New York Law School (NYLS) 1L Forum

[aherro88]

Understandable, it's one of those things where I have confidence I can end up in the top 15% after 1L and get some scholly money, but with that much money on the line it seems like a hell of a gamble.

I looked at CUNY for a minute and realized they don't even have a business law clinic, so that option was thrown out quickly

[zanda]

Understandable, it's one of those things where I have confidence I can end up in the top 15% after 1L and get some scholly money, but with that much money on the line it seems like a hell of a gamble.

I looked at CUNY for a minute and realized they don't even have a business law clinic, so that option was thrown out quickly

There's no reason to be confident you will (I realize you said "can," but it being possible isn't nearly as relevant) finish in the top 15%. I would also question whether everyone or even a substantial percentage of the top 15% at NYLS get corporate work. I'm a 2L at NYU and there are so many people above median who were unable to get such work. I'm paying a little less than sticker and am wondering whether it was worth it. Re-take. Seriously. If you're passionate about law, don't go to a school that almost completely forecloses the possibility of working in law.

[romothesavior]

Understandable, it's one of those things where I have confidence I can end up in the top 15% after 1L and get some scholly money, but with that much money on the line it seems like a hell of a gamble.

I looked at CUNY for a minute and realized they don't even have a business law clinic, so that option was thrown out quickly

1. Talk to any 1L, 2L, or 3L about the bolded. They will laugh at you. I laugh at people every time I hear this. You are going to school with hundreds of other people with very similar intelligence, numbers, work ethic, and backgrounds. You cannot bank on being in the top 15%. Your odds are strongly against you that you will. Would you bet 220k on poor odds at a casino? No. Then don't do it in law school, either. You may think you are smarter/more hard working than your classmates, but once you see that you are all on the same page on Day 1 and once you see how law school exams work, you will quickly realize what a poor gamble this is. Maybe you'll be in the top 15%, but there are thousands of law students who go in with this exact same mentality every year, and they don't do it.

2. Being top 15% at NYLS is unlikely to get you anything resembling NYC biglaw. Enjoy paying off 220k in debt with a non-biglaw starting salary.

3. Don't chose a law school based on things like "business law clinics." Clinics and specific programs are nice, but they shouldn't be your motivation for X or Y school.

4. You have a good GPA and you sound like a pretty smart guy. Don't sell yourself short. Take a year off, get some experience (or just kick it for a year), and bust your ass on the LSAT. I can tell you flat out that I wish I had taken a year off just to work and avoid jumping straight into law school. You really should do yourself a favor and do something for a year, retake, and reapply to go to better schools with scholarship money.

[lawfreak]

Understandable, it's one of those things where I have confidence I can end up in the top 15% after 1L and get some scholly money, but with that much money on the line it seems like a hell of a gamble.

I looked at CUNY for a minute and realized they don't even have a business law clinic, so that option was thrown out quickly

From my understanding, clinic's are not what land you a job. In fact, the only thing to worry about when looking for a job is your school rank and your own rank.

What's the point of clinic's? Anyone know?

[Coolgrnmen]

Understandable, it's one of those things where I have confidence I can end up in the top 15% after 1L and get some scholly money, but with that much money on the line it seems like a hell of a gamble.

I looked at CUNY for a minute and realized they don't even have a business law clinic, so that option was thrown out quickly

From my understanding, clinic's are not what land you a job. In fact, the only thing to worry about when looking for a job is your school rank and your own rank.

What's the point of clinic's? Anyone know?

Misinformed...
What employers look for when they are hiring is not school rank/ class rank (necessarily). Equally important is your abilities. They don't want to train you from the ground up. Clinics actually allow you to sit on an actual case and work it - at least some of them.
Taking a clinic won't land you a job, but neither will being at the top of your class. Both will land you many interviews but you must shine in the interviews.

[zanda]

Understandable, it's one of those things where I have confidence I can end up in the top 15% after 1L and get some scholly money, but with that much money on the line it seems like a hell of a gamble.

I looked at CUNY for a minute and realized they don't even have a business law clinic, so that option was thrown out quickly

From my understanding, clinic's are not what land you a job. In fact, the only thing to worry about when looking for a job is your school rank and your own rank.

What's the point of clinic's? Anyone know?

Misinformed...
What employers look for when they are hiring is not school rank/ class rank (necessarily). Equally important is your abilities. They don't want to train you from the ground up. Clinics actually allow you to sit on an actual case and work it - at least some of them.
Taking a clinic won't land you a job, but neither will being at the top of your class. Both will land you many interviews but you must shine in the interviews.

Disregard essentially all of this.

Abilities are NOT equally important relative to school and class rank. Firms expect to have to train you completely. Nobody knows a thing after graduating law school. Taking a clinic will NOT land you an interview. Class rank and/or school rank will. A clinic, like student organizations and journals, is a soft.

Please stop spreading blatant falsehoods. The law schools themselves are already spreading enough false information.

[Coolgrnmen]

Understandable, it's one of those things where I have confidence I can end up in the top 15% after 1L and get some scholly money, but with that much money on the line it seems like a hell of a gamble.

I looked at CUNY for a minute and realized they don't even have a business law clinic, so that option was thrown out quickly

From my understanding, clinic's are not what land you a job. In fact, the only thing to worry about when looking for a job is your school rank and your own rank.

What's the point of clinic's? Anyone know?

Misinformed...
What employers look for when they are hiring is not school rank/ class rank (necessarily). Equally important is your abilities. They don't want to train you from the ground up. Clinics actually allow you to sit on an actual case and work it - at least some of them.
Taking a clinic won't land you a job, but neither will being at the top of your class. Both will land you many interviews but you must shine in the interviews.

Disregard essentially all of this.

Abilities are NOT equally important relative to school and class rank. Firms expect to have to train you completely. Nobody knows a thing after graduating law school. Taking a clinic will NOT land you an interview. Class rank and/or school rank will. A clinic, like student organizations and (at least secondary) journals, is a soft.

Please stop spreading blatant falsehoods. The law schools themselves are already spreading enough false information.

That's idiotic of you to say...grades and ranking get you the interviews...they don't get you the jobs...if that were true then no one in any school outside the first tier would get biglaw....and that's just not true...

[zanda]

From my understanding, clinic's are not what land you a job. In fact, the only thing to worry about when looking for a job is your school rank and your own rank.

What's the point of clinic's? Anyone know?

Misinformed...
What employers look for when they are hiring is not school rank/ class rank (necessarily). Equally important is your abilities. They don't want to train you from the ground up. Clinics actually allow you to sit on an actual case and work it - at least some of them.
Taking a clinic won't land you a job, but neither will being at the top of your class. Both will land you many interviews but you must shine in the interviews.

Disregard essentially all of this.

Abilities are NOT equally important relative to school and class rank. Firms expect to have to train you completely. Nobody knows a thing after graduating law school. Taking a clinic will NOT land you an interview. Class rank and/or school rank will. A clinic, like student organizations and (at least secondary) journals, is a soft.

Please stop spreading blatant falsehoods. The law schools themselves are already spreading enough false information.

That's idiotic of you to say...grades and ranking get you the interviews...they don't get you the jobs...if that were true then no one in any school outside the first tier would get biglaw....and that's just not true...

1) you're the one who said school and class rank AND clinics both earn you interviews
2) the rest of your post is so illogical that I can't even imagine what you thought was going on. I'm trying to place myself in the mind of an illiterate and try to figure out how one could think that my post supports the conclusion that nobody outside the first tier gets big law, but I simply can't. Congratulations, your idiocy has left my speechless. May G-d have mercy on all of our souls.
3) you're clearly a troll. nobody in law school, even NYLS, is this illiterate, illogical, and gullible. innocent people might see your post and decide to go 200k in debt for Dumbass University School of Law. they wouldn't be without fault, but neither would you. As the wise Fez often said, "Good day sir!"

[Coolgrnmen]

1) you're the one who said school and class rank AND clinics both earn you interviews
2) the rest of your post is so illogical that I can't even imagine what you thought was going on. I'm trying to place myself in the mind of an illiterate and try to figure out how one could think that my post supports the conclusion that nobody outside the first tier gets big law, but I simply can't. Congratulations, your idiocy has left my speechless. May G-d have mercy on all of our souls.
3) you're clearly a troll. nobody in law school, even NYLS, is this illiterate, illogical, and gullible. innocent people might see your post and decide to go 200k in debt for Dumbass University School of Law. they wouldn't be without fault, but neither would you. As the wise Fez often said, "Good day sir!"

Interviews don't necessarily = jobs. Illiterate? Seriously? Ok...you resort to that. That's fine. I obviously can't read, spell, or write in a manner that is up to a literate standard.

1) I'm aware of what I said, huge difference between getting an interview and getting a job. You are implying that if you get an interview, you get the job and that just isn't true. Especially if you suck at talking with people.
2) My post was not illogically conceived. Your statement that School rank + Class rank= Job is a falsehood. If that were true, then there would be no biglaw jobs left for the lower tiers because all the graduates in the higher ranked schools would have all the jobs. I'm sorry that I was arguing too many steps ahead of where you were, but that doesn't make it illogical. Your own idiocy is what leaves you speechless.
3) Troll...really? Why would I even bother with this forum if I were a troll? It's people like you that give the profession a bad reputation.
However, I like your Fez quote...I second the quote.

[zanda]

"I said good day!" (I must admit I planned that response as soon as I made the first Fez post.)

I'd call you out for completely making up things as to what I did or did not say, but you've been exposed as a troll and I can go to sleep at night knowing that nobody is going to lend your posts any credence.

[romothesavior]

Your statement that School rank + Class rank= Job is a falsehood.

This would all be good and well if he actually said that, but he did not.

Taking a clinic will NOT land you an interview. Class rank and/or school rank will.

[Coolgrnmen]

"I said good day!"

(sorry, I planned that one ahead of time)

As much as I dislike you right now, props for this...

[Coolgrnmen]

Your statement that School rank + Class rank= Job is a falsehood.

This would all be good and well if he actually said that, but he did not.

Taking a clinic will NOT land you an interview. Class rank and/or school rank will.

Holy shit...I stand corrected. WTF is wrong with me today?!?! I'm so off my game...

[Coolgrnmen]

"I said good day!" (I must admit I planned that response as soon as I made the first Fez post.)

I'd call you out for completely making up things as to what I did or did not say, but you've been exposed as a troll and I can go to sleep at night knowing that nobody is going to lend your posts any credence.

While you didn't say that they get you jobs, you said to disregard everything I said...

Then you went on to say exactly what I said...sans clinics help closing the deal

[nylawyer488]

IN RESPONSE TO COOLGRNMEN,

HE WRITES "In sum, if you want to work in NYC, NYLS is not a bad decision. If you can go to T14, or any other NYC school (except HOFSTRA), then you should probably choose the other."


Why not HOFSTRA coolgrnmen?

[Coolgrnmen]

IN RESPONSE TO COOLGRNMEN,

HE WRITES "In sum, if you want to work in NYC, NYLS is not a bad decision. If you can go to T14, or any other NYC school (except HOFSTRA), then you should probably choose the other."


Why not HOFSTRA coolgrnmen?

From TLS Profile
"Hofstra Law isn’t a fantastic school; it has a high tuition and limited job prospects for most of its graduates."
23% students reporting

I'm aware its ranked in T2...sue me for my opinion...

[romothesavior]

From TLS Profile
"Hofstra Law isn’t a fantastic school; it has a high tuition and limited job prospects for most of its graduates."
23% students reporting

I'm aware its ranked in T2...sue me for my opinion...

Your hypocrisy is overwhelming.

[joemoviebuff]

IN RESPONSE TO COOLGRNMEN,

HE WRITES "In sum, if you want to work in NYC, NYLS is not a bad decision. If you can go to T14, or any other NYC school (except HOFSTRA), then you should probably choose the other."


Why not HOFSTRA coolgrnmen?

From Numerous People Who've Gone to NYLS
"Hofstra NY Law School isn’t a fantastic school; it has a high tuition and shittyass job prospects for most of its graduates."
Most students reporting

I'm aware its ranked in T2...sue me for my opinion...

[nylawyer488]

I don't want to sue you for your opinion, I simply asked why you felt that way.

You just repeated exactly what this website said in its description of the school. But what do you know of Hofstra personally and why 'go anywhere else in NY except here'?

I am in the process of applying to several law schools and have already been accepted at a number of schools like Pace, St. Johns, Seton Hall, Catholic, Santa Clara, Albany.

So again, I just ask why anywhere except Hofstra? Because in this market it's difficult to get jobs coming out of a lot of New York schools.

[romothesavior]

I don't want to sue you for your opinion, I simply asked why you felt that way.

You just repeated exactly what this website said in its description of the school. But what do you know of Hofstra personally and why 'go anywhere else in NY except here'?

I am in the process of applying to several law schools and have already been accepted at a number of schools like Pace, St. Johns, Seton Hall, Catholic, Santa Clara, Albany.

So again, I just ask why anywhere except Hofstra? Because in this market it's difficult to get jobs coming out of a lot of New York schools.

I hate to break it to ya, but going to any of those schools will require you to change your name from "nylawyer" to "unemployednylawgraduatewithlotsofdebt."

[nylawyer488]

thats a positive response romo. didnt really ask for your input but thanks anyway.

frankly, i already work in a law firm and will make 100k plus upon graduation at the same firm.

dont make assumptions dick face, i was talking to the other guy not you.

[Coolgrnmen]

I don't want to sue you for your opinion, I simply asked why you felt that way.

You just repeated exactly what this website said in its description of the school. But what do you know of Hofstra personally and why 'go anywhere else in NY except here'?

I am in the process of applying to several law schools and have already been accepted at a number of schools like Pace, St. Johns, Seton Hall, Catholic, Santa Clara, Albany.

So again, I just ask why anywhere except Hofstra? Because in this market it's difficult to get jobs coming out of a lot of New York schools.

I've been catching lots of negative flack here so I've been getting defensive - sorry...

I don't know anything about those schools except St. Johns which is a decent option (Don't take advice from the people who got 170-180 on their LSAT...they are all elitists at Ivys that think it is impossible to get a job otherwise...)

I edited it to include CUNY in the do-not-go-to category, but the tuition is low enough where I guess it is counteracted.

Take a look at where the top NYC firms interview...maybe 10 interview at NYLS (if that) and less at HOFSTRA. That's why I said what I said. Where CUNY's job prospects are worse, the debt isn't nearly as much.

BUT - well educated people that go to law school on financial aid know that the debt can be forgiven after 10 yrs of payments if you do PI or 25 yrs of payments for anything else. That includes the income-contingent payment plan. Just wanted to point this out...

[bk1]

thats a positive response romo. didnt really ask for your input but thanks anyway.

frankly, i already work in a law firm and will make 100k plus upon graduation at the same firm.

dont make assumptions dick face, i was talking to the other guy not you.

Then go to the cheapest school possible if you already have a job in hand...

[nylawyer488]

yes, that's most likely going to be my move. ive gotten money at some schools ---actually up to 20k from one, so i feel compelled to go where id save the most.

my attitude is that working hard and going to a school which is right for YOU (not what US news says about ranking ) is the most important thing.

[romothesavior]

I don't know anything about those schools except St. Johns which is a decent option (Don't take advice from the people who got 170-180 on their LSAT...they are all elitists at Ivys that think it is impossible to get a job otherwise...)

Yeah, my professor who used to teach at St. John's and deal with throngs of unemployed 3Ls with 200k in debt (pre-ITE too) is a real Ivy elitist with no idea what St. John's is like.

Also, I love how anyone who actually has a grasp on the shitstorm economy is just an "Ivy elitist." I've never stepped foot on an Ivy campus. Hell, I'm not even at a T14.

Just keep telling yourself what you want to hear, coolgrnmen. Don't let reality get in the way of your ad hominems.