DU 1L taking questions about DU, Denver, whatever

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DULaw13
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Re: DU 1L taking questions about DU, Denver, whatever

Postby DULaw13 » Mon Feb 28, 2011 10:26 pm

mrwarre85 wrote:What do you think the true expected salary is for someone who is top 25 %? I know its impossible to accurately answer questions like that given all the variables, but what is your best guess?? I'm also wondering how competitive DU is vs CU in Denver and the rest of Colorado. Like top 50% at CU equal chances with top 25% at DU?

Also, how many were in your class? 250 or so?

Many thanks,

Mike


Mike,

I am not sure that there is anyway to answer that question. Salary ranges are so broad. If you go work for the PD's office you start in $40's, if you go work for a small firm you could start anywhere between $40-70k. Then there are the few big law jobs out there that range from $105-160. It all just really depends on what kind of work you are going to do and what kind of grades you get. If you have your heart set on big law, then realistically you need to be in the top 10% of the class or higher. I know that this doesn't sound too tough, but keep in mind that all 100% of the class comes in thinking that they can/want to be in the top 10%. In terms of CU vs. DU, I am not sure that there is a huge difference if you are staying in Denver. DU has a good reputation here, and more importantly graduates a lot more people, so you are more likely to run into a lot of DU grads in interviews. That being said, CU is ranked higher and given some preferential treatment depending on the firm. I don't know how to equate percentage class rankings, but would tell you that if you want to get a job at a big firm you need to be top 10% at DU and probably at least in the upper 1/4 at CU. Keep in mind that a lot of people from higher ranked schools want to come to Denver, so many of the big law jobs go to T-20 folks. Hope this gives you a little insight.

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typ3
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Re: DU 1L taking questions about DU, Denver, whatever

Postby typ3 » Tue Mar 01, 2011 12:16 am

DULaw13 wrote:
mrwarre85 wrote:What do you think the true expected salary is for someone who is top 25 %? I know its impossible to accurately answer questions like that given all the variables, but what is your best guess?? I'm also wondering how competitive DU is vs CU in Denver and the rest of Colorado. Like top 50% at CU equal chances with top 25% at DU?

Also, how many were in your class? 250 or so?

Many thanks,

Mike


Mike,

I am not sure that there is anyway to answer that question. Salary ranges are so broad. If you go work for the PD's office you start in $40's, if you go work for a small firm you could start anywhere between $40-70k. Then there are the few big law jobs out there that range from $105-160. It all just really depends on what kind of work you are going to do and what kind of grades you get. If you have your heart set on big law, then realistically you need to be in the top 10% of the class or higher. I know that this doesn't sound too tough, but keep in mind that all 100% of the class comes in thinking that they can/want to be in the top 10%. In terms of CU vs. DU, I am not sure that there is a huge difference if you are staying in Denver. DU has a good reputation here, and more importantly graduates a lot more people, so you are more likely to run into a lot of DU grads in interviews. That being said, CU is ranked higher and given some preferential treatment depending on the firm. I don't know how to equate percentage class rankings, but would tell you that if you want to get a job at a big firm you need to be top 10% at DU and probably at least in the upper 1/4 at CU. Keep in mind that a lot of people from higher ranked schools want to come to Denver, so many of the big law jobs go to T-20 folks. Hope this gives you a little insight.


Is a full ride at DU > partial at CU? I figure I would be competitive at both, but I'm wondering if I would have better career prospects coming out of DU top 10% rather than top 20% at CU.

I wouldn't graduate at either with debt.. but wondering if class ranking at DU would make up for it being slightly lower.

Also, are there are deals for students on lift tickets/ ski gear? How often to law students make it to the slopes? Where would be a good place to find housing for law students (not interested in being around undergrads)?

DULaw13
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Re: DU 1L taking questions about DU, Denver, whatever

Postby DULaw13 » Tue Mar 01, 2011 7:27 pm

typ3 wrote:
DULaw13 wrote:
mrwarre85 wrote:What do you think the true expected salary is for someone who is top 25 %? I know its impossible to accurately answer questions like that given all the variables, but what is your best guess?? I'm also wondering how competitive DU is vs CU in Denver and the rest of Colorado. Like top 50% at CU equal chances with top 25% at DU?

Also, how many were in your class? 250 or so?

Many thanks,

Mike


Mike,

I am not sure that there is anyway to answer that question. Salary ranges are so broad. If you go work for the PD's office you start in $40's, if you go work for a small firm you could start anywhere between $40-70k. Then there are the few big law jobs out there that range from $105-160. It all just really depends on what kind of work you are going to do and what kind of grades you get. If you have your heart set on big law, then realistically you need to be in the top 10% of the class or higher. I know that this doesn't sound too tough, but keep in mind that all 100% of the class comes in thinking that they can/want to be in the top 10%. In terms of CU vs. DU, I am not sure that there is a huge difference if you are staying in Denver. DU has a good reputation here, and more importantly graduates a lot more people, so you are more likely to run into a lot of DU grads in interviews. That being said, CU is ranked higher and given some preferential treatment depending on the firm. I don't know how to equate percentage class rankings, but would tell you that if you want to get a job at a big firm you need to be top 10% at DU and probably at least in the upper 1/4 at CU. Keep in mind that a lot of people from higher ranked schools want to come to Denver, so many of the big law jobs go to T-20 folks. Hope this gives you a little insight.


Is a full ride at DU > partial at CU? I figure I would be competitive at both, but I'm wondering if I would have better career prospects coming out of DU top 10% rather than top 20% at CU.

I wouldn't graduate at either with debt.. but wondering if class ranking at DU would make up for it being slightly lower.

Also, are there are deals for students on lift tickets/ ski gear? How often to law students make it to the slopes? Where would be a good place to find housing for law students (not interested in being around undergrads)?


If you can do either one debt free, then it really comes down to which you like better. Again, I caution that it is difficult to count on being top 10% or 25% at any school. Simply because your LSAT or undergrad GPA is above the median does not guarantee that you will be head and shoulders above the rest. Some of the best and brightest didn't do well on the LSAT but kill it on law school exams. So if you can do DU or CU debt free, I would take the higher ranked school. That way if you do not wind up at the top of the class you have a little more cushion. That being said, CU and DU are very different schools. CU has a much smaller class size, is located in Boulder (this could be a plus or minus depending on your preference), and tends to be a more traditional law school experience (not offering as much experiential learning as DU). Also keep in mind that DU has an advantage as it is 15 minutes from downtown, so you get more exposure to the the top firms, the federal courts, and the city/state government. As far as skiing goes, yes you can make time to ski, and yes there are good deals (by a pass at the beginning of the season, or better yet in the summer when they are cheap, and hit up sniagrab if you need gear).

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fundamentallybroken
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Re: DU 1L taking questions about DU, Denver, whatever

Postby fundamentallybroken » Tue Mar 01, 2011 7:31 pm

Hi,

Glad to see you're still taking questions! I'm wondering if you can give us a quick preview of what your first semester daily schedule was like. Was it pretty much classes 5 days a week, 8ish to 5ish, did you have one weekday off, time off in between classes, etc. I know a lot of out of class time is spent studying, but I'm wondering how much 1Ls are actually in class that first semester.

Thanks!

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typ3
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Re: DU 1L taking questions about DU, Denver, whatever

Postby typ3 » Wed Mar 02, 2011 12:39 pm

Also, the law school handbook says you only take torts / contracts / property / civ pro for a semester rather than a year and you pick two of them per semester?

DULaw13
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Re: DU 1L taking questions about DU, Denver, whatever

Postby DULaw13 » Wed Mar 02, 2011 1:32 pm

Let me see if I can answer the last two questions in one reply (keep in mind I can only address this from the perspective of a day student, so if you are in the evening program it will be a bit different). During your first year you do not get to pick any of your classes. You will take the same classes as every other 1L. At DU you are divided into one of three sections (day program, and one section for night program). During the fall you will take Lawyering Process I (legal research and writing), Civ Pro, and 2 of the following: torts, crim, property, and contracts. Then in the spring you will take LP II, Con law, and the other two required courses that you did not take your first semester. All of the substantive classes (all 1st year courses except LP) meet 3 times a week for 70 mins. LP meets 2 times a week for 75 mins. Each section typically contains 80 or so people, and your substantive classes could be the entire 80 people, or could be split half. Your LP sections are 1/4 of your full section, so usually around 20 people. As far as how much time you spend on school, that really depends on you. My recommendation is to treat it like a job, get set hours for each day of the week and stick to that. But everyone does it a little differently. The earliest your classes will start is 9:00am and the latest they will end is 4:55pm.

mrwarre85
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Re: DU 1L taking questions about DU, Denver, whatever

Postby mrwarre85 » Wed Mar 02, 2011 1:46 pm

DULaw13 wrote:Let me see if I can answer the last two questions in one reply (keep in mind I can only address this from the perspective of a day student, so if you are in the evening program it will be a bit different). During your first year you do not get to pick any of your classes. You will take the same classes as every other 1L. At DU you are divided into one of three sections (day program, and one section for night program). During the fall you will take Lawyering Process I (legal research and writing), Civ Pro, and 2 of the following: torts, crim, property, and contracts. Then in the spring you will take LP II, Con law, and the other two required courses that you did not take your first semester. All of the substantive classes (all 1st year courses except LP) meet 3 times a week for 70 mins. LP meets 2 times a week for 75 mins. Each section typically contains 80 or so people, and your substantive classes could be the entire 80 people, or could be split half. Your LP sections are 1/4 of your full section, so usually around 20 people. As far as how much time you spend on school, that really depends on you. My recommendation is to treat it like a job, get set hours for each day of the week and stick to that. But everyone does it a little differently. The earliest your classes will start is 9:00am and the latest they will end is 4:55pm.


Do you have class on Friday?

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typ3
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Re: DU 1L taking questions about DU, Denver, whatever

Postby typ3 » Wed Mar 02, 2011 8:24 pm

mrwarre85 wrote:
DULaw13 wrote:Let me see if I can answer the last two questions in one reply (keep in mind I can only address this from the perspective of a day student, so if you are in the evening program it will be a bit different). During your first year you do not get to pick any of your classes. You will take the same classes as every other 1L. At DU you are divided into one of three sections (day program, and one section for night program). During the fall you will take Lawyering Process I (legal research and writing), Civ Pro, and 2 of the following: torts, crim, property, and contracts. Then in the spring you will take LP II, Con law, and the other two required courses that you did not take your first semester. All of the substantive classes (all 1st year courses except LP) meet 3 times a week for 70 mins. LP meets 2 times a week for 75 mins. Each section typically contains 80 or so people, and your substantive classes could be the entire 80 people, or could be split half. Your LP sections are 1/4 of your full section, so usually around 20 people. As far as how much time you spend on school, that really depends on you. My recommendation is to treat it like a job, get set hours for each day of the week and stick to that. But everyone does it a little differently. The earliest your classes will start is 9:00am and the latest they will end is 4:55pm.


Do you have class on Friday?


+1 This.

How hard is the curve at DU? I understand you can't come in thinking you will dominate the competition, but I would have to think I would do better there than say at Columbia or Chicago? (my other two best offers) Also, how are the on campus facilities for working out etc? Is there a free rec / gym? Also, how easy is parking to find on campus with a pass?

DULaw13
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Re: DU 1L taking questions about DU, Denver, whatever

Postby DULaw13 » Sat Mar 05, 2011 8:21 pm

I know that in years past there have been first year sections that did not have classes on Friday. That being said, I do believe that all first year sections this year have had at least one class on Friday in both semesters. As far as working out the facilities are free and good, but can get crowded at times. In addressing the curve, well....I don't know that I can answer that. I have not attended any other schools so I really have nothing to compare to. All I can tell you is that if you go to a T-14 school, pretty much everyone knows they are going to get jobs coming out. When you come to a school like DU, everyone is fighting tooth and nail to get into the top of the class to get one of the better jobs...so take that for what its worth.

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typ3
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Re: DU 1L taking questions about DU, Denver, whatever

Postby typ3 » Sun Mar 06, 2011 12:36 pm

DULaw13 wrote: All I can tell you is that if you go to a T-14 school, pretty much everyone knows they are going to get jobs coming out. When you come to a school like DU, everyone is fighting tooth and nail to get into the top of the class to get one of the better jobs...so take that for what its worth.


Everyone coming out of a T-14 school knows they are going to have 150k of debt coming out and wants to make big law at a more prestigious firm than one that is close to the bottom of the 250.

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IamAskier
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Re: DU 1L taking questions about DU, Denver, whatever

Postby IamAskier » Wed Mar 16, 2011 11:35 pm

Anyone still checking this thread? I just have a housing question. Where do the majority of law students live? Rather, what area of town is the best to live and attend DU?

quackylaw
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Re: DU 1L taking questions about DU, Denver, whatever

Postby quackylaw » Thu Mar 17, 2011 12:04 am

Do you happen to know if DU's chapter of the Animal Legal Defense Fund is active?

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typ3
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Re: DU 1L taking questions about DU, Denver, whatever

Postby typ3 » Thu Mar 17, 2011 12:29 am

IamAskier wrote:Anyone still checking this thread? I just have a housing question. Where do the majority of law students live? Rather, what area of town is the best to live and attend DU?


This. I've been looking for weeks and the housing situation seems pretty bleak.

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upfish
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Re: DU 1L taking questions about DU, Denver, whatever

Postby upfish » Thu Mar 17, 2011 9:39 am

typ3 wrote:
IamAskier wrote:Anyone still checking this thread? I just have a housing question. Where do the majority of law students live? Rather, what area of town is the best to live and attend DU?


This. I've been looking for weeks and the housing situation seems pretty bleak.


Really? It doesn't seem bad to me. But I like old buildings, so maybe that is why?

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typ3
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Re: DU 1L taking questions about DU, Denver, whatever

Postby typ3 » Fri Mar 18, 2011 8:46 pm

upfish wrote:
typ3 wrote:
IamAskier wrote:Anyone still checking this thread? I just have a housing question. Where do the majority of law students live? Rather, what area of town is the best to live and attend DU?


This. I've been looking for weeks and the housing situation seems pretty bleak.


Really? It doesn't seem bad to me. But I like old buildings, so maybe that is why?



I've found a few ideal places but they get snatched up before I can even call the landlords. It's feast or famine I think.

lfp
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Re: DU 1L taking questions about DU, Denver, whatever

Postby lfp » Wed Mar 23, 2011 7:49 am

Thanks for taking questions! If anyone is still out there, I'm wondering about the accessibility and quality of the professors. Since the classes are larger, do you feel you get any individual attention? And are you, over all, impressed/unimpressed with the faculty?

DULaw13
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Re: DU 1L taking questions about DU, Denver, whatever

Postby DULaw13 » Wed Mar 23, 2011 7:59 am

lfp wrote:Thanks for taking questions! If anyone is still out there, I'm wondering about the accessibility and quality of the professors. Since the classes are larger, do you feel you get any individual attention? And are you, over all, impressed/unimpressed with the faculty?


I would say that overall I am impressed. Yes you have large classes, especially your first year, but the professors are extremely accessible. Most people do not utilize office hours (except the last few weeks of the semester when everyone wants to cram), and if you make it a regular habit of attending office hours you can get all the attention you need. Like anywhere you are going to have a professor or two that drives you nuts, but overall the quality of instruction is excellent.

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Re: DU 1L taking questions about DU, Denver, whatever

Postby lfp » Wed Mar 23, 2011 9:27 am

While I have your attention... Do most 1Ls live in the DU/Wash Park area? I'm originally from Denver so, if I move back for DU, it's not like I'll be in a new city without outside friends. But will I miss out on the 1L experience in some way if I live in Cheesman Park/Capitol Hill area instead?

mrwarre85
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Re: DU 1L taking questions about DU, Denver, whatever

Postby mrwarre85 » Wed Mar 23, 2011 7:43 pm

I looked over the 2009 data and was pretty disappointed in what I saw. Any idea why only 52% of grads found full time law jobs nine months out? This is pretty low, and I'm hoping you will tell me something about self selection or the part-time kids not going for full-time legal employment because of it wasn't necessary or they already had a good job and just wanted to add the JD...?

How are people feeling about jobs?

Someone at DU told me that because of the above DU was a very competitive place. Still time for fun?

DULaw13
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Re: DU 1L taking questions about DU, Denver, whatever

Postby DULaw13 » Wed Mar 23, 2011 10:50 pm

lfp wrote:While I have your attention... Do most 1Ls live in the DU/Wash Park area? I'm originally from Denver so, if I move back for DU, it's not like I'll be in a new city without outside friends. But will I miss out on the 1L experience in some way if I live in Cheesman Park/Capitol Hill area instead?


Well, I think that a lot of folks live around campus...I'm not one of them. I say live wherever you want. You will be around the law school and law school people all the time regardless.

DULaw13
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Re: DU 1L taking questions about DU, Denver, whatever

Postby DULaw13 » Wed Mar 23, 2011 10:52 pm

mrwarre85 wrote:I looked over the 2009 data and was pretty disappointed in what I saw. Any idea why only 52% of grads found full time law jobs nine months out? This is pretty low, and I'm hoping you will tell me something about self selection or the part-time kids not going for full-time legal employment because of it wasn't necessary or they already had a good job and just wanted to add the JD...?

How are people feeling about jobs?

Someone at DU told me that because of the above DU was a very competitive place. Still time for fun?


Well...I think the numbers for 2009 look pretty crappy no matter where you went. Obviously, DU is not a T-14, and obviously Denver is not a huge legal market, so you have to know that coming in. It all depends on what you want to do. If you are only going to school to get a job in big law, then don't do DU. You can definitely get a big law job from DU but they are few and far between.

mrwarre85
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Re: DU 1L taking questions about DU, Denver, whatever

Postby mrwarre85 » Tue Mar 29, 2011 7:55 pm

DULaw13 wrote:
mrwarre85 wrote:I looked over the 2009 data and was pretty disappointed in what I saw. Any idea why only 52% of grads found full time law jobs nine months out? This is pretty low, and I'm hoping you will tell me something about self selection or the part-time kids not going for full-time legal employment because of it wasn't necessary or they already had a good job and just wanted to add the JD...?

How are people feeling about jobs?

Someone at DU told me that because of the above DU was a very competitive place. Still time for fun?


Well...I think the numbers for 2009 look pretty crappy no matter where you went. Obviously, DU is not a T-14, and obviously Denver is not a huge legal market, so you have to know that coming in. It all depends on what you want to do. If you are only going to school to get a job in big law, then don't do DU. You can definitely get a big law job from DU but they are few and far between.


Hmm..




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