Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
09042014
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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby 09042014 » Sun Jun 08, 2014 4:50 pm

LRGhost wrote:
rayiner wrote:ITT: Butthurt.

Everyone misjudges one class or two as "easy" then gets pwned. Learn your lesson and get over it.


When did everyone get so serious about the time-honored activity of complaining about grades?


Since forever. Complaining about the INJUSTICE of a B when plenty of people routinely get B's is insulting. It's worse when you say BUT I"VE NEVER EVEN GOTTEN CLOSE TO A B BEFORE. HOW DARE He.

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homestyle28
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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby homestyle28 » Sun Jun 08, 2014 5:11 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
LRGhost wrote:
rayiner wrote:ITT: Butthurt.

Everyone misjudges one class or two as "easy" then gets pwned. Learn your lesson and get over it.


When did everyone get so serious about the time-honored activity of complaining about grades?


Since forever. Complaining about the INJUSTICE of a B when plenty of people routinely get B's is insulting. It's worse when you say BUT I"VE NEVER EVEN GOTTEN CLOSE TO A B BEFORE. HOW DARE He.


It's still fucked when a prof sets you up to think you're getting an A and hits you with a B, or worse. End of the world? No, esp not for 2Ls, but still blows.

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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby LRGhost » Sun Jun 08, 2014 5:31 pm

homestyle28 wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
LRGhost wrote:
rayiner wrote:ITT: Butthurt.

Everyone misjudges one class or two as "easy" then gets pwned. Learn your lesson and get over it.


When did everyone get so serious about the time-honored activity of complaining about grades?


Since forever. Complaining about the INJUSTICE of a B when plenty of people routinely get B's is insulting. It's worse when you say BUT I"VE NEVER EVEN GOTTEN CLOSE TO A B BEFORE. HOW DARE He.


It's still fucked when a prof sets you up to think you're getting an A and hits you with a B, or worse. End of the world? No, esp not for 2Ls, but still blows.


This. It's not a 1L class where you have no choice in who you get or how you game the curve. Considering that the prevailing advice seems to be to try to work the system in your favor, complaining when it doesn't work feels different?

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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Pokemon » Sun Jun 08, 2014 5:50 pm

Should a student be a little frustrated when they get a worse grade than they expected. Yes, it is human nature. Even if I fully deserve a B, I still get disappointed.

BUT, e-mailing and getting mad at the professor cause he did not live up to his reputation of being an easy grader is BS. Maybe he wants to change that reputation. Maybe the school told him to change the reputation. From D'Amato's perspective, if Horwich or Crane curve uncurved courses, why can't I??? I cannot curve because a bunch of law students heard from their upperclassman that if you take my class you are bound to get an A, and they relied on that when taking my class? If anything, if I was a prof. that would offend me.

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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby zugzwanger » Sun Jun 08, 2014 5:56 pm

Reading what people are saying about this it seems like if the professor actually gave out Cs in an uncurved class, that's on a different level of shittiness though

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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby LRGhost » Sun Jun 08, 2014 6:04 pm

Pokemon wrote:Should a student be a little frustrated when they get a worse grade than they expected. Yes, it is human nature. Even if I fully deserve a B, I still get disappointed.

BUT, e-mailing and getting mad at the professor cause he did not live up to his reputation of being an easy grader is BS. Maybe he wants to change that reputation. Maybe the school told him to change the reputation. From D'Amato's perspective, if Horwich or Crane curve uncurved courses, why can't I??? I cannot curve because a bunch of law students heard from their upperclassman that if you take my class you are bound to get an A, and they relied on that when taking my class? If anything, if I was a prof. that would offend me.


Dude, do you really think someone is going to email the prof and be like "Yo, fuck you?" Come on. People are upset that they did worse in a class they should have done better in. If nobody can meet til the Spring semester to explain why someone got a C and was bumped up to a B due to kindness, that is super fucked up. Discuss through email. Nobody is saying to hold someone hostage and demand a grade change. It seems like the frustration is in the nature of the exam and the fact that some people can't find out why they got the grade they did.

09042014
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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby 09042014 » Sun Jun 08, 2014 6:11 pm

LRGhost wrote:
homestyle28 wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
LRGhost wrote:
When did everyone get so serious about the time-honored activity of complaining about grades?


Since forever. Complaining about the INJUSTICE of a B when plenty of people routinely get B's is insulting. It's worse when you say BUT I"VE NEVER EVEN GOTTEN CLOSE TO A B BEFORE. HOW DARE He.


It's still fucked when a prof sets you up to think you're getting an A and hits you with a B, or worse. End of the world? No, esp not for 2Ls, but still blows.


This. It's not a 1L class where you have no choice in who you get or how you game the curve. Considering that the prevailing advice seems to be to try to work the system in your favor, complaining when it doesn't work feels different?


Being upset that your attempted gaming of the system failed to work is a bit silly.

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parkslope
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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby parkslope » Sun Jun 08, 2014 7:09 pm

A couple points here:

1. Northwestern's winking-and-nodding grading for 2Ls and 3Ls creates unrealistic expectations for students. Because of all the gaming with adjunct faculty, 39-student doctrinal classes, easy A's in clinic/ITP/etc., and so on, it sets up expectations of cushy grading that may not translate to individual classes. Getting a B as a 1L is a very common occurrence. The curve is set up so that a minimum of 63% of students get a B+ or lower. I'm not sure that B's are unheard of as 2L or 3L.

2. I am guessing that the faculty/administration know that grade inflation is reaching a ridiculous point. I wouldn't be surprised if they are starting to lean on faculty to move things downward.

3. Also, why are students taking professors at face value? Some classes that seemed really intense grading-wise turned out not to be, and vice verse. Don't slack off just because a class seems easy.

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Holly Golightly
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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Holly Golightly » Sun Jun 08, 2014 9:07 pm

I agree with a lot of the things people are saying about how people need to suck it up. Hat said, it does suck when a prof in an uncurved class says not to study, gives a 1400 word exam, and then gives a bunch of Bs.

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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby bricktemplar » Mon Jun 09, 2014 10:44 am

Noob here so forgive the naiveté. But I honestly find it difficult to justify the feeling of "deserving" a higher grade based on past data points alone. All these classes are a crapshoot--you can easily randomly underperform, or your classmates can randomly outperform, on any given exam (not to even get into the arbitrariness of grading itself).

Trying to game the system to pick 'easier' classes is rarely reliable in my opinion. I wonder how other 1Ls fared as well in courses that have supposedly been historically 'easy' A's/A+'s.

Edit: One additional point. Professors are probably also aware of their grade distributions term to term. I doubt those fluctuate too heavily. (E.g., the distribution could very well be the same as last term's and you're just one of the unlucky few to get the B).

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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby bjsesq » Mon Jun 09, 2014 10:53 am

<<<<<D is last semester that dropped me .01 short of cum laude. It sucks, but just look forward and don't fret on it too much. Shit happens, but you'll be ok.

09042014
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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby 09042014 » Mon Jun 09, 2014 10:59 am

bjsesq wrote:<<<<<D is last semester that dropped me .01 short of cum laude. It sucks, but just look forward and don't fret on it too much. Shit happens, but you'll be ok.


I got .01 above Cum Laude because Barsa gave me an A in a class I never went to, not even once.

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Cobretti
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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Cobretti » Mon Jun 09, 2014 11:05 am

Desert Fox wrote:
bjsesq wrote:<<<<<D is last semester that dropped me .01 short of cum laude. It sucks, but just look forward and don't fret on it too much. Shit happens, but you'll be ok.


I got .01 above Cum Laude because Barsa gave me an A in a class I never went to, not even once.

Barsa wrote an entire property final using characters/events from the wire. Even if he graded like an asshole everyone should still take his classes, he is a boss.

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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby LRGhost » Mon Jun 09, 2014 11:14 am

FWIW, I will say that when grades are disappointing, it's natural to think there was a mistake. When grades are great, "I DESERVED THIS!"

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bjsesq
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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby bjsesq » Mon Jun 09, 2014 11:19 am

LRGhost wrote:FWIW, I will say that when grades are disappointing, it's natural to think there was a mistake. When grades are great, "I DESERVED THIS!"


I agree.

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Dr. Filth
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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Dr. Filth » Mon Jun 09, 2014 12:18 pm

LRGhost wrote:FWIW, I will say that when grades are disappointing, it's natural to think there was a mistake. When grades are great, "I DESERVED THIS!"


LRGhost wrote:CLR, tho.

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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby bananasplit19 » Mon Jun 09, 2014 1:17 pm

Not that I'm necessarily interested or have the grades for it, but how does TA selection work for 1L classes? Does the prof ask students at his/her discretion? Do they also ask A students as well, or is it an A+ only thing?

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Micdiddy
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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Micdiddy » Mon Jun 09, 2014 1:23 pm

bananasplit19 wrote:Not that I'm necessarily interested or have the grades for it, but how does TA selection work for 1L classes? Does the prof ask students at his/her discretion? Do they also ask A students as well, or is it an A+ only thing?


People I know who TA approached the professor. For fall classes you are probably out of luck, but for Spring ones email the prof like now, couldn't hurt.

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homestyle28
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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby homestyle28 » Mon Jun 09, 2014 1:46 pm

Way to generate an email, whiners!

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bjsesq
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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby bjsesq » Mon Jun 09, 2014 1:50 pm

homestyle28 wrote:Way to generate an email, whiners!


?

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Holly Golightly
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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Holly Golightly » Mon Jun 09, 2014 1:50 pm

homestyle28 wrote:Way to generate an email, whiners!

Post pls

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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Flips88 » Mon Jun 09, 2014 1:53 pm

TO: All Law Students (and Graduates!)

FROM: Lesley Kagan Wynes
Susie Spies Roth
Cliff Zimmerman

RE: Grading Policies and Understanding Your Spring Semester Performance

Students,

On Friday, you passed another milestone on your professional journey: the receipt of your Spring semester grades. No doubt, some of you are ecstatic, some of you are disappointed, and many of you are a combination of both emotions or somewhere in between. As you process your Spring semester performance, please take into account these important Northwestern Law grading policies and our tips for approaching professors with questions about your grades.


· Once grades are posted, they are final. A professor may request a grade change ONLY if the professor made a recording error (e.g. selecting the wrong letter from the drop down menu in CAESAR) or if the professor made a calculation error (e.g. failing to include points earned one of the exam questions or one of the class assignments). There are no grade appeals.



· Approach your professors only if you want to learn something about your performance. The goal in reviewing your spring semester performance is to learn how to better your lawyering skills. You should contact your professor if you want to better understand where you were successful and where you struggled in your spring semester courses. Doing so should always be in the context of learning how to build upon your strengths and tackle any weaknesses or mistakes in your future coursework or professional endeavors.



· Do not approach professors if all you want to do is challenge your grades. Doing so wastes your valuable time and your professor’s valuable time because (1) our grade policy does not allow for grade changes absent two very narrow circumstances and (2) our educational mission is to train you to be better analytical thinkers and lawyers who seek for knowledge about processes and not just changes to outcomes.



· Do manage your emotions when talking with your professors. It’s understandable to be emotional when talking about feelings of disappointment, but remember that your interactions with your professors should be treated the same as your interactions with supervisors in a professional work setting. Thus, remember to keep a respectful and polite tone in your written and oral communications, and be sure that any anger about your grades has been resolved before you talk with your professor. If you are having trouble coping with your emotions or your performance, then you should contact CAPS at 847-491-2151 and talk with a counselor.


Have a great summer!

Lesley, Susie & Cliff

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Micdiddy
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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Micdiddy » Mon Jun 09, 2014 1:54 pm

Holly Golightly wrote:
homestyle28 wrote:Way to generate an email, whiners!

Post pls


Kagan sent out an email on grading policies stating there is no appeal process and to not approach Profs to challenge your grade, only to understand why you got the grade you did.

Edit: completely scooped and outclassed.

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Holly Golightly
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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Holly Golightly » Mon Jun 09, 2014 2:11 pm

lol @ seek counseling if you're mad about your grades. :lol:

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homestyle28
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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby homestyle28 » Mon Jun 09, 2014 2:15 pm

Holly Golightly wrote:lol @ seek counseling if you're mad about your grades. :lol:


Don't laugh, law students who get irrationally mad about their grades need the most counseling...





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