Rising Harvard 2L taking questions

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haus

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Re: Rising Harvard 2L taking questions

Postby haus » Mon Jun 06, 2011 10:14 pm

DoubleChecks wrote:
jjjjjjjj wrote:chances grades come before Wednesday?


lol no way, wed is already way earlier than id hoped. that being said, i dont mind you checking incessantly from here on out and letting us no if it does come in early :P


I will say yes, grades will be in before Wednesday, but I will not commit to which Wednesday.

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DoubleChecks

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Re: Rising Harvard 2L taking questions

Postby DoubleChecks » Mon Jun 06, 2011 10:40 pm

haus wrote:
DoubleChecks wrote:
jjjjjjjj wrote:chances grades come before Wednesday?


lol no way, wed is already way earlier than id hoped. that being said, i dont mind you checking incessantly from here on out and letting us no if it does come in early :P


I will say yes, grades will be in before Wednesday, but I will not commit to which Wednesday.


lol you do know that they're due this wednesday right?

haus

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Re: Rising Harvard 2L taking questions

Postby haus » Mon Jun 06, 2011 10:45 pm

DoubleChecks wrote:
haus wrote:
DoubleChecks wrote:
jjjjjjjj wrote:chances grades come before Wednesday?


lol no way, wed is already way earlier than id hoped. that being said, i dont mind you checking incessantly from here on out and letting us no if it does come in early :P


I will say yes, grades will be in before Wednesday, but I will not commit to which Wednesday.


lol you do know that they're due this wednesday right?


Although not necessarily relevant here, when I wrote the above, I was thinking of the Douglas Adams quote: "I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by."

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adameus

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Re: Rising Harvard 2L taking questions

Postby adameus » Tue Jun 07, 2011 12:24 pm

DoubleChecks wrote:
haus wrote:
DoubleChecks wrote:
jjjjjjjj wrote:chances grades come before Wednesday?


lol no way, wed is already way earlier than id hoped. that being said, i dont mind you checking incessantly from here on out and letting us no if it does come in early :P


I will say yes, grades will be in before Wednesday, but I will not commit to which Wednesday.


lol you do know that they're due this wednesday right?



1L grades will be out tomorrow? Are you serious?

jjjjjjjj

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Re: Rising Harvard 2L taking questions

Postby jjjjjjjj » Tue Jun 07, 2011 12:35 pm

1L grades will be out tomorrow? Are you serious?[/quote]

so they say

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DoubleChecks

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Re: Rising Harvard 2L taking questions

Postby DoubleChecks » Tue Jun 07, 2011 10:38 pm

adameus wrote:1L grades will be out tomorrow? Are you serious?


haha imagine if you didnt read this thread till 5 pm tomorrow. and yeah, HLS sent us an email saying grades due to be posted tomorrow at 5 (which means i should be lining up on myplan by 4:30 :P)

APimpNamedSlickback

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.

Postby APimpNamedSlickback » Tue Jun 07, 2011 10:43 pm

.
Last edited by APimpNamedSlickback on Thu Aug 25, 2011 6:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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DoubleChecks

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Re: Rising Harvard 2L taking questions

Postby DoubleChecks » Tue Jun 07, 2011 11:39 pm

APimpNamedSlickback wrote:the suspense is killing me. i am leaving work at 5:05 and walking directly to happy hour. i plan on taking 5 shots for every pass i get.


but 10 for every H, amirite?

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Moxie

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Re: Rising Harvard 2L taking questions

Postby Moxie » Wed Jun 08, 2011 9:18 am

DoubleChecks wrote:
APimpNamedSlickback wrote:the suspense is killing me. i am leaving work at 5:05 and walking directly to happy hour. i plan on taking 5 shots for every pass i get.


but 10 for every H, amirite?


:lol:

All the 2Ls at my firm have been mocking me for still caring about grades. I'm excited to never have to stress this much about grades ever again.

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adameus

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Re: Rising Harvard 2L taking questions

Postby adameus » Wed Jun 08, 2011 1:00 pm

DoubleChecks wrote:
adameus wrote:1L grades will be out tomorrow? Are you serious?


haha imagine if you didnt read this thread till 5 pm tomorrow. and yeah, HLS sent us an email saying grades due to be posted tomorrow at 5 (which means i should be lining up on myplan by 4:30 :P)


There is no need to hit myplan for the grades. You can get them on myhls. Save yourself the 500 person queue.

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saito816

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Re: Rising Harvard 2L taking questions

Postby saito816 » Thu Jun 09, 2011 1:30 pm

So what are the workout facilities like? Are they at least decent, and is there a separate graduate one or just one combined with the undergrad?

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Re: Rising Harvard 2L taking questions

Postby lawschoolconflicted » Thu Jun 09, 2011 6:12 pm

saito816 wrote:So what are the workout facilities like? Are they at least decent, and is there a separate graduate one or just one combined with the undergrad?


this was on another page that answers part of your question:

adameus wrote:
lawschoolconflicted wrote:Thanks for taking questions! Could you talk about the gym at Harvard and whether students find time to work out (I know this is important for me). Also, is it shared with the undergrad, is it crowded, are there any cool classes offered, is it included in tuition? Thanks again!


There is a gym right on the law school campus (Hemenway Gym). It is however open to the whole school, so there are a good # of undergrads and other grad school students there. It can be somewhat crowded at times, but there are like 4 or 5 other gyms around campus, so I never found it unbearable.

Yes the gym is included in tuition. The classes are also included in tuition. Hemenway has a good selection of daily classes including spinning, yoga, step classes, zumba, etc. I've been to the spin classes a few times and there are always bikes open, however I've also found them kind of easy compared with spinning classes I've done elsewhere. The MAC gym also has a good selection of daily classes and is less than a 10 minute walk from the law school campus.

Here is a link to the Spring/summer schedule of classes at Hemenway. (note: this is reduced from the normal # of classes during the school year).
--LinkRemoved--

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adameus

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Re: Rising Harvard 2L taking questions

Postby adameus » Fri Jun 10, 2011 11:54 am

saito816 wrote:So what are the workout facilities like? Are they at least decent, and is there a separate graduate one or just one combined with the undergrad?


To answer the other part of your question. In my opinion they are slightly better than decent.

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Re: Rising Harvard 2L taking questions

Postby hiyahh1 » Wed Sep 12, 2018 12:33 pm

WhatWouldHolmesDo? wrote:
Knock wrote:How common are LPs and how damaging are they at OCI?


The short answer is really uncommon, but quite damaging.

Though I believe the official curve recommends that the bottom 10% of the class receives LPs, it seems that professors are actually discouraged from giving them. How the administration views LPs is a bit hidden from us, but most professors understand them to be discretionary. When asked, every professor I had this year basically said something along the lines of "to get an LP, you have to earn it." In other words, unless you really blow it (i.e. not study, not complete the test, never go to class), you will pass. That seems to be most professors' approach, though there may be a few outliers who more strictly conform to the curve or believe in giving LPs on principle. One of my professors said he "didn't like" to give them. Others just said not to worry about it. What that translates to is probably 1-2 LPs handed out in most large classes...they'd be even more rare in seminars.

One of the reasons professors are so reluctant to dole out LPs - and this gets to the second part of your question - is because they really do screw you over. I haven't gone through EIP (the early interview program in August) but what I've picked up from others makes it sound like an LP is a really serious blot on your resume that is difficult to overcome. My sense is that it will likely kill your chances at a top-tier firm and generally make the job search significantly tougher. It's a red flag, plain and simple. That said, as long as you have some other stuff going for you or an otherwise decent transcript, you'd almost certainly still be able to get a BigLaw job. And if your transcript is otherwise filled with H's, it would do significantly less harm. All of that assumes one LP. If someone had multiple LPs. I'd imagine it would be basically impossible to get a BigLaw job unless you're a fantastic interview or are otherwise extremely impressive.

But yeah, as noted above, it's really not a serious concern, even for classes you might struggle in. It's scary first semester when you haven't taken any law school exams yet, but then you realize it's not much to worry about it.


This is such an irresponsible post (based, btw, exclusively on rumors it appears) that it makes me sick. I got 1 LP first semester and almost dropped out because of stupid shit like this. Ended up sticking with it, got only 1 H second semester and at EIP ended up w/ 11 callbacks at BigLaw firms that pay scale including 1 V10, 3 V20, 2 V30, and a lit boutique. Ended up going V20.

We go to Harvard, we are all in the running for virtually every firm with a medium to large summer class size. Is an LP a red flag? Sure. But so is being socially awkward or not knowing about the firm or arriving two minutes late or not having any work experience before law school, or applying to a city you've never lived in that's not NYC. And if you look at the statistics OCS provides, a lot of V10 firms are calling back 65-80% of HLS students, and I guarantee more than one in five HLS students has ONE of those other red flags. I had one interviewer at a V40 firm notice my LP and literally ask me my LSAT score to prove that I was smart and when I told him, he gave me an in room CB. And I'm not a spectacular interviewer, I just didn't let posts like this affect my confidence or bid strategy.

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Pneumonia

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Re: Rising Harvard 2L taking questions

Postby Pneumonia » Wed Sep 12, 2018 12:50 pm

hiyahh1 wrote:
WhatWouldHolmesDo? wrote:
Knock wrote:How common are LPs and how damaging are they at OCI?


The short answer is really uncommon, but quite damaging.

Though I believe the official curve recommends that the bottom 10% of the class receives LPs, it seems that professors are actually discouraged from giving them. How the administration views LPs is a bit hidden from us, but most professors understand them to be discretionary. When asked, every professor I had this year basically said something along the lines of "to get an LP, you have to earn it." In other words, unless you really blow it (i.e. not study, not complete the test, never go to class), you will pass. That seems to be most professors' approach, though there may be a few outliers who more strictly conform to the curve or believe in giving LPs on principle. One of my professors said he "didn't like" to give them. Others just said not to worry about it. What that translates to is probably 1-2 LPs handed out in most large classes...they'd be even more rare in seminars.

One of the reasons professors are so reluctant to dole out LPs - and this gets to the second part of your question - is because they really do screw you over. I haven't gone through EIP (the early interview program in August) but what I've picked up from others makes it sound like an LP is a really serious blot on your resume that is difficult to overcome. My sense is that it will likely kill your chances at a top-tier firm and generally make the job search significantly tougher. It's a red flag, plain and simple. That said, as long as you have some other stuff going for you or an otherwise decent transcript, you'd almost certainly still be able to get a BigLaw job. And if your transcript is otherwise filled with H's, it would do significantly less harm. All of that assumes one LP. If someone had multiple LPs. I'd imagine it would be basically impossible to get a BigLaw job unless you're a fantastic interview or are otherwise extremely impressive.

But yeah, as noted above, it's really not a serious concern, even for classes you might struggle in. It's scary first semester when you haven't taken any law school exams yet, but then you realize it's not much to worry about it.


This is such an irresponsible post (based, btw, exclusively on rumors it appears) that it makes me sick. I got 1 LP first semester and almost dropped out because of stupid shit like this. Ended up sticking with it, got only 1 H second semester and at EIP ended up w/ 11 callbacks at BigLaw firms that pay scale including 1 V10, 3 V20, 2 V30, and a lit boutique. Ended up going V20.

We go to Harvard, we are all in the running for virtually every firm with a medium to large summer class size. Is an LP a red flag? Sure. But so is being socially awkward or not knowing about the firm or arriving two minutes late or not having any work experience before law school, or applying to a city you've never lived in that's not NYC. And if you look at the statistics OCS provides, a lot of V10 firms are calling back 65-80% of HLS students, and I guarantee more than one in five HLS students has ONE of those other red flags. I had one interviewer at a V40 firm notice my LP and literally ask me my LSAT score to prove that I was smart and when I told him, he gave me an in room CB. And I'm not a spectacular interviewer, I just didn't let posts like this affect my confidence or bid strategy.


Note that the post you're replying to is from 2011. You're right that it doesn't accord with the way LPs work now.

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Re: Rising Harvard 2L taking questions

Postby hiyahh1 » Wed Sep 12, 2018 2:19 pm

Pneumonia wrote:
hiyahh1 wrote:
WhatWouldHolmesDo? wrote:
Knock wrote:How common are LPs and how damaging are they at OCI?


The short answer is really uncommon, but quite damaging.

Though I believe the official curve recommends that the bottom 10% of the class receives LPs, it seems that professors are actually discouraged from giving them. How the administration views LPs is a bit hidden from us, but most professors understand them to be discretionary. When asked, every professor I had this year basically said something along the lines of "to get an LP, you have to earn it." In other words, unless you really blow it (i.e. not study, not complete the test, never go to class), you will pass. That seems to be most professors' approach, though there may be a few outliers who more strictly conform to the curve or believe in giving LPs on principle. One of my professors said he "didn't like" to give them. Others just said not to worry about it. What that translates to is probably 1-2 LPs handed out in most large classes...they'd be even more rare in seminars.

One of the reasons professors are so reluctant to dole out LPs - and this gets to the second part of your question - is because they really do screw you over. I haven't gone through EIP (the early interview program in August) but what I've picked up from others makes it sound like an LP is a really serious blot on your resume that is difficult to overcome. My sense is that it will likely kill your chances at a top-tier firm and generally make the job search significantly tougher. It's a red flag, plain and simple. That said, as long as you have some other stuff going for you or an otherwise decent transcript, you'd almost certainly still be able to get a BigLaw job. And if your transcript is otherwise filled with H's, it would do significantly less harm. All of that assumes one LP. If someone had multiple LPs. I'd imagine it would be basically impossible to get a BigLaw job unless you're a fantastic interview or are otherwise extremely impressive.

But yeah, as noted above, it's really not a serious concern, even for classes you might struggle in. It's scary first semester when you haven't taken any law school exams yet, but then you realize it's not much to worry about it.


This is such an irresponsible post (based, btw, exclusively on rumors it appears) that it makes me sick. I got 1 LP first semester and almost dropped out because of stupid shit like this. Ended up sticking with it, got only 1 H second semester and at EIP ended up w/ 11 callbacks at BigLaw firms that pay scale including 1 V10, 3 V20, 2 V30, and a lit boutique. Ended up going V20.

We go to Harvard, we are all in the running for virtually every firm with a medium to large summer class size. Is an LP a red flag? Sure. But so is being socially awkward or not knowing about the firm or arriving two minutes late or not having any work experience before law school, or applying to a city you've never lived in that's not NYC. And if you look at the statistics OCS provides, a lot of V10 firms are calling back 65-80% of HLS students, and I guarantee more than one in five HLS students has ONE of those other red flags. I had one interviewer at a V40 firm notice my LP and literally ask me my LSAT score to prove that I was smart and when I told him, he gave me an in room CB. And I'm not a spectacular interviewer, I just didn't let posts like this affect my confidence or bid strategy.


Note that the post you're replying to is from 2011. You're right that it doesn't accord with the way LPs work now.


Fair enough. I am just salty b/c it's one of the top results when you google "hls lp biglaw" and as a result was among the data points that made me consider dropping out.

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Pneumonia

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Re: Rising Harvard 2L taking questions

Postby Pneumonia » Wed Sep 12, 2018 2:39 pm

hiyahh1 wrote: Fair enough. I am just salty b/c it's one of the top results when you google "hls lp biglaw" and as a result was among the data points that made me consider dropping out.


No worries. Definitely not worth dropping out over. According to the larger HLS thread there is a Sears Prize winner from a recent year that got 4DS/1LP for fall of 1L. Sometimes that's just the way the cards fall. I think most firms/interviewers know that now.

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Re: Rising Harvard 2L taking questions

Postby Wumbo » Mon Oct 08, 2018 2:17 am

hiyahh1 wrote:
WhatWouldHolmesDo? wrote:
Knock wrote:How common are LPs and how damaging are they at OCI?


The short answer is really uncommon, but quite damaging.

Though I believe the official curve recommends that the bottom 10% of the class receives LPs, it seems that professors are actually discouraged from giving them. How the administration views LPs is a bit hidden from us, but most professors understand them to be discretionary. When asked, every professor I had this year basically said something along the lines of "to get an LP, you have to earn it." In other words, unless you really blow it (i.e. not study, not complete the test, never go to class), you will pass. That seems to be most professors' approach, though there may be a few outliers who more strictly conform to the curve or believe in giving LPs on principle. One of my professors said he "didn't like" to give them. Others just said not to worry about it. What that translates to is probably 1-2 LPs handed out in most large classes...they'd be even more rare in seminars.

One of the reasons professors are so reluctant to dole out LPs - and this gets to the second part of your question - is because they really do screw you over. I haven't gone through EIP (the early interview program in August) but what I've picked up from others makes it sound like an LP is a really serious blot on your resume that is difficult to overcome. My sense is that it will likely kill your chances at a top-tier firm and generally make the job search significantly tougher. It's a red flag, plain and simple. That said, as long as you have some other stuff going for you or an otherwise decent transcript, you'd almost certainly still be able to get a BigLaw job. And if your transcript is otherwise filled with H's, it would do significantly less harm. All of that assumes one LP. If someone had multiple LPs. I'd imagine it would be basically impossible to get a BigLaw job unless you're a fantastic interview or are otherwise extremely impressive.

But yeah, as noted above, it's really not a serious concern, even for classes you might struggle in. It's scary first semester when you haven't taken any law school exams yet, but then you realize it's not much to worry about it.


This is such an irresponsible post (based, btw, exclusively on rumors it appears) that it makes me sick. I got 1 LP first semester and almost dropped out because of stupid shit like this. Ended up sticking with it, got only 1 H second semester and at EIP ended up w/ 11 callbacks at BigLaw firms that pay scale including 1 V10, 3 V20, 2 V30, and a lit boutique. Ended up going V20.

We go to Harvard, we are all in the running for virtually every firm with a medium to large summer class size. Is an LP a red flag? Sure. But so is being socially awkward or not knowing about the firm or arriving two minutes late or not having any work experience before law school, or applying to a city you've never lived in that's not NYC. And if you look at the statistics OCS provides, a lot of V10 firms are calling back 65-80% of HLS students, and I guarantee more than one in five HLS students has ONE of those other red flags. I had one interviewer at a V40 firm notice my LP and literally ask me my LSAT score to prove that I was smart and when I told him, he gave me an in room CB. And I'm not a spectacular interviewer, I just didn't let posts like this affect my confidence or bid strategy.


This is a hero post. The times have obviously changed, and the market has obviously improved, yet you still hear shit like this based off nothing but rumors. As a 3L at HLS I think everything you said is spot on.

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TripTrip

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Re: Rising Harvard 2L taking questions

Postby TripTrip » Mon Oct 08, 2018 3:26 pm

A few years ago we surveyed 344 EIP participants about self-reported (but anonymous) grades, EIP results, and other soft metrics. We then ran a regression to test the predictive value of grades on callbacks and offers. Generally, grades are much more predictive of the conversion rates from EIP to callbacks than callbacks to offers, so the former was the focus.

Based on this analysis, getting an LP instead of a P is approximately equivalent to getting a P instead of an H. In other words, getting straight Ps is about the same as getting one H, one LP, and the rest Ps.

There are obviously limitations to this model and I doubt it would hold up in extreme cases (anyone would be suspicious of 5 Hs with 5 LPs). That said, it's pretty clear that an LP is not insurmountable resume blot.



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