Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

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lawschool22
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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby lawschool22 » Sun Apr 06, 2014 10:56 pm

At the ASW I got the impression that CLR was horrible. What's the deal? Is that unique to NU, or do all law schools have a similarly horrible version of that course?

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rinkrat19
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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby rinkrat19 » Sun Apr 06, 2014 10:58 pm

lawschool22 wrote:At the ASW I got the impression that CLR was horrible. What's the deal? Is that unique to NU, or do all law schools have a similarly horrible version of that course?

Pretty sure it's hated at all schools. NU's is particularly bad because it's graded and a lot of work, but only worth 2 credits.

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Flips88
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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Flips88 » Sun Apr 06, 2014 10:59 pm

lawschool22 wrote:At the ASW I got the impression that CLR was horrible. What's the deal? Is that unique to NU, or do all law schools have a similarly horrible version of that course?

It's heavily dependent on what prof you had I think. I really liked my CLR prof and class by extension. The knock everyone has on it is that it's graded and pretty arbitrary.

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rinkrat19
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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby rinkrat19 » Sun Apr 06, 2014 11:03 pm

Flips88 wrote:
lawschool22 wrote:At the ASW I got the impression that CLR was horrible. What's the deal? Is that unique to NU, or do all law schools have a similarly horrible version of that course?

It's heavily dependent on what prof you had I think. I really liked my CLR prof and class by extension. The knock everyone has on it is that it's graded and pretty arbitrary.

To put this in perspective, my class had 9 sections of CLR and you only heard any students say nice things about ONE of the CLR professors.

My CLR prof gave us sadistic word limits (usually about 10% lower than all the other sections on the same assignment) and utterly useless and inconsistent feedback. First time in my life that I felt like a bad writer. But then my 1L summer bosses told me I wrote really well and they were going to reconsider their policy of not usually hiring 1Ls.

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bk1
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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby bk1 » Sun Apr 06, 2014 11:04 pm

Flips88 wrote:
lawschool22 wrote:At the ASW I got the impression that CLR was horrible. What's the deal? Is that unique to NU, or do all law schools have a similarly horrible version of that course?

It's heavily dependent on what prof you had I think. I really liked my CLR prof and class by extension. The knock everyone has on it is that it's graded and pretty arbitrary.

It's also just far more work than every other class you have until finals hits (though you never have work for it during finals).

zugzwanger
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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby zugzwanger » Sun Apr 06, 2014 11:15 pm

I'm pretty sure everybody dislikes CLR everywhere...I think some schools have it as a semester and/or not graded v. we have it all year and graded so people complain about that. The amount the class sucks is probably not proportionate to how much people complain about it, but when you take it, you will complain the exact same amount haha! It won't make sense until you take it.

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cookiejar1
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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby cookiejar1 » Mon Apr 07, 2014 1:56 am

I've gone into my second semester of CLR knowing that I wouldn't, really, learn anything and it's been really great so far. My brief isn't an exercise in legal writing, no, it's an exercise in somehow reinforcing every tiny little bullet point in my prof's grading rubric. Maybe it's just my terribad CLR professor but religiously following every inane arbitrary bulletpoint gleaned from a lecture >>>>>>>> coming up with a compelling legal argument.

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rinkrat19
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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby rinkrat19 » Mon Apr 07, 2014 2:28 am

cookiejar1 wrote:I've gone into my second semester of CLR knowing that I wouldn't, really, learn anything and it's been really great so far. My brief isn't an exercise in legal writing, no, it's an exercise in somehow reinforcing every tiny little bullet point in my prof's grading rubric. Maybe it's just my terribad CLR professor but religiously following every inane arbitrary bulletpoint gleaned from a lecture >>>>>>>> coming up with a compelling legal argument.

Wow, your assignments are graded against some sort of consistent rubric? That must be nice.

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Cobretti
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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Cobretti » Mon Apr 07, 2014 9:19 am

cookiejar1 wrote:I've gone into my second semester of CLR knowing that I wouldn't, really, learn anything and it's been really great so far. My brief isn't an exercise in legal writing, no, it's an exercise in somehow reinforcing every tiny little bullet point in my prof's grading rubric. Maybe it's just my terribad CLR professor but religiously following every inane arbitrary bulletpoint gleaned from a lecture >>>>>>>> coming up with a compelling legal argument.

lol@compelling legal arguments in clr

whereskyle
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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby whereskyle » Mon Apr 07, 2014 9:29 am

Can CLR assignments translate into effective writing samples? Did anybody use material from undergrad? Any other examples of writing samples?

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Flips88
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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Flips88 » Mon Apr 07, 2014 9:32 am

whereskyle wrote:Can CLR assignments translate into effective writing samples? Did anybody use material from undergrad? Any other examples of writing samples?

do not use anything from undergrad

I'd say it's pretty standard to use your CLR brief or memo for a writing sample.

LRGhost
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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby LRGhost » Mon Apr 07, 2014 9:49 am

Cobretti wrote:
cookiejar1 wrote:I've gone into my second semester of CLR knowing that I wouldn't, really, learn anything and it's been really great so far. My brief isn't an exercise in legal writing, no, it's an exercise in somehow reinforcing every tiny little bullet point in my prof's grading rubric. Maybe it's just my terribad CLR professor but religiously following every inane arbitrary bulletpoint gleaned from a lecture >>>>>>>> coming up with a compelling legal argument.

lol@ clr


FTFY

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lgleye
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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby lgleye » Mon Apr 07, 2014 11:49 am

.
Last edited by lgleye on Sat Jul 05, 2014 12:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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KremeCheez
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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby KremeCheez » Mon Apr 07, 2014 1:32 pm

Anyone have an outline for Environmental Law (Barsa) they'd be willing to share with me?

09042014
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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby 09042014 » Mon Apr 07, 2014 2:46 pm

KremeCheez wrote:Anyone have an outline for Environmental Law (Barsa) they'd be willing to share with me?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/5mb9gnd3rqggx ... mental.rar

I basically used the checklist as an Outline. That test is hard, he tests fucking everything. But he's a good grader.

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homestyle28
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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby homestyle28 » Mon Apr 07, 2014 2:50 pm

Anyone gone through Lutz's large law firm class that has any insight on the exam, or an outline?

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bk1
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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby bk1 » Mon Apr 07, 2014 3:01 pm

Desert Fox wrote:That test is hard, he tests fucking everything. But he's a good grader.

+1

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d cooper
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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby d cooper » Mon Apr 07, 2014 3:14 pm

Is the grading for CLR so capricious that if you took assignments to your instructor every week to receive feedback before submitting, you wouldn't come out with any consistent rules to structure your papers by? I'm trying to understand what people mean when they say grading is arbitrary.

09042014
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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby 09042014 » Mon Apr 07, 2014 3:17 pm

d cooper wrote:Is the grading for CLR so capricious that if you took assignments to your instructor every week to receive feedback before submitting, you wouldn't come out with any consistent rules to structure your papers by? I'm trying to understand what people mean when they say grading is arbitrary.


They mean they are butthurt about not doing well.

LRGhost
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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby LRGhost » Mon Apr 07, 2014 3:17 pm

d cooper wrote:Is the grading for CLR so capricious that if you took assignments to your instructor every week to receive feedback before submitting, you wouldn't come out with any consistent rules to structure your papers by? I'm trying to understand what people mean when they say grading is arbitrary.


I've done this. It didn't help. I literally made changes that were requested only for them to be criticized on the actual paper. It's bullshit.

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rinkrat19
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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby rinkrat19 » Mon Apr 07, 2014 3:17 pm

d cooper wrote:Is the grading for CLR so capricious that if you took assignments to your instructor every week to receive feedback before submitting, you wouldn't come out with any consistent rules to structure your papers by? I'm trying to understand what people mean when they say grading is arbitrary.

I don't know about all the profs, but my prof would only look at one half page, double-spaced, of an assignment in progress. You could take that half page to her more than once, and you could ask her verbal questions as much as you wanted, but she wouldn't look at any more of your paper than that. And we could only show the TA the same half page too.

And you could follow a criticism of hers TO THE LETTER and be told the next time she read it that your change was wrong and it should be the way you had it to begin with.

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rayiner
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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby rayiner » Mon Apr 07, 2014 3:19 pm

LRGhost wrote:
d cooper wrote:Is the grading for CLR so capricious that if you took assignments to your instructor every week to receive feedback before submitting, you wouldn't come out with any consistent rules to structure your papers by? I'm trying to understand what people mean when they say grading is arbitrary.


I've done this. It didn't help. I literally made changes that were requested only for them to be criticized on the actual paper. It's bullshit.


Get used to it, your clients will do this too.

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Micdiddy
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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Micdiddy » Mon Apr 07, 2014 3:20 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
d cooper wrote:Is the grading for CLR so capricious that if you took assignments to your instructor every week to receive feedback before submitting, you wouldn't come out with any consistent rules to structure your papers by? I'm trying to understand what people mean when they say grading is arbitrary.


They mean they are butthurt about not doing well.


Pretty much. Some will say that they followed their Professors advice and then were graded down for it, but that seems extreme and rare (and likely they just did something wrong, as is usually the case when a student disagrees with a Professor). I think there are definitely right and wrong ways to organize and structure a CLR paper and your Professor will actually try to help you (usually. I've only had one CLR paper so I could be completely wrong about the others).

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rinkrat19
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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby rinkrat19 » Mon Apr 07, 2014 3:20 pm

rayiner wrote:
LRGhost wrote:
d cooper wrote:Is the grading for CLR so capricious that if you took assignments to your instructor every week to receive feedback before submitting, you wouldn't come out with any consistent rules to structure your papers by? I'm trying to understand what people mean when they say grading is arbitrary.


I've done this. It didn't help. I literally made changes that were requested only for them to be criticized on the actual paper. It's bullshit.


Get used to it, your clients will do this too.

Yeah, but clients are dumb and don't know what they want, and they're paying for your time anyway. A CLR prof is presumably supposed to teach you to do something the "right" way.

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homestyle28
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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby homestyle28 » Mon Apr 07, 2014 3:21 pm

rayiner wrote:
LRGhost wrote:
d cooper wrote:Is the grading for CLR so capricious that if you took assignments to your instructor every week to receive feedback before submitting, you wouldn't come out with any consistent rules to structure your papers by? I'm trying to understand what people mean when they say grading is arbitrary.


I've done this. It didn't help. I literally made changes that were requested only for them to be criticized on the actual paper. It's bullshit.


Get used to it, your clients will do this too.


CLR Profs = taking my $10k to give me arbitrary feedback
Clients = giving me $10k to give me arbitrary feedback

Although neither is ideal, one is preferable.




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