Emory 2L Taking Q's

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.

Which should I work on?

LJ work
14
25%
This thread
43
75%
 
Total votes: 57

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JusticeHarlan
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Re: Emory 2L Taking Q's

Postby JusticeHarlan » Tue Mar 15, 2011 9:59 pm

MrAnon wrote:You realize there is a difference between the economy of an area and its legal market, right? NYC has tons of lawyers, but many of them don't make much.

The numbers I posted were NLJ250 numbers. Surely those are at least making ends meet, no?

And if that's not the kind of legal market you were talking about, what was your point bringing it up?

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ArthurDigbySellers
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Re: Emory 2L Taking Q's

Postby ArthurDigbySellers » Tue Mar 15, 2011 10:05 pm

FGCUguy123 wrote:
Omerta wrote:
MrAnon wrote:Why is the weather in Boston relevant to this thread? If people want weather they should consider school in Miami.

Yeah, except Miami (as a city and law school) sucks and you're hoping for top 5% so you can get W&C or welcome to 1-800-ABOGADO.

I'm a 1L at Emory right now. How much value does mock trial have? I have zero interest in doing moot court. Right now, I'm well inside the grade onto LR band (in the top 1%). I'm going to do the write on anyway, but (1) if disaster hits this semester, what are the odds of top 10% plus good write on making LR? (2) is it worth trying out for mock trial in my situation?


Haha that is so true. I'm from SF and I got into UM but I didn't want to work at Pedro Fernandez's ticket clinic in Heighleigh with $38,000+\year in debt from a tier 2 school.


Good call. Lots of UM lawyers in Miami, but the U has a fucking gigantic class. UM is all right for Miami, but Miami isn't the greatest market. And Miami is certainly no Fordham or USC with regards to its market.

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ArthurDigbySellers
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Re: Emory 2L Taking Q's

Postby ArthurDigbySellers » Tue Mar 15, 2011 10:07 pm

rad law wrote:
MrAnon wrote:I was simply suggesting that if someone is going to attend a school based on weather then Miami is a better choice.

Job prospects from both schools are comparable in their respective regions. Both Atlanta and Miami have comparable economies. I'm not sure by what metric Miami sucks.


At least Emory has a 20% chance of getting you biglaw. Can't say the same for Miami. Miami has a decent big firm scene, but it's not as parochial as other FL markets, and kids from T25ish schools, many of whom with Miami ties, snap up the biglaw jobs. Also UF has about the same prestige as UM in South FL. UM is not a good idea.


A thousand times this. If you're going to go to a local or semi-regional school, it helps to have a parochial market like, say, Boston.

MrAnon
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Re: Emory 2L Taking Q's

Postby MrAnon » Tue Mar 15, 2011 10:57 pm

This thread seems to take as a given that UGA does not directly compete with Emory for the same jobs.

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gobucks101
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Re: Emory 2L Taking Q's

Postby gobucks101 » Tue Mar 15, 2011 10:58 pm

MrAnon wrote:This thread seems to take as a given that UGA does not directly compete with Emory for the same jobs.


Again what is your purpose in a thread where people considering Emory ask Emory students about Emory? You are none of the above.

FGCUguy123
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Re: Emory 2L Taking Q's

Postby FGCUguy123 » Tue Mar 15, 2011 11:09 pm

gobucks101 wrote:
MrAnon wrote:This thread seems to take as a given that UGA does not directly compete with Emory for the same jobs.


Again what is your purpose in a thread where people considering Emory ask Emory students about Emory? You are none of the above.


+1

Metaread
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Re: Emory 2L Taking Q's

Postby Metaread » Wed Mar 16, 2011 2:29 am

This thread got derailed. Hoping some Emory 2L and 3L can return and answer some questions instead.

Here's some:
-What are Emory's employment prospects like? How helpful is the career development office? I've heard praise and criticism.
-How is the OCI situation?
-What neighborhoods would you recommend for housing? Could you describe the housing near Emory that you chose, and what it's like?
-What would you say is the one thing you like most about Emory law? The one thing you most dislike?

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jamaicanjynx
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Re: Emory 2L Taking Q's

Postby jamaicanjynx » Wed Mar 16, 2011 2:38 am

justadude55 wrote:So it's 160k or 50k coming from Emory?



Bimodal salary distribution is not unique to Emory.

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jamaicanjynx
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Re: Emory 2L Taking Q's

Postby jamaicanjynx » Wed Mar 16, 2011 3:03 am

Metaread wrote:This thread got derailed. Hoping some Emory 2L and 3L can return and answer some questions instead.


2L here.


-What are Emory's employment prospects like? How helpful is the career development office? I've heard praise and criticism.

I've seen the stats floating around here on one of the other Emory threads so I won't rehash that. I think it's agreed that your prospects are excellent in Atlanta (compared to other GA schools), great in the SE, decent in NY and require a good deal of hustling in other markets. If you want to go work somewhere else, it's highly recommended that you work on developing your own network there. Imo OCS is only going to be as helpful as you make it. I guess it's a matter of expectations. When I came to law school I never came with the expectation that OCS was going to be particularly helpful in getting my job. I'm on a friendly basis with my career advisor who's been very good about responding my resume review requests since 1L year. Also she reached out to me during 2L year to ask if I had gotten a job and if I wanted to set up a meeting to set up a strategy.(Already had a job so I didn't need the help, but I appreciated her checking in). I have another friend who got a job offer largely in part due to this same career advisor's initiative. My view of OCS here is that they can be helpful but you have to take the time to go make sure your advisor knows you and knows what kind of job you want so they can keep you in mind and help you in practical ways.

My criticism (which the school seems to acknowledge to some extent) is that OCS does not have as strong connections to the small/mid law firms as UGA and GSU do. But that should only be a major deterrent if you want to go that route and you have no clue about how to network.

-How is the OCI situation?
Got my job outside of OCI. I had interviews & callbacks via OCI though. As with many other schools, you will see the same core group of ppl interviewing at OCI with the majority of the firms. Regardless of where you end up, please do not go into law school expecting to get your job via OCI. There are just too many variables at play. I don't have specific stats for other schools so I can't speak authoritatively on how we compare to other schools in terms of number of firms.


-What neighborhoods would you recommend for housing? Could you describe the housing near Emory that you chose, and what it's like?

https://housing.emory.edu/off-campus/home.cfm You can find cheap rooms and apartments on that site. I live in a complex about 2 miles from the school. There are A LOT of complexes in close proximity. People like living in the Highlands, especially 2Ls and 3Ls. Lots of people rent rooms or apartments in the Decatur area immediately surrounding the law school as well. Any of the Post or Gables complexes nearby will have a good number of law students. Clairmont Reserve, Presidents Park and Campus Crossings are all popular complexes as well.

-What would you say is the one thing you like most about Emory law? The one thing you most dislike?

It doesn't have the perpetually stressed/uptight atmosphere that seems prevalent at other law schools (and to an extent, the legal community). People here are generally friendly. Atlanta has a nice vibe and there's always a plethora of things to do when you want to take a break from school.

Honestly, I cannot think of anything really egregious with ELS right now. The things that upset me about law school have to deal with law school as an institution and are not endemic to Emory. I'm going to have to think more about that one.

MrAnon
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Re: Emory 2L Taking Q's

Postby MrAnon » Thu Mar 17, 2011 12:38 pm

Looking more and more each day like Miami and Emory are peer schools.

--LinkRemoved--

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Mickey Quicknumbers
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Re: Emory 2L Taking Q's

Postby Mickey Quicknumbers » Thu Mar 17, 2011 12:46 pm

MrAnon wrote:Looking more and more each day like Miami and Emory are peer schools.

--LinkRemoved--

Do you enjoy trolling on-topic threads?

spets
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Re: Emory 2L Taking Q's

Postby spets » Thu Mar 17, 2011 1:22 pm

MrAnon wrote:Looking more and more each day like Miami and Emory are peer schools.

--LinkRemoved--


I'm not quite sure why this is so difficult for you. This is a thread for people to ask current Emory students questions regarding their experiences with the law school. Your posts deprecating Emory are better suited by posting in the other threads regarding Emory's drop:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=150298&start=25
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=150371
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=133286&start=1400 (even the Emory 2011 thread)

I have faith that you'll figure this out one day.

kaspar
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Re: Emory 2L Taking Q's

Postby kaspar » Sat Mar 19, 2011 2:48 pm

Hi guys!
I'm back, and ready to answer more questions. Who's got questions??

I spoke at length with a dean about the rankings, and am happy to answer any questions about that also. I know it's important to 0L's, so shoot! There has been a lot of talk about it around TLS that I've seen (mostly ragging on Emory), so I'm here to give the Emory perspective to anyone who's interested.

8)

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whuts4lunch
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Re: Emory 2L Taking Q's

Postby whuts4lunch » Sat Mar 19, 2011 5:23 pm

Are Emory Law students able to take courses in Emory's other graduate schools as electives? I am interested in taking some business courses as electives.

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gobucks101
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Re: Emory 2L Taking Q's

Postby gobucks101 » Sat Mar 19, 2011 5:26 pm

whuts4lunch wrote:Are Emory Law students able to take courses in Emory's other graduate schools as electives? I am interested in taking some business courses as electives.


Yes you can take up to 6 credits in any graduate school or professional schools. The credits count as pass/fail

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whuts4lunch
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Re: Emory 2L Taking Q's

Postby whuts4lunch » Sat Mar 19, 2011 5:29 pm

how many credits = 1 class?

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gobucks101
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Re: Emory 2L Taking Q's

Postby gobucks101 » Sat Mar 19, 2011 5:35 pm

whuts4lunch wrote:how many credits = 1 class?



Depends. To be considered full time you have to take 12 credits a semester. First semester you will take 16 credits each semester so you will have 32 credits heading into 2L year. This lets you take Fall a bit easier for job hunting. 90 credits to graduate. Most classes are 3 credits i.e. 1.5 hours a day twice a week (m&w, t&th are the typical ones). Some classes that meet once a week for 2 hours are 2 credit classes. I do have 2 classes that meet once a week from 4-7 for 3 credits.

crit_racer
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Re: Emory 2L Taking Q's

Postby crit_racer » Mon Mar 21, 2011 5:18 pm

kaspar wrote:Hi guys!
I'm back, and ready to answer more questions. Who's got questions??

I spoke at length with a dean about the rankings, and am happy to answer any questions about that also. I know it's important to 0L's, so shoot! There has been a lot of talk about it around TLS that I've seen (mostly ragging on Emory), so I'm here to give the Emory perspective to anyone who's interested.

8)


Did he mention a hard strategy for regaining their previous ranking? What are they going to do to fix this? Other schools (GW) have had big, temporary drops in the rankings...did the dean talk about ELS's drop like it was temporary or like it was a serious long term threat?

kaspar
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Re: Emory 2L Taking Q's

Postby kaspar » Mon Mar 21, 2011 9:34 pm

Naturally, he is sure the rankings drop is temporary. That should be taken with a grain of salt, and the reasoning behind his belief is more important. To that end...

The drop was wholly due to the low employed at graduation rate. So, why did that happen?

1. Emory has only one program in place to "game" the employment statistics. It places jobless Emory grads with local employers (small/mid-sized firms and public interest) on an internship/short-term basis with an eye toward long term unemployment. It was put in place at the end of Calendar 2009, so is not reflected in the 2011 USNWR rank, which counts 2009 grads' employment stats. Other schools had similar programs in place for a year or two before this, so their programs are reflected in their employment statistics.

1a. Similarly-ranked schools have other programs to increase their employment numbers, especially employment at graduation. At least 3 schools ranked 17-30 actively employ graduates on a part-time basis, with no intention to keep them after the reporting period. At least 1 sends out emails to all jobless graduates, "offering" them a position at the school for 9 months, noting that if the graduate DOES NOT REJECT the offer, the school considers them "employed" for USNWR (which defines "employed" as having an "offer of employment").

2. Emory does not pay its unemployed graduates "bar stipends" as other schools do. This would take unemployed students studying for the bar out of the "unemployed" category.

3. USNWR reclassified all graduates seeking higher graduate education as "unemployed." This is probably the weakest reasoning, as it should affect all schools equally. However, Emory had an unusually high number of 2009 graduates who went for LLMs/PHds/MBAs/etc (numbering >10 when it normally is <5). This could also be attacked on the reasoning that these people are going for higher degrees because they couldn't find jobs, so would be counted as unemployed anyway.

4. As much as the email from Emory has been pilloried, there is something to be said for the number of Emory students who seek big firm jobs, and big firm jobs in other cities. Look at the schools that we fell behind. UMN, Iowa, IUB, UIUC, W&M, etc. Many students at these schools are committed to their regions, and are interested in jobs with small- and mid-sized firms. Emory, on the other hand, draws a larger portion of students who are seeking big firm work, and students who are seeking work in their home regions, or in DC, NY, CA, TX, etc.

In a down economy, it is much harder to find big-firm work, and particularly big-firm work outside your school's region, than it is to find local, small-firm work. This is reflected in the NLJ hiring numbers, which show Emory above every one of these schools, among others. This isn't really reflective of Emory's reputation or "hiring power," but rather the preferences of its students. Do you think a graduate from any of these schools would have an advantage over an Emory grade in getting a job in a "neutral" region (say, CA or NYC biglaw)? I hardly think so. Of course, as ATL pointed out, this argument doesn't explain why Emory should drop more than, say, Harvard, where lots of students are seeking big-firm work, but this is fallacious: the question is not, why did Emory drop relative to Harvard, but why did Emory drop relative to its peers.

What's the bottom line? The 65% number is probably accurate for at graduation employment. This reflects the number of graduates who have jobs through OCI, hustling during 2L and 3L years, and through personal connections. The remainder generally study for the bar, then apply for jobs afterwards, which is properly reflected in the 9-month number: above 90% if I recall. However, the 65% number is probably close to accurate for other schools in Emory's peer group as well. They have just done a better job "gaming" their stats. I doubt that will continue into the future.

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nicole88
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Re: Emory 2L Taking Q's

Postby nicole88 » Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:18 pm

Hey everyone, I'm sure this post is bound to get some unwanted reactions, BUT I am a female who currently lives with all males and is looking to continue this next year. I'll be a 1L next year and I'm looking for male roommates preferably to rent a house, not an apartment, but I'm flexible. Send me a private message if interested!

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whuts4lunch
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Re: Emory 2L Taking Q's

Postby whuts4lunch » Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:14 am

Have any of you taken any of the "Doing Deals" electives? If so, what did you think about them?

MrAnon
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Re: Emory 2L Taking Q's

Postby MrAnon » Wed Mar 30, 2011 10:06 pm

kaspar wrote:Naturally, he is sure the rankings drop is temporary. That should be taken with a grain of salt, and the reasoning behind his belief is more important. To that end...

The drop was wholly due to the low employed at graduation rate. So, why did that happen?

1. Emory has only one program in place to "game" the employment statistics. It places jobless Emory grads with local employers (small/mid-sized firms and public interest) on an internship/short-term basis with an eye toward long term unemployment. It was put in place at the end of Calendar 2009, so is not reflected in the 2011 USNWR rank, which counts 2009 grads' employment stats. Other schools had similar programs in place for a year or two before this, so their programs are reflected in their employment statistics.

1a. Similarly-ranked schools have other programs to increase their employment numbers, especially employment at graduation. At least 3 schools ranked 17-30 actively employ graduates on a part-time basis, with no intention to keep them after the reporting period. At least 1 sends out emails to all jobless graduates, "offering" them a position at the school for 9 months, noting that if the graduate DOES NOT REJECT the offer, the school considers them "employed" for USNWR (which defines "employed" as having an "offer of employment").

2. Emory does not pay its unemployed graduates "bar stipends" as other schools do. This would take unemployed students studying for the bar out of the "unemployed" category.

3. USNWR reclassified all graduates seeking higher graduate education as "unemployed." This is probably the weakest reasoning, as it should affect all schools equally. However, Emory had an unusually high number of 2009 graduates who went for LLMs/PHds/MBAs/etc (numbering >10 when it normally is <5). This could also be attacked on the reasoning that these people are going for higher degrees because they couldn't find jobs, so would be counted as unemployed anyway.

4. As much as the email from Emory has been pilloried, there is something to be said for the number of Emory students who seek big firm jobs, and big firm jobs in other cities. Look at the schools that we fell behind. UMN, Iowa, IUB, UIUC, W&M, etc. Many students at these schools are committed to their regions, and are interested in jobs with small- and mid-sized firms. Emory, on the other hand, draws a larger portion of students who are seeking big firm work, and students who are seeking work in their home regions, or in DC, NY, CA, TX, etc.

In a down economy, it is much harder to find big-firm work, and particularly big-firm work outside your school's region, than it is to find local, small-firm work. This is reflected in the NLJ hiring numbers, which show Emory above every one of these schools, among others. This isn't really reflective of Emory's reputation or "hiring power," but rather the preferences of its students. Do you think a graduate from any of these schools would have an advantage over an Emory grade in getting a job in a "neutral" region (say, CA or NYC biglaw)? I hardly think so. Of course, as ATL pointed out, this argument doesn't explain why Emory should drop more than, say, Harvard, where lots of students are seeking big-firm work, but this is fallacious: the question is not, why did Emory drop relative to Harvard, but why did Emory drop relative to its peers.

What's the bottom line? The 65% number is probably accurate for at graduation employment. This reflects the number of graduates who have jobs through OCI, hustling during 2L and 3L years, and through personal connections. The remainder generally study for the bar, then apply for jobs afterwards, which is properly reflected in the 9-month number: above 90% if I recall. However, the 65% number is probably close to accurate for other schools in Emory's peer group as well. They have just done a better job "gaming" their stats. I doubt that will continue into the future.




Soooo what's the bottom line here? Are things getting better or worse? I think it stands to reason that the situation could really deteriorate when next years rankings hit newstands.

treeey86
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Re: Emory 2L Taking Q's

Postby treeey86 » Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:10 pm

Emory University ( the university system, not the particular law school) will not let its law school collapse. It spent way too much money bringing in top faculty and developing the Emory Law brand for that to happen. As Kapar mentioned, Emory, like other schools of similar rank, was hit hard by the recession. The school will rebound, and Emory's reputation among biglaw is not going to just suddenly fall apart. The University and the Law School is taking action to ensure that.

If you go to Emory, realize this isn't 2006 where firms competed for you. You need to work hard, network, be persistent, and have a little bit of luck on your side to nab the big firm jobs. Or you need to set more realistic expectations for your first post-graduation job.

MrAnon
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Re: Emory 2L Taking Q's

Postby MrAnon » Thu Mar 31, 2011 1:29 am

Who said anything about a collapse?

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jamaicanjynx
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Re: Emory 2L Taking Q's

Postby jamaicanjynx » Fri Apr 01, 2011 12:03 am

whuts4lunch wrote:Have any of you taken any of the "Doing Deals" electives? If so, what did you think about them?



They're not all equal in terms of amount of workload and usefulness. Overall, they're among the more practical classes you'll take in law school, but are obviously designed for those who really want to practice corporate law. Contract Drafting is one that I think most students would like, even if they're not going the corporate route. Also, you're graded based on multiple assignments (which I prefer to having one final exam).




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