency is pretty good so I'm guessing their numbers are accurate. However, I'm still suspicious of Davis' numbers. Just a few years ago they reported 97% employment (before the new standards were introduced). They've been known to rig their numbers more than maybe any other school.

deebanger
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby deebanger » Sat Feb 15, 2014 6:24 pm

kapital98 wrote:
deebanger wrote:
Hey thanks for your input, so what is your general take on Davis having better employment numbers than Hastings, do you all agree that the reality is that Davis grads are getting more jobs than hastings grads?. would love to get your thoughts/opinions.

http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=hastings
http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=davis

Some other interesting information- 21.44 percent of hastings graduates are unemployed, whereas 5.94 percent of davis grads are unemployed. These are numbers from class of 2012 employment.


Law School Transparency is pretty good so I'm guessing their numbers are accurate. However, I'm still suspicious of Davis' numbers. Just a few years ago they reported 97% employment (before the new standards were introduced). They've been known to rig their numbers more than maybe any other school.


I looked into it, Davis' numbers are accurate. https://www.law.ucdavis.edu/current/car ... BA-509.pdf

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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby OneMoreLawHopeful » Sat Feb 15, 2014 6:34 pm

LOL @ at UC Davis "employment" numbers.

Are you guys really not seeing the 27 "short term part time" school funded positions that are being reported as "employed"?

If you add up the 12 unemployed "seeking," the 27 part time jobs that Davis created to skew the stats, and the 4 "unknown" you get 43/202 who are unemployed, an unemployment rate of over 21%, and a far cry from 5%.

That's also a conservative estimate as 2 additional jobs were school funded, but they're "long term" so I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt, and also assuming that the "unemployed not seeking" is an honest assessment.

Edit: check the ABA report to see a break down by job type and note the "school funded" make work at Davis, http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=davis&show=ABA

Further edit: I want to be clear, Hastings pulls the same shit, but the smaller class size at Davis means that fewer make-work jobs go farther in skewing the stats. If you perform the same calculation, Hastings has an unemployment rate of ~28% compared with an official rate of 21%, which seems more honest than reporting an official rate of 5% when the true rate is 21%. There might be something to be said for "any dishonesty is not okay," but what Davis was doing always struck me as worse.

There's also an argument that some of the Hastings jobs are "real" through the "lawyers for America" program, as the jobs are all bar passage required. The equivalent Davis jobs are "jd advantage" with no bar requirement.

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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby deebanger » Sat Feb 15, 2014 6:53 pm

OneMoreLawHopeful wrote:LOL @ at UC Davis "employment" numbers.

Are you guys really not seeing the 27 "short term part time" school funded positions that are being reported as "employed"?

If you add up the 12 unemployed "seeking," the 27 part time jobs that Davis created to skew the stats, and the 4 "unknown" you get 43/202 who are unemployed, an unemployment rate of over 21%, and a far cry from 5%.

That's also a conservative estimate as 2 additional jobs were school funded, but they're "long term" so I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt, and also assuming that the "unemployed not seeking" is an honest assessment.

Edit: check the ABA report to see a break down by job type and note the "school funded" make work at Davis,http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=davis&show=ABA


Yes, there are 27 school funded jobs, every school as school funded jobs,there are schools in the top 10 that report that have much more than 27 school funded jobs, The main question is how are you feeling about almost 100 Hastings graduates (95 to be exact) from class of 2012 are unemployed and are still seeking a job, and are unable to put food in the table. Davis on the other hand, have approached the law school game smartly, thus have smaller class sizes (are not greedy), and thus as a result there are only 12 unemployed graduates seeking a job. So your opinions about almost 100 hastings being unemployed?

This is the Hastings class of 2012 data in aba format. This shows that there are 95 unemployed Hastings grads and are seeking jobs, there are 2 unemployed, not seeking, and 8 unkown status. This is just sad. http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school= ... s&show=ABA

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OneMoreLawHopeful
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby OneMoreLawHopeful » Sat Feb 15, 2014 7:04 pm

deebanger wrote:Yes, there are 27 school funded jobs, every school as school funded jobs,there are schools in the top 10 that report that have much more than 27 school funded jobs, The main question is how are you feeling about almost 100 Hastings graduates (95 to be exact) from class of 2012 are unemployed and are still seeking a job, and are unable to put food in the table. Davis on the other hand, have approached the law school game smartly, thus have smaller class sizes (are not greedy), and thus as a result there are only 12 unemployed graduates seeking a job. So your opinions about almost 100 hastings being unemployed?

Saying "every school has school funded jobs" and then the comments about "food on the table" suggests you don't really understand how school funded jobs work. They do not pay well. They are not full time. They provide no security. They are not the school "being generous," they are an act of dishonesty aimed at driving up future applications.

Hastings reporting 95 unemployed graduates is honest. Davis reporting more than twice as many "school funded short term part time" make-work jobs as unemployed students is inherently dishonest. They are hiding more than two thirds of their unemployed through an ABA reporting loophole.

But hey, if you were actually interested, you'd already know that Hastings made large class cuts (320 in the class of 2015, compared to 443 in the class of 2012), your use of the word "greedy" coupled with your claim that Davis has been "smart" suggests you're not really interested in discussion, just trolling.

deebanger
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby deebanger » Sat Feb 15, 2014 7:17 pm

OneMoreLawHopeful wrote:
deebanger wrote:Yes, there are 27 school funded jobs, every school as school funded jobs,there are schools in the top 10 that report that have much more than 27 school funded jobs, The main question is how are you feeling about almost 100 Hastings graduates (95 to be exact) from class of 2012 are unemployed and are still seeking a job, and are unable to put food in the table. Davis on the other hand, have approached the law school game smartly, thus have smaller class sizes (are not greedy), and thus as a result there are only 12 unemployed graduates seeking a job. So your opinions about almost 100 hastings being unemployed?

Saying "every school has school funded jobs" and then the comments about "food on the table" suggests you don't really understand how school funded jobs work. They do not pay well. They are not full time. They provide no security. They are not the school "being generous," they are an act of dishonesty aimed at driving up future applications.

Hastings reporting 95 unemployed graduates is honest. Davis reporting more than twice as many "school funded short term part time" make-work jobs as unemployed students is inherently dishonest. They are hiding more than two thirds of their unemployed through an ABA reporting loophole.

But hey, if you were actually interested, you'd already know that Hastings made large class cuts (320 in the class of 2015, compared to 443 in the class of 2012), your use of the word "greedy" coupled with your claim that Davis has been "smart" suggests you're not really interested in discussion, just trolling.


i am interested in discussion, and am just shocked that there are 95 hastings grads are unemployed, If i was trolling I will be like davis is the best school in the cali. I will not say that. In fact I believe Davis and Hastings should not be anybody's no 1 option. The pecking order in California is Stanford-Berkely- Ucla- Usc-Uci-Davis-Hastings- then all other law schools

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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby OneMoreLawHopeful » Sat Feb 15, 2014 7:27 pm

deebanger wrote:i am interested in discussion, and am just shocked that there are 95 hastings grads are unemployed, If i was trolling I will be like davis is the best school in the cali. I will not say that. In fact I believe Davis and Hastings should not be anybody's no 1 option. The pecking order in California is Stanford-Berkely- Ucla- Usc-Uci-Davis-Hastings- then all other law schools

If you've already made up your mind, then there is no point in discussing anything with you.

I was also deeply intrigued by your comparable comments in the University of Minnesota thread ( viewtopic.php?f=4&t=165679&p=7477151#p7477151 ). It seems you like to join threads about schools you do not attend, and invite others to agree with you about how those schools should feel ashamed of themselves (your words from the other thread).

You're not looking to gain insights from students at these schools, just to air your internet opinions in the hopes of gaining respect. Maybe you should start your own thread for that purpose and leave the ask-students threads alone.




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