Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

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thisiswater1488
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Re: Northwestern Students Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby thisiswater1488 » Thu Mar 03, 2011 12:19 pm

Any TLSers in the Law Scholars Program? I'd appreciate any sort of insight about it. How many students are in it? Is it well run? I've looked for more detailed info on NU's site, but there's not much to be had. Thanks.

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Re: Northwestern Students Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby 09042014 » Thu Mar 03, 2011 12:42 pm

thisiswater1488 wrote:Any TLSers in the Law Scholars Program? I'd appreciate any sort of insight about it. How many students are in it? Is it well run? I've looked for more detailed info on NU's site, but there's not much to be had. Thanks.


I've never even heard it. I'm not sure a legal teaching career is a valid career goal from a lower t14.

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bjsesq
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Re: Northwestern Students Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby bjsesq » Thu Mar 03, 2011 3:22 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
thisiswater1488 wrote:Any TLSers in the Law Scholars Program? I'd appreciate any sort of insight about it. How many students are in it? Is it well run? I've looked for more detailed info on NU's site, but there's not much to be had. Thanks.


I've never even heard it. I'm not sure a legal teaching career is a valid career goal from a lower t14.

Valid, sure. Reasonably attainable? Not so sure.

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Lieut Kaffee
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Re: Northwestern Students Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Lieut Kaffee » Thu Mar 03, 2011 4:48 pm

thisiswater1488 wrote:Any TLSers in the Law Scholars Program? I'd appreciate any sort of insight about it. How many students are in it? Is it well run? I've looked for more detailed info on NU's site, but there's not much to be had. Thanks.


Pretty sure the law scholars program is where a senior pairs with a faculty advisor and does a research project for credit. One of the advisors I've talked to said it's something I should do in pursuing clerkships.

Academia, like top-notch clerkships, is something I think you basically need a 3.9 + LR + law scholars + more shit to do.

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Re: Northwestern Students Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Bumi » Thu Mar 03, 2011 5:16 pm

Lieut Kaffee wrote:Pretty sure the law scholars program is where a senior pairs with a faculty advisor and does a research project for credit. One of the advisors I've talked to said it's something I should do in pursuing clerkships.

Academia, like top-notch clerkships, is something I think you basically need a 3.9 + LR + law scholars + more shit to do.

I'm a 0L interested in law scholars too, but I'm interested in it about the same that I'm interested in what it would be like to have kids with the girl I'm dating. Lots of stuff has to come together for it to be a legit option so it's not even worth really thinking much about.

Let's see if I can get to first base with 1L grades before I start thinking about settling down with legal academia. Credited?

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Lieut Kaffee
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Re: Northwestern Students Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Lieut Kaffee » Thu Mar 03, 2011 5:22 pm

Bumi wrote:
Lieut Kaffee wrote:Pretty sure the law scholars program is where a senior pairs with a faculty advisor and does a research project for credit. One of the advisors I've talked to said it's something I should do in pursuing clerkships.

Academia, like top-notch clerkships, is something I think you basically need a 3.9 + LR + law scholars + more shit to do.

I'm a 0L interested in law scholars too, but I'm interested in it about the same that I'm interested in what it would be like to have kids with the girl I'm dating. Lots of stuff has to come together for it to be a legit option so it's not even worth really thinking much about.

Let's see if I can get to first base with 1L grades before I start thinking about settling down with legal academia. Credited?


Yeah. I wouldn't use it as a factor in deciding between schools.

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Re: Northwestern Students Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Bumi » Thu Mar 03, 2011 5:38 pm

I did just think of something I wanted to ask. When I was visiting the school last week, I got to walk around the library a bit (silently). I love the enormous amount of natural light in there. But I was worried about two potential downsides compared to other libraries I've visited. (1) It doesn't seem to be as big as other schools' law libraries. Around exam and memo time, doesn't it get crowded in there? and (2), the open layout means that there's little noise isolation. I was told that the top floor of the law library is silent like a crypt, but when I was up there I could hear everything going on two floors below, including people talking loudly. Maybe that was bad luck on my part, but I'd love to hear from people who spend a lot of time in there.

One other plus I just thought of: none of the other law schools I've visited have been as stingy about keeping nonstudents out of the library, and there are obviously no undergrads around. This might mitigate both of my concerns.

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Re: Northwestern Students Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby 09042014 » Thu Mar 03, 2011 5:49 pm

Bumi wrote:I did just think of something I wanted to ask. When I was visiting the school last week, I got to walk around the library a bit (silently). I love the enormous amount of natural light in there. But I was worried about two potential downsides compared to other libraries I've visited. (1) It doesn't seem to be as big as other schools' law libraries. Around exam and memo time, doesn't it get crowded in there? and (2), the open layout means that there's little noise isolation. I was told that the top floor of the law library is silent like a crypt, but when I was up there I could hear everything going on two floors below, including people talking loudly. Maybe that was bad luck on my part, but I'd love to hear from people who spend a lot of time in there.

One other plus I just thought of: none of the other law schools I've visited have been as stingy about keeping nonstudents out of the library, and there are obviously no undergrads around. This might mitigate both of my concerns.


Are other libraries really that much bigger? Being overcrowded isn't a problem. I was kinda shocked how empty the library was during finals. Move away from the stairs, it should be much quieter. Then again I'm one of the loudmouths.

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Lieut Kaffee
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Re: Northwestern Students Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Lieut Kaffee » Thu Mar 03, 2011 6:02 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
Bumi wrote:I did just think of something I wanted to ask. When I was visiting the school last week, I got to walk around the library a bit (silently). I love the enormous amount of natural light in there. But I was worried about two potential downsides compared to other libraries I've visited. (1) It doesn't seem to be as big as other schools' law libraries. Around exam and memo time, doesn't it get crowded in there? and (2), the open layout means that there's little noise isolation. I was told that the top floor of the law library is silent like a crypt, but when I was up there I could hear everything going on two floors below, including people talking loudly. Maybe that was bad luck on my part, but I'd love to hear from people who spend a lot of time in there.

One other plus I just thought of: none of the other law schools I've visited have been as stingy about keeping nonstudents out of the library, and there are obviously no undergrads around. This might mitigate both of my concerns.


Are other libraries really that much bigger? Being overcrowded isn't a problem. I was kinda shocked how empty the library was during finals. Move away from the stairs, it should be much quieter. Then again I'm one of the loudmouths.


Yeah, I'm not even sure I'd say the library was the cram spot of choice around finals or memo time. Atrium (not very quiet except after midnight), basement (usually pretty quiet), classrooms (there's almost always an empty or near-empty one to find that will be silent), and other spots around campus, i.e. Women's hospital cafeteria all seemed more popular. Not to mention people's homes, if that's your thing.

In other words, if it's the library you want (though closed-door study rooms are at a premium), there will be spots all over and it will be deathly quiet.

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Re: Northwestern Students Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby bjsesq » Thu Mar 03, 2011 6:06 pm

Bumi wrote:I did just think of something I wanted to ask. When I was visiting the school last week, I got to walk around the library a bit (silently). I love the enormous amount of natural light in there. But I was worried about two potential downsides compared to other libraries I've visited. (1) It doesn't seem to be as big as other schools' law libraries. Around exam and memo time, doesn't it get crowded in there? and (2), the open layout means that there's little noise isolation. I was told that the top floor of the law library is silent like a crypt, but when I was up there I could hear everything going on two floors below, including people talking loudly. Maybe that was bad luck on my part, but I'd love to hear from people who spend a lot of time in there.

One other plus I just thought of: none of the other law schools I've visited have been as stingy about keeping nonstudents out of the library, and there are obviously no undergrads around. This might mitigate both of my concerns.

Study rooms, brah. They are relatively easy to get, despite finals.

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Re: Northwestern Students Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Bumi » Thu Mar 03, 2011 6:52 pm

Regarding size, I just did some googling that I should have done earlier. NU's law library is 90k square feet? Either NU has some kind of Hogwarts magic or I didn't explore the whole thing.

Lieut Kaffee wrote:Yeah, I'm not even sure I'd say the library was the cram spot of choice around finals or memo time. Atrium (not very quiet except after midnight), basement (usually pretty quiet), classrooms (there's almost always an empty or near-empty one to find that will be silent), and other spots around campus, i.e. Women's hospital cafeteria all seemed more popular. Not to mention people's homes, if that's your thing.


Great point about classrooms and the hospital - I used to study there all the time as an undergrad, but that was a long time ago at a different place, so I guess I forgot.

One thing that I really liked about Northwestern is that I can walk 1 minute and radically change the ambient noise level, temperature, amount of light, and architectural style of my surroundings. Without going outdoors.

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EarlCat
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Re: Northwestern Students Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby EarlCat » Thu Mar 03, 2011 9:57 pm

The library ebbs and flows in its noise level, but the further you get from the stairs the quieter it is. FWIW, I'm in the library now and the loudest noise is my laptop keyboard. If you want a dead silent study space, go to the mezzanine. (Theres' much better light in there too, although you can check out desk lamps from the library's front desk.)

Bumi wrote:One other plus I just thought of: none of the other law schools I've visited have been as stingy about keeping nonstudents out of the library, and there are obviously no undergrads around. This might mitigate both of my concerns.

They let in med students except at finals time.

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Baby Herman
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Re: Northwestern Students Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Baby Herman » Thu Mar 03, 2011 11:04 pm

Lieut Kaffee wrote:Academia, like top-notch clerkships, is something I think you basically need a 3.9 + LR + law scholars + more shit to do.

Definitely not true. Academia requires publishing, faculty connections, and not much more than that. Clerkships, LR, and other things help, but they aren't necessary or sufficient. To the extent the law scholars program helps you publish and develop strong faculty ties, it could potentially help a lot. Adding a PhD into the mix would up a candidate's odds considerably, too.

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Re: Northwestern Students Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Lieut Kaffee » Fri Mar 04, 2011 1:43 am

Baby Herman wrote:
Lieut Kaffee wrote:Academia, like top-notch clerkships, is something I think you basically need a 3.9 + LR + law scholars + more shit to do.

Definitely not true. Academia requires publishing, faculty connections, and not much more than that. Clerkships, LR, and other things help, but they aren't necessary or sufficient. To the extent the law scholars program helps you publish and develop strong faculty ties, it could potentially help a lot. Adding a PhD into the mix would up a candidate's odds considerably, too.

I don't know much about academia since I'm not pursuing it. I just usually hear it tossed around in the same conversation as COA clerkships as something you need stacked credentials for to have a shot from a lower t14.

You could be right about soft factors being more important for teaching than for clerking.

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rayiner
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Re: Northwestern Students Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby rayiner » Fri Mar 04, 2011 1:48 am

NU places maybe 1 person into academia every other year. See: http://leiterrankings.com/new/2011_LawTeachers.shtml

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Lieut Kaffee
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Re: Northwestern Students Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Lieut Kaffee » Fri Mar 04, 2011 2:19 am

rayiner wrote:NU places maybe 1 person into academia every other year. See: http://leiterrankings.com/new/2011_LawTeachers.shtml

Undoubtedly deflated by self-selection since few top NU students have interest in academia. It's always speculation with this kind of thing, but I'd stand by my prediction that if you were determined to be a prof some day, and you graduated top 5-10%, with LR and other soft factors, you'd be in a solid position and have slightly better than "once every two years" type chances.

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Re: Northwestern Students Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Baby Herman » Fri Mar 04, 2011 2:23 am

rayiner wrote:NU places maybe 1 person into academia every other year. See: http://leiterrankings.com/new/2011_LawTeachers.shtml

The placement rate is actually higher than that, inasmuch as Leiter's study looks only to placement on 43 specific faculties. Not that the true rate is all that high, but still, it is higher than 1 every other year. Of the three that I am aware of, all three finished first in the class ('95, '01, and '07).

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Lieut Kaffee
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Re: Northwestern Students Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Lieut Kaffee » Fri Mar 04, 2011 2:27 am

Just so I'm clear, we are talking about landing a tenure-track position straight out of law school? Not surprising that's so rare. There are a lot of young faculty members here who graduated from NU in the past several years, went to work, then came back in entry-level faculty positions. I assume these kinds of people can work their way up somehow. I also assume people who go into biglaw can someday attempt to become a lecturer or adjunct professor.

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rayiner
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Re: Northwestern Students Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby rayiner » Fri Mar 04, 2011 2:44 am

Lieut Kaffee wrote:
rayiner wrote:NU places maybe 1 person into academia every other year. See: http://leiterrankings.com/new/2011_LawTeachers.shtml

Undoubtedly deflated by self-selection since few top NU students have interest in academia. It's always speculation with this kind of thing, but I'd stand by my prediction that if you were determined to be a prof some day, and you graduated top 5-10%, with LR and other soft factors, you'd be in a solid position and have slightly better than "once every two years" type chances.


Leiter's study looked at the faculty of the top 43 law schools for people who graduated since 1995 who attended various law schools. So it's not just people who went to academia straight out of law school.

As for self-selection... the LR contingent here is as academic as anywhere else. A lot of them would love to go into academia.
Last edited by rayiner on Fri Mar 04, 2011 2:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Lieut Kaffee
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Re: Northwestern Students Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Lieut Kaffee » Fri Mar 04, 2011 2:46 am

rayiner wrote:
Lieut Kaffee wrote:
rayiner wrote:NU places maybe 1 person into academia every other year. See: http://leiterrankings.com/new/2011_LawTeachers.shtml

Undoubtedly deflated by self-selection since few top NU students have interest in academia. It's always speculation with this kind of thing, but I'd stand by my prediction that if you were determined to be a prof some day, and you graduated top 5-10%, with LR and other soft factors, you'd be in a solid position and have slightly better than "once every two years" type chances.


Deflated by Northwestern's fairly terrible academic reputation.


You don't think there are a handful of people each year who could feasibly have pursued academia if they didn't prefer to go clerkship/biglaw instead?

I dunno; I'm just theorizing.

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ArchRoark
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Re: Northwestern Students Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby ArchRoark » Fri Mar 04, 2011 10:23 am

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... lenews_wsj

And I thought Austin keeps it weird.

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Re: Northwestern Students Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby dddhhh » Fri Mar 04, 2011 10:26 am

ArchRoark wrote:http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703752404576178791072808496.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

And I thought Austin keeps it weird.


Heard that on the radio this morning...

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EarlCat
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Re: Northwestern Students Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby EarlCat » Mon Mar 07, 2011 5:15 pm

U.S. News 5-way tie for 8th. Wowwww.

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rinkrat19
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Re: Northwestern Students Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby rinkrat19 » Mon Mar 07, 2011 5:23 pm

EarlCat wrote:U.S. News 5-way tie for 8th. Wowwww.


Saw that, but it was just the "law firm recruiter" rankings based on a survey sent to hiring partners, not the "real" list we're all waiting for. (Not that having your school highly-ranked by hiring partners is a bad thing.)

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Holly Golightly
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Re: Northwestern Students Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Holly Golightly » Mon Mar 07, 2011 9:40 pm

How did I miss 2 whole pages of this thread? :(




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