UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
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ilovesf
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby ilovesf » Thu May 24, 2012 6:34 am

Lasers wrote:
SaintsTheMetal wrote:What is the general feeling of how many people are working as an SA this summer? I would absolutely, absolutely love to live in the Bay where I grew up, but all I hear is that the norcal legal market is fucked.

I was pretty dismayed when I saw the numbers on LST for Hastings's employment.. a T1 school but with worse employment figures than many TTTs..
does it really feel accurate that barely over half of the class is getting FT legal work?

well considering not many students get biglaw SA positions 1L summer, i don't know of many people that do (i only know two people that do and one has a phd which helps hugely for IP). i can't really comment on 2L placement (which really matters) but it's probably 10-13% of the class for biglaw.

as for the employment figures...yes they are probably accurate. i don't know the job status for many 3L's, but from what i've heard, if you're at median you're pretty much fucked. unless you absolutely want norcal/CA, i would stay away from hastings (or davis) right now because the legal market blows.

I don't really know people with 1L SAs because most people I know didn't apply for any, including myself, even though I maybe had the grades to get one. I know a lot of people with awesome in-house positions with tech companies though. I guess not as preferable as SA gigs for most people, but still get paid a good amount and get interesting work. The employment figures are probably accurate. I don't think it's worse than similarly situated schools though - it's more that most schools aren't honest about their stats.

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Lasers
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby Lasers » Thu May 24, 2012 6:40 am

ilovesf wrote:
Lasers wrote:
SaintsTheMetal wrote:What is the general feeling of how many people are working as an SA this summer? I would absolutely, absolutely love to live in the Bay where I grew up, but all I hear is that the norcal legal market is fucked.

I was pretty dismayed when I saw the numbers on LST for Hastings's employment.. a T1 school but with worse employment figures than many TTTs..
does it really feel accurate that barely over half of the class is getting FT legal work?

well considering not many students get biglaw SA positions 1L summer, i don't know of many people that do (i only know two people that do and one has a phd which helps hugely for IP). i can't really comment on 2L placement (which really matters) but it's probably 10-13% of the class for biglaw.

as for the employment figures...yes they are probably accurate. i don't know the job status for many 3L's, but from what i've heard, if you're at median you're pretty much fucked. unless you absolutely want norcal/CA, i would stay away from hastings (or davis) right now because the legal market blows.

I don't really know people with 1L SAs because most people I know didn't apply for any, including myself, even though I maybe had the grades to get one. I know a lot of people with awesome in-house positions with tech companies though. I guess not as preferable as SA gigs for most people, but still get paid a good amount and get interesting work. The employment figures are probably accurate. I don't think it's worse than similarly situated schools though - it's more that most schools aren't honest about their stats.

yeah; hastings is at least is pretty honest about the reality of it all.

apollo2015
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby apollo2015 » Thu May 24, 2012 12:11 pm

ilovesf wrote:I know a lot of people with awesome in-house positions with tech companies though. I guess not as preferable as SA gigs for most people, but still get paid a good amount and get interesting work.


How obtainable are those in-house positions? Do you need to be a computer science major to get those?

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ilovesf
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby ilovesf » Thu May 24, 2012 12:15 pm

apollo2015 wrote:
ilovesf wrote:I know a lot of people with awesome in-house positions with tech companies though. I guess not as preferable as SA gigs for most people, but still get paid a good amount and get interesting work.


How obtainable are those in-house positions? Do you need to be a computer science major to get those?

Nope. If you are interested in specifics send me a PM and I can tell you more about it. They require generally good grades - my friends who got them were at least in the top 30% as far as I know (some of them I don't know their grades at all though so I have no idea), and some of them got the gigs through diversity programs.

LockBox
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby LockBox » Thu May 24, 2012 12:55 pm

I'm just a 0L here so could someone explain to me the difference between a summer in-house gig and an SA? Thanks in advance...

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ilovesf
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby ilovesf » Thu May 24, 2012 1:01 pm

LockBox wrote:I'm just a 0L here so could someone explain to me the difference between a summer in-house gig and an SA? Thanks in advance...

in-house is with a company's legal department, like apple or google or PG&E or something, and you get paid, but not as much as SAs get paid. SA is a summer associate with a law firm.

hiima3L
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby hiima3L » Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:35 am

Lasers wrote:
SaintsTheMetal wrote:What is the general feeling of how many people are working as an SA this summer? I would absolutely, absolutely love to live in the Bay where I grew up, but all I hear is that the norcal legal market is fucked.

I was pretty dismayed when I saw the numbers on LST for Hastings's employment.. a T1 school but with worse employment figures than many TTTs..
does it really feel accurate that barely over half of the class is getting FT legal work?

well considering not many students get biglaw SA positions 1L summer, i don't know of many people that do (i only know two people that do and one has a phd which helps hugely for IP). i can't really comment on 2L placement (which really matters) but it's probably 10-13% of the class for biglaw.

as for the employment figures...yes they are probably accurate (though they may have improved slightly). i don't know the job status for many 3L's, but from what i've heard, if you're at median you're pretty much fucked. unless you absolutely want norcal/CA, i would stay away from hastings (or davis) right now because the legal market blows.


It is much worse than you (2Ls and 1Ls) appreciate right now. I have dozens of friends who are top 30% (commencement brochure indicated top 30%, top 10%, top 1%, so I know for a fact what their approximate ranks are) with nothing lined up and no prospects whatsoever. If you strike out at OCI, you're pretty much fucked unless you network like crazy and strike gold and get super lucky.

I seriously don't understand how anyone thinks going to Hastings is a good decision right now. It is a huge, huge $150-180k gamble. My friends and I were discussing last night what we could do to knock sense into students walking around at admitted students day, and it seems like there is nothing that will convince people otherwise.

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Lasers
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby Lasers » Fri Jun 01, 2012 4:53 am

hiima3L wrote:
Lasers wrote:
SaintsTheMetal wrote:What is the general feeling of how many people are working as an SA this summer? I would absolutely, absolutely love to live in the Bay where I grew up, but all I hear is that the norcal legal market is fucked.

I was pretty dismayed when I saw the numbers on LST for Hastings's employment.. a T1 school but with worse employment figures than many TTTs..
does it really feel accurate that barely over half of the class is getting FT legal work?

well considering not many students get biglaw SA positions 1L summer, i don't know of many people that do (i only know two people that do and one has a phd which helps hugely for IP). i can't really comment on 2L placement (which really matters) but it's probably 10-13% of the class for biglaw.

as for the employment figures...yes they are probably accurate (though they may have improved slightly). i don't know the job status for many 3L's, but from what i've heard, if you're at median you're pretty much fucked. unless you absolutely want norcal/CA, i would stay away from hastings (or davis) right now because the legal market blows.


It is much worse than you (2Ls and 1Ls) appreciate right now. I have dozens of friends who are top 30% (commencement brochure indicated top 30%, top 10%, top 1%, so I know for a fact what their approximate ranks are) with nothing lined up and no prospects whatsoever. If you strike out at OCI, you're pretty much fucked unless you network like crazy and strike gold and get super lucky.

I seriously don't understand how anyone thinks going to Hastings is a good decision right now. It is a huge, huge $150-180k gamble. My friends and I were discussing last night what we could do to knock sense into students walking around at admitted students day, and it seems like there is nothing that will convince people otherwise.

i know, speaking from my own personal perspective at least, i didn't think the legal market was nearly as bad as it really is. it's very hard to dissuade prospective students because everyone thinks they'll be in the top 10% and hit the lottery and get a job.

if you're taking on more than a manageable level of debt, i'd advise staying away from hastings or davis. seriously. this is coming from someone who genuinely likes all the professors and people at hastings, too. while the quality of the school hasn't changed, the economy/legal market has changed for the worse, and it truly is unfortunate.

it's scary that you say that top 30% students are struggling to find any kind of job...last year i was only aiming for top 25% thinking this would be enough to get a job.

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SaintsTheMetal
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby SaintsTheMetal » Fri Jun 01, 2012 5:29 am

Wow... that is surprising to hear from a school that has been ranked in the 30s.. Guess I'm not going to LS in the bay

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Lasers
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby Lasers » Fri Jun 01, 2012 6:31 am

SaintsTheMetal wrote:Wow... that is surprising to hear from a school that has been ranked in the 30s.. Guess I'm not going to LS in the bay

as i said, it's a product of the legal market/economy, not the school.

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SaintsTheMetal
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby SaintsTheMetal » Fri Jun 01, 2012 7:38 am

Lasers wrote:
SaintsTheMetal wrote:Wow... that is surprising to hear from a school that has been ranked in the 30s.. Guess I'm not going to LS in the bay

as i said, it's a product of the legal market/economy, not the school.


Yes that is definitely understood. I definitely get the sense that it is a respected school around here.

why does berk have to be such GPA whores >:-|

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kapital98
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby kapital98 » Fri Jun 01, 2012 1:11 pm

SaintsTheMetal wrote:
Lasers wrote:
SaintsTheMetal wrote:Wow... that is surprising to hear from a school that has been ranked in the 30s.. Guess I'm not going to LS in the bay

as i said, it's a product of the legal market/economy, not the school.


Yes that is definitely understood. I definitely get the sense that it is a respected school around here.

why does berk have to be such GPA whores >:-|


Because they can. Unless you're at the top of your class at Hastings it's pretty difficult to stand out from a mediocre Berkeley student :evil:

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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby skitlets » Sun Jun 03, 2012 12:06 am

hiima3L wrote:My friends and I were discussing last night what we could do to knock sense into students walking around at admitted students day, and it seems like there is nothing that will convince people otherwise.


Go to the ASD! I went and talked to students about their job prospects and all that. Not a single person acknowledged that it was a tough market out there.

hiima3L
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby hiima3L » Mon Jun 04, 2012 9:26 am

skitlets wrote:
hiima3L wrote:My friends and I were discussing last night what we could do to knock sense into students walking around at admitted students day, and it seems like there is nothing that will convince people otherwise.


Go to the ASD! I went and talked to students about their job prospects and all that. Not a single person acknowledged that it was a tough market out there.


That is baffling and pisses me off because I'm sure the administration is only selecting the top of the top. Do you happen to know when they are this summer?

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ilovesf
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby ilovesf » Mon Jun 04, 2012 10:03 am

hiima3L wrote:
skitlets wrote:
hiima3L wrote:My friends and I were discussing last night what we could do to knock sense into students walking around at admitted students day, and it seems like there is nothing that will convince people otherwise.


Go to the ASD! I went and talked to students about their job prospects and all that. Not a single person acknowledged that it was a tough market out there.


That is baffling and pisses me off because I'm sure the administration is only selecting the top of the top. Do you happen to know when they are this summer?

I know a bunch of 1Ls volunteered for it, and most of them probably just have no idea about it.

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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby AlanShore » Mon Jun 04, 2012 10:36 am

Lasers wrote:
SaintsTheMetal wrote:Wow... that is surprising to hear from a school that has been ranked in the 30s.. Guess I'm not going to LS in the bay

as i said, it's a product of the legal market/economy, not the school.

I know the economy, as a whole, is not doing great-- however, is nocal doing worse compared to socal (LA area?). USC and UCLA seems to have decent placement rates. They're not as good as pre-2008 but they're not awful. Both schools have a better reputation than Hastings/Davis but I was just curious about CA legal market if you attend USC/UCLA? Still risky compared to other large markets?

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Lasers
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby Lasers » Mon Jun 04, 2012 3:19 pm

AlanShore wrote:
Lasers wrote:
SaintsTheMetal wrote:Wow... that is surprising to hear from a school that has been ranked in the 30s.. Guess I'm not going to LS in the bay

as i said, it's a product of the legal market/economy, not the school.

I know the economy, as a whole, is not doing great-- however, is nocal doing worse compared to socal (LA area?). USC and UCLA seems to have decent placement rates. They're not as good as pre-2008 but they're not awful. Both schools have a better reputation than Hastings/Davis but I was just curious about CA legal market if you attend USC/UCLA? Still risky compared to other large markets?

i would say yes, socal's legal market is in better shape than norcal's. their legal market is much larger. however, it's a bit different comparing hastings to ucla/usc; ucla and usc are the top dogs in socal. it's more analogous to compare hastings to loyola and the like (though hastings is no doubt the superior school and definitely regarded as such). this is because hastings has stanford and berk clearly above them, and is probably tied with davis, while all the top 14 and ucla/usc also take away from hastings in norcal.

if you attend ucla/usc, while most of the t14 are also nipping away at jobs in socal, ucla/usc probably are preferred or equal to many of the t14 (and certainly preferred by socal to anyone below them). add on top of that that unlike hastings competing directly with stanford/berk in their backyard, ucla and usc pretty much dominate the region, yes, i'd say those schools provide significantly better employment prospects (though i've heard it has been very rough for them as well in recent years).

hiima3L
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby hiima3L » Mon Jun 04, 2012 4:14 pm

AlanShore wrote:
Lasers wrote:
SaintsTheMetal wrote:Wow... that is surprising to hear from a school that has been ranked in the 30s.. Guess I'm not going to LS in the bay

as i said, it's a product of the legal market/economy, not the school.

I know the economy, as a whole, is not doing great-- however, is nocal doing worse compared to socal (LA area?). USC and UCLA seems to have decent placement rates. They're not as good as pre-2008 but they're not awful. Both schools have a better reputation than Hastings/Davis but I was just curious about CA legal market if you attend USC/UCLA? Still risky compared to other large markets?


The long and short of it is that going to any CA law school is a pretty big gamble if you're paying sticker for it. Even Cal and Stanford give you a roughly 50% shot of landing a job that would make $150-200k in non-dischargeable federal debt manageable.

Hastings a huge god damn gamble (frankly, it is a retarded gamble in my opinion to pay even close to sticker here). UCLA/USC are both huge gambles, as well. CA's legal market (and economy as a whole) is in the shitter and hardly improving. The Bay Area was, I believe, the hardest hit legal market in the nation.

bingbang1025
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby bingbang1025 » Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:12 pm

I was considering Hastings and Loyola. I'm from California, didn't get into USC or UCLA. Got into Hastings with a $8k a year grant, and got $60k to davis. I want to work in socal. Still, I'm going to BU because the CA job market is so bad and because BU gave me $60k (and is cheaper than Hastings or Davis anyway). And while I'll try to come back to California, I'll work on the east coast if I have to. Shitty situation. Hoping to god I can network myw ay back to the West Coast.

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Lasers
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby Lasers » Thu Jun 07, 2012 11:25 pm

bingbang1025 wrote:I was considering Hastings and Loyola. I'm from California, didn't get into USC or UCLA. Got into Hastings with a $8k a year grant, and got $60k to davis. I want to work in socal. Still, I'm going to BU because the CA job market is so bad and because BU gave me $60k (and is cheaper than Hastings or Davis anyway). And while I'll try to come back to California, I'll work on the east coast if I have to. Shitty situation. Hoping to god I can network myw ay back to the West Coast.

good luck. try to keep ties over here; also, if you can, a transfer after 1st year to berkeley or even usc/ucla might be a good option if you are set on CA.

kingsftw
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby kingsftw » Fri Jun 08, 2012 12:12 am

bingbang1025 wrote:I was considering Hastings and Loyola. I'm from California, didn't get into USC or UCLA. Got into Hastings with a $8k a year grant, and got $60k to davis. I want to work in socal. Still, I'm going to BU because the CA job market is so bad and because BU gave me $60k (and is cheaper than Hastings or Davis anyway). And while I'll try to come back to California, I'll work on the east coast if I have to. Shitty situation. Hoping to god I can network myw ay back to the West Coast.


Tough situation. Main thing is to succeed at BU. If you can succeed there, you'll have options.

apollo2015
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby apollo2015 » Sun Jun 17, 2012 7:35 pm

Hastings has a ton of journals besides the main law review: Business, Communications and Entertainment, Constitutional, International, Race and Poverty, Science and Technology, Environmental, and Women's. Wow. That feels like a lot.

How do people decide what journal to join? Do people tend to self-select into what they studied in undergrad? (Econ/Business kids to Business; Bros, Sororities, and Communications majors to Entertainment; Poli-Sci to Constitutional; International Relations to International; Ethnic Studies to Race; Engineering to Science; Biology to Environmental; and Womens Studies to Women's?)

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ilovesf
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby ilovesf » Sun Jun 17, 2012 7:51 pm

apollo2015 wrote:Hastings has a ton of journals besides the main law review: Business, Communications and Entertainment, Constitutional, International, Race and Poverty, Science and Technology, Environmental, and Women's. Wow. That feels like a lot.

How do people decide what journal to join? Do people tend to self-select into what they studied in undergrad? (Econ/Business kids to Business; Bros, Sororities, and Communications majors to Entertainment; Poli-Sci to Constitutional; International Relations to International; Ethnic Studies to Race; Engineering to Science; Biology to Environmental; and Womens Studies to Women's?)

We just had our write-on after finals, and we don't know what journals we've made it onto yet. You can theoretically apply to all of them. I only applied to HLJ, International Law, and Constitutional Law. I did it based on interest and the supplemental writings required. I was going to apply to the women's journal, but they required an extra writing sample I felt too lazy to write, since I had just completed the write-on itself. I just felt too disinterested in most of them to write/answer extra questions. Maybe that was a mistake. You then find out which journals you are invited to join, and then you choose between them.

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kapital98
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby kapital98 » Sun Jun 17, 2012 10:58 pm

ilovesf wrote:
apollo2015 wrote:Hastings has a ton of journals besides the main law review: Business, Communications and Entertainment, Constitutional, International, Race and Poverty, Science and Technology, Environmental, and Women's. Wow. That feels like a lot.

How do people decide what journal to join? Do people tend to self-select into what they studied in undergrad? (Econ/Business kids to Business; Bros, Sororities, and Communications majors to Entertainment; Poli-Sci to Constitutional; International Relations to International; Ethnic Studies to Race; Engineering to Science; Biology to Environmental; and Womens Studies to Women's?)

We just had our write-on after finals, and we don't know what journals we've made it onto yet. You can theoretically apply to all of them. I only applied to HLJ, International Law, and Constitutional Law. I did it based on interest and the supplemental writings required. I was going to apply to the women's journal, but they required an extra writing sample I felt too lazy to write, since I had just completed the write-on itself. I just felt too disinterested in most of them to write/answer extra questions. Maybe that was a mistake. You then find out which journals you are invited to join, and then you choose between them.


For me, I applied to HLJ, Business, and Poverty/Race. I have an Econ background and am also part of LEOP (hence business + Poverty/Race). I think most people probably self-selected too. If you liked it in undergrad there is a higher probability you will like it compared to something new.

However, editing footnotes is very different from reading an undergrad textbook. I don't see it being nearly as interesting as it's sold by the Editors-in-Chief of the journals.

amissionsix
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Re: UC Hastings Students Taking Questions

Postby amissionsix » Sat Jun 23, 2012 5:19 pm

Yes the legal market is tough. And yes SF has a small legal market (but there's also Silicon Valley). Yes it costs way too much $$$ to attend law school (and you can't discharge your debt). But take all the negative advice on here with a grain of salt. The people that did well and got jobs probably aren't sitting on web forums talking about it. So just remember that.

After reading all the negative things about Hastings last year, I was second guessing my decision. But I used that to light a fire up under me b/c I realized what was on the line. Just know you have to not only work hard, but you also have to work smart. Coming to Hastings was a great decision for me. I'd be happy to answer questions as an "unjaded" Hastings student.




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