NYU Law 2L taking questions..... Forum

[MiracleMile777]

Down to answer some questions about the 1L experience over at NYU.....

[SuperCool23]

How different(complex) is law school from undergrad?

[kaiser]

How's OCI shaping up? How many firms/offices coming? And how much is preselect vs. lottery?

[MiracleMile777]

How different(complex) is law school from undergrad?

Definitely very different from undergrad. I think that you can get away with a lot more in undergrad than you can here...Basically, I think that it was very possible to do little, if any work in undergrad and then get after it a week before the exam, and get a solid grade. Whereas in law school, I think that you make it pretty difficult on yourself even by starting a month out. Still, everyone studies differently and I think how you outline, use secondary sources and all that is something that you'll need to ultimately decide for yourself (there's probably been 100s of posts echoing this).

On the social side, you can definitely make it an "undergrad" experience at NYU. We have weekly events, and I'd say that the class last year was very inclined to go out and have a good time......and its the city....so basically there's always stuff to do.

Definitely more complex....if there's a certain complexity you're concerned/ thinking about lemme know......

How's OCI shaping up? How many firms/offices coming? And how much is preselect vs. lottery?

OCI is shaping up well...I think that at this point you begin to realize that the ball never stops rolling and you're always looking forward. After we took our last final we immediately went into journal crisis lockdown mode, and now we're all focusing on OCI.

The OCI scenario is different for everyone because to a great extent its dependent upon 1L grades (I'm sure you already knew that)....but there are more than enough firms to accommodate every GPA at OCI.....also, my friends and I are pretty open about our grades, GPAs, etc...and no one's freaking out right now....I think that there's a confidence thats surrounding the bidding process and OCI more generally.....I don't know if my friends are an unrepresentative sample size, but I do know that our GPAs are all over the place and everyone's keeping it together as of right now.....

We use lottery system, which amps up the strategy....but from what I've heard from the school and rising 3Ls is that people generally get a solid group of firms....nonetheless, I'm getting a feeling that a good deal of it comes down to which ones turn out to be the popular ones amongst all of us...so we'll see....

Let me know if I can answer anything else...

[sven]

Thanks for answering questions!

What portion of the 1L's live off-campus? Do you think that living about 30-40 minutes away would detract much from the experience?

[booboo]

Did you live in the University housing? How was it, if so?

Will you promise to post back about how NYU OCI turns on this year, ?

[MiracleMile777]

Thanks for answering questions!

What portion of the 1L's live off-campus? Do you think that living about 30-40 minutes away would detract much from the experience?

From what I gathered last year, living on campus was the norm. There were definitely people that lived off campus and I think that it worked for them. I dont know the number breakdown (if that's what you're looking for), but I'd guess from the people I know that overall probably 80% lived on campus and 20% lived off.

I think that living 30-40 minutes away will definitely detract from your experience. I dont study well on the subway, but maybe that's just me. I think that you want a 20 minute commute max....something that can get you into the West 4th station within 20 is ideal. I just think that living that far out makes it difficult to get to school and can make it difficult to socialize (go out) with other students. I wouldn't want to have to travel that far to get home after a night out....

Still, if you're considering living somewhere thats 30-40 away you're gonna saving A LOT, and I can understand that....so you have to decide if saving 500 (im guessing) a month is worth the added strain and inconvenience of having to do that commute twice daily.

Did you live in the University housing? How was it, if so?

Will you promise to post back about how NYU OCI turns on this year, ?

Yea, I lived in University housing, and I'd definitely recommend it. You gotta make the Mercer/Dag decision for yourself, but what you'll find is that Mercer dorms are much larger, but Dags obviously across the street from Vandy. I'd go with Mercer....having a little distance between yourself and Vandy is OK, and the walk gives you a chance to clear your head. Also, Mercer is like a block from Coles, which is great - especially when it gets cold

Also, I think living in the housing matters just cause you get a chance to get to know your classmates. It was great being able to head over to their apartments when we wanted to head out etc.

Thinking more about this - I think its just a good idea, especially for 1L year, to live in a law school bubble as much as possible -- living in the dorms can help make that happen....come finals, everyone goes into grind mode, and I think that its a lot easier to stay focused/ get competitive when you see that everyone around you is getting after it

[MiracleMile777]

Did you live in the University housing? How was it, if so?

Will you promise to post back about how NYU OCI turns on this year, ?

haha and yea, I promise to post back after OCI....

anything else?

[legalmindedfella]

Thanks very much for taking some questions. Have you found office hours with professors substantive/helpful? Any tips/anecdotes on getting involved in research - and is that harder to do if you're not there on a Furman? And have you found that people with the big scholarships more generally have more opportunities/doors open to them that are closed to others? (I have no idea on the last, just a vague worry.)

[MiracleMile777]

Thanks very much for taking some questions. Have you found office hours with professors substantive/helpful? Any tips/anecdotes on getting involved in research - and is that harder to do if you're not there on a Furman? And have you found that people with the big scholarships more generally have more opportunities/doors open to them that are closed to others? (I have no idea on the last, just a vague worry.)

Office Hours

Out of the 6 professors I've had (not including lawyering) I've only been 2 of their office hours. I went to one professor's office hours just to ask some questions about some of the stuff we had just learned in the previous class, and I went to other one's during finals week to ask some last questions about issues on the test. I found both really helpful.

For the regular office hours experience, it was great to speak with the professor in a more relaxed setting. I'm not that talkative in class, so I really appreciated not having to feel like I was up on a soapbox asking questions. I think going and talking to him really paid off - the highest grade that I've received at school came from that class (I dunno if that was causation or whatever - but I definitely felt like I had a leg up on the issue I was asking about)

For the finals week office hour experience, it was very different. I appreciated that we had the opportunity to go meet with the teacher before finals, but I had to work and be extremely aggressive to get my questions answered....I think that I can still call this office hours experience helpful simply because I was aggressive, but if you just kept quiet and "waited your turn," I think it would have made for a waste of an hour or two of crucial study time.

The most annoying part of that office hours experience was that people were asking questions that they could've answered for themselves if they had just gone over the material - I'm talking like unbelievably basic questions....but maybe they really had those questions - still I feel like it was an exercise in asking questions just to ask.....Also, half of the class came to those sessions so it was total anxiety-ridden insanity.

Still, I'd say go to office hours and definitely get to know the professors. At this point, I'm toying with the idea of going after clerkships and I wish that I knew my professors better.

Any tips/anecdotes on getting involved in research - and is that harder to do if you're not there on a Furman

For this - I mean, I think you're better off not worrying about this during your 1L year at NYU besides the time that teachers post their RA positions for the summer. You're gonna feel overwhelmed during the year even if you think you're an all-star, and I really think that your GPA matters more than a semester research assistant position as a 1L. If I remember correctly, one of my friends did a little research for a professor, so maybe if you feel like you can handle it with everything else you should do it. If its something that interests you, I'd definitely go to office hours and ask the teachers if they're looking for some research help during the semester (another reason to go to office hours).

I'm not on a furman, and I don't think any of my friends are on Furman's....so I cant really answer that question.

And have you found that people with the big scholarships more generally have more opportunities/doors open to them that are closed to others?

Yes and No. I know that certain scholarships pretty much guarantee you a job after your 1L summer - but the vast majority of us don't have scholarships - so the playing field is pretty much level for the 2L summer. At that point, a lot of it (most of it) is gonna come down to GPA, and I don't know how much work those scholarships will do at that point if your GPA isnt on point. Still, certain scholarships have various networking/ extracurricular events for the chosen few...which definitely allows you to get out there and network....which can open doors, etc.

Saying that, I dont have a scholarship - so I am definitely not the authority on this subject. Taking a guess (macro perspective), I'd say that it could have a slight impact....but, put it this way, the scholarship might open some doors, but its not gonna get you through them single-handedly

Keep em coming...

[Hawkeye Pierce]

I know this is subjective and a bit tough to answer, but based on your observations and personal experience with OCI, would you take NYU sticker over MVP with a moderate amount of scholarship money? Right now, I am 100% committed to working in NYC big law after graduation.

With my numbers, I'm guessing I may find myself in such a situation (applying this cycle).

[MiracleMile777]

I know this is subjective and a bit tough to answer, but based on your observations and personal experience with OCI, would you take NYU sticker over MVP with a moderate amount of scholarship money? Right now, I am 100% committed to working in NYC big law after graduation.

With my numbers, I'm guessing I may find myself in such a situation (applying this cycle).

I dont really have much experience with OCI considering I'm a rising 2L, but the experience that I've had would lead me to advise you to take NYU at sticker as opposed to MVP with a moderate amount of scholarship money. I think that the decision would be much more difficult if you were offered full rides at one of those schools and then choosing between that and sticker at NYU.

Ultimately, having success at OCI/ getting a job is going to come down to the grades that you get your first year....because of that, I think its a good move to just go to the best school you can get into....unless you're choosing between closely ranked schools, and lets say the lower ranked school is throwing A LOT of money your way (and the financial burden of school is something that concerns you). Saying that, as I'm sure you know, the better the school that you attend, the more wiggle room you have with your grades. I'd guess that top 30% at NYU opens more doors than top 30% at UVA.

I'm trying to work biglaw in NYC too, and I had scholarships to go to other places. I definitely think I made the right choice. Even though NYU pushes PI a great deal, it provides students with a strong interest to go biglaw with a great support system (from personal experience).

I'd also advise going to NYU over MVP (especially for biglaw purposes) as it is much easier to establish contacts/ make connections with the NYC firms if you're in the city. Little things like this can go a long way. I've heard friends that go to MVP talk about not having ready access to the NYC firms. From personal experience, being able to go and meet with people at these firms is priceless.

Also, I dont know how they do it at other schools, but NYU has countless mixers with these firms that take place throughout the year, and I've had some friends that have secured 1L summer biglaw jobs simply by hitting these up.

I'd choose NYU....

[muppet263]

Any optional orientation activities you'd advise not to miss?

[MiracleMile777]

Any optional orientation activities you'd advise not to miss?

hah its been a while since orientation.....I cant think of any optional orientation activities not to miss, but thinking about orientation more generally, I would definitely hit up the round table with NYU alums that takes place in Tishman (or at least took place last year). It was great hearing them speak about what they're all doing now.

Also, I'd definitely head out with your lawyering group - I'd say thats the most important thing - just get out and socialize. I remember being pretty uptight/ anxious during that first lawyering class during orientation. Going out to the bars over orientation weekend definitely breaks the ice, and will for sure help you to feel more comfortable at school.

If you give me a list of the activities that you think look good on paper, I could be of more help.

[legalmindedfella]

Since you're being helpful... have you noticed when/how students who come in looking to do public interest work migrate toward private-sector work? It does seem as if this has to happen, as it appears more students before school have public-interest-minded aspirations than wind up heading outside of the private sector, and I'm really interested in how this process plays out and at what time. And if I'm assuming wrong, let me know that instead.

[spondee]

Since you're being helpful... have you noticed when/how students who come in looking to do public interest work migrate toward private-sector work? It does seem as if this has to happen, as it appears more students before school have public-interest-minded aspirations than wind up heading outside of the private sector, and I'm really interested in how this process plays out and at what time. And if I'm assuming wrong, let me know that instead.

3L here.

Mostly it's OCI. First, there's the timing: OCI occurs before almost all public interest job hunting, so a lot of students go through OCI as a safeguard. But then once they have a summer job offer, there's less urgency in finding something else. Second, there's the ease of it: although 20% of people may strike out at OCI, as far as job hunts go, the process is an easy one. Just follow the instructions. The public interest job hunt requires more initiative and traditional job-hunting skills, which many students who are straight-through just don't have. Third, there's the money--even "just for the summer," which turns into "just for a year to pay down debt," etc.

[SuperCool23]

What did you do your first summer(@2L)? when did you learn how to outline and study for law schoo exams(during your first year)?

[SuperCool23]

What other schools did you get into? @2L

[SuperCool23]

Also what did your schedule look like

[legalmindedfella]

Since you're being helpful... have you noticed when/how students who come in looking to do public interest work migrate toward private-sector work? It does seem as if this has to happen, as it appears more students before school have public-interest-minded aspirations than wind up heading outside of the private sector, and I'm really interested in how this process plays out and at what time. And if I'm assuming wrong, let me know that instead.

3L here.

Mostly it's OCI. First, there's the timing: OCI occurs before almost all public interest job hunting, so a lot of students go through OCI as a safeguard. But then once they have a summer job offer, there's less urgency in finding something else. Second, there's the ease of it: although 20% of people may strike out at OCI, as far as job hunts go, the process is an easy one. Just follow the instructions. The public interest job hunt requires more initiative and traditional job-hunting skills, which many students who are straight-through just don't have. Third, there's the money--even "just for the summer," which turns into "just for a year to pay down debt," etc.

Thanks very much, that was very helpful.

[MiracleMile777]

What did you do your first summer(@2L)? when did you learn how to outline and study for law schoo exams(during your first year)?

Given that this is my first summer.....I'm working PI, which is definitely what most rising 2Ls are doing....And yea, learning how to study for law school exams is something that you pick up during the first year - especially when you start getting into grind mode......as I'm sure you've gathered from TLS, its pretty much all about outlining and just getting all the material in some sort of cognizable form.

What i'd usually do is make a massive outline, and then spend time memorizing and reducing, until I'd have maybe a 40 pager to keep going over - it was an unbelievably tedious process....but it pays off - still, its important that you find what works best for you....I know a lot of people who didn't even really make outlines in the traditional sense, and still did really well

What other schools did you get into? @2L

I got into a bunch of T14s, and didn't get into a school more highly ranked than NYU

Also what did your schedule look like

First semester, everyone takes Civ Pro, Contracts, and then the sections split between torts and crim....the Civ Pro class is gonna be for 5 credits, so you'll be putting in an extra 9:00-9:50 class during the week.....

Second semester, youll take torts/crim (whichever you didn't take first semester), Admin (great class), and an elective (property, Con law, international, tax, corps)

You'll also be balancing Lawyering with those classes through out the year.

[RonnyDworkin]

What did you do your first summer(@2L)? when did you learn how to outline and study for law schoo exams(during your first year)?

Given that this is my first summer.....I'm working PI, which is definitely what most rising 2Ls are doing....And yea, learning how to study for law school exams is something that you pick up during the first year - especially when you start getting into grind mode......as I'm sure you've gathered from TLS, its pretty much all about outlining and just getting all the material in some sort of cognizable form.

What i'd usually do is make a massive outline, and then spend time memorizing and reducing, until I'd have maybe a 40 pager to keep going over - it was an unbelievably tedious process....but it pays off - still, its important that you find what works best for you....I know a lot of people who didn't even really make outlines in the traditional sense, and still did really well

What other schools did you get into? @2L

I got into a bunch of T14s, and didn't get into a school more highly ranked than NYU

Also what did your schedule look like

First semester, everyone takes Civ Pro, Contracts, and then the sections split between torts and crim....the Civ Pro class is gonna be for 5 credits, so you'll be putting in an extra 9:00-9:50 class during the week.....

Second semester, youll take torts/crim (whichever you didn't take first semester), Admin (great class), and an elective (property, Con law, international, tax, corps)

You'll also be balancing Lawyering with those classes through out the year.

Thanks for offering to help. 2 things.

1) Can you discuss some of the 1L professors? Teaching methods, approachability, etc.? Outside of office hours were they generally accessible (e.g., often see them outside of class, maybe drop in outside of office hour times, etc.)?

2) Might I ask which elective you decided to take your spring semester? Are there certain professors you would recommend for a particular elective? What about the property class?


Thanks!

[MiracleMile777]

What did you do your first summer(@2L)? when did you learn how to outline and study for law schoo exams(during your first year)?

Given that this is my first summer.....I'm working PI, which is definitely what most rising 2Ls are doing....And yea, learning how to study for law school exams is something that you pick up during the first year - especially when you start getting into grind mode......as I'm sure you've gathered from TLS, its pretty much all about outlining and just getting all the material in some sort of cognizable form.

What i'd usually do is make a massive outline, and then spend time memorizing and reducing, until I'd have maybe a 40 pager to keep going over - it was an unbelievably tedious process....but it pays off - still, its important that you find what works best for you....I know a lot of people who didn't even really make outlines in the traditional sense, and still did really well

What other schools did you get into? @2L

I got into a bunch of T14s, and didn't get into a school more highly ranked than NYU

Also what did your schedule look like

First semester, everyone takes Civ Pro, Contracts, and then the sections split between torts and crim....the Civ Pro class is gonna be for 5 credits, so you'll be putting in an extra 9:00-9:50 class during the week.....

Second semester, youll take torts/crim (whichever you didn't take first semester), Admin (great class), and an elective (property, Con law, international, tax, corps)

You'll also be balancing Lawyering with those classes through out the year.

Thanks for offering to help. 2 things.

1) Can you discuss some of the 1L professors? Teaching methods, approachability, etc.? Outside of office hours were they generally accessible (e.g., often see them outside of class, maybe drop in outside of office hour times, etc.)?

2) Might I ask which elective you decided to take your spring semester? Are there certain professors you would recommend for a particular elective? What about the property class?


Thanks!

1)

All of the professors I had last year were approachable.....except one....but he was a rare type of prof - definitely the outlier, etc.....The teaching method is the standard method that I'm sure you've seen discussed on this site. Some teachers are funnier than others, and some use the socratic much more effectively. When you get your teachers, PM me and I'll let you know if I had any of them

I think what you'll see within the first couple of weeks at school is that you'll just vibe better with certain professors. There are those that like to be engaged from a very high level, and there are those that don't really care about the verbiage you use to ask your questions....I think that getting along with the professors will come down to personality type....but I'd definitely say that you should go up during the breaks (sometimes - don't be the kid that goes up there during every break, to just go up there during the break) and introduce yourself during the first couple of classes. I think the professors will like that and it'll probably make you feel a little bit more comfortable when you get called on

2)

PM me for this question

[aldoleopold]

Do students with significant others tend to live farther away from the law school? Is socializing geared towards the single-bar set or do married law students have opportunities to get to know their classmates outside of a lecture-setting?

[neyaae]

Did you work or do any volunteer work during 1L? Or school groups? Is there time for that kind of thing, and are there opportunities available?