UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
onionskin
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby onionskin » Sat Apr 13, 2013 12:58 pm

Maybe they'll pull a WA and tighten all the DUI laws. Plenty of those to catch in the countryside.

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msblaw89
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby msblaw89 » Tue Apr 16, 2013 7:19 pm

Professor Leo Martinez is coming to Cornell to teach tax. Any upperclassmen have details? Is he tough?

apollo2015
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby apollo2015 » Tue Apr 16, 2013 9:01 pm

I had Martinez for Contracts. Martinez is an awesome semi old-school professor. I would recommend taking him. He makes class a lot of fun.

seamus86
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby seamus86 » Wed Apr 17, 2013 2:08 pm

What would current/former students say about LS and policy work? I know that UCH has the Legislation Clinir, and I see policy as an area I would find to be very interesting (maybe it's 0L naivete, but it's what I enjoy reading in the news/debating about the most). I've thought about MPP/MPA programs, but they wouldn't offer the broader education LS does, or the other opportunities that may come with that education (for example, if I find I don't like the study of policy). Admittedly, LS is of course much more pricey.

Anyway, I guess I have two questions: what do people think of policy work out of law school, and would it be affordable with $100K-ish of debt? And, secondly, does Hastings have a decent program for it?

SFSpartan
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby SFSpartan » Wed Apr 17, 2013 2:15 pm

seamus86 wrote:What would current/former students say about LS and policy work? I know that UCH has the Legislation Clinir, and I see policy as an area I would find to be very interesting (maybe it's 0L naivete, but it's what I enjoy reading in the news/debating about the most). I've thought about MPP/MPA programs, but they wouldn't offer the broader education LS does, or the other opportunities that may come with that education (for example, if I find I don't like the study of policy). Admittedly, LS is of course much more pricey.

Anyway, I guess I have two questions: what do people think of policy work out of law school, and would it be affordable with $100K-ish of debt? And, secondly, does Hastings have a decent program for it?


Keep in mind that public policy is a field in which your continued ability to have a job is based mainly on who you know, and the strength of your personal relationships. If you don't have prior policy experience (of course, you could obtain said experience through the legislative clinic), or have DC connections, it can be OBSCENELY hard to get a job.

That being said, if Public Policy is what your interested in, you might consider a JD/MPA or JD/MPP. The program @ SFSU is very low cost.

seamus86
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby seamus86 » Wed Apr 17, 2013 3:10 pm

SFSpartan wrote:Keep in mind that public policy is a field in which your continued ability to have a job is based mainly on who you know, and the strength of your personal relationships. If you don't have prior policy experience (of course, you could obtain said experience through the legislative clinic), or have DC connections, it can be OBSCENELY hard to get a job.

That being said, if Public Policy is what your interested in, you might consider a JD/MPA or JD/MPP. The program @ SFSU is very low cost.


Yeah, I wouldn't consider that path a guarantee, by any means. I'd probably try to keep up with a second concentration, if possible--IP would be a decent fit for me, as I have a light background in tech (no education/degree), that may fit for soft IP work.

As far as SFSU goes, I'm rather skeptical of a program that doesn't require the GRE. I think I'd rather focus effort on a Clinic, rather than on a questionable MPA program. As far as Berkeley's MPP at Goldman, the added expense would probably not be worthwhile...and I was already declined from it last year, although perhaps the joint degree would give me a leg up.

Thanks for the reply!

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kapital98
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby kapital98 » Wed Apr 17, 2013 5:24 pm

seamus86 wrote:What would current/former students say about LS and policy work? I know that UCH has the Legislation Clinir, and I see policy as an area I would find to be very interesting (maybe it's 0L naivete, but it's what I enjoy reading in the news/debating about the most). I've thought about MPP/MPA programs, but they wouldn't offer the broader education LS does, or the other opportunities that may come with that education (for example, if I find I don't like the study of policy). Admittedly, LS is of course much more pricey.

Anyway, I guess I have two questions: what do people think of policy work out of law school, and would it be affordable with $100K-ish of debt? And, secondly, does Hastings have a decent program for it?


"Policy" is a rather vague and misleading area. If you want to do serious policy analysis, get a degree in political science, economics, statistics, accounting, or something similar. If you want a graduate degree think about getting a Masters of Public Administration.

There are almost no jobs for policy. Very little of the law is policy based (policy is not law). It would be significantly better to get a degree that teaches you quantitative analysis than something that gives you a jack-of-all-trades education in law.

There are a small minority of jobs that could be considered policy if you don't mind working for public interest groups. It's not anything like discussing an article in The Economist though :|

The courtroom is one of the last places policy is relevant. It's on the bottom of the list of what's important (Constitution, Statutes, Common Law, ..., ..., Policy). From personal experience in the courtroom, "science" is often admitted even though it has never been peer reviewed and is flat out wrong. Most lawyers don't know basic statistics.

And Hastings? You're not going to find any prestigious policy jobs from Hastings. Once again, your only realistic shot is working at a small public interest firm (ex: LGBT advocacy).

I know this is very pessimistic. I love policy. If I could talk about Law & Econ every day I would be in heaven. I wish law school had more of it. But it doesn't. The law is 99% statutes and court interpretation of the statutes. Even if it doesn't make sense, or is scientifically wrong, precedent beats policy almost every time.

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Mick Haller
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby Mick Haller » Wed Apr 17, 2013 5:40 pm

msblaw89 wrote:Professor Leo Martinez is coming to Cornell to teach tax. Any upperclassmen have details? Is he tough?


I had him for tax a few years ago. He is a super cool person, easily one of the nicest people you will meet in law school. But I didn't find him that great at teaching tax. He is sloppy with his math, making his explanations confusing. And there were critical typos on his final.

Fwiw I finished top 15% at UCH, one of my two Bs came from Leo's tax class. And I studied harder for this class than any other.

seamus86
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby seamus86 » Wed Apr 17, 2013 7:48 pm

kapital98 wrote:"Policy" is a rather vague and misleading area. If you want to do serious policy analysis, get a degree in political science, economics, statistics, accounting, or something similar. If you want a graduate degree think about getting a Masters of Public Administration.

There are almost no jobs for policy. Very little of the law is policy based (policy is not law). It would be significantly better to get a degree that teaches you quantitative analysis than something that gives you a jack-of-all-trades education in law.

There are a small minority of jobs that could be considered policy if you don't mind working for public interest groups. It's not anything like discussing an article in The Economist though :|

The courtroom is one of the last places policy is relevant. It's on the bottom of the list of what's important (Constitution, Statutes, Common Law, ..., ..., Policy). From personal experience in the courtroom, "science" is often admitted even though it has never been peer reviewed and is flat out wrong. Most lawyers don't know basic statistics.

And Hastings? You're not going to find any prestigious policy jobs from Hastings. Once again, your only realistic shot is working at a small public interest firm (ex: LGBT advocacy).

I know this is very pessimistic. I love policy. If I could talk about Law & Econ every day I would be in heaven. I wish law school had more of it. But it doesn't. The law is 99% statutes and court interpretation of the statutes. Even if it doesn't make sense, or is scientifically wrong, precedent beats policy almost every time.


Aye, that all makes sense. I suppose "statutory law" and "government law" would perhaps fit my intention better than my vague use of "policy." The Legislation Clinic sounds quite interesting to me, but I have no idea if it's considered a good match with Hastings' strengths, nor do I have a lot of faith in it resulting in any great chance in employment in that realm of law, policy, or whatever we want to call it. I'd think that regulatory work may have some intersection here, although as you mentioned that's likely a rosy view of law that gives too much privilege to statute over precedent. Anyway, In a time of dismal employment outlooks, I imagine that area is especially dreary. I'd certainly consider it essential to have a serious focus on a second concentration, such as IP, Int'l Law, something along those lines.

hiima3L
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby hiima3L » Wed Apr 17, 2013 8:53 pm

seamus86 wrote:
kapital98 wrote:"Policy" is a rather vague and misleading area. If you want to do serious policy analysis, get a degree in political science, economics, statistics, accounting, or something similar. If you want a graduate degree think about getting a Masters of Public Administration.

There are almost no jobs for policy. Very little of the law is policy based (policy is not law). It would be significantly better to get a degree that teaches you quantitative analysis than something that gives you a jack-of-all-trades education in law.

There are a small minority of jobs that could be considered policy if you don't mind working for public interest groups. It's not anything like discussing an article in The Economist though :|

The courtroom is one of the last places policy is relevant. It's on the bottom of the list of what's important (Constitution, Statutes, Common Law, ..., ..., Policy). From personal experience in the courtroom, "science" is often admitted even though it has never been peer reviewed and is flat out wrong. Most lawyers don't know basic statistics.

And Hastings? You're not going to find any prestigious policy jobs from Hastings. Once again, your only realistic shot is working at a small public interest firm (ex: LGBT advocacy).

I know this is very pessimistic. I love policy. If I could talk about Law & Econ every day I would be in heaven. I wish law school had more of it. But it doesn't. The law is 99% statutes and court interpretation of the statutes. Even if it doesn't make sense, or is scientifically wrong, precedent beats policy almost every time.


Aye, that all makes sense. I suppose "statutory law" and "government law" would perhaps fit my intention better than my vague use of "policy." The Legislation Clinic sounds quite interesting to me, but I have no idea if it's considered a good match with Hastings' strengths, nor do I have a lot of faith in it resulting in any great chance in employment in that realm of law, policy, or whatever we want to call it. I'd think that regulatory work may have some intersection here, although as you mentioned that's likely a rosy view of law that gives too much privilege to statute over precedent. Anyway, In a time of dismal employment outlooks, I imagine that area is especially dreary. I'd certainly consider it essential to have a serious focus on a second concentration, such as IP, Int'l Law, something along those lines.


I assure you that the classes you take will have little to no outcome on your job prospects, so, I wouldn't focus on a school's curriculum in making your decision.

onionskin
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby onionskin » Wed Apr 17, 2013 8:56 pm

hiima3L wrote:I assure you that the classes you take will have little to no outcome on your job prospects, so, I wouldn't focus on a school's curriculum in making your decision.


Wait seriously? Surely they will influence your internship roles which usually has some bearing on your final job (if you get one)

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lisavj
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby lisavj » Wed Apr 17, 2013 8:59 pm

onionskin wrote:
hiima3L wrote:I assure you that the classes you take will have little to no outcome on your job prospects, so, I wouldn't focus on a school's curriculum in making your decision.


Wait seriously? Surely they will influence your internship roles which usually has some bearing on your final job (if you get one)

No. Your grades will determine internships. I got patent offers and my science background is zero but my grades rocked. Also my stat class was tax.

seamus86
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby seamus86 » Wed Apr 17, 2013 9:31 pm

lisavj wrote:
onionskin wrote:
hiima3L wrote:I assure you that the classes you take will have little to no outcome on your job prospects, so, I wouldn't focus on a school's curriculum in making your decision.


Wait seriously? Surely they will influence your internship roles which usually has some bearing on your final job (if you get one)

No. Your grades will determine internships. I got patent offers and my science background is zero but my grades rocked. Also my stat class was tax.


Thanks guys...that's interesting to hear. While I knew that GPA was the dominant factor, I assumed that your curriculum had a serious effect as well.

I'm quickly learning that the only real assumption I should hold on to is my ignorance of all things LS related!

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kapital98
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby kapital98 » Wed Apr 17, 2013 9:55 pm

seamus86 wrote:Thanks guys...that's interesting to hear. While I knew that GPA was the dominant factor, I assumed that your curriculum had a serious effect as well.

I'm quickly learning that the only real assumption I should hold on to is my ignorance of all things LS related!


Hastings may give you a decent shot at state level regulatory agencies. I've heard landing a federal job is the PI equivalent of biglaw. You should ask someone else about that.

Take administrative law classes. It will not have an impact on employment. But it will have an impact on how much you enjoy law school. Take classes that interest you.

How much interest you have in particular classes may, but not necessarily, indicate how much you like the field. The best indication of if you will like the field is an internship. However, it's much easier to dabble in different subjects by taking classes than internships. You get to take ~25 classes in law school but only 2 internships. Take this with a huge grain of salt. I love criminal law but found "Criminal Law" to be incredibly boring (but really liked "Criminal Procedure" and "Evidence").

hiima3L
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby hiima3L » Thu Apr 18, 2013 10:26 am

onionskin wrote:
hiima3L wrote:I assure you that the classes you take will have little to no outcome on your job prospects, so, I wouldn't focus on a school's curriculum in making your decision.


Wait seriously? Surely they will influence your internship roles which usually has some bearing on your final job (if you get one)


I think the only way they can affect job prospects is they can demonstrate you're really gung-ho about something. Employers like seeing that, but they like seeing good grades way, way, way more.

But you can take plenty of relevant classes and do relevant internships at any school.

Civic Duty
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby Civic Duty » Sun May 12, 2013 11:43 pm

Can someone tell me what going through the LEOP as a 1L is like? Do the students in this program form a bond? How much extra time does the program take i.e. Saturday classes? How do you get feedback from the 1st assignment?

I also have a general question. What is the student culture like at Hastings for example is wearing jeans to class the norm?

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Lasers
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby Lasers » Mon May 13, 2013 1:36 am

Civic Duty wrote:I also have a general question. What is the student culture like at Hastings for example is wearing jeans to class the norm?

jeans are strictly forbidden. the practice of law is not for animals.

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kapital98
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby kapital98 » Mon May 13, 2013 2:51 am

Civic Duty wrote:Can someone tell me what going through the LEOP as a 1L is like? Do the students in this program form a bond? How much extra time does the program take i.e. Saturday classes? How do you get feedback from the 1st assignment?

I also have a general question. What is the student culture like at Hastings for example is wearing jeans to class the norm?


I was in LEOP and think the program is very beneficial to under privileged students. I'll PM you more information.

Regarding the jeans, just where a decent pair of pants and a decent shirt. Jeans, khakis, dress pants, whatever. Same goes for a shirt. Anything short of heavy metal shirt will do just fine. Also, don't wear sweatpants or big hoodies to every class. You'll become "that" person. Basically, wear what you would have worn in college.

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shazi
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby shazi » Thu May 16, 2013 1:20 am

Hey guys. I'm newly admitted into Hastings off the wait list! I've decided to choose Hastings over SCU and Loyola. I gotta chance to read through the thread and most of my questions were answered. However, I was wondering since I have a slim to none chance of getting a spot in The Tower, is it really beneficial to find a roommate to get an apartment with? I think it would be helpful to find a fellow Hastings student to get a place with but I was hoping for some feed back on that. It would be tough for me to secure my own place without help considering I live in Orange County and am not too familiar with The City. I'm considering getting a studio in the Tenderloin which would be anywhere from 1,200 to 1,600 from what I've seen and living by myself. But I'm wondering if a better option would be to find a roommate and maybe get a place somewhere cheaper. Although it would be nice to be able to walk to class if I'm in the Tenderloin.

071816
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby 071816 » Thu May 16, 2013 1:24 am

shazi wrote:Hey guys. I'm newly admitted into Hastings off the wait list! I've decided to choose Hastings over SCU and Loyola. I gotta chance to read through the thread and most of my questions were answered. However, I was wondering since I have a slim to none chance of getting a spot in The Tower, is it really beneficial to find a roommate to get an apartment with? I think it would be helpful to find a fellow Hastings student to get a place with but I was hoping for some feed back on that. It would be tough for me to secure my own place without help considering I live in Orange County and am not too familiar with The City. I'm considering getting a studio in the Tenderloin which would be anywhere from 1,200 to 1,600 from what I've seen and living by myself. But I'm wondering if a better option would be to find a roommate and maybe get a place somewhere cheaper. Although it would be nice to be able to walk to class if I'm in the Tenderloin.

A better option would probably be to just not go to Hastings at sticker.

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DildaMan
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby DildaMan » Thu May 16, 2013 1:47 am

Lasers wrote:
Civic Duty wrote:
I also have a general question. What is the student culture like at Hastings for example is wearing jeans to class the norm?


jeans are strictly forbidden. the practice of law is not for animals.


It's the same as undergrad. I wore sweatpants most of the second semester. I'm pretty sure the dude next to me showered like twice a week.

hiima3L
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby hiima3L » Thu May 16, 2013 8:12 am

shazi wrote:Hey guys. I'm newly admitted into Hastings off the wait list! I've decided to choose Hastings over SCU and Loyola. I gotta chance to read through the thread and most of my questions were answered. However, I was wondering since I have a slim to none chance of getting a spot in The Tower, is it really beneficial to find a roommate to get an apartment with? I think it would be helpful to find a fellow Hastings student to get a place with but I was hoping for some feed back on that. It would be tough for me to secure my own place without help considering I live in Orange County and am not too familiar with The City. I'm considering getting a studio in the Tenderloin which would be anywhere from 1,200 to 1,600 from what I've seen and living by myself. But I'm wondering if a better option would be to find a roommate and maybe get a place somewhere cheaper. Although it would be nice to be able to walk to class if I'm in the Tenderloin.


My first piece of advice is to not go to UCH. I assure you it is not a good decision. PM me if you'd like (I am class of 2012).

My second piece of advice is to look for housing ASAP. It is a nightmare finding an apt. in SF. I know tons of people who looked for 2-3 months.

But if you must go to UCH, I personally would go for the studio, but you have to make sure it's in an okay area. I lived in the Tower 1L year and the TL the rest of LS and loved it. The TL is in IMO very underrated, but there are parts of it that are absolutely horrendous. There are buildings that are downright hazardous to your health. But in the TL, like in many other parts of SF, a few blocks away can be night and day. As a general rule of thumb, the closer to Van Ness and California you go in the TL, the nicer it is, but between Hyde and Market and Geary is pretty sketchy and I would avoid it.

If you are looking for under $1,200, you're going to have to find roommates. Add in an additional $100 for commuting if you can't walk. And also be aware that some parts of SF can take forever to get to/from even though it's only a few miles away. The Richmond is a wonderful place to live (I crashed at my friends' place 1L summer out there), but it often takes 30mins to an hour on the bus to/from UCH.

You shouldn't rule out living in Oakland either. If I ever moved back to the Bay, I'd move there.

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shazi
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby shazi » Thu May 16, 2013 1:20 pm

hiima3L wrote:
shazi wrote:Hey guys. I'm newly admitted into Hastings off the wait list! I've decided to choose Hastings over SCU and Loyola. I gotta chance to read through the thread and most of my questions were answered. However, I was wondering since I have a slim to none chance of getting a spot in The Tower, is it really beneficial to find a roommate to get an apartment with? I think it would be helpful to find a fellow Hastings student to get a place with but I was hoping for some feed back on that. It would be tough for me to secure my own place without help considering I live in Orange County and am not too familiar with The City. I'm considering getting a studio in the Tenderloin which would be anywhere from 1,200 to 1,600 from what I've seen and living by myself. But I'm wondering if a better option would be to find a roommate and maybe get a place somewhere cheaper. Although it would be nice to be able to walk to class if I'm in the Tenderloin.


My first piece of advice is to not go to UCH. I assure you it is not a good decision. PM me if you'd like (I am class of 2012).

My second piece of advice is to look for housing ASAP. It is a nightmare finding an apt. in SF. I know tons of people who looked for 2-3 months.

But if you must go to UCH, I personally would go for the studio, but you have to make sure it's in an okay area. I lived in the Tower 1L year and the TL the rest of LS and loved it. The TL is in IMO very underrated, but there are parts of it that are absolutely horrendous. There are buildings that are downright hazardous to your health. But in the TL, like in many other parts of SF, a few blocks away can be night and day. As a general rule of thumb, the closer to Van Ness and California you go in the TL, the nicer it is, but between Hyde and Market and Geary is pretty sketchy and I would avoid it.

If you are looking for under $1,200, you're going to have to find roommates. Add in an additional $100 for commuting if you can't walk. And also be aware that some parts of SF can take forever to get to/from even though it's only a few miles away. The Richmond is a wonderful place to live (I crashed at my friends' place 1L summer out there), but it often takes 30mins to an hour on the bus to/from UCH.

You shouldn't rule out living in Oakland either. If I ever moved back to the Bay, I'd move there.


Ya I totally understand why I shouldn't go to UCH but I'm going. I have generous/loving parents which helps alleviate the risk. For 1L I would want to avoid a long commute if possible so Im favoring a TL studio but I might need to crash on someone's couch for a while so I can compare all the buildings.

Pansy from housing did say she would give alternative housing options for those who can't get into the Tower. I was wondering if I should wait for her to get back to me in two weeks or just find a place on my own ASAP?

hiima3L
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby hiima3L » Fri May 17, 2013 10:12 am

Don't rely on Pansy for housing. SF housing is awful.

I would recommend living in the TL/somewhere walkable or right by a BART stop. Otherwise you'll have to rely on MUNI and, well, you'll see how that is.

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unclepete
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby unclepete » Fri May 17, 2013 11:20 am

onionskin wrote:I looked it up the other day and Humboldt County DA's office is hiring ADAs at all levels. Looks like going rural is the only way forward.


Born and raised in Humboldt. DA's office would be pretty miserable there these days, considering the insurmountable drug problems.




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