University of Miami

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
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FalafelWaffle
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Re: University of Miami

Postby FalafelWaffle » Wed Mar 09, 2011 4:51 pm

rad law wrote:Cut-and-pasted from another thread.


Sticker for Miami? Almost $200k? Surely you jest. If you're taking loans or aren't independently wealthy, biglaw is one of the only ways to effectively pay off this debt without becoming a pauper.

Miami is a highly desirable market for those from T25ish schools with connections to the city. Combine that with SA classes are down. Judging from NALP, there are maybe like 40-50 2L and 1L SA spots in whole city. A few firms still aren't hiring. The ones that do hire tend to be hiring 3, 4, 5 SAs maybe. Small classes, unlike years past when the economy was good. Firms love to have their pick of grads from highly prestigious schools and will take them over UM grads with regularity.

Even assuming that Miami snapped up all the SA's left in the city, that would be only 10%ish of the people getting Biglaw. But judging from Calton Fields's most recent class, nothing even close to this is happening. Not a single UM student hired at the Miami office (or in all of FL). Oh and by the way, Carlton Fields in one of the few firms that is actually doing well in the new economy. --LinkRemoved--

Recent hiring statistics confirm this, as UM does not even make the Top 50 for NLJ250 (rough approximation for biglaw) placement). The cutoff for #50 was 11%. What specific percentage we don't know, but judging from the state of FL's legal economy, it's horrendous. http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... hbxlogin=1 (for the record, for the class of 2009, they didn't make the cutoff when the cutoff was 13.2%, either).

UM doesn't even lock down the local market. UF's prestige is equal to or greater than UM's in South FL.

Debt should be the #1 issue for prospective UM students, as it will be sheer, dumb luck whether you land a biglaw SA. Anyone without full tuition or close to it needs to do some soul searching, as COL alone will put you close to $60k in the hole for three years. Small firms are available if you want to work for $35k-$50k in a high COL area. Making $40k when you have $60k debt is okay. But you may not even get a legal job. As for ASA, PD, City Atty., etc. positions, local govts. are cash strapped and aren't hiring many, if at all.


I know for a fact that the Miami PD/DA offices are very desirable and competitive. There are plenty of people from T14s who would love an ADA position in Miami. Great experience.

MNHockey09
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Re: University of Miami

Postby MNHockey09 » Wed Mar 09, 2011 5:44 pm

Perhaps there is some truth to this, but if anyone is going to Miami expecting biglaw, then they're delusional. Its a given that they most likely will not, however I know for a fact some small firms pay 6 figure salaries, and medium firms as well. Biglaw firms are not the only ones that pay well, but they do pay the most. Also I'm about 6 years away from "graduating" from law school so the economy will be looking very different at that time, which definitely affects my perspective

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Grizz
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Re: University of Miami

Postby Grizz » Wed Mar 09, 2011 6:08 pm

MNHockey09 wrote:Perhaps there is some truth to this, but if anyone is going to Miami expecting biglaw, then they're delusional. Its a given that they most likely will not, however I know for a fact some small firms pay 6 figure salaries, and medium firms as well. Biglaw firms are not the only ones that pay well, but they do pay the most. Also I'm about 6 years away from "graduating" from law school so the economy will be looking very different at that time, which definitely affects my perspective


People from prestigious schools want those medium sized firms as well, we just don't have a lot of statistics on that kind of hiring.

For class of 2014, the vast majority of large and midsize firm recruitment will happen at the beginning of 2L year, 1.5 yrs. from now.

MNHockey09
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Re: University of Miami

Postby MNHockey09 » Wed Mar 09, 2011 11:34 pm

I'll take that with a grain of salt, considering as you say there are no statistics or evidence to back it up. I doubt T-14's are looking for medium sized firms in southern Florida, as for the "25K-40K" salaries, the public sector makes around 50K, i doubt those are the salaries that Miami grads can expect, probably more around 70K-80K based on what I've read. No one from Cornell wants to rush down and not work in NYC but instead get a nice 75K job in Fort Lauderdale

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FalafelWaffle
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Re: University of Miami

Postby FalafelWaffle » Thu Mar 10, 2011 1:14 am

MNHockey09 wrote:I'll take that with a grain of salt, considering as you say there are no statistics or evidence to back it up. I doubt T-14's are looking for medium sized firms in southern Florida, as for the "25K-40K" salaries, the public sector makes around 50K, i doubt those are the salaries that Miami grads can expect, probably more around 70K-80K based on what I've read. No one from Cornell wants to rush down and not work in NYC but instead get a nice 75K job in Fort Lauderdale


ITE, some T14ers will take most anything. And anyway, Miami is a desirable market.

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Grizz
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Re: University of Miami

Postby Grizz » Thu Mar 10, 2011 2:39 am

MNHockey09 wrote:I'll take that with a grain of salt, considering as you say there are no statistics or evidence to back it up. I doubt T-14's are looking for medium sized firms in southern Florida, as for the "25K-40K" salaries, the public sector makes around 50K, i doubt those are the salaries that Miami grads can expect, probably more around 70K-80K based on what I've read. No one from Cornell wants to rush down and not work in NYC but instead get a nice 75K job in Fort Lauderdale


When 50% or so of T14 kids can't get biglaw and they have connections to FL (or even wanted FL from the beginning), yes, they do want those midsize jobs. Trust me on this one.

MNHockey09
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Re: University of Miami

Postby MNHockey09 » Thu Mar 10, 2011 5:02 am

Maybe they do, just not sure that there will be a large enough amount of them that will even make their presence significant. Bottom line, if you do well at Miami you will be fine, if not then you may be in trouble. If you get a good chunk of money from them, then its not too different from going anywhere else because you are going to have to perform well no matter where you go, I've heard the same things said about every single school outside of the top 20, everyone always wants a situation where they can just coast by during law school and still get paid 100K, the reality is that for just about everyone, its sink or swim

singhnitin
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Re: University of Miami

Postby singhnitin » Thu Mar 10, 2011 7:04 am

Hi

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Grizz
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Re: University of Miami

Postby Grizz » Thu Mar 10, 2011 11:55 am

MNHockey09 wrote:Maybe they do, just not sure that there will be a large enough amount of them that will even make their presence significant. Bottom line, if you do well at Miami you will be fine, if not then you may be in trouble. If you get a good chunk of money from them, then its not too different from going anywhere else because you are going to have to perform well no matter where you go, I've heard the same things said about every single school outside of the top 20, everyone always wants a situation where they can just coast by during law school and still get paid 100K, the reality is that for just about everyone, its sink or swim


Just don't pay $200k or even $100k for a good chance of sinking is all. Full scholarship or close to it wouldn't be so bad.

drummerboy
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Re: University of Miami

Postby drummerboy » Thu Mar 10, 2011 12:16 pm

im looking at just tuition for miami. the books, room, and board will be covered. what do you guys think?

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FalafelWaffle
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Re: University of Miami

Postby FalafelWaffle » Thu Mar 10, 2011 1:07 pm

drummerboy wrote:im looking at just tuition for miami. the books, room, and board will be covered. what do you guys think?


So around $37,000/yr? Definitely not ideal, but could be worse. I think the opposite situation would be ideal-full tuition and you pay for room and books. Better than nothing though. Thank your...parents? Books aren't quite that bad, but room and board in Miami isn't cheap. Slightly over 100k worth of debt, I wouldn't take it for the lack of mobility, but if you want Miami and are willing to accept the risks it entails, go for it. Realize that you would probably have an easier time finding a job, and Miami would also probably be a better school, at least in terms of facilities-use, if it weren't so damned big-not quite as big as Georgetown or Harvard, but 400+ students is a lot for a market that is not as insular and does not prefer UM graduates as much as it pretends to. Even a 200 person class would be far from a sure bet, but the gigantic class size and limited market and distribution of grads (the vast, vast, vast majority will try to find work in South Florida as opposed to dispersing, so you will be competing with basically everyone for the same market) does not put me at ease. I still say, if you're not a Florida resident, and have never been to Florida (and I forget if it's you or someone else) you are making a gigantic mistake by going to UM. Do not EVER go to a regional/local law school blind. Live in Miami for at least a year before you make a six-figure commitment to it. If you're from Miami or have lived there or have family there, that does not apply to you, but it's something everyone should consider.

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FeelTheHeat
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Re: University of Miami

Postby FeelTheHeat » Thu Mar 10, 2011 1:14 pm

drummerboy wrote:im looking at just tuition for miami. the books, room, and board will be covered. what do you guys think?


From what I've read, you change your mind by the hour. I think you seriously need to step back and evaluate your standing, maybe take a year off or two to raise your LSAT. Don't force a $120k debt burden on something you appear to be wildly uncertain about. I wouldn't go to UM on anything short of less of thank 10k a year with no stips, but to each their own.

drummerboy
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Re: University of Miami

Postby drummerboy » Thu Mar 10, 2011 4:26 pm

you know, youre almost right. mind is actually changed by the minute not hour. I any event, i visited um today. didnt get the warm fuzzies i got from stetson. if uf and fsu are dings, stetson it will be. and with some scholly and help from dear old mom and dad to boot. definitely dooable. i plan to stay in florida and my experience at stetson was far far superior. um is just a regional school that happens to cost more money in a more expensive city. hence um is out. ps sorry about the vacillations but at the end of the day, a decision will be made and ill be happy with it. at least i still have the time for mental masturbation. let me have some fun. once i take the plunge, its over :D

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FalafelWaffle
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Re: University of Miami

Postby FalafelWaffle » Thu Mar 10, 2011 6:26 pm

drummerboy wrote:you know, youre almost right. mind is actually changed by the minute not hour. I any event, i visited um today. didnt get the warm fuzzies i got from stetson. if uf and fsu are dings, stetson it will be. and with some scholly and help from dear old mom and dad to boot. definitely dooable. i plan to stay in florida and my experience at stetson was far far superior. um is just a regional school that happens to cost more money in a more expensive city. hence um is out. ps sorry about the vacillations but at the end of the day, a decision will be made and ill be happy with it. at least i still have the time for mental masturbation. let me have some fun. once i take the plunge, its over :D


Isn't Stetson just as expensive as UM? If I had to choose between the two, I'd choose UM, UNLESS I wanted to live/work in Tampa-it is pretty well respected there. I know of someone who managed to take their Stetson JD to Orlando, but it's never a sure bet.

I almost think you should reapply. UF and FSU certainly aren't doing stellar ITE, but they are better bets in terms of money. While there isn't significant "BigLaw" per se in every Florida city, I think a UF degree will give you good mobility throughout Florida, as well as the Southeast provided you do well. I know of people who have gone there and clerked for some muckety muck District Court in Georgia and Louisiana-LA with ties, GA without. Cheaper, better...

Don't count on getting a job in South Florida from Stetson (and by SoFla I refer to Palm Beach County and everything south of it). If that's ok with you, go for it.

drummerboy
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Re: University of Miami

Postby drummerboy » Thu Mar 10, 2011 7:38 pm

unexpectantly got into emory today with scholly. im kissing florida goodbye. :D

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FeelTheHeat
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Re: University of Miami

Postby FeelTheHeat » Thu Mar 10, 2011 7:43 pm

drummerboy wrote:unexpectantly got into emory today with scholly. im kissing florida goodbye. :D


Congrats, what were your numbers?

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FalafelWaffle
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Re: University of Miami

Postby FalafelWaffle » Thu Mar 10, 2011 8:06 pm

drummerboy wrote:unexpectantly got into emory today with scholly. im kissing florida goodbye. :D


Grats man. I know the feeling of wanting to leave Florida, having grown up there.

MNHockey09
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Re: University of Miami

Postby MNHockey09 » Mon Mar 14, 2011 3:24 am

I was recently recommended by a Miami 1L to not attend if given the chance because apparently job opportunities are as bad as advertised, and 1L and 2L's have nearly no shot whatsoever at securing a paying job during the summer. I don't think there is as expensive of a school out there with less employment opportunities, it seems they're almost a unique among law schools right now in that regard. Things are bound to bounce back eventually, but honestly I'm not sure if Miami students have ever been primed for great job prospects in the past either. Miami is very tempting for many, but most should come to the realization that it is such an unnecessary risk to attend there.

tziporahc
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Re: University of Miami

Postby tziporahc » Tue Mar 15, 2011 5:40 pm

Miami is NOT worth sticker. The South Florida legal market has been hit hard and has not recovered. I know several recent Miami grads that are looking for a job 9 months after graduating. The situation is so dire that the school hired many recent grads for a 1 year fellowship, and paying them $2000 a month.

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nightlight
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Re: University of Miami

Postby nightlight » Sat Mar 26, 2011 7:15 pm

Miami 2L here.

I spent a good chunk of time answering questions last year but unfortunately don't have time to do the same this year. That said, not much has changed. Many of your questions are the same, so I suggest you just scroll through last year's threads.

Current issues:

The job market: sucks. While it's true that Miami generally has the market on lock, it ain't exactly the Harvard of the South.... or even the Harvard of Florida, for that matter. If you come here without connections and want a job, it can be done if you're willing to put in the work. Our advantages lie in that (1) Miamians love UM, (2) we're above the other So Fla schools, and (3) we have year round networking/employment opportunities. The latter is significant if you plan on working in Miami. While I feel like crying every time I look at my loans, I am still confident that I will be able to find a decent job within a reasonable amount of time before/after graduating.

The rankings: disappointing. The joint degree programs hurt us because our employment % took an undue hit for those who are continuing their education. I came to Miami intending on going the JD/LLM Tax route, however, they really do push a ridiculous assortment of joint degree programs on us. It's starting to get annoying because it seems like we're turning into a supermarket of graduate degrees. Law and music... law and communications... law and [random program].... enough is enough. I haven't seen the US News data to comment on what else hurt us, perhaps it was the fact that we continue to admit 500 students. Regardless, both Dean White and the student body were surprised to see the drop. I don't think it was warranted. I mean, how much can a law school really change in ONE year?

The price: outrageous. It really is. Just be sure you REALLY want to be a lawyer.

See the prior year threads for more information. I hardly ever visit TLS anymore, so my sincere apologies if you ask a question and I don't get right back to you. Best of luck to everyone, especially the kid who "unexpectantly" got into Emory. Do try to brush up on your grammar before the fall. ;)

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nightlight
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Re: University of Miami

Postby nightlight » Sat Mar 26, 2011 7:24 pm

P.S. Don't get the impression that I dislike Miami. Again, read the old threads and you'll see that I had some pretty nice things to say about it.

SixStrings11
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Re: University of Miami

Postby SixStrings11 » Sun Mar 27, 2011 8:24 pm

nightlight - Thanks for taking the time to answer some of the questions on here. What you said reinforces a lot of the things other current Miami Law students told me. I'm waiting to hear back from less expensive options because I'd be paying sticker at Miami... But I have a couple connections in the area and think I can make the most of it if I go to school there.

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Kendi
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Re: University of Miami

Postby Kendi » Sat Jun 25, 2011 4:54 pm

I just finished reading the Miami boards and I am super psyched about starting class. Especially happy to read that UM has a lock on the South Florida market.

I agree that Miamians love The U. Oh, I read where we shouldn’t refer to Miami as “The U,” is that true or was that just one person’s opinion? See you soon!

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Grizz
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Re: University of Miami

Postby Grizz » Sat Jun 25, 2011 5:39 pm

Kendi wrote:Especially happy to read that UM has a lock on the South Florida market.


It doesn't. UF does about as well, and it's a pretty desirable market, so a lot of people leave to go to prestigious schools and come back. Plus, South FL is not as parochial as other Southern markets.

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Kendi
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Re: University of Miami

Postby Kendi » Sat Jun 25, 2011 8:01 pm

rad law wrote:It doesn't. UF does about as well, and it's a pretty desirable market, so a lot of people leave to go to prestigious schools and come back. Plus, South FL is not as parochial as other Southern markets.

Before enrolling into Miami I was told UF and FSU are a bit of a factor in South Florida (mainly through alumni). I was also advised, as you mentioned, Ivy snowbird grads have a fair shot. For a while I actually believed it and considered heading north, but later thought better of it―my decision was mostly to do with the weather forecast than analytical reasoning!

The one surprise was that Miami did not offer much more $$ than the northern schools. In the end, all is good, and looking forward to my daily ride down US-1.




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