University of Minnesota 3L taking questions...

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
UMN-3L
Posts: 32
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2011 5:53 pm

University of Minnesota 3L taking questions...

Postby UMN-3L » Thu Nov 10, 2011 7:33 pm

I am a 3L at UMN Law School. I usually avoid legal forums and blogs, since they are invariably depressing these days. However, one of my 2L friends sent me a link to another thread on this forum.

I disagree with a lot of what was said on that thread. The UMN 2L who posted on there is obviously very angry, and has been, in my opinion, careless about his reputation in the legal community. I'm not here to attack this student, since I think that this episode is actually kind of sad. Among other things, I don't think that this 2L understands how he is, perversely, working to degrade the value and marketability of the UMN JD he is peddling in the legal market. (Maybe he is receiving compensation from admissions offices at other top 20 schools? LOL.) He should be very worried about being identified, because law firms generally would not hire someone who has demonstrated such disloyalty and poor judgment in utilizing social media. I know I don't want him working at my firm.

I am too busy to go through and rebut this other student's many negative characterizations of our school. Rather, I would like to provide an alternative perspective. FYI, I am top quartile and I clerked at a Vault 100 law firm this summer. I received a job offer for after graduation, so I'm arguably less bitter than this other student. That said, I'm not a UMN cheerleader, and there are things I would change if I could.
Last edited by UMN-3L on Thu Nov 10, 2011 10:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

UMN-3L
Posts: 32
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2011 5:53 pm

Re: University of Minnesota 3L taking questions...

Postby UMN-3L » Thu Nov 10, 2011 7:54 pm

Just to start it off: why some chairs in our classrooms are tethered to desks.

Most of our chairs swing out from the tables, and are attached by a metal "arm." However, each classroom is equipped with some conventional chairs to accommodate physically disabled students. To prevent anyone from unintentionally removing these chairs from their tables (e.g. during lunch time, when there are usually club meetings or other activities in these rooms) and leaving disabled students without chairs during lecture, they are tied to the desks.

(I'm sorry, that answer is a bit anticlimatic, isn't it? Especially after the intense discussion about tethered furniture in the other thread.)

User avatar
msblaw89
Posts: 2669
Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2011 6:10 pm

Re: University of Minnesota 3L taking questions...

Postby msblaw89 » Thu Nov 10, 2011 8:04 pm

My app is currently under review so I've got my fingers crossed! In your opinion.. what are the pros and cons of Minnesota?

dusk2k2
Posts: 79
Joined: Sun Sep 27, 2009 4:59 pm

Re: University of Minnesota 3L taking questions...

Postby dusk2k2 » Thu Nov 10, 2011 9:46 pm

What market is your firm located?

UMN-3L
Posts: 32
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2011 5:53 pm

Re: University of Minnesota 3L taking questions...

Postby UMN-3L » Thu Nov 10, 2011 10:30 pm

@MSBLaw

The pros:

1) Experiential opportunities. One of the main reasons I chose to come to Minnesota is the clinical program: http://www.law.umn.edu/current/clinics.html. You can represent wrongly convicted inmates, homeless people trying to get housing, refugees fleeing persecution in their home countries, etc., all as a law student. A big criticism of law school in general is that it teaches you nothing about the actual practice of law. This program remedies some of that.

2) The faculty. We have some amazing professors (one who sang to us in the first year of law school), and they go the extra mile to help students get jobs. When I was going through OCI, multiple professors offered to make phone calls to their contacts at law firms where I was applying. I think that our professors are just as brilliant as the ones you would encounter at the top three law schools, but they are much more down to earth and most of them had (or still have) successful careers in private practice, public interest, or government. Being taught by lawyers who've actually had clients is a big contrast to having purely academic professors.

3) The students. UMN students are friendly and behave decently towards one another. I have never had a student turn me down when I asked for notes. 2Ls and 3Ls share their old notes and outlines with 1Ls pretty freely. I have never heard of any UMN law students passing out fake outlines, lying to each other about the start times for exams, hiding books or tearing pages out of books in the law library that other students need for a class, or doing anything else extreme to give themselves an unfair advantage over their classmates. I have heard about such shenanigans at other, more competitive, law schools, though.

4) The SSG program. The school actually hires successful 2Ls and 3Ls to teach optional quiz sections to 1Ls and explain material from their substantive classes. The students instructors are a great resource for 1Ls as they go through their difficult first year of law school.

5) Journal/moot court. This is mandatory in 2L year, so you can't succeed at UMN by just being a passive sponge for information. I have a relative who graduated recently from another highly ranked law school, and she says that our legal education sounds much more rigorous than what she had to go through at her coastal school.

6) Diversity. The law school heavily recruits LLMs (lawyers from other countries doing a 1 year program in American law) and exchange students from foreign law schools. Just by chatting with people I sat near in my classes, I've made friends with a Chinese lawyer who practiced transactional law at a top tier firm in Beijing for 10 years, a Polish lawyer who was part of a delegation from her country to the EU in Brussels, an Egyptian lawyer who practiced international business law in Bahrain, a Russian lawyer who managed complex international business transactions in Moscow, etc. The school fosters an incredibly enriching international student community.

The cons:

1) The building isn't pretty. I think that this has been discussed ad nauseum in the other thread. But I'll say that, if you have that much time to focus on the facilities, you, by definition, aren't studying hard enough to succeed in law school. Period.

2) Certain subjects aren't as well represented in the curriculum. E.g, if you're interested in ADR (alternative dispute resolution), Hamline Law School may be a better choice for you

3) The weather in Minnesota is a trip. But it does encourage people to be friendlier towards one another than in other parts of the country, I think.

4) UMN doesn't have great name recognition outside of the Midwest. So, if you're dying to break into the Vault Top 25, it may be more difficult to do from UMN. I've met lawyers at my firm who worked at some of the biggest and most prestigious law firms in the U.S., and their insane work hours and job pressures sounded absolutely miserable, so I wasn't interested, anyway. Minnesota is home to about 20 Fortune 500 companies, so the law firms here get sophisticated national and international legal work, but the quality of life is better for junior associates. (Some of them actually have families and can leave the office by 6 pm.)

I hope that answers your questions. Good luck!
Last edited by UMN-3L on Thu Nov 10, 2011 10:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Grizz
Posts: 10583
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2010 6:31 pm

Re: University of Minnesota 3L taking questions...

Postby Grizz » Thu Nov 10, 2011 10:40 pm

UMN-3L wrote:I am too busy to go through and rebut this other student's many negative characterizations of our school. Rather, I would like to provide an alternative perspective. FYI, I am top quartile and I clerked at a Vault 100 law firm this summer. I received a job offer for after graduation, so I'm arguably less bitter than this other student.

Ya think?

User avatar
daniel3.14
Posts: 71
Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2011 6:23 am

Re: University of Minnesota 3L taking questions...

Postby daniel3.14 » Fri Nov 11, 2011 1:36 am

I'm the 2L you're referring to, and I actually have no particular problem with people saying good things about UMN -- don't know why you felt the need to introduce your thread by implicating me as some sort of antagonist. Indeed, the more opinions that people hear, the better, so far as I'm concerned. What I do have a problem with is when people try to undercut my honest and sincere (and, by the by, well-documented) criticisms with ad hominem fallacies (I do not mean to suggest that you've deliberately done that here).

Also, I would like to make clear that after the administration's rather moronic application of a senseless policy screwed me over first semester, I pretty much gave up any hope of a legal career -- not that any of this is really any of your business. At any rate, I couldn't care less about what firms think of me at this point, and I feel perfectly free to speak my mind, rather than affecting some artificial facade of satisfaction with what has been a patently unsatisfactory experience. If you think that being honest about my experiences is "poor judgment," then I'd encourage you to look in the mirror, guy. I'm just passing the time until I get my degree and I go off to do other things. There's hardly anything I care less about than my "reputation" in the Minnesota legal community at this point.

For your part, your desire to preserve the school's reputation for your own admitted (!) personal self-interest is pretty crappy to applicants not yet ensnared or otherwise bound to the fate of UMN. When people think like you, then negative information about schools gets swept under the rug, and people don't find out about how horrible things are until they wind up stuck there. And then they're incentivized to lie about how good things are, so as to keep up impressions, in their own self-interest, and the cycle of deception continues. Evidently you think I'm being naive about my own future prospects by badmouthing my own school. I think you're doing a pretty grave disservice to prospective law students by airbrushing what is a pretty shoddy institution, with some pretty substantial problems. Accusing me of being "embittered" hardly changes those facts.

Case in point:

UMN-3L wrote:Just to start it off: why some chairs in our classrooms are tethered to desks.

Most of our chairs swing out from the tables, and are attached by a metal "arm." However, each classroom is equipped with some conventional chairs to accommodate physically disabled students. To prevent anyone from unintentionally removing these chairs from their tables (e.g. during lunch time, when there are usually club meetings or other activities in these rooms) and leaving disabled students without chairs during lecture, they are tied to the desks.

(I'm sorry, that answer is a bit anticlimatic, isn't it? Especially after the intense discussion about tethered furniture in the other thread.)


This is simply false. Are you claiming that the podium bookstands are chained down for the same reason? How about the projectors? They chain it all down, because that's the attitude of the administration. Look at the photos, guy. Have you been in the x5 classrooms? Do you really go to this school? They chain it all down! (see photos below) And while it's quite a nice cover to say that they're doing it for the benefit of poor disabled students, this just doesn't square with what's actually going on. I mean, if what you're saying were the case, don't you think it'd make as much sense to attach a sign to the chair, saying "for disabled student use," or some such thing? And even if you were somehow able to spin your way out of that, how do you explain that they chain down the podium bookstands? Your story doesn't have wings.

Again, I think it's great that you had a more positive experience at UMN Law than I had. And it's great that you're willing to take the time to share that perspective with prospective students. Let's just not be dishonest or belittle the sincere and honest opinions and reactions of those that disagree with us, nor play fast and loose with the facts, eh?

Photos cited:

Image

Image

Image

Image

Is this for the benefit of disabled students, too?

User avatar
msblaw89
Posts: 2669
Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2011 6:10 pm

Re: University of Minnesota 3L taking questions...

Postby msblaw89 » Fri Nov 11, 2011 2:12 pm

@UMN-3L

Thanks for the continued input. Could you elaborate on UMN's Business Program ( if you are familiar) and what Fortune 500 companies are in the Minneapolis/St. Paul area?

UMN-3L
Posts: 32
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2011 5:53 pm

Re: University of Minnesota 3L taking questions...

Postby UMN-3L » Sat Nov 12, 2011 3:59 pm

@MSBLaw: Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner. I've been working on my part of a legal brief for one of our clinic clients. (It'll end up being over 50 pages.)

UMN has a great business law program. It is actually one of the main things our school is known for. I've been taught business law courses by tenured professors who had successful careers at Latham & Watkins, Sullivan & Cromwell, Skadden Arps, Mayer Brown, and so on. I get the impression that a lot of them turned to teaching because they wanted to have a less demanding schedule and to be able to spend time with their young families.

I was going to write out a description of some of our business law opportunities, including the Business Law Clinic (where you can represent nonprofits and start ups as a student attorney). But I emailed the Director of our Corporate Institute, Professor Matheson, and he suggested that I refer you directly to him. He'll be happy to answer your questions, if you send him a message. His email is available on his faculty page (I don't feel comfortable posting it on this forum): http://www.law.umn.edu/facultyprofiles/mathesonj.html.

Here's a list of Fortune 500s in Minnesota: http://www.positivelyminnesota.com/Busi ... anies.aspx

Please let me know if you have any other questions!

UMN-3L
Posts: 32
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2011 5:53 pm

Re: University of Minnesota 3L taking questions...

Postby UMN-3L » Sat Nov 12, 2011 5:28 pm

@ Daniel3.14: Usually I have better sense than to feed a troll, but I'll make an exception just this once. After this, though, no more! Going forward, you'll have to get your attention fix from your adoring fans on this forum.

daniel3.14 wrote:Also, I would like to make clear that after the administration's rather moronic application of a senseless policy screwed me over first semester, I pretty much gave up any hope of a legal career --

I don't know the particulars of your situation, nor do I want to. I do know that the school sends everyone up to 5 emails reminding them to download their exams before the deadline has passed. First the general email to everyone, then the first targeted email to anyone who hadn't downloaded it when they got the first general email (I know this for a fact because I got one of these targeted warnings emails, last year), then a second targeted email, and so on. All 249 of your 1L classmates got these emails, because they checked their campus email account or had set up a mail forwarding from their school email to their personal email.

To most reasonable people, it would look like the school had done its due diligence by alerting anyone who hadn't downloaded their exams numerous times that they needed to do so before the deadline, or else risk having to take their exams by hand. You can argue that the policy is "senseless" and "moronic" if you wish, but deadlines are deadlines, and they are rife in the legal field.

If you were an actual lawyer (which you've indicated you don't plan to be), and you ignored a court filing deadline, or you failed to renew a client's UCC filing in time, you would probably be fired and sued for malpractice. (And neither the court nor the Secretary of State's office would take the time to send you five reminder emails warning you that you were about to miss your deadline.) When performing at our level, you are responsible for meeting your own deadlines.

FYI, I had a friend last year who opted to hand write his exams, anyway, simply because he prefers that to typing. He did better than I did in a class that we had together (I typed, like most other people in the room), so I know it's possible to get an "A" while handwriting.

daniel3.14 wrote: For your part, your desire to preserve the school's reputation for your own admitted (!) personal self-interest is pretty crappy to applicants not yet ensnared or otherwise bound to the fate of UMN. When people think like you, then negative information about schools gets swept under the rug, and people don't find out about how horrible things are until they wind up stuck there. And then they're incentivized to lie about how good things are, so as to keep up impressions, in their own self-interest, and the cycle of deception continues. Evidently you think I'm being naive about my own future prospects by badmouthing my own school. I think you're doing a pretty grave disservice to prospective law students by airbrushing what is a pretty shoddy institution, with some pretty substantial problems. Accusing me of being "embittered" hardly changes those facts.

Whoa, I said that I came to this forum because I disagree with what you've said. I'm being honest about why I'm taking the time and effort to offer an alternative perspective on our law school to prospective law students. I certainly already have enough to keep me busy. I also resent your implication that I'm lying about anything I've said on this thread. I haven't accused you of lying on your thread, though I must say that your claims seem highly subjective and don't appear to reflect the understanding of the majority of UMN law students.

I picked the University of Minnesota Law School because it was the right fit for me. I turned down higher ranked schools and schools that offered me full rides. I think that this is a great school. It offers many practical opportunities, friendly and accessible professors, and the balance between nurture and rigor I was looking for. This is is why I've invested my time, effort, and tuition money in receiving a UMN JD. I have no idea of why you continue to do the same, if you feel the school is so terrible, but that's your business.

daniel3.14 wrote:Are you claiming that the podium bookstands are chained down for the same reason? How about the projectors? They chain it all down, because that's the attitude of the administration. Look at the photos, guy. Have you been in the x5 classrooms? Do you really go to this school? They chain it all down! (see photos below) And while it's quite a nice cover to say that they're doing it for the benefit of poor disabled students, this just doesn't square with what's actually going on. I mean, if what you're saying were the case, don't you think it'd make as much sense to attach a sign to the chair, saying "for disabled student use," or some such thing? And even if you were somehow able to spin your way out of that, how do you explain that they chain down the podium bookstands? Your story doesn't have wings.

1) Um, yes, I go to this school, which is why I'm posting so extensively about it.

2) In my earlier response, I specified that they tether the chairs for the benefit of disabled students. They chain the projector and the document camera for the benefit of tax/tuition payers, LOL. The University of Minnesota is a public institution and therefore receives public funding. So is the law school. Ergo, the building is required to be open to the public during reasonable business hours. And the public can conceivably include thieves. You knew this, right?

3) About the chained lecterns: I just don't know. If you've ever had Professor Gross, though, you may share my theory. http://www.law.umn.edu/facultyprofiles/grosso.html Those who know Professor Gross are probably familiar with his highly entertaining lecturing style. (He is one of my favorite professors, by the way.) One day last year in International Business Transactions, he was holding forth on Letters of Credit. As usual, he was punctuating his discussion points by slamming his fist onto the lectern. At one point, he became so passionate about the subject that he accidentally struck the lectern clear off of the table! It flew mid-air and would have hit a nearby student in the face if it hadn't been chained.

So my personal theory is that the school chains lecterns to the front tables to avoid tort liability.

User avatar
daniel3.14
Posts: 71
Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2011 6:23 am

Re: University of Minnesota 3L taking questions...

Postby daniel3.14 » Sat Nov 12, 2011 7:36 pm

UMN-3L wrote:@ Daniel3.14: Usually I have better sense than to feed a troll, but I'll make an exception just this once. After this, though, no more! Going forward, you'll have to get your attention fix from your adoring fans on this forum.


Troll? Troll who's posted gobs of information about UMN, including video and photos. That's a weird sort of trolling -- providing information that the forum is meant to communicate. But I guess nowadays people call anything they don't like online "trolling."

And if I've earned myself a few fans, it's because I'm not writing crap like: "[insert law school] is great because it has a library. The professors know a lot about the law. They're so smart! At my school, they teach a lot of practical skills. I like the other law students, because they want to be lawyers, and I want to be a lawyer, so we all want the same thing. Sometimes that's bad, because we're fighting over the same thing. But mostly it's okay, because we go to bars together and make jokes about stuff we just learned in class. Also, they teach a lot of practical skills at my school. After graduating from my school, a lot of people get jobs. So that's why you should come to [insert law school]. By the way, there are a lot of opportunities to learn practical skills here. Oh, and [insert random local culinary specialty] is amazing here! Go [insert local sports team]!!!"

UMN-3L wrote:I don't know the particulars of your situation, nor do I want to.


That's good. I don't really think that this should be about me. But then why do you open this thread with:

UMN-3L wrote:The UMN 2L who posted on there is obviously very angry, and has been, in my opinion, careless about his reputation in the legal community.


UMN-3L wrote:I don't think that this 2L understands how he is, perversely, working to degrade the value and marketability of the UMN JD he is peddling in the legal market.


UMN-3L wrote:He should be very worried about being identified, because law firms generally would not hire someone who has demonstrated such disloyalty and poor judgment in utilizing social media.


For someone who doesn't care so much about the particulars of my situation, you sure seem to have a lot to say about it.

UMN-3L wrote: I do know that the school sends everyone up to 5 emails reminding them to download their exams before the deadline has passed. First the general email to everyone, then the first targeted email to anyone who hadn't downloaded it when they got the first general email (I know this for a fact because I got one of these targeted warnings emails, last year), then a second targeted email, and so on. All 249 of your 1L classmates got these emails, because they checked their campus email account or had set up a mail forwarding from their school email to their personal email.


Yeah, I don't recall getting any such email. It may have gotten swallowed up by an overaggressive spam filter. But it is equally possible that I just disregarded it as yet more UMN spam. The fact is that I get tons of spam from the school, alerting me to luncheons celebrating the building's janitors' cousins who served in the civil war or some such pointless nonsense. Heck, I got a really long mass email from Dean Wippman, writing us all to tell us about Dean Keyes having spawned a baby girl. Greaaat. Thanks for the info, Wippman. I really needed yet another email littering my inbox.

And why on earth do they lock the exams after the "magic week" in the first place? That's really the question. They can give as much notice of a stupid policy as they want. Giving notice doesn't make it any less stupid or unreasonable.

What if the policy were that you needed to register to take the exams at all. Would that be reasonable, too? You have to register, and there is a one-hour period during which you can do it. Afterwards, there is no appeal, nor any way to take the exams. And during the one-hour period, they send you an email every minute that you don't sign up? Would that be a reasonable policy? You would potentially receive 59 emails warning you that you hadn't registered to take exams. Does that make it a reasonable policy?

UMN-3L wrote:If you were an actual lawyer (which you've indicated you don't plan to be), and you ignored a court filing deadline, or you failed to renew a client's UCC filing in time, you would probably be fired and sued for malpractice. (And neither the court nor the Secretary of State's office would take the time to send you five reminder emails warning you that you were about to miss your deadline.) When performing at our level, you are responsible for meeting your own deadlines.


Courts grant continuances and extensions routinely. And not only when they're requested. They grant them when the lawyer doesn't even show up, assuming the lawyer would have requested it. They constantly make allowances for lawyers who don't meet deadlines. They don't like it, but it's certainly not going to get you fired or sued for malpractice. And by the way, don't lecture to me about "performing at our level." It's disgusting when law students act like they're seasoned courtroom veterans. What the heck do you know about it? What does "performing at our level" mean? Get off your high horse. You're not a lawyer. You're a law student. That's pretty low on the food chain.

More to the point, the question is: why have the deadline in the first place? It's a moronic policy because there's no reason that the rule should exist in the first place. It confers no benefit, and creates an arbitrary and pointless obstacle. It's a stupid policy because there's no reason it should exist to begin with!!! That's why it's a moronic policy. The only possible effect it could possibly have would be to inconvenience students and potentially create unfair test-taking conditions. That's not a byproduct or a collateral effect -- it's the only possible effect, if it's going to have any effect at all.

UMN-3L wrote:FYI, I had a friend last year who opted to hand write his exams, anyway, simply because he prefers that to typing. He did better than I did in a class that we had together (I typed, like most other people in the room), so I know it's possible to get an "A" while handwriting.


Depends on the exam, I guess. The one exam that had a word-limit, I got an A-. So yeah, for the right exam, it's certainly possible. Did I ever dispute that? It was really on the exams without word limits, where I got screwed. The more issue-spammy, the worse my grade.

And might I mention that this is what Dean Keyes claimed when I pointed out how this might be a considerable disadvantage to me. She said, "Some student choose to handwrite exams and score quite well." This is just an unspeakably obtuse comment. I mean, I hardly even know how to respond to this, I'm so shocked by how a non-retarded adult could possibly utter such a stupid thing. I mean, what are you arguing? That hand-writing isn't a disadvantage? Is that your point? The point is that I'm severely disadvantaged by being forced to take the exam under some pretty substantially different conditions than others. What the hell do these little anecdotes have to do with anything?

UMN-3L wrote:I also resent your implication that I'm lying about anything I've said on this thread. I haven't accused you of lying on your thread, though I must say that your claims seem highly subjective and don't appear to reflect the understanding of the majority of UMN law students.


If I implied that you were lying, then let me make clear that I don't think you are. Clear enough? Not a liar. That said, I don't think you're being entirely truthful, but that's not the same as lying, which is why there may have been some confusion. I assumed (and have no reason to doubt) that you're posting in good faith here.

As to my subjectivity, if you're laying this all on the Examsoft snafu from my 1L Fall semester, it may be worth mentioning that I thought pretty much exactly the same thing about this school before I took those exams. I distinctly recall saying that the school was a T4 institution with T1 faculty, which garnered much agreement and approving nods among the water-cooler crowd. Indeed, I have thought that this school was a pretty crappy law school since orientation (I was kicking myself for not getting in the car and driving the few miles to actually check out the building before accepting admission -- I stupidly thought that it couldn't be that bad).

Now, I'm totally willing to admit that my negative impression of the school has grown in intensity, due to my personal situation. However, I regretted coming here practically from the first day, so the basic opinion has not changed as a result of the exams. Indeed, my opinion of the school has remained exceedingly constant. I thought it was a dump from the first day. I think it's a dump today. No one can be perfectly objective, but insofar as you're trying to pick out this one particular incident as the cause of my criticism -- you are mistaken.

Also, I reject your accusation that I'm being unfair to the school. I have wholeheartedly agreed as to the school's strengths. I think that the faculty is extremely good. I personally have no complaints -- though I've heard rumors of some stinkers, my general impression of the faculty is overwhelmingly positive.

Moreover, I think the students are generally friendly, and the atmosphere is relatively relaxed/not-competitive. However, of all the reasons to pick a school, I think that the potential friendliness of other future students (who haven't yet been admitted) is a pretty bad reason to choose a school, but I've never disputed that the students are generally quite decent. I would point out that evidence on this forum has been wildly to the contrary (random UMN students crashing the other thread to tell me I'm a "traitor" and otherwise attempt to flex their feeble wits) -- but I'm totally willing to say that the few UMN students who have posted here have been the exception to the general good-natured amicability of the student body, with whom I generally get along well, and with whom I have no particular complaints.

UMN-3L wrote:I have no idea of why you continue to do the same, if you feel the school is so terrible, but that's your business.


Sunk cost. If I had it to do over, I definitely would not have accepted admission, but I've already made it through 1L year and half of 2L year. At this point, the minimal investment necessary to get the JD is worth treading water for another year and a half.

UMN-3L wrote:2) In my earlier response, I specified that they tether the chairs for the benefit of disabled students. They chain the projector and the document camera for the benefit of tax/tuition payers, LOL. The University of Minnesota is a public institution and therefore receives public funding. So is the law school. Ergo, the building is required to be open to the public during reasonable business hours. And the public can conceivably include thieves. You knew this, right?


Oh, I see. So they chain down the chairs for the benefit of disabled students, but they chain down the other stuff for different reasons. Going along with your theory then, you think that physically chaining the chairs down is a real classy way of accomplishing that goal, right? Because there's no other way they could accommodate disabled students, other than chaining down the furniture -- am I reading you correctly?

As for preventing thievery, yeah. I think that is why UMN chains its crap down. Stellar environment they've built for their students. I'm glad that the UMN Law School has taken such an interest in protecting taxpayer monies, "LOL." After all, someone could walk off with the 1980's CRT television screens, or those buggy standard-definition projectors, which bleed light and take thirty minutes to warm up. Some scurrilous thief could pawn that stuff off for parts, depriving the MN taxpayer of $50! Let's instead chain it all down, right? But surely, "you knew this, right?"

UMN-3L wrote:3) About the chained lecterns: I just don't know. If you've ever had Professor Gross, though, you may share my theory.

...

At one point, he became so passionate about the subject that he accidentally struck the lectern clear off of the table! It flew mid-air and would have hit a nearby student in the face if it hadn't been chained.

So my personal theory is that the school chains lecterns to the front tables to avoid tort liability.


And yet they have those giant electrical hoses running across the floor. You want to talk about tort liability?

Image

But I assume you jest on the third point, so I won't try to seriously rebut your theory that they chained down the furniture because Prof. Gross presents a hazard to student safety (side note: I did have Prof. Gross, and I thought he was an excellent teacher, and yes, I know what you're talking about with the aggressive gesturing).

All right, even supposing that your theory is true -- that they have a different reason for chaining down each item of furniture that they chain down, but that they're all valid reasons -- even if this is all true (which, I frankly don't buy) -- are you seriously telling me that they can't come up with any less ghetto solutions than to physically chain it all down? This is their only option? And if not, then why don't they exercise some alternative, which makes the place feel a little less like a prison?

fatlip
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2011 9:39 pm

Re: University of Minnesota 3L taking questions...

Postby fatlip » Sun Nov 13, 2011 9:45 pm

The past few days I've seen people hanging around inside the school taking photographs. I don't know if this is the beginnings of some effort to mitigate the effect of this smear campaign or what, but people are buzzing. Everyone wants to know what this Daniel character is going to do for an encore.

User avatar
msblaw89
Posts: 2669
Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2011 6:10 pm

Re: University of Minnesota 3L taking questions...

Postby msblaw89 » Sun Nov 13, 2011 9:48 pm

I don't see why the thick hose is a problem? Or a reason to not apply to UMN?

fatlip
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2011 9:39 pm

Re: University of Minnesota 3L taking questions...

Postby fatlip » Sun Nov 13, 2011 9:50 pm

Yeah give me a sec. and I'll link to some empirical evidence cited by the Princeton Review in an editorial piece extolling the educational virtues of thick hose.

User avatar
daniel3.14
Posts: 71
Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2011 6:23 am

Re: University of Minnesota 3L taking questions...

Postby daniel3.14 » Sun Nov 13, 2011 10:44 pm

msblaw89 wrote:I don't see why the thick hose is a problem? Or a reason to not apply to UMN?


UMN-3L claimed that the school chained down the podiums as a way of avoiding tort liability.

My reply was that the electrical hose posed a far greater potential tort hazard. I've seen quite a few students and more than a couple professors trip on those things, which are a pretty poor design decision. That's all.

Now, as to your second question, did I ever say that that was a reason not to apply to UMN? I gave lots of reasons people shouldn't come to UMN: the bottom-feeder adjuncts they attract to teach LW and P&P by paying less than part-time McDonald's workers; the deteriorating infrastructure, including spotty Wifi and obsolete AV setup in the classrooms; time-wasting 1L lectures; a thoughtlessly designed curriculum, which made P&P a graded course, resulting in protests and threats of a mass student walk-out; and an administration that regards its students as an inconvenience rather than its raison d'être.

The electrical hose was never given as a reason not to apply to UMN. At best, it is one amongst a panoply of factors that entail "bad environment," which itself is but an ancillary reason not to attend UMN. The fact that UMN's defenders have made a big deal about it does not automatically mean that I ever regarded it to be a particularly important point. That is their attempt at a "straw man argument."

fatlip wrote:The past few days I've seen people hanging around inside the school taking photographs. I don't know if this is the beginnings of some effort to mitigate the effect of this smear campaign or what, but people are buzzing. Everyone wants to know what this Daniel character is going to do for an encore.


Buzzing? Encore? Encore? What? What?!! Is this 1995? Am I in high school again?

I started an online thread, answering questions about UMN. Could anything be more banal? What do you think this is? A show? A concert? A stunt? I mean, what is so outrageous about not liking UMN Law? You think I'm the first person to choose a law school, and then to realize that he made the wrong choice? You think I'm the first person to hate his law school? It's one dude's impressions, which he's proffering for the benefit of future law students. Is anyone here accusing me of being dishonest? Does anyone think I fabricated those photos? Are those not real photos of the school? Does anyone think I'm lying about my experiences at the school? Does anyone think I'm lying about disliking the school? Does anyone think I secretly love the school? No? So what's the problem then? Is the problem that I've been disloyal? Seriously? I've betrayed the brotherhood of the UMN Law students? Seriously?

Frankly, I'm not really sure why anyone cares what I have to say about it, other than the prospective students, who are considering UMN, and to whom I've addressed most of my remarks.

Now, as to the prevailing opinion at UMN about what I've said, I've gotten a couple dozen emails and PMs from people telling me how much they agree with what I wrote. And there have been a few that have posted on the UMN 2L thread supporting my position publicly. On balance, I'd say that my impression is that more students agree with me than disagree with me.

In fairness, I've also received some threats of violence ( :roll: ), and some students have "anonymously" informed some of my profs about the thread, evidently in some sort of childish attempt to smear me (if those people are reading this, I've got two words for you: grow up). Of course, I get along quite swimmingly with my professors, and it's really sort of silly to think they'd care what I think about the school qua institution. I mean, it's just the place where they get their paycheck. It's not like they're going around decked out in Gopher gear, drunk on school pride or anything. Indeed, my impression is that the professors generally agree that the school's infrastructure is terrible, and the building is an eyesore. But aside from all that, I'm pretty honestly puzzled why these vapid little UMN cheerleaders care what I think about their school. I mean, are they upset that I'm not happy with the experience? Are they actually pissed off that I don't like the school? Do they think I must like the school? Do they think I have some sort of obligation to enjoy the UMN Law experience? Do they think I don't have a right to my opinion? Or do they just think I don't have a right to express that opinion?

I guess the really puzzling thing is that even if they thought that I shouldn't be airing UMN's dirty laundry, what on Earth compels them to care? I mean, what business is it of theirs if I take photos that show what the school looks like? Is it because no one except for UMN Law students are allowed to know how crappy the school is? Did I break some sacred covenant among UMN Law students not to divulge the secret of the school's inner sanctum? The sacred ritual of "magic week" and the sacrement of the electrical hose? Do they want me to kiss the skull of Geronimo and absolve myself by bathing in lamb's blood? I mean, seriously... WTF?

"Smear campaign?" This is a forum for telling future law students what your school is like -- reflecting on your experience at your school. That's exactly what I did. "Smear campaign," seriously? It's not like I've ever had anything bad to say about the faculty. Indeed, I've praised UMN's faculty and its strength in the regional market. That strikes me as being more like an honest evaluation than a "smear campaign." Just because the overall picture is negative does not mean that this is a "smear campaign." I mean, really, is is so inconceivable that a person could honestly walk away with the impression that UMN is overall a pretty rotten school, without being on a "smear campaign"?

You know, I've been mostly complimentary about the student interaction at UMN, but I will append one caveat, which is royally on display here. There is a small minority of UMN students, who contribute to a certain "high school" milieu, which I find grotesque. As if someone "dissing" the school required some sort of organized retaliation or something. Well, here's news: I still think the school is overall a piece of crap; I stand by my reasons for thinking so; and you know what else? I don't like gophers, either! What do you think about that? I guess now someone's going to have to haze me. Heaven forbid I should fail to bow down to the almighty gopher, right? You know, I'm actually happy when the gophers lose! Aren't I being just horrible? :P
Last edited by daniel3.14 on Sun Nov 13, 2011 11:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

narwhal
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2011 4:58 pm

Re: University of Minnesota 3L taking questions...

Postby narwhal » Sun Nov 13, 2011 11:47 pm

daniel3.14 wrote:Troll? Troll who's posted gobs of information about UMN, including video and photos. That's a weird sort of trolling -- providing information that the forum is meant to communicate. But I guess nowadays people call anything they don't like online "trolling."

It's not the fact that that you're providing information that makes you a troll, it's the fact that you insist on dominating conversations. Seriously, why do you care enough to write a diatribe in response to every post on this forum? And why do you keep reposting the same pictures? We've seen them already. Enough.

fatlip
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2011 9:39 pm

Re: University of Minnesota 3L taking questions...

Postby fatlip » Mon Nov 14, 2011 1:41 am

.

narwhal
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2011 4:58 pm

Re: University of Minnesota 3L taking questions...

Postby narwhal » Mon Nov 14, 2011 11:42 am

I have a question for a 3L. Is it true that the lottery system prefers 2Ls who took summer courses over 2Ls who did not? One facebook friend who took summer classes is apparently seen by the system as a 3L. I will be very upset if she has priority over those of us who worked last summer.

MNbound
Posts: 51
Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2011 9:42 pm

Re: University of Minnesota 3L taking questions...

Postby MNbound » Tue Nov 15, 2011 2:25 am

@Daniel314

Do you still go to law school at UMN or do you just hang out on these forums all day? The length and depth of your responses about projectors, chairs, desks, and rooms is really weird and insignificant when considering potential law schools. Why? Why do you continue to care so much about assuring everyone that the law school has the worst facilities in the country? who cares?

User avatar
daniel3.14
Posts: 71
Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2011 6:23 am

Re: University of Minnesota 3L taking questions...

Postby daniel3.14 » Tue Nov 15, 2011 11:09 am

MNbound wrote:@Daniel314

Do you still go to law school at UMN or do you just hang out on these forums all day? The length and depth of your responses about projectors, chairs, desks, and rooms is really weird and insignificant when considering potential law schools. Why? Why do you continue to care so much about assuring everyone that the law school has the worst facilities in the country? who cares?


1) I still go to law school.

2) The reason I give thorough answers about the facilities is (a) because I'm answering questions that people have asked, or else (b) because some jerk is trying to attack my credibility or otherwise undermine what I've said. Note that I didn't go posting all those pictures on my own initiative. Someone asked for pictures, so I went and took some pictures. What is "weird" about that? So far as I can see, that's just being helpful. And when people go around trying to "explain away" the problems, then what is so "weird" about countering that? So far as I can see, that's just setting the record straight.

3) I don't think that the facilities are the most significant reason to avoid UMN. And I don't think that chaining down the furniture is even a significant factor in evaluating the quality of the facilities. In fact, I must have said dozens of times that I consider the physical disrepair of the school to be just one small factor. I'll say it again -- I don't think that this is the main reason not to attend UMN.

There are a whole host of good reasons not to come to UMN, including the crappy LW and P&P adjuncts, who are working at less than a part-time McDonald's worker's salary; the poorly designed curriculum, which led to P&P becoming a graded course, which led to student protests, a petition, and threats of a walk-out; the buggy classroom infrastructure; the spotty Wifi and inadequate technology; horribly, poorly planned 1L lectures, which apart from being boring, are insulting and are aimed at an audience of children (seriously, they play cartoons during the lectures); the non-upgradable, required laptop purchase, which you're not allowed to opt out of, and which burdens you with a useless piece of crap computer; and an unresponsive and recalcitrant administration.

Note that I have never said that the ugliness of the school should be a main factor in choosing not to go to this garbage institution. It is a small factor. I have always said that it is merely a small factor amidst many more important factors. I don't know how I could possibly be more clear about this. Even in the posting in the other thread, where I posted all those pictures of the school, I start out the posting by saying that I consider the physical deficiencies of the school to be incidental to more serious and substantive problems. So I guess all I can do is to repeat: I NEVER SAID THAT THE SHITINESS OF THE BUILDING SHOULD BE A PRINCIPAL FACTOR IN DECIDING NOT TO COME HERE.

So here's what's happening: I give a bunch of criticism about the school. And I even back it up with photos and a video. A handful of UMN students (indeed, I'm inclined to suspect that it's just one or two of them spawning new sock puppets every couple days -- there seems to be a weird similarity in diction and raw inarticulateness that all these newly-created accounts popping up suspiciously have in common) decide to pick on one point. They gravitate toward picking at one, single, relatively marginal point: that the school is ugly and has crappy facilities. They make a bunch of fallacious arguments and produce a bunch of false fact-claims, to which I gamely respond. And then somehow, from the haze of equivocation and excuse-making, the confused notion arises that this one, relatively marginal point was the only reason that I've given not to come to the school. Of course, there are dozens of reasons not to come to this law school, which I have repeated numerous times. It's overrated on pretty much every metric, with the exception of faculty strength. And I have never, ever claimed that the facilities were a principal factor to consider. I have always pointed other factors as being the more compelling reasons not to come here. So let's just be 100% clear about that. No one is telling people to avoid UMN because of the ugly building. It happens to have a hideous building, it's true -- but the supernumerary reasons listed above are the far more compelling reasons not to come here.

As to why I care: I guess it's because I feel like I was conned into coming here. I continue to feel cheated and pretty upset about it. And I'm hardly alone. I would even wager that a majority of UMN Law students regret choosing UMN. So the reason I care so much about letting people know how bad it is is simply so that other people don't make the same mistake that I made. If that's "weird" then so be it.

And ultimately, after all these posts, what this all boils down to is the simple fact is that UMN Law is just a crappy school. I don't see what the fuss is all about. There are lots of crappy schools in the world. UMN happens to be one of them. Indeed, it happens to be one of the crappiest. Plain and simple. Sooo, don't come here. It's not like this is a particularly monumental revelation. There's a law school, which is grossly overrated, which you should avoid. I'm telling you about it. That's all. *shrug*

Oh -- and Gophers are vile little vermin.

UMN-3L
Posts: 32
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2011 5:53 pm

Re: University of Minnesota 3L taking questions...

Postby UMN-3L » Tue Nov 15, 2011 11:38 am

msblaw89 wrote:I don't see why the thick hose is a problem? Or a reason to not apply to UMN?


@MSBlaw89: For most normal people, it isn't. Honestly, I'd rather go to a physically Spartan school like UMN, with a high ranking and a policy of spending more of its students' tuition money on maintaining nationally competitive programs and a top 20 faculty, than go to a lower ranked school with prettier facilities. (Trust me, there are plenty of those.)

Speaking of Sparta, I don't think that Daniel 3.14 would have survived the Peloponnesian war. In the face of Lysander's attack, he probably would have been prancing around Athen's akademia, harrying the slaves for not perfectly pruning the olive trees. :P

UMN-3L
Posts: 32
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2011 5:53 pm

Re: University of Minnesota 3L taking questions...

Postby UMN-3L » Tue Nov 15, 2011 11:41 am

narwhal wrote:I have a question for a 3L. Is it true that the lottery system prefers 2Ls who took summer courses over 2Ls who did not? One facebook friend who took summer classes is apparently seen by the system as a 3L. I will be very upset if she has priority over those of us who worked last summer.


@Narwhal: I'd be surprised if that were the case, but I don't think I'm qualified to answer really detailed questions about the lottery system. A great person to ask would be Vic Massaglia, in the Career Services office. He's a great adviser and my favorite go-to guy whenever I have a question about the law school.

User avatar
daniel3.14
Posts: 71
Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2011 6:23 am

Re: University of Minnesota 3L taking questions...

Postby daniel3.14 » Tue Nov 15, 2011 12:00 pm

UMN-3L wrote:For most normal people, it isn't. Honestly, I'd rather go to a physically Spartan school like UMN, with a high ranking and a policy of spending more of its students' tuition money on maintaining nationally competitive programs and a top 20 faculty, than go to a lower ranked school with prettier facilities. (Trust me, there are plenty of those.)


Can you not read? Are you dyslectic? What is your major malfunction Private Pyle? I just posted that I don't think that the ugliness of the school should play a major role in making this decision. I just posted it, and I repeated it like twenty times and wrote it in all caps. Seriously, are freaking blind? And I listed a whole bunch of other reasons, which I consider vastly more important not to come to this school. Read:

daniel3.14 wrote:There are a whole host of good reasons not to come to UMN, including the crappy LW and P&P adjuncts, who are working at less than a part-time McDonald's worker's salary; the poorly designed curriculum, which led to P&P becoming a graded course, which led to student protests, a petition, and threats of a walk-out; the buggy classroom infrastructure; the spotty Wifi and inadequate technology; horribly, poorly planned 1L lectures, which apart from being boring, are insulting and are aimed at an audience of children (seriously, they play cartoons during the lectures); the non-upgradable, required laptop purchase, which you're not allowed to opt out of, and which burdens you with a useless piece of crap computer; and an unresponsive and recalcitrant administration.


Also, you are grossly misleading people when you make it seem like the choice is between an ugly T1 school and a pretty T4 school. Any other school in T1 will look better than UMN, will have better facilities, better technology, and a better classroom setup than UMN. Anyone who can get into UMN will likely get accepted into comparably ranked schools, so the tradeoff between educational quality and infrastructure quality is just a false dichotomy. You can have both. And if we can just agree that UMN is an ugly school (I will note that you're the one fighting this point), then I think it's totally fair to move on to all those other reasons (cited above) why UMN is worse than other law schools.

UMN-3L wrote:Speaking of Sparta, I don't think that Daniel 3.14 would have survived the Peloponnesian war. In the face of Lysander's attack, he probably would have been prancing around Athen's akademia, harrying the slaves for not perfectly pruning the olive trees. :P


Illiterate much? I am not the one making a big deal about how ugly the school is. You're trying to attribute the claim to me, but I never made any such claim. I mentioned the physical disrepair of the school. It's true. That's all. I never said that this was a reason not to come here. In fact, I wrote precisely that I did not assert such a proposition in all-caps in the post right above yours. Learn to read.

And by the way, the name of the city is "Athens," not "Athen." And what is the inference you're trying to make, Gomer? That because I would've been a bad soldier in the Peloponnesian War, therefore my thoughts on UMN are wrong? What?! What?!!

You should run along now; I'm sure Beavis is wondering where you are.

narwhal
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2011 4:58 pm

Re: University of Minnesota 3L taking questions...

Postby narwhal » Tue Nov 15, 2011 1:45 pm

UMN-3L wrote:
narwhal wrote:I have a question for a 3L. Is it true that the lottery system prefers 2Ls who took summer courses over 2Ls who did not? One facebook friend who took summer classes is apparently seen by the system as a 3L. I will be very upset if she has priority over those of us who worked last summer.


@Narwhal: I'd be surprised if that were the case, but I don't think I'm qualified to answer really detailed questions about the lottery system. A great person to ask would be Vic Massaglia, in the Career Services office. He's a great adviser and my favorite go-to guy whenever I have a question about the law school.


I emailed the registrar. His response, with Dean Keyes cc'ed:

Registrar wrote:The lottery system interfaces with the main University records system (PeopleSoft), which determines class level by credits earned and in-progress. 2L students who will have earned 55 credits by the end of fall term have only 33 credits to complete to earn the JD. 33 credits may be completed in 2 semesters, so the system has been programmed to give students in their "final year" (2 remaining terms) at least two lottery events to obtain the necessary courses for them to graduate.


I wrote back to both, pointing out that PeopleSoft is apparently not in line with the academic rules requirement of six semesters of residency. (Summers only count for half a semester as per the rules.) Dean Keyes replied, after some delay:

Dean Keyes wrote:We appreciate the feedback and will indeed consider possible changes to the current protocol in future semesters. Since the lottery registration system is programmed in coordination with the Central University, it is not something that we can easily change.

Thanks again, and please let us know if you have other questions.


So, the answer is: 2Ls who take summer classes are considered 3Ls during their second semester, and have priority in registering for clinics and seminars, whether or not they are planning to graduate early. The administration will not change this because it's too difficult.

UMN-3L
Posts: 32
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2011 5:53 pm

Re: University of Minnesota 3L taking questions...

Postby UMN-3L » Wed Nov 16, 2011 12:08 am

daniel3.14 wrote:
UMN-3L wrote:Speaking of Sparta, I don't think that Daniel 3.14 would have survived the Peloponnesian war. In the face of Lysander's attack, he probably would have been prancing around Athen's akademia, harrying the slaves for not perfectly pruning the olive trees. :P


Illiterate much? I am not the one making a big deal about how ugly the school is. You're trying to attribute the claim to me, but I never made any such claim. I mentioned the physical disrepair of the school. It's true. That's all. I never said that this was a reason not to come here. In fact, I wrote precisely that I did not assert such a proposition in all-caps in the post right above yours. Learn to read.

And by the way, the name of the city is "Athens," not "Athen." And what is the inference you're trying to make, Gomer? That because I would've been a bad soldier in the Peloponnesian War, therefore my thoughts on UMN are wrong? What?! What?!!

You should run along now; I'm sure Beavis is wondering where you are.


[Okay, I'm making a small exception to my self-imposed rule to not respond to Daniel 3.14's trollish posts.]

@Daniel 3.14:

Re: the Spartan reference. Simmer down; I was poking a little fun at you. (And yes, you "got me" about placing the apostrophe in the wrong place in "Athens." I had real work to do today, so I didn't spend too much time laboring over my response. However, I studied Classics in undergrad, so I am more likely to refer to the city as "Athenai" in Roman characters, if attempting to be serious.)

I'd like to reiterate, Daniel, that I did not start this thread to attack you. I am merely offering an alternative perspective because I disagree with what you said on your thread. Just as you have a right to share your opinion, I have the right to critique and disagree with it. I admonished your behavior in the beginning of this thread in an attempt to spell out for you the damage you were (and still are) doing to your professional reputation; I was concerned that you didn't understand how permanent a stain your behavior on this forum may turn out to be. (But why you believe that knowledge of the multimedia campaign you have launched against the school will remain in the Twin Cities legal community, especially when you chose the internet as the medium of your attack, I still do not know.) This, of course, is before you informed me that you had decided to commit professional suicide. You're right, it's none of my business.

You are the one who came onto this thread and began referring to me quite derisively as "guy," (by the way, I'm actually a "girl"), "jerk," and now, apparently, "Beavus." (And after all of those holier-than-thou chastisements to other posters for using ad hominem attacks. Tsk, tsk, Daniel.) I've responded by teasing you because I think that you take yourself entirely too seriously. Compared to some of the people I've known in the law school community who have faced challenges to their success, terminal illness of a close family member, suicide of a childhood friend, substance abuse by a significant other, etc. your persecution complex comes off as rather frivolous. In your first year of law school, you ignored the administration's numerous emails reminding you to download ExamSoft and therefore missed the window. Too bad, but not the most sympathetic story I've heard.

However, I can see from the degree of anger in your response that you seem to feel that you were persecuted by the administration, and you appear to regard yourself as an iconoclastic rebel who, like David vis-a-vis Goliath, is singlehandedly challenging the establishment to further student rights. It is entirely valid for you to present that viewpoint of yourself and your narrative. But it is equally valid for me to say that I think that your vendetta is frivolous. This is how free speech works. (In fact, we have a First Amendment class which devotes a large chunk of time to this subject, if you're interested.)

I wish you all success in your future endeavors, Daniel, and--joking aside--I hope that your actions on this forum have no lasting negative impact on your life. Good luck with whatever you decide to do. :-)

FYI, in the interest of making one last playful jab at you, I thought I would repost an email the school administration sent out today. I immediately thought of you when I saw it:

Law School Exams wrote:"[LAW-STUDENTS] Important Information about Final Exams
Hide Details

FROM:

Law School Exams

TO:



Message flagged
Tuesday, November 15, 2011 5:28 PM
Dear Students,

In order to take your final exams this semester, you will need to download and install the new version of SofTest and download your exam files.

The download period will begin on Monday, November 21st, and closes on Friday, December 2nd. The process only takes a few minutes. If you do not download your exam files during this period, you must hand-write your exams. There are no exceptions.

1Ls and international students will have a mandatory training session during which we will install the software, download the exams, and go through a mock examination during the last week of November. 2L and 3L students will receive instructions for downloading the new software and exam files on Monday. Students who have not used SofTest before (e.g. transfer or visiting students) and those who do not have a laptop program laptop are encouraged to visit the LSCS Office for a quick overview and so we can determine whether your laptop is capable of successfully running the exam software.

You will receive more information and instructions for downloading your exams once the download period opens. Please read it carefully and review it thoroughly. You are responsible for the contents of any email sent to you from --------@umn.edu.

Please carefully read all messages from --------@umn.edu.

LSCS"




Return to “Ask a Law Student / Graduate”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Capitol_Idea and 3 guests