Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
09042014
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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby 09042014 » Thu Jun 12, 2014 11:03 pm

Skills and Workshop Training:
• New England Complex Systems Institute (NECSI) Complex Systems Modeling and Networks
course (2012)
• Interuniversity Consortium for Political and Social Research (ICPSR) Large Scale Network Analysis
course (2011)


lol

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d cooper
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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby d cooper » Fri Jun 13, 2014 6:46 pm

Thoughts on commuting via the Red Line from the North Side neighborhoods? I understand most people advise living near Lake Shore Drive for the express buses, but there are a lot of attractive options away from the lake.

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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby splitmuch » Fri Jun 13, 2014 6:49 pm

d cooper wrote:Thoughts on commuting via the Red Line from the North Side neighborhoods? I understand most people advise living near Lake Shore Drive for the express buses, but there are a lot of attractive options away from the lake.


I do this from about 5 min away from the north and clybourn station. Super easy, 20 to 30 min commute depending on if I time the train right.. Add 2 to 3 min per stop north.

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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby feralinfant » Fri Jun 13, 2014 8:33 pm

d cooper wrote:Thoughts on commuting via the Red Line from the North Side neighborhoods? I understand most people advise living near Lake Shore Drive for the express buses, but there are a lot of attractive options away from the lake.


Red line is even arguably better than buses in the winter where a little snow doubles or triples commute times because of traffic. Very doable.

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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Georgia Avenue » Fri Jun 13, 2014 8:41 pm

feralinfant wrote:
d cooper wrote:Thoughts on commuting via the Red Line from the North Side neighborhoods? I understand most people advise living near Lake Shore Drive for the express buses, but there are a lot of attractive options away from the lake.


Red line is even arguably better than buses in the winter where a little snow doubles or triples commute times because of traffic. Very doable.


good point. also, here's a free red line pro tip for the winter: if an otherwise busy train has one completely empty car, don't get on that car whatever you do.

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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Holly Golightly » Fri Jun 13, 2014 8:49 pm

Good tip for summer, too

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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby 09042014 » Fri Jun 13, 2014 10:51 pm

You guys are just racist against masturbating homeless people. That's basically boo after an additional tour in the sandbox

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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby bjsesq » Fri Jun 13, 2014 10:57 pm

Desert Fox wrote:You guys are just racist against masturbating homeless people. That's basically boo after an additional tour in the sandbox


<3<3<3<3

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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby feralinfant » Sat Jun 14, 2014 7:40 am

Georgia Avenue wrote:
feralinfant wrote:
d cooper wrote:Thoughts on commuting via the Red Line from the North Side neighborhoods? I understand most people advise living near Lake Shore Drive for the express buses, but there are a lot of attractive options away from the lake.


Red line is even arguably better than buses in the winter where a little snow doubles or triples commute times because of traffic. Very doable.


good point. also, here's a free red line pro tip for the winter: if an otherwise busy train has one completely empty car, don't get on that car whatever you do.


this. so much this.

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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Kikero » Sat Jun 14, 2014 3:17 pm

feralinfant wrote:
d cooper wrote:Thoughts on commuting via the Red Line from the North Side neighborhoods? I understand most people advise living near Lake Shore Drive for the express buses, but there are a lot of attractive options away from the lake.


Red line is even arguably better than buses in the winter where a little snow doubles or triples commute times because of traffic. Very doable.


Yeah, I live off the red line in Lincoln Park and am very happy with the set up. And I know people who live farther north on the red line than me and like it as well.

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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby jn7 » Mon Jun 16, 2014 2:03 pm

Does taking BA make any relevant impact during OCI for interest in transactional work? Contemplating enrolling this summer before OCI but I'm not sure if it would be worthwhile. I have a business background but I'm concerned about pushback during interviews about having not taken that class or one similar.

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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Pokemon » Mon Jun 16, 2014 2:16 pm

jn7 wrote:Does taking BA make any relevant impact during OCI for interest in transactional work? Contemplating enrolling this summer before OCI but I'm not sure if it would be worthwhile. I have a business background but I'm concerned about pushback during interviews about having not taken that class or one similar.



If you take it, the final will be during OCI.
Also, I would not expect any pushback from not taking it. You are just a 1L. Plenty of time to take BA.
Also, do you not have a 1L summer job? How do you plan on taking it?

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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby jn7 » Mon Jun 16, 2014 2:24 pm

Pokemon wrote:
jn7 wrote:Does taking BA make any relevant impact during OCI for interest in transactional work? Contemplating enrolling this summer before OCI but I'm not sure if it would be worthwhile. I have a business background but I'm concerned about pushback during interviews about having not taken that class or one similar.



If you take it, the final will be during OCI.
Also, I would not expect any pushback from not taking it. You are just a 1L. Plenty of time to take BA.
Also, do you not have a 1L summer job? How do you plan on taking it?


Yeah I do have a summer job but that's partly why I was concerned about piling on unnecessary work with no real impact on outcome. They have it 3x week in the evenings so I probably could force it.

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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Bumi » Mon Jun 16, 2014 2:28 pm

jn7 wrote:I'm concerned about pushback during interviews about having not taken that class or one similar.


First, if that happens, which it almost certainly won't, you can positively spin your choice of courses by saying you wanted to balance out this:

jn7 wrote:I have a business background


Second, use the time to prepare for OCI, get your bid list together, research firms, network, and contact firms outside of OCI. Also sleep, exercise, get your clothes tailored, and all of that. I guarantee that's a better use of your time.

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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Solistus » Mon Jun 16, 2014 3:19 pm

Well, shit. Maybe I should have checked in here before accepting a waitlist slot for that BA class. I'm working at the clinic and set my own hours, so that won't be too much of an issue, but I didn't think about the exam timing. August will be... Interesting. :oops:

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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby homestyle28 » Mon Jun 16, 2014 4:23 pm

Solistus wrote:Well, shit. Maybe I should have checked in here before accepting a waitlist slot for that BA class. I'm working at the clinic and set my own hours, so that won't be too much of an issue, but I didn't think about the exam timing. August will be... Interesting. :oops:


it's not really that big of a deal, it's a pain in the ass to take the final during OCI, but then again you know it's coming so can prepare accordingly. Not every day of OCI is equally packed, you'll be able to find the time. Also, the summer BA class is usually full of ILMs, which often makes for a softer curve.

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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby ppkk19 » Mon Jun 16, 2014 5:04 pm

I have always been planning on B-school (please don't boo me off the forum), but since finding out that Northwestern offers a 3 year JD/MBA program I have started to entertain that idea more. After perusing the website, I still have a few quick questions about it:

1. They make it seem like the criteria for a JD/MBA candidate are different than either individually, but how? What does it take to get into the program? I would consider myself a pretty good candidate for Kellogg, but weaker for the law school (b/c GPA). 740 GMAT, 3.4 GPA, finance degree with a concentration in financial accounting, 4 years work experience at a successful money manager.

2. Going off the first question, should I take the LSAT? The major "con" I could foresee, is if I don't take it, they will assume I didn't think I would do well. *edit: I have no idea how I'd do, based on my standardized test history, I would think I would get a respectable score. It isn't required, so mainly wondering if anyone doesn't take it.

3. This is a long one sorry- Not to lack confidence in myself, but I am going to assume I will not crush the law school portion in comparison to students there solely for law. I would imagine someone with a more writing intensive background will inherently be a little better. With that being said I have no intention of practicing law, so personally I don't mind if I will not be in the top of the class because I am just there for the experience and knowledge, not to compete for the best law jobs. So assuming all this is true, will not being towards the front of the pack in law classes have any negative impact on me at NU/immediately after?

Thanks in advance for any help/advice/answers!
Last edited by ppkk19 on Wed Jun 18, 2014 10:23 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby bjsesq » Mon Jun 16, 2014 5:06 pm

Not going to give you any advice because I don't know dick about the JD/MBA, but why would anyone ever give you shit for thinking about Kellogg? It's an amazing B-School, dude.

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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby ppkk19 » Mon Jun 16, 2014 5:12 pm

haha no I know, it's incredible. I'm total new to the forum and didn't know if talk of other schools outside the law world was a faux pas. Glad it's not!

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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby zugzwanger » Mon Jun 16, 2014 5:16 pm

ppkk19 wrote:I have always been planning on B-school (please don't boo me off the forum), but since finding out that Northwestern offers a 3 year JD/MBA program I have started to entertain that idea more. After perusing the website, I still have a few quick questions about it:

1. They make it seem like the criteria for a JD/MBA candidate are different than either individually, but how? What does it take to get into the program? I would consider myself a pretty good candidate for Kellogg, but weak for the law school. 740 GMAT, 3.4 GPA, finance degree with a concentration in financial accounting, 4 years work experience at a successful money manager.

2. Going off the first question, should I take the LSAT? The major "con" I could foresee, is if I don't take it, they will assume I didn't think I would do well

3. This is a long one sorry- Not to lack confidence in myself, but I am going to assume I will not crush the law school portion in comparison to students there solely for law. I would imagine someone with a more writing intensive background will ultimately be able to succeed in the school quicker, and thus probably do better overall. With that being said I have no intention of practicing law, so personally I don't mind if I will not be in the top of the class because I am just there for the experience and knowledge, not to compete for the best law jobs. So assuming all this is true, will being towards the back of the pack in law classes have any negative impact on me at NU/immediately after?

Thanks in advance for any help/advice/answers!


IMO you are really shooting yourself in the foot by just assuming you won't do well on the LSAT and assuming you will be in the bottom of the class. From the little experience I have had first year, it generally seems that once you are in, everybody is on at least pretty equal footing regardless of whether someone had more intensive writing experience. If you ever read what is puked out on paper after a 3 hour final exam first year, you'll quickly realize that great writing ability is not really the key :D

Sorry for not going to the core of your question, but it just really surprised me that someone would go in with that mentality especially if you've already proven yourself on GMAT

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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby ppkk19 » Mon Jun 16, 2014 5:33 pm

zugzwanger wrote:
ppkk19 wrote:I have always been planning on B-school (please don't boo me off the forum), but since finding out that Northwestern offers a 3 year JD/MBA program I have started to entertain that idea more. After perusing the website, I still have a few quick questions about it:

1. They make it seem like the criteria for a JD/MBA candidate are different than either individually, but how? What does it take to get into the program? I would consider myself a pretty good candidate for Kellogg, but weak for the law school. 740 GMAT, 3.4 GPA, finance degree with a concentration in financial accounting, 4 years work experience at a successful money manager.

2. Going off the first question, should I take the LSAT? The major "con" I could foresee, is if I don't take it, they will assume I didn't think I would do well

3. This is a long one sorry- Not to lack confidence in myself, but I am going to assume I will not crush the law school portion in comparison to students there solely for law. I would imagine someone with a more writing intensive background will ultimately be able to succeed in the school quicker, and thus probably do better overall. With that being said I have no intention of practicing law, so personally I don't mind if I will not be in the top of the class because I am just there for the experience and knowledge, not to compete for the best law jobs. So assuming all this is true, will being towards the back of the pack in law classes have any negative impact on me at NU/immediately after?

Thanks in advance for any help/advice/answers!


IMO you are really shooting yourself in the foot by just assuming you won't do well on the LSAT and assuming you will be in the bottom of the class. From the little experience I have had first year, it generally seems that once you are in, everybody is on at least pretty equal footing regardless of whether someone had more intensive writing experience. If you ever read what is puked out on paper after a 3 hour final exam first year, you'll quickly realize that great writing ability is not really the key :D

Sorry for not going to the core of your question, but it just really surprised me that someone would go in with that mentality especially if you've already proven yourself on GMAT


Re-reading my original post, I definitely sound way more pessimistic than I meant to. Even though I said I don't expect to finish in the top of the class, I certainly have more faith in myself than thinking I'd be in the bottom :) . I just meant I'm assuming my background doesn't align with the background of what generally makes the ideal law student. But your response honestly made me feel so much better about that already, so thank you!

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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby cookiejar1 » Mon Jun 16, 2014 9:10 pm

How much more expensive is the dual JD/MBA program compared to getting just a MBA? Do you think the added cost is justifiable even if you don't ever intend to practice the law? Also, for what it's worth, the JD/MBA students that I know do excellently in their classes.

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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Solistus » Tue Jun 17, 2014 5:06 pm

re: summer BA

I think I can drop it until the end of next week, and I'll have three 2-hour classes before then, so I guess I have a bit of a trial run to decide if I want to go through with it. With any luck I'll be on a journal next year, while also taking pretty tough classes and keeping up the job search, so it's not like I won't have other obligations competing for my time if I take BA later anyway. A couple other questions:

* How's Prof. Lutz? A bit of googling / CTEC reading leads me to think he's pretty popular overall - good at mixing practical advice / real-world examples in with the casebook readings, a little full of himself but lots of legal war stories to tell. Is that about right? Anyone here love - or loathe - Lutz in general or his BA class in particular? Anything you wish you knew before taking his class/exam?

* Will it be at all useful for OCI? I'm thinking it should help me demonstrate an interest in business law (my current resume doesn't really do that), and might help mitigate the fact that research assistantships are less prestigious than some other 1L summer jobs.


re: JD/MBA

Yeah, in my experience JD/MBAs do just fine in JD classes. I only know (of) a couple of them, though, and I'm a 1L, so that's based on a very small sample size.

A 3.4 isn't a dealbreaker for JD admissions if you can nail the LSAT. I had a lower GPA than that, applied very late in the cycle, and still got an offer and a decent scholly. The LSAT is a very learnable test - particularly the logic games section, where learning specific tricks to 'solve' different kinds of games that are common on the LSAT makes it exponentially easier. I raised my early test scores by around 15 points just by working through half of a logic games study guide, and between the other half and a bunch of practice exams I got it up another ~10. It takes a lot of time studying and practicing if you want to do your very best - but then, so does most of what you'll have to do in law school. I don't know how the joint degree program admissions process works, but if it's anything like traditional JD apps, studying your ass off for the LSAT is by far the best thing you can do to improve your chances of admission and try to secure a scholarship. A couple months of intensive studying can mean opening the door to a great school or avoiding tens (or even hundreds) of thousands of dollars of debt. I was fortunate and privileged enough to spend months not working and living with my parents so I could focus on nothing but the LSAT, and that time investment is paying off more than any job I've ever held.

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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby bdubs » Tue Jun 17, 2014 5:18 pm

ppkk19 wrote:I have always been planning on B-school (please don't boo me off the forum), but since finding out that Northwestern offers a 3 year JD/MBA program I have started to entertain that idea more. After perusing the website, I still have a few quick questions about it:

1. [Can I get in?]

2. [Should I take the LSAT?]

3. [Will I suck at law school? Will it matter if I don't want to be a lawyer?]


I'm a JD/MBA here. These are my thoughts on your questions.

1) Yes, you have a shot at getting in with those numbers. The admissions process is run by Kellogg and they evaluate your application very similarly to a pure MBA applicant. This means that I can't tell you if you will get in or not since it depends on a lot of factors beyond your GMAT and GPA.

2) Based on the answer above, you should definitely not take the LSAT unless you want to apply to programs that require that exam to get admitted.

3) The fact that you are asking this question leads me to believe you will do alright in law classes. I think the relevance of grades is hard to determine for JD/MBAs though. They can be positive or negative, but they are mostly neutral.

Some business employers won't even ask for or look at your law school grades, but nearly all of them will ask why you went to law school instead of just getting an MBA. I think some people are surprised that the law degree can sometimes be a slight negative in business hiring. I think that could be compounded if you did poorly in your classes and look like you got a extraneous degree that you didn't even care about. On the other hand if you are a highly sought after business candidate and you do really well in law school I think it's a big plus. Everyone knows it's easy to do well in b-school, but it's hard to be near the top of the class in law school.

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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby zugzwanger » Tue Jun 17, 2014 5:28 pm

Solistus wrote:* How's Prof. Lutz? A bit of googling / CTEC reading leads me to think he's pretty popular overall - good at mixing practical advice / real-world examples in with the casebook readings, a little full of himself but lots of legal war stories to tell. Is that about right? Anyone here love - or loathe - Lutz in general or his BA class in particular? Anything you wish you knew before taking his class/exam


Interested in this as well. Frankly from what I have heard he is a great resource, but I have heard some negative things about his grading, which obviously wouldn't show up in the CTEC.

But again I have never had a class with him and maybe it's all anecdotal.




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