The Minnesota Legal Market - UMN, WM, UST, HM, Iowa/Wisc

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MinnesotaBigLaw11
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Re: The Minnesota Legal Market - UMN, WM, UST, HM, Iowa/Wisc

Postby MinnesotaBigLaw11 » Tue May 17, 2011 11:29 am

Taking questions again this week.

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minnbills
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Re: The Minnesota Legal Market - UMN, WM, UST, HM, Iowa/Wisc

Postby minnbills » Tue May 17, 2011 2:38 pm

Thanks again, you've been very thorough.

Is there a significant number of biglaw lawyers who hang up their own shingles in MN? I would imagine that for most practice areas, it's simply not feasible given the costs.

Also, I've heard that many MPLS-SP firms have close ties to the denver area, is this true? Is it common for lawyers to transition from one city to the other?

MinnesotaBigLaw11
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Re: The Minnesota Legal Market - UMN, WM, UST, HM, Iowa/Wisc

Postby MinnesotaBigLaw11 » Wed May 18, 2011 1:15 pm

Is there a significant number of biglaw lawyers who hang up their own shingles in MN? I would imagine that for most practice areas, it's simply not feasible given the costs.

Not sure that there are any more biglaw lawyers starting their own practices than in other big cities. The ability to leverage attorneys with different disciplines and expertise is very useful to clients, so the big firm route is appealing to most attornies with institutional clients. With the number of large companies headquartered in MN (most Fortune 500 per capita), we have a large number of in-house jobs for attorneys with a few years of experience.

Also, I've heard that many MPLS-SP firms have close ties to the denver area, is this true? Is it common for lawyers to transition from one city to the other?

Denver and the Twin Cities are similar cities with similar cultures, so in that way theyre are ties. Most large law firms in MPLS have Denver offices. Lawyers don't typically "transition" from one office to the other, but you work with clients on matters in other states all the time. With technology in its current state, there is rarely a need to travel.

MinnesotaBigLaw11
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Re: The Minnesota Legal Market - UMN, WM, UST, HM, Iowa/Wisc

Postby MinnesotaBigLaw11 » Fri Jun 17, 2011 11:54 am

Taking questions again this week.

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BackToTheOldHouse
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Re: The Minnesota Legal Market - UMN, WM, UST, HM, Iowa/Wisc

Postby BackToTheOldHouse » Fri Jun 17, 2011 12:22 pm

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geoduck
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Re: The Minnesota Legal Market - UMN, WM, UST, HM, Iowa/Wisc

Postby geoduck » Fri Jun 17, 2011 1:04 pm

So how is the soft-IP and entertainment law industry doing in Minneapolis? I've heard varied information as to how big of a professional arts scene there is in the Twin Cities. Is there much in entertainment outside of Lommen Abdo? I'm currently in television, so entertainment law is a big interest of mine, though I wouldn't scoff at trade secret or trademark work at all. I'll be a 1L at UMN this fall, for what it's worth.

Thanks for creating this thread, by the way!

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Re: The Minnesota Legal Market - UMN, WM, UST, HM, Iowa/Wisc

Postby paulinaporizkova » Fri Jun 17, 2011 1:13 pm

Along the same lines as an earlier question, I'm a MN resident going to UVa this fall. Do the big Minneapolis firms send reps to OGI in CVille? I'll be looking at the NYC market as well as the MN market. Will being a MN resident give me an advantage in interviewing with MSP firms at UVa? (if those firms are there of course)

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Re: The Minnesota Legal Market - UMN, WM, UST, HM, Iowa/Wisc

Postby bjsesq » Fri Jun 17, 2011 1:14 pm

paulinaporizkova wrote:Along the same lines as an earlier question, I'm a MN resident going to UVa this fall. Do the big Minneapolis firms send reps to OGI in CVille? I'll be looking at the NYC market as well as the MN market. Will being a MN resident give me an advantage in interviewing with MSP firms at UVa? (if those firms are there of course)


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Re: The Minnesota Legal Market - UMN, WM, UST, HM, Iowa/Wisc

Postby paulinaporizkova » Fri Jun 17, 2011 1:24 pm

bjsesq wrote:
paulinaporizkova wrote:Along the same lines as an earlier question, I'm a MN resident going to UVa this fall. Do the big Minneapolis firms send reps to OGI in CVille? I'll be looking at the NYC market as well as the MN market. Will being a MN resident give me an advantage in interviewing with MSP firms at UVa? (if those firms are there of course)


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MinnesotaBigLaw11
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Re: The Minnesota Legal Market - UMN, WM, UST, HM, Iowa/Wisc

Postby MinnesotaBigLaw11 » Fri Jun 17, 2011 3:16 pm

Cal/UVA/Coastal Schools
Most of the Minneapolis law firms typically do not recruit at Cal or UVA, as we rarely are going to find people interested in coming to MN from either of these and its a waste of an investment to fly out. That being said, you have a much better chance getting an SA position at one of these firms from one of these schools than from UMN, as the big firms will try very hard to bring in top law school graduates in once they have shown an interest and a connection to the area. Typically, however, it is on you as a student to make the firm aware of your interest.

Geoduck
I honestly don't know much about entertainment law and don't really know who in town practices in the area. Sorry.

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geoduck
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Re: The Minnesota Legal Market - UMN, WM, UST, HM, Iowa/Wisc

Postby geoduck » Fri Jun 17, 2011 3:47 pm

MinnesotaBigLaw11 wrote:Cal/UVA/Coastal Schools
Most of the Minneapolis law firms typically do not recruit at Cal or UVA, as we rarely are going to find people interested in coming to MN from either of these and its a waste of an investment to fly out. That being said, you have a much better chance getting an SA position at one of these firms from one of these schools than from UMN, as the big firms will try very hard to bring in top law school graduates in once they have shown an interest and a connection to the area. Typically, however, it is on you as a student to make the firm aware of your interest.

Geoduck
I honestly don't know much about entertainment law and don't really know who in town practices in the area. Sorry.


Oh well. It was worth a shot! Do you have any knowledge of the health of trademark law in the Twin Cities?

MinnesotaBigLaw11
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Re: The Minnesota Legal Market - UMN, WM, UST, HM, Iowa/Wisc

Postby MinnesotaBigLaw11 » Fri Jul 29, 2011 6:07 pm

geoduck wrote:
MinnesotaBigLaw11 wrote:Cal/UVA/Coastal Schools
Most of the Minneapolis law firms typically do not recruit at Cal or UVA, as we rarely are going to find people interested in coming to MN from either of these and its a waste of an investment to fly out. That being said, you have a much better chance getting an SA position at one of these firms from one of these schools than from UMN, as the big firms will try very hard to bring in top law school graduates in once they have shown an interest and a connection to the area. Typically, however, it is on you as a student to make the firm aware of your interest.

Geoduck
I honestly don't know much about entertainment law and don't really know who in town practices in the area. Sorry.


Oh well. It was worth a shot! Do you have any knowledge of the health of trademark law in the Twin Cities?


Trademark law, along with most IP law, is very strong in Minneapolis. You'll the big 2 firms have strong practices, along with most of our midsized firms, and even a handful of IP boutiques that operate very strong practices.

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Re: The Minnesota Legal Market - UMN, WM, UST, HM, Iowa/Wisc

Postby Whatisthis » Fri Jul 29, 2011 6:39 pm

MinnesotaBigLaw11,

There are a couple MN firms coming to UChicago's OCI. I love Minneapolis, but I have no ties to the region. I know that you said credentials trump, but how much of a disadvantage would I be at with no ties?

Also, thank you so much for taking questions!

MinnesotaBigLaw11
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Re: The Minnesota Legal Market - UMN, WM, UST, HM, Iowa/Wisc

Postby MinnesotaBigLaw11 » Mon Aug 01, 2011 3:38 pm

Credentials are more important, but ties are also important. You'll have to play up your reasons for wanting to work in MN, but I wouldn't worry too much coming from a top school. Just be prepared. Also, play the numbers and interview with the top three of four firms just in case. Some are more particular to locals than others.

MinnesotaBigLaw11
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Re: The Minnesota Legal Market - UMN, WM, UST, HM, Iowa/Wisc

Postby MinnesotaBigLaw11 » Thu Aug 18, 2011 10:35 am

Taking questions again this week.

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BackToTheOldHouse
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Re: The Minnesota Legal Market - UMN, WM, UST, HM, Iowa/Wisc

Postby BackToTheOldHouse » Thu Aug 18, 2011 11:08 am

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minnbills
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Re: The Minnesota Legal Market - UMN, WM, UST, HM, Iowa/Wisc

Postby minnbills » Thu Aug 18, 2011 11:59 am

Thanks again for taking questions. Sorry if any of these have been posed before.

1. With the recent volatility in the markets, do you anticipate another slowdown in hiring?
2. For a K-JDer, is there anything other than grades that you look for to demonstrate maturity, etc?
3. Do you happen to know if corporations in the twin cities hire recent law grads for non-legal positions?
4. What kind of value do state clerkships have for candidates at your firm?
5. Also, do you get swamped with emails from law students still looking for work?

MinnesotaBigLaw11
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Re: The Minnesota Legal Market - UMN, WM, UST, HM, Iowa/Wisc

Postby MinnesotaBigLaw11 » Thu Aug 18, 2011 3:46 pm

BackToTheOldHouse:
Some of the larger Minnesota firms hire 1Ls. Faegre, Dorsey and Robins come to mind. You'll have to tailor your resume to really demonstrate your connection to the area, and tailor your cover letter to demonstrate why you want to work in Minnesota after graduation.

As to December 1st, I vaguely remember this. I think it is connection with sending documents to HR but does not apply to networking with alumni from your school. Not sure though.

Minnbills:1)
There could be another slow down. It is too hard to predict. Needless to say, litigation, IP and bankruptcy/restructuring work are typically always in demand. Real estate, employment, trusts and estates and some of the other smaller niche practices have been slow for a while now.

2) I don't know what a K-JDer is.

3) Corporations in the twin cities definitely hire recent law grads for non-legal positions. Usually, these positions involve some form of compliance work.

4) State clerkships are usually only worthwhile for big firms if they are at the appellate level. However, smaller firms will still value a lower level state clerkship.

5) I get emails and calls from law students and recent graduates constantly. It is unfortunate, but we don't have the demand to hire everyone.

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minnbills
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Re: The Minnesota Legal Market - UMN, WM, UST, HM, Iowa/Wisc

Postby minnbills » Thu Aug 18, 2011 6:07 pm

Thanks, a K-JDer is somebody who went kindergarten through JD and never had real work experience.

MinnesotaBigLaw11
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Re: The Minnesota Legal Market - UMN, WM, UST, HM, Iowa/Wisc

Postby MinnesotaBigLaw11 » Mon Aug 22, 2011 10:28 am

Thanks, Minnbills. I had never heard that expression before. I wouldn't worry too much about seperating yourself regarding prior experience. Even people with significant prior work experience will often find that their prior experience is not as beneficial as one would think in a legal practice. It can be very helpful in IP, but not having significant prior work experience is not going to hurt the majority of applicants.

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minnbills
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Re: The Minnesota Legal Market - UMN, WM, UST, HM, Iowa/Wisc

Postby minnbills » Mon Aug 22, 2011 11:28 am

MinnesotaBigLaw11 wrote:Thanks, Minnbills. I had never heard that expression before. I wouldn't worry too much about seperating yourself regarding prior experience. Even people with significant prior work experience will often find that their prior experience is not as beneficial as one would think in a legal practice. It can be very helpful in IP, but not having significant prior work experience is not going to hurt the majority of applicants.


Thanks, I have one other question. It's been touched on before but I was curious if you could fill in the picture for me a bit more.

For schools like: Cornell, BU, and BC how deep into the class will firms in MN go?

Ultimately, I'd like to work in Minneapolis as I grew up here.

MinnesotaBigLaw11
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Re: The Minnesota Legal Market - UMN, WM, UST, HM, Iowa/Wisc

Postby MinnesotaBigLaw11 » Mon Aug 22, 2011 12:02 pm

Depends on the firm, but most will go deep into the Cornell class, especially for someone with Minnesota ties. Say top 50% of the class. GPA isn't as important as ties, but you have to demonstrate that you could actually compete. BC and BU are considered pretty much identical, though typically firms will be more willingly to hire from BC rather than BU, largely due to name recognition and general reputation. I'd say top 25% at either should get you an interview, but again, you'll have to be able to demonstrate ties to Minnesota through your resume/cover letter.

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Re: The Minnesota Legal Market - UMN, WM, UST, HM, Iowa/Wisc

Postby MinnesotaBigLaw11 » Wed Aug 31, 2011 10:28 pm

An additional note: Please keep your debt down if you want to work in the upper midwest. I often find laterals and law students with over 100k in debt that cannot afford work in the area. We don't and will never pay the high salaries as the law firms and companies on the coasts. If you want to work in Minnesota, Wisconsin, Iowa, etc., you'll want to have lower debt payments, as we don't pay the same costs. So if you go to Cornell, BC, BU, or any other top private school, keep your debt low. You'll be happy in the end.

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minnbills
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Re: The Minnesota Legal Market - UMN, WM, UST, HM, Iowa/Wisc

Postby minnbills » Wed Aug 31, 2011 11:03 pm

MinnesotaBigLaw11 wrote:An additional note: Please keep your debt down if you want to work in the upper midwest. I often find laterals and law students with over 100k in debt that cannot afford work in the area. We don't and will never pay the high salaries as the law firms and companies on the coasts. If you want to work in Minnesota, Wisconsin, Iowa, etc., you'll want to have lower debt payments, as we don't pay the same costs. So if you go to Cornell, BC, BU, or any other top private school, keep your debt low. You'll be happy in the end.


Thanks. This question may be a bit more difficult to answer.

Outside of the big firms like Dorsey, Robins, Faegre and others' who have satellite offices in MSP, what is the next level as far as firm size, starting pay et cetera. The common thread you'll hear on TLS is that there is no such thing as "midlaw."

To clarify, for firms like MossBarnett and GreeneEspel, how would you classify them? I've heard firms like this really only take laterals or clerks. How do they fit into the picture? Sorry if this is a bit of dumb question, but I'm just trying to get a better understanding of what the landscape is like in the twin cities.

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Re: The Minnesota Legal Market - UMN, WM, UST, HM, Iowa/Wisc

Postby bjsesq » Thu Sep 01, 2011 1:00 am

minnbills wrote:
MinnesotaBigLaw11 wrote:An additional note: Please keep your debt down if you want to work in the upper midwest. I often find laterals and law students with over 100k in debt that cannot afford work in the area. We don't and will never pay the high salaries as the law firms and companies on the coasts. If you want to work in Minnesota, Wisconsin, Iowa, etc., you'll want to have lower debt payments, as we don't pay the same costs. So if you go to Cornell, BC, BU, or any other top private school, keep your debt low. You'll be happy in the end.


Thanks. This question may be a bit more difficult to answer.

Outside of the big firms like Dorsey, Robins, Faegre and others' who have satellite offices in MSP, what is the next level as far as firm size, starting pay et cetera. The common thread you'll hear on TLS is that there is no such thing as "midlaw."

To clarify, for firms like MossBarnett and GreeneEspel, how would you classify them? I've heard firms like this really only take laterals or clerks. How do they fit into the picture? Sorry if this is a bit of dumb question, but I'm just trying to get a better understanding of what the landscape is like in the twin cities.


Felhaber starts at 100k, the three you mentioned at 110, Winthrop and Briggs at 120. I agree that Greene is among the most selective of the Minneapolis firms, i.e., is difficult to pull off straight out of law school.




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