NYU 3L Taking Questions Forum

[Detrox]

Thanks to the other 3L fielding that question above. I've been gone for sometime but I will try to answer the remaining questions shortly after I've reviewed them.

[Detrox]

Thanks for all of the above responses OP.

The general consensus on TLS seems to be that DC is a tough market to crack in general (firm, PI, and gov.) Do you have any impressions on that from you/your classmates' experiences applying for jobs?
Apologies if the question is vague, im just trying to get an impression of how (im)probable that goal would be coming out of NYU.

Really appreciate you taking the time to do this. Good luck on the bar!

Seems like all questions were decently handled by helpful others except for this one.

DC was extremely tough for the people I knew and myself. Top 10% people going 0/10 on screeners, Top 5% people receiving offers only at some of the lower ranked firms with almost no action from W&C, Covington, Wilmerhale or even A&P. Now I by no means know all of the people who applied to D.C. and I have no idea if/how many people from NYU actually made it into those firms I listed that I just don't know, but it was definitely noticably tough, with or without significant ties. A few firms such as GDC (non-appellate), Hughes Hubbard, and some firms with satellite offices in D.C. all seemed to have decent placement, but still required top credentials. Those were my limited observations.

[Pete Venkman]

Know of anyone from NYU who made it into "prestigious PI" jobs? ACLU/HRW/DoJ Honors program/etc.?

[jmets890]

Kind of a trivial question, but how easy is it to miss a day of classes once or twice? For instance, a group of friends are trying to plan a trip to our UG on a random weekend but want to make it a Thursday Night-Sunday Night trip. Is this frowned upon?

Also, what do most profs do about class the Wednesday before Thanksgiving? Do many students miss it or is it usually a normal class day>

[Detrox]

Know of anyone from NYU who made it into "prestigious PI" jobs? ACLU/HRW/DoJ Honors program/etc.?

Not personally, but OCS would provide you with this kind of data and contact information if the people were willing.

Kind of a trivial question, but how easy is it to miss a day of classes once or twice? For instance, a group of friends are trying to plan a trip to our UG on a random weekend but want to make it a Thursday Night-Sunday Night trip. Is this frowned upon?

Also, what do most profs do about class the Wednesday before Thanksgiving? Do many students miss it or is it usually a normal class day>

People miss classes a fair amount. 1L year it's certainly not recommended, but you'll find that consistency of attendance varies with the professor, some can be extremely strict while others take the view that "you're only hurting yourself" and let that serve as punishment. Wedsnesday before Thanksgiving (and classes that fall before holidays and long weekends generally) have a noticable drop in attendance, but that doesn't mean you'll be off the hook for the information that was covered those days.

Overall, missing class really shouldn't be done unless necessary, but missing one or two classes will not tank your chances at a good grade in the class (potentially excluding a professor or two who take attendance more seriously than the majority). Getting notes from friends in the class and letting the professor know ahead of time are two very good steps to minimize any harm from foreseeable class absences.

[ksllaw]

A follow-up question:

What undergraduate course(s) did you find most helpful and/or relevant to your studies in law school?

[Detrox]

A follow-up question:

What undergraduate course(s) did you find most helpful and/or relevant to your studies in law school?

Um. I took an International Law class in undergrad, so that helped with international law. I guess small seminars where professors may call on you a la socratic method helps prepare you for that style of classroom experience. But beyond that, there's nothing really in UG that takes the form of reading a bunch of cases and/or statutes and discerning the logic and the tensions, that's why there is law school. Finally, maybe technical writing classes to help with papers and briefs etc. etc., but overall I'm going to have to say that undergraduate studies aren't really that helpful or relevant to your time in law school.

[drbarry987]

Thanks for fielding questions!

Quick question about the curve:

My 0L limited understanding is that the class of 450 or so is broken into 5 sections of 90 ish and then further subdivided into Lawyering sections of 30ish.

You're curved within your 90 person section, right? Not on the broader 450 person class or smaller 30 person lawyering group, right? In other words, each class in each section will allocate a fixed percent of A's (e.g., for Section X, Class Y 10%, or 9 people, get A's).

?

[IFoughtTheLaw]

Thanks for fielding questions!

Quick question about the curve:

My 0L limited understanding is that the class of 450 or so is broken into 5 sections of 90 ish and then further subdivided into Lawyering sections of 30ish.

You're curved within your 90 person section, right? Not on the broader 450 person class or smaller 30 person lawyering group, right? In other words, each class in each section will allocate a fixed percent of A's (e.g., for Section X, Class Y 10%, or 9 people, get A's).

?

Correct. Lawyering is pass/fail, which is a pretty much guaranteed pass.

[Stanford4Me]

A friend of mine who was a Lawyering TA had a kid who failed. Lawl.

[drbarry987]

What kind of social events do they have at orientation. I saw that there are some optional social events organized at night too. Anything cool?

Also, what's the best food that is close to the LS ( other than Mamoun's which I tried and is bomb) ?

[chasgoose]

A friend of mine who was a Lawyering TA had a kid who failed. Lawl.

Wait, seriously??? How is that even possible?

[Detrox]

What kind of social events do they have at orientation. I saw that there are some optional social events organized at night too. Anything cool?

Also, what's the best food that is close to the LS ( other than Mamoun's which I tried and is bomb) ?

There is seriously too much good food in the village, much less new york, to give this question a real answer. I don't remember orientation very well so hopefully some other NYUers can help.

A friend of mine who was a Lawyering TA had a kid who failed. Lawl.

Wait, seriously??? How is that even possible?

As easy as the class is, I'm sure some people don't actually even turn in the assignments/do them because they become bogged down or whatever. Note to all 0Ls, LRW is easy to pass but does require a base minimum amount of time to actually complete the assignments. Annoying, but useful in the long run.

[indigomachine]

Figure now that they've posted our courses, now's probably a good time to ask if there a verdict on renting textbooks?

Seems like you can save a lot of money this way, but wondering if there are any downsides to renting... Will we ever need our textbooks again, or is it like undergrad where you basically try and ship off your books down to the next generation after you're done a class?

Thanks everyone for taking questions!

[Detrox]

Figure now that they've posted our courses, now's probably a good time to ask if there a verdict on renting textbooks?

Seems like you can save a lot of money this way, but wondering if there are any downsides to renting... Will we ever need our textbooks again, or is it like undergrad where you basically try and ship off your books down to the next generation after you're done a class?

Thanks everyone for taking questions!

I buy all my books and keep them, but I think I'm definitely in the minority in this case. I haven't needed to open my casebooks again since classes have ended, you may want to keep the supplements though.

[Stanford4Me]

Figure now that they've posted our courses, now's probably a good time to ask if there a verdict on renting textbooks?

Seems like you can save a lot of money this way, but wondering if there are any downsides to renting... Will we ever need our textbooks again, or is it like undergrad where you basically try and ship off your books down to the next generation after you're done a class?

Thanks everyone for taking questions!

I bought my textbooks 1L year, sold all the ones I could right after. I've been renting ever since. I used to think the fact I couldn't highlight (extensively) in a rented textbook was a downside, but I realized it was all mental and I just learned to take better notes while reading.

[indigomachine]

Figure now that they've posted our courses, now's probably a good time to ask if there a verdict on renting textbooks?

Seems like you can save a lot of money this way, but wondering if there are any downsides to renting... Will we ever need our textbooks again, or is it like undergrad where you basically try and ship off your books down to the next generation after you're done a class?

Thanks everyone for taking questions!

I bought my textbooks 1L year, sold all the ones I could right after. I've been renting ever since. I used to think the fact I couldn't highlight (extensively) in a rented textbook was a downside, but I realized it was all mental and I just learned to take better notes while reading.

Awesome, and yeah that kind of sounded like my experience in undergrad too... I think I'll probably end up just renting and being careful to not paint the pages neon yellow

[izy223]

im sure this question has been asked before but i did a search and i couldnt really find anything NYU specific. So how bad is it if i use an old edition of a casebook specifically. Epsiten Torts 9th edition, instead oh 10th or Contracts: Cases and Doctrines, Fourth Edition Randy E. Barnett, instead of 5th.

Thanks!

[Detrox]

im sure this question has been asked before but i did a search and i couldnt really find anything NYU specific. So how bad is it if i use an old edition of a casebook specifically. Epsiten Torts 9th edition, instead oh 10th or Contracts: Cases and Doctrines, Fourth Edition Randy E. Barnett, instead of 5th.

Thanks!

Going to depend on your professor/class. Generally it's not a problem, but you can email your professor and ask if you're going to be missing anything necessary for class thats only in the new edition. In any case, even if there's something you'll miss, you can just borrow a friend's book and photocopy the relevant material.

[nutella123]

So, what do you think about briefing cases? How detailed should those briefs be? Is it professor-dependent or do you think you can generalize for NYU Law across the board? Thanks. And hints about outlining always welcome....

[Detrox]

So, what do you think about briefing cases? How detailed should those briefs be? Is it professor-dependent or do you think you can generalize for NYU Law across the board? Thanks. And hints about outlining always welcome....

It's not really professor dependent, it's student dependent. I briefed cases fall of 1L year, and did fine/well. I didn't in spring and did fine/slightly better. Others I know brief cases like crazy, others barely read the cases and focus on the supplements. You'll have to figure out your own style.

The same is slightly less true but still applicable to outlines. People in law school want to find outline or studying gospel and the truth is it is very very dependent on how you as an individual can learn and study best. I have had mixed success both making my own outlines and relying on those posted online by previous years students, some classes I don't even think having an outline is useful at all. Sorry this answer isn't very helpful.

What I would recommend is a small study group. I learn well as an individual and did not use them before law school, but at the very least they can show you how different people study and often point you to things in the class that you would have missed or considered unimportant.

[arism87]

So, what do you think about briefing cases? How detailed should those briefs be? Is it professor-dependent or do you think you can generalize for NYU Law across the board? Thanks. And hints about outlining always welcome....

It's not really professor dependent, it's student dependent. I briefed cases fall of 1L year, and did fine/well. I didn't in spring and did fine/slightly better. Others I know brief cases like crazy, others barely read the cases and focus on the supplements. You'll have to figure out your own style.

The same is slightly less true but still applicable to outlines. People in law school want to find outline or studying gospel and the truth is it is very very dependent on how you as an individual can learn and study best. I have had mixed success both making my own outlines and relying on those posted online by previous years students, some classes I don't even think having an outline is useful at all. Sorry this answer isn't very helpful.

What I would recommend is a small study group. I learn well as an individual and did not use them before law school, but at the very least they can show you how different people study and often point you to things in the class that you would have missed or considered unimportant.

Agreed. I recommend briefing cases until you feel like you don't have to anymore. Mostly it forces you to pay attention to/remember certain aspects of cases until you start thinking that way naturally. It also forces you to keep on top of reading and is a nice security blanket until cold calling stops being terrifying. You shouldn't keep briefing for the sake of briefing.

As far as outlining, I slightly disagree- I will always always make my own outline. At a first glance, it's helpful to see how people laid things out. After you're done with yours, it's nice to go back over other peoples' outlines more thoroughly (if they had your professor!) to see what you could add/edit. But outlining is half the battle- if you spend some serious time compiling/editing an outline, you're almost done studying. I tried using someone else's once and it was by far my worst grade-- this could be coincidence, but I surely won't be tempting fate in the future!

Anyway, take this advice (and all other) with a grain of salt! If you made it to NYU, you've likely been doing something right-- keep doing what works for you

[Stanford4Me]

A friend of mine who was a Lawyering TA had a kid who failed. Lawl.

Wait, seriously??? How is that even possible?

Not entirely clear, but was told the student never showed up to class and turned in a 3 page brief, among other things.

[nutella123]

And any insights into Neuborne for CivPro? Oren Bar-Gill for Contracts? Barkow for Crim? Would love ideas re supplements, etc. Thanks!

[shure57]

What percentage of people don't do any journal or moot court?