UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

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ilovesf
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby ilovesf » Wed Sep 05, 2012 12:36 am

Lasers wrote:
hiima3L wrote:It is very, very bad. Ludicrously bad. I know maybe a dozen people with good paying jobs lined up, almost all of which were tippy top of the class (10% or so). There are a few other DA/PD types who are working at unpaid jobs. Almost all of my friends feel completely fucked right now. A few are in their 30s and are now forced to move back in with mom and dad.

TL;DR Don't go to Hastings.

i have to second this.

i know it's not what most want to hear, but if you aren't in the top 10%, you have a slim chance at a good job. i know many students that did great first year (just outside top 15%) who have just struck out at OCI.

Yeah, fuck that. I am in the top 12% and LR and I most likely struck out. :|

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Lasers
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby Lasers » Wed Sep 05, 2012 12:53 am

ilovesf wrote:
Lasers wrote:
hiima3L wrote:It is very, very bad. Ludicrously bad. I know maybe a dozen people with good paying jobs lined up, almost all of which were tippy top of the class (10% or so). There are a few other DA/PD types who are working at unpaid jobs. Almost all of my friends feel completely fucked right now. A few are in their 30s and are now forced to move back in with mom and dad.

TL;DR Don't go to Hastings.

i have to second this.

i know it's not what most want to hear, but if you aren't in the top 10%, you have a slim chance at a good job. i know many students that did great first year (just outside top 15%) who have just struck out at OCI.

Yeah, fuck that. I am in the top 12% and LR and I most likely struck out. :|

it ain't over 'till it's over.

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a male human
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby a male human » Wed Sep 05, 2012 1:05 am

Why to firms interview people in the top 30% if they know they probably aren't going to hire them?

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ilovesf
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby ilovesf » Wed Sep 05, 2012 1:09 am

a male human wrote:Why to firms interview people in the top 30% if they know they probably aren't going to hire them?

they're assholes

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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby a male human » Wed Sep 05, 2012 1:17 am

ilovesf wrote:
a male human wrote:Why to firms interview people in the top 30% if they know they probably aren't going to hire them?

they're assholes

same with all the people who instill hope by downplaying the actual requirements

"oh, yea, if you're in the top... 35%... then you're all set"
"if you fill your resume with extracurricular activities 1, 2 and 3, it will look really good!!!"
"absolutely! i'll forward your resume to our biglaw hiring committee even though your gpa isn't even listed. good luck~"

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SaintsTheMetal
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby SaintsTheMetal » Wed Sep 05, 2012 1:54 am

Ouch, I'm sorry guys. Thank you for being brutally honest about the school though. I think I'm gonna have to take it off the list even though it was pretty much one of my favorites being from the bay :|

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ilovesf
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby ilovesf » Wed Sep 05, 2012 1:57 am

SaintsTheMetal wrote:Ouch, I'm sorry guys. Thank you for being brutally honest about the school though. I think I'm gonna have to take it off the list even though it was pretty much one of my favorites being from the bay :|

What are your other options?

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SaintsTheMetal
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby SaintsTheMetal » Wed Sep 05, 2012 2:16 am

ilovesf wrote:
SaintsTheMetal wrote:Ouch, I'm sorry guys. Thank you for being brutally honest about the school though. I think I'm gonna have to take it off the list even though it was pretty much one of my favorites being from the bay :|

What are your other options?


Just applying right now, but EDed Penn and applying to mostly t14. Splitter though so Berkeley/Stanford are probably out. Would love to get back to the bay to work, but it seems like Hastings doesn't even offer scholarships large enough to make the cost there worth it

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ilovesf
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby ilovesf » Wed Sep 05, 2012 2:22 am

SaintsTheMetal wrote:
ilovesf wrote:
SaintsTheMetal wrote:Ouch, I'm sorry guys. Thank you for being brutally honest about the school though. I think I'm gonna have to take it off the list even though it was pretty much one of my favorites being from the bay :|

What are your other options?


Just applying right now, but EDed Penn and applying to mostly t14. Splitter though so Berkeley/Stanford are probably out. Would love to get back to the bay to work, but it seems like Hastings doesn't even offer scholarships large enough to make the cost there worth it

Oh, if you're looking at T-14 there is no way you should be considering UCH.

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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby a male human » Wed Sep 05, 2012 2:29 am

You should still apply :D

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OneMoreLawHopeful
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby OneMoreLawHopeful » Wed Sep 05, 2012 2:48 am

Lasers wrote:i have to second this.

i know it's not what most want to hear, but if you aren't in the top 10%, you have a slim chance at a good job. i know many students that did great first year (just outside top 15%) who have just struck out at OCI.


I don't know what to think right now.

On the one hand, yes, it's clear that people outside the top 15% didn't do well at OCI unless they had something else going for them (IP, Tax, willing to work in Iowa, etc.).

Yet on the other hand, I have access to a lot of 3Ls through student orgs I'm in, and it seems like the overwhelming majority of students end up finding okay work their 2L summer (not GREAT work, but definitely work in the legal field).

I just don't know what to think. I believe that if you want to be a lawyer, not for the $$$, but to actually practice law, that Hastings isn't that bad a shot. If you're willing to make $40-60k and just go straight for income based repayment on your loans (because you got them through the gov't, right? RIGHT?), Hastings is pretty good, the students are nice, the profs are great, and so forth.

But yes, if you want to make $160k and that's the only reason you want to be an attorney...go somewhere else.

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Lasers
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby Lasers » Wed Sep 05, 2012 4:25 am

OneMoreLawHopeful wrote:Yet on the other hand, I have access to a lot of 3Ls through student orgs I'm in, and it seems like the overwhelming majority of students end up finding okay work their 2L summer (not GREAT work, but definitely work in the legal field).

finding anything legal for 2L summer isn't the point (that's 1L summer); the worth of a 2L summer job is finding something that can actually lead to a job after graduation. from my sources, TONS of 3L's, some of whom are in the top third or better have nothing lined up at all. the employment numbers don't lie, either. they are startling. the numbers are so troubling it's probably why so many rising 2L's transferred.

apollo2015
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby apollo2015 » Wed Sep 05, 2012 11:19 am

SaintsTheMetal wrote:Just applying right now, but EDed Penn and applying to mostly t14. Splitter though so Berkeley/Stanford are probably out. Would love to get back to the bay to work, but it seems like Hastings doesn't even offer scholarships large enough to make the cost there worth it


Which regions are you most interested in working in?

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ilovesf
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby ilovesf » Wed Sep 05, 2012 11:24 am

Lasers wrote:
OneMoreLawHopeful wrote:Yet on the other hand, I have access to a lot of 3Ls through student orgs I'm in, and it seems like the overwhelming majority of students end up finding okay work their 2L summer (not GREAT work, but definitely work in the legal field).

finding anything legal for 2L summer isn't the point (that's 1L summer); the worth of a 2L summer job is finding something that can actually lead to a job after graduation. from my sources, TONS of 3L's, some of whom are in the top third or better have nothing lined up at all. the employment numbers don't lie, either. they are startling. the numbers are so troubling it's probably why so many rising 2L's transferred.

Yeah, people don't care about landing SAs just as a 2L summer job; it's about how it leads to long term employment. I'm not worried about finding something for 2L summer. I am worried about getting a full time job.

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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby OneMoreLawHopeful » Wed Sep 05, 2012 11:38 am

ilovesf wrote:
Lasers wrote:finding anything legal for 2L summer isn't the point (that's 1L summer); the worth of a 2L summer job is finding something that can actually lead to a job after graduation. from my sources, TONS of 3L's, some of whom are in the top third or better have nothing lined up at all. the employment numbers don't lie, either. they are startling. the numbers are so troubling it's probably why so many rising 2L's transferred.

Yeah, people don't care about landing SAs just as a 2L summer job; it's about how it leads to long term employment. I'm not worried about finding something for 2L summer. I am worried about getting a full time job.


I get what you guys are saying, but I think it's based on a misconception that's propagated by websites like TLS.

The fact of the matter is that in the height of the market (people who were 2L summers in 2007, reflected in the class of 2008 statistics), less than 24% of all law students ended up with jobs that paid $160k. The majority of law students have always gone on to work for not-big-law, and the whole "2L summer is for finding a job after graduation" really only reflects biglaw hiring.

If you look at the statistics for Hastings grads ( --LinkRemoved-- ), we see that a majority of the graduating class of 2011 (207/411) ended up working in full-time long-term JD required/preferred non-solo-practitioner jobs (219 Full Time Long Term - 7 non-JD-preferred - 5 solo practitioners = 207). So even if we take the most pessimistic view of employment statistics (we assume that part-time or short-term jobs are worthless, and that no one wants to be a solo practitioner), the "average" Hastings student still ends up in a job that makes productive use of their JD.

This matches the experience of the 3Ls I know. A few had biglaw summers, but many more worked for firms in the 2-10 attorney range. Because of the small nature of these firms, it's usually impossible to make a job offer straight out of a 2L summer, but they also have their foot in the door and have some work experience going forward.

All I'm saying is that, if you want to actually practice law, you've got even odds of using your JD as a Hastings grad. But if you take the view that the ONLY reason to get a JD is to do biglaw, yeah, definitely go somewhere else. Because places like TLS tell us "BIGLAW OR YOU'RE SCREWED" over and over again, it's easy to lose sight of the way the legal job market has always operated, with most JDs never going into biglaw.

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kapital98
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby kapital98 » Wed Sep 05, 2012 12:11 pm

ilovesf wrote:
Lasers wrote:
OneMoreLawHopeful wrote:Yet on the other hand, I have access to a lot of 3Ls through student orgs I'm in, and it seems like the overwhelming majority of students end up finding okay work their 2L summer (not GREAT work, but definitely work in the legal field).

finding anything legal for 2L summer isn't the point (that's 1L summer); the worth of a 2L summer job is finding something that can actually lead to a job after graduation. from my sources, TONS of 3L's, some of whom are in the top third or better have nothing lined up at all. the employment numbers don't lie, either. they are startling. the numbers are so troubling it's probably why so many rising 2L's transferred.

Yeah, people don't care about landing SAs just as a 2L summer job; it's about how it leads to long term employment. I'm not worried about finding something for 2L summer. I am worried about getting a full time job.


This is what I'm worried about. I don't expect being paid 160K. However, it would be nice to have a firm offer in hand before graduation. That way there is a smooth transition between school, the bar exam, and employment.

I know plenty of lawyers who had to wait 6-12 months to find a job. I do not want to be one of those lawyers. It would be financially difficult and generally humiliating.

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SaintsTheMetal
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby SaintsTheMetal » Wed Sep 05, 2012 12:37 pm

apollo2015 wrote:
SaintsTheMetal wrote:Just applying right now, but EDed Penn and applying to mostly t14. Splitter though so Berkeley/Stanford are probably out. Would love to get back to the bay to work, but it seems like Hastings doesn't even offer scholarships large enough to make the cost there worth it


Which regions are you most interested in working in?


The bay would definitely be my top choice, LA probably 2nd choice.

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Mick Haller
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby Mick Haller » Wed Sep 05, 2012 1:28 pm

kapital98 wrote:This is what I'm worried about. I don't expect being paid 160K. However, it would be nice to have a firm offer in hand before graduation. That way there is a smooth transition between school, the bar exam, and employment.

I know plenty of lawyers who had to wait 6-12 months to find a job. I do not want to be one of those lawyers. It would be financially difficult and generally humiliating.


it's possible, but a few observations: (1) only about half of Hastings classes have permanent offers at graduation (maybe even less now), (2) many employers are not interested in hiring before bar results are known, (3) the bar exam is extremely stressful, and while a job offer may serve as extra motivation, it can also add even more stress and hysteria to the experience.

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Mick Haller
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby Mick Haller » Wed Sep 05, 2012 6:23 pm

Lifted from another thread, a quote from a recent Paul Campos paper:

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=191548&start=50

Based on the above definitions, here are estimates of what percentage of the graduating classes of 2011 at the nation’s 20 highest-ranked law schools had undesirable employment outcomes as of February 15, 2012:

Yale: 18.4%
Stanford: 7.9%
Harvard: 17.9%
Columbia: 16.0%
Chicago: 23.6%
NYU: 23.6%
Penn: 17.0%
Berkeley: 19.2%
Duke: 22.5%
Michigan: 26.5%
Virginia: 28.1%
Northwestern: 22.8%
Cornell: 28.8%
Georgetown: 31.3%
Vanderbilt: 34.9%
Texas: 42.0%
UCLA: 47.0%
USC: 42.9%

George Washington: 44.3%
Minnesota: 66.3% ..."


If UCLA and USC students have 40-50% chance of an undesirable outcome, then Hastings is probably more like 50-70%. Those numbers should give anyone pause about the California legal market in general: two top 20 schools with under- and un-employment rates of nearly 50%. What does that say about the odds out of Davis, Hastings, Loyola, Pepperdine, etc.?

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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby cahwc12 » Thu Sep 06, 2012 8:48 am

Mick Haller wrote:IP grads are doing substantially better. I know a few with lower grades than me who are off to six-figure jobs. FWIW I was top 15% and do not have anything lined up. I am optimistic that I'll find something, but I doubt it will pay much more than $50-60k or so. Which is fine by me.


Is there any way you could you put me in touch with one of them? This is what I plan to focus on in law school, and knowing that I could go to school in the area I want to practice AND get potentially a decent scholarship to boot, is making UCHastings look more attractive by the minute.

If IP is doing disproportionately well, what would you say the employment prospects are with IP vs non-IP at the school?

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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby lisavj » Thu Sep 06, 2012 1:53 pm

cahwc12 wrote:
Mick Haller wrote:IP grads are doing substantially better. I know a few with lower grades than me who are off to six-figure jobs. FWIW I was top 15% and do not have anything lined up. I am optimistic that I'll find something, but I doubt it will pay much more than $50-60k or so. Which is fine by me.


Is there any way you could you put me in touch with one of them? This is what I plan to focus on in law school, and knowing that I could go to school in the area I want to practice AND get potentially a decent scholarship to boot, is making UCHastings look more attractive by the minute.

If IP is doing disproportionately well, what would you say the employment prospects are with IP vs non-IP at the school?

Got in touch with two of my IP oriented friends. PM me your email or phone and I'll connect you.

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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby a male human » Thu Sep 06, 2012 1:54 pm

cahwc12 wrote:
Mick Haller wrote:IP grads are doing substantially better. I know a few with lower grades than me who are off to six-figure jobs. FWIW I was top 15% and do not have anything lined up. I am optimistic that I'll find something, but I doubt it will pay much more than $50-60k or so. Which is fine by me.


Is there any way you could you put me in touch with one of them? This is what I plan to focus on in law school, and knowing that I could go to school in the area I want to practice AND get potentially a decent scholarship to boot, is making UCHastings look more attractive by the minute.

If IP is doing disproportionately well, what would you say the employment prospects are with IP vs non-IP at the school?

Holy shit how did you get 55k from Hastings? Does that include grants? I thought the scholly limit was 10k.

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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby skri65 » Wed Sep 12, 2012 10:37 am

lisavj wrote:
cahwc12 wrote:
Mick Haller wrote:IP grads are doing substantially better. I know a few with lower grades than me who are off to six-figure jobs. FWIW I was top 15% and do not have anything lined up. I am optimistic that I'll find something, but I doubt it will pay much more than $50-60k or so. Which is fine by me.


Is there any way you could you put me in touch with one of them? This is what I plan to focus on in law school, and knowing that I could go to school in the area I want to practice AND get potentially a decent scholarship to boot, is making UCHastings look more attractive by the minute.

If IP is doing disproportionately well, what would you say the employment prospects are with IP vs non-IP at the school?

Got in touch with two of my IP oriented friends. PM me your email or phone and I'll connect you.


I'm in the same situation. I have a MSCS and want to do patent law, and am considering lower-tier scores with the hope that the technical background will give me enough of a boost to get a good job after LS.

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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby a male human » Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:22 pm

skri65 wrote:
lisavj wrote:
cahwc12 wrote:
Mick Haller wrote:IP grads are doing substantially better. I know a few with lower grades than me who are off to six-figure jobs. FWIW I was top 15% and do not have anything lined up. I am optimistic that I'll find something, but I doubt it will pay much more than $50-60k or so. Which is fine by me.


Is there any way you could you put me in touch with one of them? This is what I plan to focus on in law school, and knowing that I could go to school in the area I want to practice AND get potentially a decent scholarship to boot, is making UCHastings look more attractive by the minute.

If IP is doing disproportionately well, what would you say the employment prospects are with IP vs non-IP at the school?

Got in touch with two of my IP oriented friends. PM me your email or phone and I'll connect you.


I'm in the same situation. I have a MSCS and want to do patent law, and am considering lower-tier scores with the hope that the technical background will give me enough of a boost to get a good job after LS.

What do you mean by scores?

skri65
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby skri65 » Thu Sep 13, 2012 11:43 am

Schools. Sorry, I meant schools.




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