Temple 1L Taking Questions Forum

[Honeysuckle]

Nope, just a home-sick 1L here. "Dead-set" was a bit strong; I just have close affinity/ties to the Philly area.

Then don't worry about transferring. Got any lawyers in your circle of friends and family?

Yes, though they don't work in practice areas that I am particularly interested in.

On top of the unanticipated homesickness bug, I'm a little worried that Philly employers might question my commitment to the region based on my decision to go to school in Boston, despite my having grown up and worked there. Like I said before, the market it really insular. Temple would end up being cheaper (not to mention providing easier networking opportunities in the market I hope to work in), though thanks to a sizable merit scholarship from BC/BU, I won't be crushed with an insane amount of debt if I stay. I did get accepted to Temple as an 0L, but I choose BC/BU because of overall stronger ranking, reputation, LRAP, etc. Is a downward transfer ever a smart idea, it it ends up being cheaper and the school is in a market that I strongly have a preference for?

If (and that's a very big if, considering the arbitrariness of law school grading) I end up top 5-10%, of course Penn comes into play. Obviously nothing I can bank on, no matter how hard I work.

What kind of work do you want to do in Philly? If you want a shot at big law, most of the large law firms have a few BU/BC grads. You might even hurt your chances by transferring to Temple. When they do OCI at Temple, they are coming in to screen top 20-25%, and I don't know how transfers fit into that. You should probably find someone from this year's transfer class and see how they did.

Thanks for the advice/perspective. I'm solidly PI/gov't oriented.

[r6_philly]

I agree to an extent, I'm just saying the screeners don't necessarily reflect great offer chances. The firms that typically have two interview rooms (Blank, Stradley, Pepper, Fox, etc.) all interview 30-40 candidates, but the ones that end up getting the gig are the top 3-5% of the class, from this year + the last few years. Class sizes are still pretty conservative at 10-15 on average for the big firms.

I don't know if it makes a lot of difference, but my class at Penn seems to have less local folks than what I expected. If NY/DC markets pick back up by next year, more big law openings could be available.

[johnnyutah]

Thanks for the advice/perspective. I'm solidly PI/gov't oriented.

If you're sold on Philadelphia government/PI work, I wouldn't worry too much about trying to transfer to Penn. It won't give you all much of a leg up, if any. Your main concern with getting a job should be networking, not what school you go to. It may certainly be easier to network from Temple, but if you can leverage your family connections and make contacts from Boston, I'd say just stay pat. Your biggest priority right now should be finding a 1L summer position in Philadelphia.

[beach_terror]

Thanks for the advice/perspective. I'm solidly PI/gov't oriented.

If you're sold on Philadelphia government/PI work, I wouldn't worry too much about trying to transfer to Penn. It won't give you all much of a leg up, if any. Your main concern with getting a job should be networking, not what school you go to. It may certainly be easier to network from Temple, but if you can leverage your family connections and make contacts from Boston, I'd say just stay pat. Your biggest priority right now should be finding a 1L summer position in Philadelphia.

Phone calls and emails to spots you want to work out are going to be important too. Try to build some sort of base, so you don't turn into a rando from Boston who's trying to work in Philly. That shit probably won't fly.

[Kage3212]

I also have a question regarding the C&F portion: Were you ever convicted of any felony, misdemeanor or other criminal offense or violation, or are criminal charges now pending against you?

I have two incidents where i was CHARGED, but due to programs (classes + ARD) both incidents were subsequently dismissed and later expunged. In my mind I don't see these as convictions, but I have disclosed them on other applications as they have specifically asked about "charges." Any update on how to answer this question?

[beach_terror]

I also have a question regarding the C&F portion: Were you ever convicted of any felony, misdemeanor or other criminal offense or violation, or are criminal charges now pending against you?

I have two incidents where i was CHARGED, but due to programs (classes + ARD) both incidents were subsequently dismissed and later expunged. In my mind I don't see these as convictions, but I have disclosed them on other applications as they have specifically asked about "charges." Any update on how to answer this question?

Call the admissions office and ask. Just say you're a prospective applicant if you don't want to disclose your identity, not that it would matter.

Technically the question asks for convictions. Doesn't ARD mean you were found guilty and you just do community service to get it expunged?

[Kage3212]

I am pretty certain is it a pre-trial diversion program where there is no admission of guilt. Upon completion, the charges are dismissed and are then able to be expunged. I have recently applied to Pitt, where they ask for "charges", so I am thinking about just using the same addendum with an added sentence. Maybe something like "Although i was never convicted of any crimes, I feel it necessary to fully disclose previous criminal charges in the most honest manner possible." Do you think that is a proper avenue to take? I know this broadens the question substantially, I just don't want to come across as trying to hide something when I am more than willing to be held accountable for my actions.

[beach_terror]

I am pretty certain is it a pre-trial diversion program where there is no admission of guilt. Upon completion, the charges are dismissed and are then able to be expunged. I have recently applied to Pitt, where they ask for "charges", so I am thinking about just using the same addendum with an added sentence. Maybe something like "Although i was never convicted of any crimes, I feel it necessary to fully disclose previous criminal charges in the most honest manner possible." Do you think that is a proper avenue to take? I know this broadens the question substantially, I just don't want to come across as trying to hide something when I am more than willing to be held accountable for my actions.

I'm not totally sure of how the ARD program works, which is the key to the puzzle here. Airing on the side of over-disclosure is certainly the smartest thing to do, IMO. I'd still recommend calling and just asking about it, I'm sure the adcomms are familiar with the program and can give you a definite answer.

[Kage3212]

Thanks beach, appreciate your time.

[x7227]

Thanks beach, appreciate your time.

Beach, I'm quite amazed that a wildcat spends so much time making us owls look good! You post more often in these threads than we do.

Kage, I think Beach is right on point here. Even though you weren't convicted, its clearly in your best interest to call and ask. If there is any ambiguity you should err on the side of disclosing if only because you will definitely be asked tougher questions on the C&F portion of the bar. Failure to disclose there, or revealing that you failed to disclose something you should have disclosed to your law school could get real scary, real fast.

[beach_terror]

Thanks beach, appreciate your time.

Beach, I'm quite amazed that a wildcat spends so much time making us owls look good! You post more often in these threads than we do.

Kage, I think Beach is right on point here. Even though you weren't convicted, its clearly in your best interest to call and ask. If there is any ambiguity you should err on the side of disclosing if only because you will definitely be asked tougher questions on the C&F portion of the bar. Failure to disclose there, or revealing that you failed to disclose something you should have disclosed to your law school could get real scary, real fast.

That's because I'm a nerd and I'm always at my computer. I'm also sick of outlining professional responsibility and taking my tri-hourly TLS break. Also, there isn't an active Nova thread (that I've seen)

[x7227]

Thanks beach, appreciate your time.

Beach, I'm quite amazed that a wildcat spends so much time making us owls look good! You post more often in these threads than we do.

Kage, I think Beach is right on point here. Even though you weren't convicted, its clearly in your best interest to call and ask. If there is any ambiguity you should err on the side of disclosing if only because you will definitely be asked tougher questions on the C&F portion of the bar. Failure to disclose there, or revealing that you failed to disclose something you should have disclosed to your law school could get real scary, real fast.

That's because I'm a nerd and I'm always at my computer. I'm also sick of outlining professional responsibility and taking my tri-hourly TLS break. Also, there isn't an active Nova thread (that I've seen)

Sick of outlining Crim here. They just shut the lights off in my part of the library (quiet part way off the beaten path) and I realized I needed a study break, so I took a walk to have them turn the lights back on. So this is what my life as a 1L has become...

[89vision]

How's the disability services? Is it harder to register than in undergrad?

[Kage3212]

Regarding my question earlier: I called today an was told that I should answer "No" to the question. However, I was told to include an addendum mentioning the charges and the final disposition. I found this odd as it seems kind of counter-intuitive to answer "No" only to end up disclosing anyway. Regardless, I will be disclosing as per the Office of Admission's instructions.

[x7227]

How's the disability services? Is it harder to register than in undergrad?

I can't say I've ever had to use the disability services yet, but I do know that we have Dean Esten who is absolutely AMAZING at solving such problems if they were to arise. If you ever have a problem, personal or related to law school, she is absolutely amazing at helping you out in every way possible. Honestly, Dean Esten has been one of the few absolute surprises about law school, but in a good way. If there's anything that could possibly help out (within reason/rules of course), she'll find a way to make it happen.

[x7227]

Regarding my question earlier: I called today an was told that I should answer "No" to the question. However, I was told to include an addendum mentioning the charges and the final disposition. I found this odd as it seems kind of counter-intuitive to answer "No" only to end up disclosing anyway. Regardless, I will be disclosing as per the Office of Admission's instructions.

Well I'm completely confuzzled on this one. It just feels wrong in so many ways, but its not? Its kinda like this...

http://youtu.be/0xIwP2Jg6zw

[89vision]

How's the disability services? Is it harder to register than in undergrad?

I can't say I've ever had to use the disability services yet, but I do know that we have Dean Esten who is absolutely AMAZING at solving such problems if they were to arise. If you ever have a problem, personal or related to law school, she is absolutely amazing at helping you out in every way possible. Honestly, Dean Esten has been one of the few absolute surprises about law school, but in a good way. If there's anything that could possibly help out (within reason/rules of course), she'll find a way to make it happen.

Basically excused absences, extended time on assignments and tests.

Does Temple place well in Pittsburgh? I'm instate, and Temple is several grand cheaper, tuition wise. I know the COL probably nullifies any tuition savings.

I am really interested in Temple's externships and PI focus. Did anyone here participate in those programs? If so, did you enjoy them? I definitely interested in the Innocence Project.

[HeavenWood]

How's the disability services? Is it harder to register than in undergrad?

I can't say I've ever had to use the disability services yet, but I do know that we have Dean Esten who is absolutely AMAZING at solving such problems if they were to arise. If you ever have a problem, personal or related to law school, she is absolutely amazing at helping you out in every way possible. Honestly, Dean Esten has been one of the few absolute surprises about law school, but in a good way. If there's anything that could possibly help out (within reason/rules of course), she'll find a way to make it happen.

Basically excused absences, extended time on assignments and tests.

Does Temple place well in Pittsburgh? I'm instate, and Temple is several grand cheaper, tuition wise. I know the COL probably nullifies any tuition savings.

I am really interested in Temple's externships and PI focus. Did anyone here participate in those programs? If so, did you enjoy them? I definitely interested in the Innocence Project.

Regional peer schools are regional peer schools. Unless you're open to the far more likely possibility of ending up somewhere within Southeast PA/South Jersey/Northern Delaware, you're much better off going to Pitt.

[Justathought]

So far this thread has only seen 1L contributions; consequently its probably difficult for us to give you insight into externships and the Philadelphia Innocence Project. However, I do know quite a few upperclassmen who spend their time engaged in legal work, in the community, throughout the semester.

As to placement in Pittsburgh: I know a few people hoping to work there, but we are not a traditional feeder school to the market. From what I have seen, the office of career services doesn't focus on Pittsburgh. Still, Temple has a good rep throughout the state, so you could probably make that work if the cost of attendance is too low to pass up.

Edit: I think our Penn Pal (get it!), Heavenwood, is correct. With the aforementioned caveat being that I would choose Temple if the cost was much cheaper and I was open to working in SE PA (even though I preferred the Pitt market).

[x7227]

How's the disability services? Is it harder to register than in undergrad?

I can't say I've ever had to use the disability services yet, but I do know that we have Dean Esten who is absolutely AMAZING at solving such problems if they were to arise. If you ever have a problem, personal or related to law school, she is absolutely amazing at helping you out in every way possible. Honestly, Dean Esten has been one of the few absolute surprises about law school, but in a good way. If there's anything that could possibly help out (within reason/rules of course), she'll find a way to make it happen.

Basically excused absences, extended time on assignments and tests.

Does Temple place well in Pittsburgh? I'm instate, and Temple is several grand cheaper, tuition wise. I know the COL probably nullifies any tuition savings.

I am really interested in Temple's externships and PI focus. Did anyone here participate in those programs? If so, did you enjoy them? I definitely interested in the Innocence Project.

Vision,

If there's a good excuse, I'm sure they'd be willing to talk about whatever accommodations you require. Might be something to shoot an email off about once you're accepted though.

As for the innocence project, I've actually got a friend who did it during fall 1L... it seemed intense. Its something you can do, but not maybe something you should do 1L. As for the other years, they're really big on making sure everyone who wants a placement, gets one.

Any other questions, feel free to PM (though I may not answer right away...or until after the 20th).

[katzrr]

Do you know anyone doing the part-time program at Temple? How do they like it/do they seem burnt out?

[jsvaughn]

Does anyone know how difficult it is to establish residency in PA?

And has anyone had success negotiating scholarships with Temple?

Thanks in advance for any help!

[Justathought]

To the first question:

Its not easy to establish residency. From my understanding, you need to be able to demonstrate a purpose for being in Philadelphia outside of an educational one. In addition, if accepted as a non-resident, you are bound to that status for at least the first year. There is a way to change that status for years two and three, but doing so involves a comprehensive application process. In short: not easy or likely, but possible after the first year.

To the second question:

Temple will negotiate a little bit. Temple, even for out of state residents, is more affordable than many other comparable schools. Therefore, they don't offer too many big scholarships. However, if you get a scholarship of around 8,500 as an out of state resident, that's equivalent to getting a scholarship of like 30k at a school like Cardozo or 20k at a school like Villanova. If you get any money as an instate resident, then Temple is pretty darn cheap.

Hope this helps.

[z0rk]

What is the reputation of the evening division program? is it simillar to the day? do the two groups ever meet? do evening division students participate in clinics?

[arvcondor]

What is the reputation of the evening division program? is it simillar to the day? do the two groups ever meet? do evening division students participate in clinics?

Can't speak to any of that except that I can tell you almost unequivocally that ne'er the two sections do meet.