Cincinnati College of Law Inquiry Forum

[Ohiobumpkin]

Hello. I am considering applying and possibly attending CCL starting in Fall 2012. I wanted to see if there were any CCL students or grads out there that could describe things such as: The quality of the facilities (i.e. classrooms, library, computer labs, etc); The kind of relationship between faculty and students (close and individualized, or more formal and detached); the "spirit" or personality of the student body (competitive, or cooperative); and the experiential learning opportunities. For the graduates especially, or anybody with knowledge of this subject, what is the legal market like in Cincinnati for OSU and CCL grads? Thanks.

[MrAnon]

No one on this site is going to dissuade you from this school.

[Ohiobumpkin]

No one on this site is going to dissuade you from this school.

Thanks for the irrelevant response. Next.

[MrAnon]

The facilities are awesome, not the best, but pretty cool.

Faculty is really nice and approachable, all of them have office hours and they are willing to help. The student/faculty ratio is great!

Its known as the friendly law school and I think that is true. It doesn't even feel like law school at all!

All kinds of internships are available. The school encourages them!

No school owns Cincinnati legal market like CCL. I mean, its right downtown!


Look really none of these things matter. The only thing that matters is jobs. The legal market is Cincinnati is small and there are no shortage of grads from the nine schools in the state looking to work there. I don't see a lot of large firms so any firm around is only going to have a couple slots to fill each year. Baker Hostetler has an office there with maybe 8 associates, two of whom from Cincy. I looks like they hire one from Cincy on average every 3 or 4 years. Graydon Head may hire 1-2 Cincy grads per year? Frost Brown Todd is a major powerhouse in the region and appears to take on at MOST 2 Cincy grads per year. Now I'm running out of firms, which means most grads go to much much smaller offices. So just be prepared for that. You'll need to hustle for a job, you'll need to be comfortable with plaintiffs law, personal injury law, stuff like that.

[Notor]

OP the questions you are asking can be answered generically in any law school marketing materials. Those are not things you should be concerned with at all, they are irrelevant, you should be focused on how great of a shot you have at getting a job as a student at the school.

I have no idea about public interest so I won't comment on that. However, going to UC and banking on Biglaw/firm jobs is a poor bet, same with OSU. Big Firms in Cincinnati absolutely love local ties- if you aren't from the Cincinnati metro area/didn't go to a known high school, you are facing a massive uphill climb to get a call back let alone an offer even with top 10% grades/LR.

Fortunately if you are in-state both these schools are relatively cheap (if $26k a year is "cheap"), and if you are above median OSU gives $12k a year and UC gives something like $8.5k. Just be prepared from the outset to hustle and network because you probably won't have a firm job at graduation.

[rcpro40]

I maybe a little different bc I am a non-traditional student and have about 10 years of work experience in law firms and banks in Cincy, but there are more big firms (50-100 attys) in Cincy than the previous poster mentioned. In addition the ones mentioned there is Keating, Vorhys, Lerner, Weltman, Thompson Hine, and probably a few more. Also, Cincy has 10 fortune 500 companies (maybe 9 when Chiquita leaves) if you're looking at corporate or general counsel type of work along with them some pretty major banks if that is the type of law you like. For a smaller city there are surprisingly a fair number of bigger firms and big companies.

I have worked with people from OSU, UC, UK, UL, IU, Ohio Northern, Chase, and more. So while the school you went to may get your foot in the door bc the hiring partner is an alum (like the previous post said). If you can provide good work, show your dedication to the firm, and have good grades the partners will recognize it and want you no matter if its OSU, UC, or most others.

[Notor]

I maybe a little different bc I am a non-traditional student and have about 10 years of work experience in law firms and banks in Cincy, but there are more big firms (50-100 attys) in Cincy than the previous poster mentioned. In addition the ones mentioned there is Keating, Vorhys, Lerner, Weltman, Thompson Hine, and probably a few more. Also, Cincy has 10 fortune 500 companies (maybe 9 when Chiquita leaves) if you're looking at corporate or general counsel type of work along with them some pretty major banks if that is the type of law you like. For a smaller city there are surprisingly a fair number of bigger firms and big companies.

I have worked with people from OSU, UC, UK, UL, IU, Ohio Northern, Chase, and more. So while the school you went to may get your foot in the door bc the hiring partner is an alum (like the previous post said). If you can provide good work, show your dedication to the firm, and have good grades the partners will recognize it and want you no matter if its OSU, UC, or most others.

The whole Cincinnati market offers maybe 25 SA's in a given year (about half of which are from Dinsmore), I think you are painting an overly rosy picture. FBT, Taft, Vorys, have low single digits and KMK only is having 1 SA this summer. It's not a huge market and if you aren't from Cincinnati originally or have killer grades along with URM/IP, you are pretty much cut out.

Cincinnati does have a good legal market and good business climate but it's subject to the same economic forces as the rest of the country. It's not impossible to get an SA there, just very unlikely if you don't have good grades/Cincinnati birth certificate. Going to UC helps OP out 0% if he wants a big firm job and isn't from Cincinnati (given grades are even good enough to make it happen).

[Ohiobumpkin]

I am fine with the idea of working for a mid, or even small firm. I am trying to position myself in Cincy mostly because I and my gf are planning of settling down here. Thank you for all your help so far everybody (except first responder).

[Notor]

I am fine with the idea of working for a mid, or even small firm. I am trying to position myself in Cincy mostly because I and my gf are planning of settling down here. Thank you for all your help so far everybody (except first responder).

If you have any connections now, start utilizing them. If you look at the career services stats on UC's website, you can see that only 59 out of 129 Class of 2010 students were employed full-time in a JD-required job (--LinkRemoved--). That's pretty bad, but it's just reflective of the market. One nice thing I can say about UC is they seemed honest didn't appear to have any interest in tricking applicants when I visited the school two years ago.

I think your job prospects are better going to OSU, but if you really only want to be in Cincinnati I think its a good option. If you get a scholarship it's quite cheap, and if you are living with your GF she can obviously work as well thus cutting your CoL expenses in half.

[Ohiobumpkin]

Thanks for your help Notor. I think that I'll probably try for OSU over UC then, because at the end of the day, I need to maximize my chances of getting a job. Although going to UC would probably be a lot cheaper.

[Notor]

Thanks for your help Notor. I think that I'll probably try for OSU over UC then, because at the end of the day, I need to maximize my chances of getting a job. Although going to UC would probably be a lot cheaper.

I chose OSU over UC. OSU is the better school, and gives you more geographic flexibility (Columbus, Cleveland, Northern Ohio Markets in addition to Cincinnati). If you have good enough GPA/LSAT combo to get a scholarship, the price difference is only a few $k a year, which is worth it.

[Perdevise]

OP the questions you are asking can be answered generically in any law school marketing materials. Those are not things you should be concerned with at all, they are irrelevant, you should be focused on how great of a shot you have at getting a job as a student at the school.

I have no idea about public interest so I won't comment on that. However, going to UC and banking on Biglaw/firm jobs is a poor bet, same with OSU. Big Firms in Cincinnati absolutely love local ties- if you aren't from the Cincinnati metro area/didn't go to a known high school, you are facing a massive uphill climb to get a call back let alone an offer even with top 10% grades/LR.

Fortunately if you are in-state both these schools are relatively cheap (if $26k a year is "cheap"), and if you are above median OSU gives $12k a year and UC gives something like $8.5k. Just be prepared from the outset to hustle and network because you probably won't have a firm job at graduation.

This is so many kinds of true.

[puremorning]

Got accepted yesterday and am strongly considering UC. I'm from Cleveland and understand that if I attend UC I'll most likely be staying down in that area for good, but I have no interest in biglaw. How will this bear on things? I'm mostly interested in government, but understand that being from the area would help in any respect. Would it be worthwhile to go to UC? I just hate the idea of being stuck in Cleveland for the rest of my life. Love this city, but having no opportunity to leave terrifies me.

[puremorning]

On a lighter note other than the complete fear of not being hired and being in massive debt, where do most of the law students live in Cincinnati and about how much is rent down there?

[neeko]

Is there anybody out there that goes to Cincinnati that can answer questions?

[cinephile]

On a lighter note other than the complete fear of not being hired and being in massive debt, where do most of the law students live in Cincinnati and about how much is rent down there?

You could get a 2 bedroom in Clifton for $650-750.

[LeDique]

I really was hoping this thread was by "ohioblumpkin"

[Ohiobumpkin]

On a lighter note other than the complete fear of not being hired and being in massive debt, where do most of the law students live in Cincinnati and about how much is rent down there?

You could get a 2 bedroom in Clifton for $650-750.

And that would be for a nice apartment or duplex. I know a guy who lives on Klotter Street who has a really nice 1 bedroom (but really spacious) which only costs roughly $600 I believe (before utilities).

[Notor]

Got accepted yesterday and am strongly considering UC. I'm from Cleveland and understand that if I attend UC I'll most likely be staying down in that area for good, but I have no interest in biglaw. How will this bear on things? I'm mostly interested in government, but understand that being from the area would help in any respect. Would it be worthwhile to go to UC? I just hate the idea of being stuck in Cleveland for the rest of my life. Love this city, but having no opportunity to leave terrifies me.

Well, Columbus is obviously where the state capital is located, so that is where the jobs are (FYI-government really isn't hiring). If you are talking Federal Government jobs, you'd probably have to have top grades, like similar to/better than what you would need for biglaw, to have a shot. Look to the TLS employment board for more info on this if you want it.

Cincinnati is an ultra insular market, you will most likely struggle to make connections if you don't have any ties, see what I posted earlier about how your high school status legitimately matters in Cincinnati.

That being said, UC is a really cheap and the small class size is beneficial. I don't think its a bad option especially since you are an Ohio resident.

[puremorning]

Got accepted yesterday and am strongly considering UC. I'm from Cleveland and understand that if I attend UC I'll most likely be staying down in that area for good, but I have no interest in biglaw. How will this bear on things? I'm mostly interested in government, but understand that being from the area would help in any respect. Would it be worthwhile to go to UC? I just hate the idea of being stuck in Cleveland for the rest of my life. Love this city, but having no opportunity to leave terrifies me.

Well, Columbus is obviously where the state capital is located, so that is where the jobs are (FYI-government really isn't hiring). If you are talking Federal Government jobs, you'd probably have to have top grades, like similar to/better than what you would need for biglaw, to have a shot. Look to the TLS employment board for more info on this if you want it.

Cincinnati is an ultra insular market, you will most likely struggle to make connections if you don't have any ties, see what I posted earlier about how your high school status legitimately matters in Cincinnati.

That being said, UC is a really cheap and the small class size is beneficial. I don't think its a bad option especially since you are an Ohio resident.

I totally understand with the high school thing mattering. It's like that in Cleveland too. I work on the west side and went to school on the east side and it's like I'm this alien out there. I'm hoping for good things from OSU, but we'll see.

[Jhuen_the_bird]

I graduated from Cincinnati in 2010. The building and classes are kind of 70s style, bc it isn't a new building, but everything you would need in terms of technology is there. It's also very comfortable. Every student gets his or her own locker and mailbox (I think we had to pay something for the locker, but you get the same one all 3 years).

The professors are mostly laid back, with only a tiny bit of 1L "hazing" at the start. Class sizes are generally pretty small, and most professors will learn your name and get to know you.

The atmosphere is very collegial/cooperative. I never felt super competitive with other students. Sure, there are usually a couple crazy gunners, but they get over it after first semester. The 1L class is broken into small sections of around 20 students, so you get to know each other well, and a majority of the students are helpful (giving notes if you're sick, discussing things, sharing good opportunities).

The school is also REALLY good about making sure everyone is set on requirements for graduation, taking the bar, getting jobs, and planning ahead. Almost to the point of hand-holding, but we really appreciated it, bc I've heard horror stories from folks at other schools who have missed deadlines for bar application stuff and had to pay extra, or have missed a credit hour and had to take an extra class over the summer, etc. They are aware of what everyone is doing and it's helpful.

[Legalady]

I was excepted, and really excited about attending - but was given minimal scholarship $$ and then looked at the employment stats... For class of 2010 - only 45% are employed in Full Time, Permanent J.D. requiring jobs! I'm not from Ohio, or even the Midwest! Given that fact, should UC no longer be an option for me?

[Jhuen_the_bird]

I was excepted, and really excited about attending - but was given minimal scholarship $$ and then looked at the employment stats... For class of 2010 - only 45% are employed in Full Time, Permanent J.D. requiring jobs! I'm not from Ohio, or even the Midwest! Given that fact, should UC no longer be an option for me?

As much as I loved UC (went there for 7 years - undergrad + law school), I probably wouldn't recommend going there if you aren't from the area. I'm from Cincinnati and still working here. I feel like 45% seems kind of low for employments stats (I'm a 2010 grad) ... at least at this point. A lot of ppl just don't answer inquiries. I guess there ARE several folks doing contract / doc review jobs. And "permanent" is a funny word to use for ANY legal job in this economy, but I know what they MEAN.

The legal job market is terrible right now, so UC isn't an anomoly.

[thexfactor]

Got accepted yesterday and am strongly considering UC. I'm from Cleveland and understand that if I attend UC I'll most likely be staying down in that area for good, but I have no interest in biglaw. How will this bear on things? I'm mostly interested in government, but understand that being from the area would help in any respect. Would it be worthwhile to go to UC? I just hate the idea of being stuck in Cleveland for the rest of my life. Love this city, but having no opportunity to leave terrifies me.

Well, Columbus is obviously where the state capital is located, so that is where the jobs are (FYI-government really isn't hiring). If you are talking Federal Government jobs, you'd probably have to have top grades, like similar to/better than what you would need for biglaw, to have a shot. Look to the TLS employment board for more info on this if you want it.

Cincinnati is an ultra insular market, you will most likely struggle to make connections if you don't have any ties, see what I posted earlier about how your high school status legitimately matters in Cincinnati.

That being said, UC is a really cheap and the small class size is beneficial. I don't think its a bad option especially since you are an Ohio resident.

I totally understand with the high school thing mattering. It's like that in Cleveland too. I work on the west side and went to school on the east side and it's like I'm this alien out there. I'm hoping for good things from OSU, but we'll see.

I think the HS thing is the norm for every major MidWastern city except Chicago. We almost tend to have an inferiority complex and question why people from other regions want to move to the midwest.

[Jhuen_the_bird]

I think the HS thing is the norm for every major MidWastern city except Chicago. We almost tend to have an inferiority complex and question why people from other regions want to move to the midwest.

Hey,I have no inferiority complex here ... I think people on the coasts have a misplaced superiority complex. Personally, I feel it balances out when I can actually afford an upper middleclass lifestyle on a salary that would make me poverty-stricken elsewhere