Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
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VulcanVulcanVulcan
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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby VulcanVulcanVulcan » Mon Jun 23, 2014 5:35 pm

It also creates an arms race where students have to avoid classes with a risk of an A- in order to keep up with their grade-inflating brethren.

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Georgia Avenue
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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Georgia Avenue » Mon Jun 23, 2014 5:39 pm

VulcanVulcanVulcan wrote:It also creates an arms race where students have to avoid classes with a risk of an A- in order to keep up with their grade-inflating brethren.


right, but there's a law of diminishing returns once you get into the grade inflation stratosphere, magna/coif aside. a 4.11 probably isn't going to open that many doors that a 4.01 wouldn't, all other things being equal.

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Flips88
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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Flips88 » Mon Jun 23, 2014 5:43 pm

Georgia Avenue wrote:
VulcanVulcanVulcan wrote:It also creates an arms race where students have to avoid classes with a risk of an A- in order to keep up with their grade-inflating brethren.


right, but there's a law of diminishing returns once you get into the grade inflation stratosphere, magna/coif aside. a 4.11 probably isn't going to open that many doors that a 4.01 wouldn't, all other things being equal.

I dunno. I bet it might make a difference with some feeder judges potentially. I assume a 4.11 puts you near top 5 students or so in the class, which some judge with a stick up his ass might care about instead of you being only top 15 or top 20, whatever 4.01 would be.

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cookiejar1
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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby cookiejar1 » Mon Jun 23, 2014 5:51 pm

Desert Fox wrote:New TLS Northwestern Student and Alumni ruling:

We are not going to talk about our grade distribution after 1L. Don't want to let the cat out of the bag.


Can we make this a thing please? I'm so scared. Never talking about NU grade distribution again.

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Flips88
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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Flips88 » Mon Jun 23, 2014 5:58 pm

Wonder what they'll do when inevitably someone makes magna but not coif in the next few years.

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Georgia Avenue
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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Georgia Avenue » Mon Jun 23, 2014 6:19 pm

Flips88 wrote:
Georgia Avenue wrote:
VulcanVulcanVulcan wrote:It also creates an arms race where students have to avoid classes with a risk of an A- in order to keep up with their grade-inflating brethren.


right, but there's a law of diminishing returns once you get into the grade inflation stratosphere, magna/coif aside. a 4.11 probably isn't going to open that many doors that a 4.01 wouldn't, all other things being equal.

I dunno. I bet it might make a difference with some feeder judges potentially. I assume a 4.11 puts you near top 5 students or so in the class, which some judge with a stick up his ass might care about instead of you being only top 15 or top 20, whatever 4.01 would be.


i think you're right. but there will be what, 3 to 5 kids TOTAL in a class of 250+ who would be competitive for those judges? if you're above 4.0, you're already probably competitive for almost all CoA spots, you're above the cutoff for almost any, if not all, firms who come to OCI, you're already making magna/coif, probably on LR, etc etc. SCOTUS/DC circuit type judges are literally the only ones who would care about that extra .10, and 99% of people (hell, maybe even those with a 4.1) aren't sniffing that to begin with.

i just think the idea that grade inflation makes getting one A- a /killself is way overblown.

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VulcanVulcanVulcan
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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby VulcanVulcanVulcan » Mon Jun 23, 2014 7:59 pm

Georgia Avenue wrote:
Flips88 wrote:
Georgia Avenue wrote:
VulcanVulcanVulcan wrote:It also creates an arms race where students have to avoid classes with a risk of an A- in order to keep up with their grade-inflating brethren.


right, but there's a law of diminishing returns once you get into the grade inflation stratosphere, magna/coif aside. a 4.11 probably isn't going to open that many doors that a 4.01 wouldn't, all other things being equal.

I dunno. I bet it might make a difference with some feeder judges potentially. I assume a 4.11 puts you near top 5 students or so in the class, which some judge with a stick up his ass might care about instead of you being only top 15 or top 20, whatever 4.01 would be.


i think you're right. but there will be what, 3 to 5 kids TOTAL in a class of 250+ who would be competitive for those judges? if you're above 4.0, you're already probably competitive for almost all CoA spots, you're above the cutoff for almost any, if not all, firms who come to OCI, you're already making magna/coif, probably on LR, etc etc. SCOTUS/DC circuit type judges are literally the only ones who would care about that extra .10, and 99% of people (hell, maybe even those with a 4.1) aren't sniffing that to begin with.

i just think the idea that grade inflation makes getting one A- a /killself is way overblown.


It's not overblown if you are in fact shooting for, e.g., a COA clerkship. Comparing scenarios where a 3.8 and a 4.0 GPA would suffice, an A- hurts the latter GPA a lot more. The margin of error is much smaller.

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Aine
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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Aine » Mon Jun 23, 2014 8:13 pm

Flips88 wrote:Wonder what they'll do when inevitably someone makes magna but not coif in the next few years.


Already happened.

Also, do transfers get magna? Cause they shouldn't.

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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby 09042014 » Mon Jun 23, 2014 8:16 pm

Aine wrote:
Flips88 wrote:Wonder what they'll do when inevitably someone makes magna but not coif in the next few years.


Already happened.

Also, do transfers get magna? Cause they shouldn't.


They should, but normal students should be able to get it based on their 2-3L grades alone.

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Aine
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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Aine » Mon Jun 23, 2014 8:50 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
Aine wrote:
Flips88 wrote:Wonder what they'll do when inevitably someone makes magna but not coif in the next few years.


Already happened.

Also, do transfers get magna? Cause they shouldn't.


They should, but normal students should be able to get it based on their 2-3L grades alone.


Then we'd have like 50 students with magna. What is HARD is taking curved classes. Not cushy little seminars.

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VulcanVulcanVulcan
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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby VulcanVulcanVulcan » Mon Jun 23, 2014 8:53 pm

Aine wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
Aine wrote:
Flips88 wrote:Wonder what they'll do when inevitably someone makes magna but not coif in the next few years.


Already happened.

Also, do transfers get magna? Cause they shouldn't.


They should, but normal students should be able to get it based on their 2-3L grades alone.


Then we'd have like 50 students with magna. What is HARD is taking curved classes. Not cushy little seminars.


I agree, but this just shows the grade inflation is reaching a point where it's gone too far.

splitmuch
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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby splitmuch » Mon Jun 23, 2014 8:58 pm

Aine wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
Aine wrote:
Flips88 wrote:Wonder what they'll do when inevitably someone makes magna but not coif in the next few years.


Already happened.

Also, do transfers get magna? Cause they shouldn't.


They should, but normal students should be able to get it based on their 2-3L grades alone.


Then we'd have like 50 students with magna. What is HARD is taking curved classes. Not cushy little seminars.


Pretty sure he was kidding.

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rayiner
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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby rayiner » Mon Jun 23, 2014 8:59 pm

Georgia Avenue wrote:
VulcanVulcanVulcan wrote:It also creates an arms race where students have to avoid classes with a risk of an A- in order to keep up with their grade-inflating brethren.


right, but there's a law of diminishing returns once you get into the grade inflation stratosphere, magna/coif aside. a 4.11 probably isn't going to open that many doors that a 4.01 wouldn't, all other things being equal.


There is a bigger difference between 4.1 and 4.0 then 4.0 and 3.9 or even 3.8. Top 5 people or so is where the feeders and SCOTUS possibilities open up.

I'm not on the "grade inflation = bad" bandwagon. For the vast majority of the class it helps. I think it hurts a small number of people shooting for jobs that really want to make sure they don't hire someone outside the top 5 at a lower T14, but BFD.

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Micdiddy
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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Micdiddy » Mon Jun 23, 2014 9:54 pm

I don't see the big deal either. Unless some judges overcompensate by not taking a student 5th in a class with grade inflation that they would have taken if 5th in the class w/o grade inflation, then it can't really hurt. Maybe judges do do this just to play it safe, as Rayiner suggests, but really that's a marginal consideration all things considered.

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Holly Golightly
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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Holly Golightly » Mon Jun 23, 2014 10:09 pm

Okay now let's all STFU and edit posts and talk about NU's 3.3 median. kthnx

09042014
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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby 09042014 » Mon Jun 23, 2014 11:06 pm

I bet judges can't even comprehend how inflated it is.

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Holly Golightly
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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Holly Golightly » Mon Jun 23, 2014 11:08 pm

Desert Fox wrote:I bet judges can't even comprehend how inflated it is.

Their clerks who read TLS can figure it out.

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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby zugzwanger » Mon Jun 23, 2014 11:15 pm

Oddball question/scenario:

If someone from a firm (that is going to be at our OCI) requests my resume outside/before OCI, do I have to keep by GPA off that as well? Not sure anyone has ever run into this.

EDIT: not specifically the person asking for it is coming to OCI but the firm is coming

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Kikero
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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Kikero » Mon Jun 23, 2014 11:22 pm

Treat them as if they weren't going to be at OCI. If you can set something up and save the bid slot, all the better.

zugzwanger
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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby zugzwanger » Mon Jun 23, 2014 11:39 pm

Kikero wrote:Treat them as if they weren't going to be at OCI. If you can set something up and save the bid slot, all the better.


Cool thank you -- much appreciated!

Bumi
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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Bumi » Tue Jun 24, 2014 12:50 pm

VulcanVulcanVulcan wrote:It also creates an arms race where students have to avoid classes with a risk of an A- in order to keep up with their grade-inflating brethren.


Yet we really don't know which ones those are. Every six months in this thread you see people warning people not to assume that tiny uncurved classes are automatic A grades. Some of them aren't at all like that. Some of them seem to give everyone an A or A+. Which ones? Who knows, I don't pry into people's grades, and there's no real way to know otherwise.

I agree though that it doesn't matter, not really. Our grades are useful after 1L, and that's when it matters the most.

The #1 most annoying thing though is when a 3L starts talking loudly about how easy it is to get A+s all the time. Bro, maybe your schedule was cake, but not everyone's was like that. Some people take easy Sec Reg and some people take hard Sec Reg. Simmer down.

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bjsesq
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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby bjsesq » Tue Jun 24, 2014 12:52 pm

This is your weekly reminder that Ron Allen is a narcissistic toolbox. Thank you for your attention, and remember: deliver a little snark to his arrogant ass when you can to keep him at least somewhat honest.

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Holly Golightly
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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Holly Golightly » Tue Jun 24, 2014 1:10 pm

bjsesq wrote:This is your weekly reminder that Ron Allen is a narcissistic toolbox. Thank you for your attention, and remember: deliver a little snark to his arrogant ass when you can to keep him at least somewhat honest.

Actual exchange between him and another student in my section during lunch 1L:

Student: Professor Allen, I know evidence is really your specialty. What is it that makes you want to teach civ pro, too?

Allen: All of the other civil procedures are terrible. I felt the 1Ls needed me.

(told us on the first day of class that he did not intend to teach us anything about civil procedure)

09042014
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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby 09042014 » Tue Jun 24, 2014 1:12 pm

bjsesq wrote:This is your weekly reminder that Ron Allen is a narcissistic toolbox. Thank you for your attention, and remember: deliver a little snark to his arrogant ass when you can to keep him at least somewhat honest.


Tell me where on this doll did Ron Allen touch you.

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rayiner
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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby rayiner » Tue Jun 24, 2014 1:15 pm

Bumi wrote:
VulcanVulcanVulcan wrote:It also creates an arms race where students have to avoid classes with a risk of an A- in order to keep up with their grade-inflating brethren.


Yet we really don't know which ones those are. Every six months in this thread you see people warning people not to assume that tiny uncurved classes are automatic A grades.


I think Vulcan has it backwards. NU's curve rewards people who turn in one of the best exams in each of several classes, even if they get a random lower grade here and there. UVA's curve rewards people who consistently turn in an excellent exam, and never get a random lower grade.




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