UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
hiima3L
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby hiima3L » Fri Aug 17, 2012 5:07 am

ksllaw wrote:How is the cost of living for place close to campus w/ or w/o roommates?


The Tenderloin is one of the best neighborhoods in SF IMO in terms of value. You should live by campus. Wherever you live in SF, you can expect to pay $800 for a room at the least.

ksllaw
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby ksllaw » Fri Aug 17, 2012 5:55 am

hiima3L wrote:
ksllaw wrote:How is the cost of living for place close to campus w/ or w/o roommates?


The Tenderloin is one of the best neighborhoods in SF IMO in terms of value. You should live by campus. Wherever you live in SF, you can expect to pay $800 for a room at the least.



Is that a studio apartment or multi-room? I do fear the cost of living expenses in that area.

hiima3L
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby hiima3L » Fri Aug 17, 2012 10:57 am

ksllaw wrote:
hiima3L wrote:
ksllaw wrote:How is the cost of living for place close to campus w/ or w/o roommates?


The Tenderloin is one of the best neighborhoods in SF IMO in terms of value. You should live by campus. Wherever you live in SF, you can expect to pay $800 for a room at the least.



Is that a studio apartment or multi-room? I do fear the cost of living expenses in that area.


Multi-room. Studios are at least $1200+ from what I've seen.

You should fear your job prospects coming from Hastings more than the rent. It is very, very, very bad out there right now.

ksllaw
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby ksllaw » Fri Aug 17, 2012 6:34 pm

hiima3L wrote:
ksllaw wrote:
hiima3L wrote:
ksllaw wrote:How is the cost of living for place close to campus w/ or w/o roommates?


The Tenderloin is one of the best neighborhoods in SF IMO in terms of value. You should live by campus. Wherever you live in SF, you can expect to pay $800 for a room at the least.



Is that a studio apartment or multi-room? I do fear the cost of living expenses in that area.


Multi-room. Studios are at least $1200+ from what I've seen.

You should fear your job prospects coming from Hastings more than the rent. It is very, very, very bad out there right now.



Thanks, hiima.

I know it's tough all around. Last year's hiring cycle was considered the worst in at least two decades.

I had a college dormmate attend UC Hastings and graduate in 2006 and is employed as a firm associate in Los Angeles County. But, he got in prior to the 2007 economic downturn.

I have family in SF and had considered Hastings as an option a year ago. But I'm not sure the out-of-state tuition + living costs + job market, etc. would be worth it unless I had a scholarship for a significant amount of the tuition.

For a semi-random question, what is the law library like there? Is it a crowded place to study?

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kapital98
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby kapital98 » Sat Aug 18, 2012 4:45 pm

ksllaw wrote:Thanks, hiima.

I know it's tough all around. Last year's hiring cycle was considered the worst in at least two decades.

I had a college dormmate attend UC Hastings and graduate in 2006 and is employed as a firm associate in Los Angeles County. But, he got in prior to the 2007 economic downturn.

I have family in SF and had considered Hastings as an option a year ago. But I'm not sure the out-of-state tuition + living costs + job market, etc. would be worth it unless I had a scholarship for a significant amount of the tuition.

For a semi-random question, what is the law library like there? Is it a crowded place to study?


You will only have to pay out-state tuition for one year. It's an extra ~$5-7K (less than previous years because of the way they increased tuition).

There are two libraries. The "Gold Room" is a library that's essentially a big study room with many closed rooms for group studying. It's the nicest place on campus and where OCI is held. It's in the same building as all of your classes. This makes it very convenient to study in between classes for off campus students.

The real law library is 3 stories in the administrative building. It also has many independent study rooms. It's a pretty typical law library. With the possible exception of finals, there is always a place to study.

tomwatts
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby tomwatts » Sun Aug 19, 2012 10:05 am

If anyone has Morris Ratner for Civ Pro, PM me. I had him last year when he was a visiting professor elsewhere and got the highest possible grade in his class, and I can give you outlines and stuff so that you don't have to reinvent the wheel. He appears to have completely reformatted the course for Hastings (we only had one semester of Civ Pro, but it looks as though you have two), but it might be helpful to see what last year's course looked like anyway.

lowereastside
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby lowereastside » Sun Aug 19, 2012 5:07 pm

I had hillman for civpro. I used two supplements: the E&E and the Emmanuels. The Emmanuels was more comprehensive in terms of covering all the different rules, but I also liked using the E&E because it gave me a deeper understanding of the rules in practice. Honestly though, the thing I found most helpful was marking up the Subrin(?) supplement that you have to buy with your textbook, marking off all the different FRCP rules that you cover during class. Its like having a built in checklist when its time for the test.

This is coming from someone who did badly during her take home exam, but was able to course correct for the final. (Last semester, Hillman had a joint exam with our torts professor that happened a few weeks before her actual final, that counted for 30-40% of our grade. Oh memories)

I am also happy to talk about any of the other professors I had, if there is any overlap: Lefstin - contracts; jung - torts; crawford - property; little - crim; leshy - conlaw.

apollo2015
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby apollo2015 » Sun Aug 19, 2012 7:35 pm

Lowereastside, what would you recommend doing differently if you were to do the take home test again? What did you change before the final exam? Thank you for the tips!

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ilovesf
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby ilovesf » Sun Aug 19, 2012 7:36 pm

lowereastside wrote:I had hillman for civpro. I used two supplements: the E&E and the Emmanuels. The Emmanuels was more comprehensive in terms of covering all the different rules, but I also liked using the E&E because it gave me a deeper understanding of the rules in practice. Honestly though, the thing I found most helpful was marking up the Subrin(?) supplement that you have to buy with your textbook, marking off all the different FRCP rules that you cover during class. Its like having a built in checklist when its time for the test.

This is coming from someone who did badly during her take home exam, but was able to course correct for the final. (Last semester, Hillman had a joint exam with our torts professor that happened a few weeks before her actual final, that counted for 30-40% of our grade. Oh memories)

I am also happy to talk about any of the other professors I had, if there is any overlap: Lefstin - contracts; jung - torts; crawford - property; little - crim; leshy - conlaw.

a joint test? that sounds awful. like law school isn't annoying enough without those shenanigans.

lowereastside
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby lowereastside » Mon Aug 20, 2012 9:27 pm

apollo2015 wrote:Lowereastside, what would you recommend doing differently if you were to do the take home test again? What did you change before the final exam? Thank you for the tips!


I'm not sure Hillman is doing the performance exam style take home, since I don't think you guys have the same torts professor that we had. But if she does decide to do that type of thing again...

The biggest course correction I made in the final was to cite to the FRCP rule or to case law when backing up my arguments. One of the problems I found with the take home was that there was a word count, so the first thing I took out of my exam to get under the word count was to cut/shorten my citations. Don't do that with Hillman. You obviously don't need to blue book it, but she wants to see you cite to a line of jurisdiction cases when talking about jurisdiction, or cite to FRCP 12(b)(6) when talking about motions to dismiss for failure to state a claim.

I think she actually breaks your score down to like, quality of argument for each legal issue, quality of authority/citations used, and then a catch-all category for "coherence/writing quality." Someone else with a better memory of Hillman's grading breakdown should chime in though.

I also just completely missed an issue in the take home exam, and lost a ton of points as a result, so for the final itself, I very much kitchen-sinked it. If it had what I considered even a slight relation to the topic at hand, I talked about it. And made sure to cite which case or FRCP I got it from. But you do have to navigate the fine line between being comprehensive, and wasting time. She's not going to take points off for talking about irrelevant things, but she will deem certain things irrelevant, and won't award you points. That is time better spent elsewhere.

Also, don't do this for a take home with a word count. Another reason I did badly on the take home was because i wasn't concise. As a result, I ended up spending 30 minutes of valuable time cutting my final answer down to size. Plus, since I was wordy, I didn't have as much opportunity to talk about some issues, which made me lose even more points.

Also, and this is a tiny point, she does actually correct for spelling/grammar/etc on your exam. So if you have a chance, save a few minutes to spell check everything. I have no idea if it actually affects your grade or not, but its embarrassing to have her correct the same spelling mistake over and over again!

hiima3L
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby hiima3L » Tue Aug 21, 2012 2:56 am

ksllaw wrote:Thanks, hiima.

I know it's tough all around. Last year's hiring cycle was considered the worst in at least two decades.

I had a college dormmate attend UC Hastings and graduate in 2006 and is employed as a firm associate in Los Angeles County. But, he got in prior to the 2007 economic downturn.

I have family in SF and had considered Hastings as an option a year ago. But I'm not sure the out-of-state tuition + living costs + job market, etc. would be worth it unless I had a scholarship for a significant amount of the tuition.

For a semi-random question, what is the law library like there? Is it a crowded place to study?


Good god if you're paying outta state tuition, definitely don't bother paying anywhere near sticker.

The library is great. It was renovated in 2008 (07?) and was the only place I really studied on campus. I love the big tables and (relatively) comfy chairs.

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kapital98
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby kapital98 » Tue Aug 21, 2012 2:05 pm

hiima3L wrote:
ksllaw wrote:Thanks, hiima.

I know it's tough all around. Last year's hiring cycle was considered the worst in at least two decades.

I had a college dormmate attend UC Hastings and graduate in 2006 and is employed as a firm associate in Los Angeles County. But, he got in prior to the 2007 economic downturn.

I have family in SF and had considered Hastings as an option a year ago. But I'm not sure the out-of-state tuition + living costs + job market, etc. would be worth it unless I had a scholarship for a significant amount of the tuition.

For a semi-random question, what is the law library like there? Is it a crowded place to study?


Good god if you're paying outta state tuition, definitely don't bother paying anywhere near sticker.

The library is great. It was renovated in 2008 (07?) and was the only place I really studied on campus. I love the big tables and (relatively) comfy chairs.


Hastings is slowly closing the gap on in-state/out-state tuition. It is now $6,000 (--LinkRemoved--). I paid an extra 10K last year for out-state.

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cahwc12
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby cahwc12 » Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 pm

(reposted from old thread)
How do you like it out there? I hadn't given Hastings any consideration until late but my brother and his family recently moved out to SF and now I've been looking into the school a lot more recently. How is the IP law focus there, being so close to silicon valley?

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a male human
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby a male human » Mon Sep 03, 2012 3:07 pm

cahwc12 wrote:(reposted from old thread)
How do you like it out there? I hadn't given Hastings any consideration until late but my brother and his family recently moved out to SF and now I've been looking into the school a lot more recently. How is the IP law focus there, being so close to silicon valley?

I hate how we're so isolated without any other schools attached to it like other UC campuses, yet it's as expensive or more than some private schools. The current 1L class was supposedly cut down by 20%, but I also heard there were over 400 students in the class. I heard the job rate upon grad is ~50%. I don't like most of the professors. The school does try hard to help out its students in other ways--housing staff, career office, financial aid, records office are all people you can rely on for the most part.

IP is actually picking up steam at the school. There is a new IP clinic that opened this year, run by Professor Feldman. She is a very active member of the faculty who heads a lot of IP initiatives. We have an IP club that's growing every year, and we also have a fairly new journal for those who are interested in tech and/or IP (it is lowly ranked, though).

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ilovesf
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby ilovesf » Mon Sep 03, 2012 3:13 pm

a male human wrote:
cahwc12 wrote:(reposted from old thread)
How do you like it out there? I hadn't given Hastings any consideration until late but my brother and his family recently moved out to SF and now I've been looking into the school a lot more recently. How is the IP law focus there, being so close to silicon valley?

I hate how we're so isolated without any other schools attached to it like other UC campuses, yet it's as expensive or more than some private schools. The current 1L class was supposedly cut down by 20%, but I also heard there were over 400 students in the class. I heard the job rate upon grad is ~50%. I don't like most of the professors. The school does try hard to help out its students in other ways--housing staff, career office, financial aid, records office are all people you can rely on for the most part.

IP is actually picking up steam at the school. There is a new IP clinic that opened this year, run by Professor Feldman. She is a very active member of the faculty who heads a lot of IP initiatives. We have an IP club that's growing every year, and we also have a fairly new journal for those who are interested in tech and/or IP (it is lowly ranked, though).

I haven't heard that the class is 400 people. The LWR classes are a lot smaller. There are only 8 people in the one I TA for, as opposed to around 12 last year. Overall I like UCH. I like my professors a lot actually, for the most part. The job situation sucks though, and that's really the most important thing in choosing a LS.

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OneMoreLawHopeful
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby OneMoreLawHopeful » Mon Sep 03, 2012 5:43 pm

ilovesf wrote:I haven't heard that the class is 400 people. The LWR classes are a lot smaller. There are only 8 people in the one I TA for, as opposed to around 12 last year. Overall I like UCH. I like my professors a lot actually, for the most part. The job situation sucks though, and that's really the most important thing in choosing a LS.


I agree with this. I know from orientation that there were only 4 sections instead of 5, and all the sections seem to be the same size as last year, so it's hard to believe that an extra 80 people are hiding somewhere.

I really like Hastings, and I've enjoyed my time there so far. The professors are great, the students are great, I've made great friends and I don't believe it's nearly as cut-throat as I've heard it made out to be.

The thing about the job situation is: do you really want to be a lawyer? I remember being shocked at orientation last year when the guy sitting next to me explained that he went to law school because "I had a major in theatre and didn't know what else to do." It's sad because I personally know people at Stanford who were in this same spot and made out like bandits when it comes to jobs, but at Hastings it's just not going to cut it. If you're really committed to being an attorney, I believe you'll do fine, but if you show up because you couldn't think of anything else to do, don't expect to get by.

apollo2015
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby apollo2015 » Tue Sep 04, 2012 2:08 am

My understanding is that we have ~320 students in our 1L class. In lieu of a 5th section we have a bunch of medical doctors floating around who are in our new MSL program. Its funny when the MSLs occasionally call out our professors for their lack of medical knowledge.

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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby a male human » Tue Sep 04, 2012 2:25 am

Oh OK, I must have misheard or something then.

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OneMoreLawHopeful
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby OneMoreLawHopeful » Tue Sep 04, 2012 3:52 am

a male human wrote:Oh OK, I must have misheard or something then.


In fairness, if you look at the total size of the student body, I think it's still the same as last year because they took more LLMs and started the MSL program in order to get dat tuition. It could be easily to just see the total student body size and think nothing's really changed...and to a certain extent it hasn't, they've just swapped a bunch of JD slots for the other degrees.

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cahwc12
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby cahwc12 » Tue Sep 04, 2012 10:32 am

a male human wrote:
cahwc12 wrote:(reposted from old thread)
How do you like it out there? I hadn't given Hastings any consideration until late but my brother and his family recently moved out to SF and now I've been looking into the school a lot more recently. How is the IP law focus there, being so close to silicon valley?

I hate how we're so isolated without any other schools attached to it like other UC campuses, yet it's as expensive or more than some private schools. The current 1L class was supposedly cut down by 20%, but I also heard there were over 400 students in the class. I heard the job rate upon grad is ~50%. I don't like most of the professors. The school does try hard to help out its students in other ways--housing staff, career office, financial aid, records office are all people you can rely on for the most part.

IP is actually picking up steam at the school. There is a new IP clinic that opened this year, run by Professor Feldman. She is a very active member of the faculty who heads a lot of IP initiatives. We have an IP club that's growing every year, and we also have a fairly new journal for those who are interested in tech and/or IP (it is lowly ranked, though).


Can you break down this job rate, at least anecdotally?

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kapital98
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby kapital98 » Tue Sep 04, 2012 12:21 pm

cahwc12 wrote:
a male human wrote:
cahwc12 wrote:(reposted from old thread)
How do you like it out there? I hadn't given Hastings any consideration until late but my brother and his family recently moved out to SF and now I've been looking into the school a lot more recently. How is the IP law focus there, being so close to silicon valley?

I hate how we're so isolated without any other schools attached to it like other UC campuses, yet it's as expensive or more than some private schools. The current 1L class was supposedly cut down by 20%, but I also heard there were over 400 students in the class. I heard the job rate upon grad is ~50%. I don't like most of the professors. The school does try hard to help out its students in other ways--housing staff, career office, financial aid, records office are all people you can rely on for the most part.

IP is actually picking up steam at the school. There is a new IP clinic that opened this year, run by Professor Feldman. She is a very active member of the faculty who heads a lot of IP initiatives. We have an IP club that's growing every year, and we also have a fairly new journal for those who are interested in tech and/or IP (it is lowly ranked, though).


Can you break down this job rate, at least anecdotally?


From the (semi) reliable source: --LinkRemoved--

Employed Full Time: 59.35; Unknown: 2.43; Doesn't measure people employed full time but not in a legal profession = Employment ~50%.

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a male human
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby a male human » Tue Sep 04, 2012 1:36 pm

cahwc12 wrote:
a male human wrote:
cahwc12 wrote:(reposted from old thread)
How do you like it out there? I hadn't given Hastings any consideration until late but my brother and his family recently moved out to SF and now I've been looking into the school a lot more recently. How is the IP law focus there, being so close to silicon valley?

I hate how we're so isolated without any other schools attached to it like other UC campuses, yet it's as expensive or more than some private schools. The current 1L class was supposedly cut down by 20%, but I also heard there were over 400 students in the class. I heard the job rate upon grad is ~50%. I don't like most of the professors. The school does try hard to help out its students in other ways--housing staff, career office, financial aid, records office are all people you can rely on for the most part.

IP is actually picking up steam at the school. There is a new IP clinic that opened this year, run by Professor Feldman. She is a very active member of the faculty who heads a lot of IP initiatives. We have an IP club that's growing every year, and we also have a fairly new journal for those who are interested in tech and/or IP (it is lowly ranked, though).


Can you break down this job rate, at least anecdotally?

Sure, I will try.

Anecdotally, recent grads I know have some sort of job for the most part. Out of those I know:
Three are off to big law (yeah somehow I know those people, but they are all IP people)
One is off to some firm that is not biglaw (IP)
One is off to some firm that is not law at all
One is clerking (?) at some company (IP)
One has a patent agent position (not an attorney)
Two do not have any job AFAIK. . . (one is an IP person)

As you can tell I mostly know people who are interested in IP (then again, that's a shitload of people). I've also heard from another source (current grad) about how even greater than 50% of the people he knew are left wondering what they will do after graduation. Another person told me a similar grim story.

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Mick Haller
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby Mick Haller » Tue Sep 04, 2012 2:21 pm

IP grads are doing substantially better. I know a few with lower grades than me who are off to six-figure jobs. FWIW I was top 15% and do not have anything lined up. I am optimistic that I'll find something, but I doubt it will pay much more than $50-60k or so. Which is fine by me.

hiima3L
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby hiima3L » Tue Sep 04, 2012 11:48 pm

It is very, very bad. Ludicrously bad. I know maybe a dozen people with good paying jobs lined up, almost all of which were tippy top of the class (10% or so). There are a few other DA/PD types who are working at unpaid jobs. Almost all of my friends feel completely fucked right now. A few are in their 30s and are now forced to move back in with mom and dad.

TL;DR Don't go to Hastings.

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Lasers
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby Lasers » Wed Sep 05, 2012 12:34 am

hiima3L wrote:It is very, very bad. Ludicrously bad. I know maybe a dozen people with good paying jobs lined up, almost all of which were tippy top of the class (10% or so). There are a few other DA/PD types who are working at unpaid jobs. Almost all of my friends feel completely fucked right now. A few are in their 30s and are now forced to move back in with mom and dad.

TL;DR Don't go to Hastings.

i have to second this.

i know it's not what most want to hear, but if you aren't in the top 10%, you have a slim chance at a good job. i know many students that did great first year (just outside top 15%) who have just struck out at OCI.




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