Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

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Dr. Filth
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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Dr. Filth » Tue Jan 21, 2014 8:41 pm

whereskyle wrote:I'm very interested in clerking. Are fewer students pursuing clerkships at NU, or are more students striking out compared to peer schools? Also, what exactly is a GPA floor in the clerkship game? Does Career Services set it, or do judges set it?

honestly if youre that worried about clerkships you probably should try hys(maybe chi)

R1chardParker
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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby R1chardParker » Tue Jan 21, 2014 8:45 pm

whereskyle wrote:I'm very interested in clerking. Are fewer students pursuing clerkships at NU, or are more students striking out compared to peer schools? Also, what exactly is a GPA floor in the clerkship game? Does Career Services set it, or do judges set it?


There are a decent amount of students at NU focused only on transactional law and/or who are older with S/Os that make clerkships impractical because of either geographical reasons or just wanting to get on with their lives. It is hard to quantify, but there are definitely people who would be competitive for clerkships that choose not to apply.

whereskyle
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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby whereskyle » Tue Jan 21, 2014 8:47 pm

captainplanet wrote:
franklyscarlet wrote:
whereskyle wrote:
captainplanet wrote:
I think that there can be such a thing as too much public service WE (like more than 3 years) for OCI though, because firms can start to question whether you'd actually want to work in BigLaw or just move back to PI after the summer or after a year or two at the firm. That said, I don't think that applies to your situation and that your paralegal experience and public service work will look good, but you should have an answer for why you want to work in BigLaw.


Haha, anyone want to throw out a clever response to "why biglaw?"


My resume is fucking littered with PI stuff, so I definitely ran into this problem (a few firms, chicago firms especially, asked me outright if I really wanted to work at a firm after looking at my resume). I think there's a few ways to approach it:

1) Develop a really specific answer for why you want that firm in particular. Good to do in any case, but it's particularly helpful in combatting the image that you're just in it to jump ship in a few years. It's especially helpful to look to the kind of work they've done that speaks to your skills/interests so you can say "I want to come to a place that does things like X and I know a firm is where I'm going to get that."
2) Don't ask about Pro Bono in your interview, or if so, do it in a way that plays to the firm. For example, I asked about it at the one firm that I knew had a legitimate committment to it and often sent attorneys to PD offices for rotations, because I wanted to relate my experience to the culture of the firm.
3) Being into a practice area that doesn't scream PI doesn't hurt. Firms had no problem believing I wanted them when I told them right off the bat that I was interested in a pretty corporate area.

All in all, there's no one good answer on this. Brush up on your acting skills. Be convincing no matter what. It may matter to firms, it may not.


The career services office suggested focusing on skills rather than the job itself, as in, "What I really enjoyed about my PI job is writing and research, experience I would be able to bring to a firm." Not sure if it works ... but it's one way to pivot back to why you want to work at a firm.


Definitely! That seems like great advice. I am cataloging things to say about my job at Habitat that aren't "I enjoyed saving the world."

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cookiejar1
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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby cookiejar1 » Tue Jan 21, 2014 9:33 pm

whereskyle wrote:I'm very interested in clerking. Are fewer students pursuing clerkships at NU, or are more students striking out compared to peer schools? Also, what exactly is a GPA floor in the clerkship game? Does Career Services set it, or do judges set it?


As far as I know everything is pretty much run through Kadens. I'm a 1L so what do I know but I think 3.8+ is a good starting point for clerkships, yeah?

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Dr. Filth
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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Dr. Filth » Tue Jan 21, 2014 9:40 pm

cookiejar1 wrote:
whereskyle wrote:I'm very interested in clerking. Are fewer students pursuing clerkships at NU, or are more students striking out compared to peer schools? Also, what exactly is a GPA floor in the clerkship game? Does Career Services set it, or do judges set it?


As far as I know everything is pretty much run through Kadens. I'm a 1L so what do I know but I think 3.8+ is a good starting point for clerkships, yeah?

thats what ive heard more or less. 1L too tho

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Flips88
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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Flips88 » Tue Jan 21, 2014 9:44 pm

cookiejar1 wrote:
whereskyle wrote:I'm very interested in clerking. Are fewer students pursuing clerkships at NU, or are more students striking out compared to peer schools? Also, what exactly is a GPA floor in the clerkship game? Does Career Services set it, or do judges set it?


As far as I know everything is pretty much run through Kadens. I'm a 1L so what do I know but I think 3.8+ is a good starting point for clerkships, yeah?

Kaden's little handbook guidelines say:

For CoAs: Strongest chances with 3.9-4.0+. Still a chance with 3.8+ if you have good recs and other factors going for you.

For Dist. Cts: 3.5-3.6+ can be competitive in less desirable markets. Competitive district judges will have high standards like CoAs.

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cookiejar1
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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby cookiejar1 » Tue Jan 21, 2014 9:54 pm

Flips88 wrote:
cookiejar1 wrote:
whereskyle wrote:I'm very interested in clerking. Are fewer students pursuing clerkships at NU, or are more students striking out compared to peer schools? Also, what exactly is a GPA floor in the clerkship game? Does Career Services set it, or do judges set it?


As far as I know everything is pretty much run through Kadens. I'm a 1L so what do I know but I think 3.8+ is a good starting point for clerkships, yeah?

Kaden's little handbook guidelines say:

For CoAs: Strongest chances with 3.9-4.0+. Still a chance with 3.8+ if you have good recs and other factors going for you.

For Dist. Cts: 3.5-3.6+ can be competitive in less desirable markets. Competitive district judges will have high standards like CoAs.


Noob question: Clerkship GPA is 1L + Summer + first semester 2L right?

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Flips88
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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Flips88 » Tue Jan 21, 2014 9:56 pm

cookiejar1 wrote:Noob question: Clerkship GPA is 1L + Summer + first semester 2L right?

Yeah and some judges will wait for your spring 2L grades too (Flaum for example). No idea how things like that will work with the Plan dying and it being a free for all.

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Dr. Filth
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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Dr. Filth » Tue Jan 21, 2014 10:00 pm

Flips88 wrote:
cookiejar1 wrote:
whereskyle wrote:I'm very interested in clerking. Are fewer students pursuing clerkships at NU, or are more students striking out compared to peer schools? Also, what exactly is a GPA floor in the clerkship game? Does Career Services set it, or do judges set it?


As far as I know everything is pretty much run through Kadens. I'm a 1L so what do I know but I think 3.8+ is a good starting point for clerkships, yeah?

Kaden's little handbook guidelines say:

For CoAs: Strongest chances with 3.9-4.0+. Still a chance with 3.8+ if you have good recs and other factors going for you.

For Dist. Cts: 3.5-3.6+ can be competitive in less desirable markets. Competitive district judges will have high standards like CoAs.

does this still apply after graduation?

like if you went to go work for a year or two and then tried to work for COA

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Georgia Avenue
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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Georgia Avenue » Tue Jan 21, 2014 10:30 pm

Dr. Filth wrote:
Flips88 wrote:
cookiejar1 wrote:
whereskyle wrote:I'm very interested in clerking. Are fewer students pursuing clerkships at NU, or are more students striking out compared to peer schools? Also, what exactly is a GPA floor in the clerkship game? Does Career Services set it, or do judges set it?


As far as I know everything is pretty much run through Kadens. I'm a 1L so what do I know but I think 3.8+ is a good starting point for clerkships, yeah?

Kaden's little handbook guidelines say:

For CoAs: Strongest chances with 3.9-4.0+. Still a chance with 3.8+ if you have good recs and other factors going for you.

For Dist. Cts: 3.5-3.6+ can be competitive in less desirable markets. Competitive district judges will have high standards like CoAs.

does this still apply after graduation?

like if you went to go work for a year or two and then tried to work for COA


flips is probably a better guy to answer but i would imagine post-LS work experience at a large firm can't hurt. i know some district judges consider litigation experience at a large firm to be a major plus, so you may be able to be competitive with a slightly lower GPA (i think kadens says something similar fwiw). not sure how it would work for CoA

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cookiejar1
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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby cookiejar1 » Wed Jan 22, 2014 2:36 am

I guess the more interesting point about Dr. Filth's post is whether a student can take advantage of full grade inflation over 3 years of law school . . . I'd imagine you could get your GPA pretty high over 6+ semesters compared to the 3/4+ semesters you'd have when applying during the "traditional" cycle.

Although you'd lose that potential opportunity to stack all your hard classes into your 3rd year.

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Dr. Filth
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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Dr. Filth » Wed Jan 22, 2014 9:40 am

cookiejar1 wrote:I guess the more interesting point about Dr. Filth's post is whether a student can take advantage of full grade inflation over 3 years of law school . . . I'd imagine you could get your GPA pretty high over 6+ semesters compared to the 3/4+ semesters you'd have when applying during the "traditional" cycle.

Although you'd lose that potential opportunity to stack all your hard classes into your 3rd year.

haha that was my thought. even with those hard classes, I would imagine your GPA would be higher after 3L than after 2.5L

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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby parkslope » Thu Jan 23, 2014 12:05 am

Dr. Filth wrote:
cookiejar1 wrote:I guess the more interesting point about Dr. Filth's post is whether a student can take advantage of full grade inflation over 3 years of law school . . . I'd imagine you could get your GPA pretty high over 6+ semesters compared to the 3/4+ semesters you'd have when applying during the "traditional" cycle.

Although you'd lose that potential opportunity to stack all your hard classes into your 3rd year.

haha that was my thought. even with those hard classes, I would imagine your GPA would be higher after 3L than after 2.5L


How do judges look at 2L-3L grade inflation? Like a student who had a 3.8 from the beginning looked at differently than the student who went from 3.6 to 3.8?

09042014
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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby 09042014 » Thu Jan 23, 2014 12:10 am

I doubt judges can really tell the extent of the grade inflation. Northwestern is a smaller school so they don't get to see a ton of GPAs. At least not to enough to figure out that 3.65 is median at graduation.

onionz
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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby onionz » Thu Jan 23, 2014 12:18 am

1) Are COA summer externships a thing? Or just district court?

2) Outside of connections/diversity, any idea what kind of GPA is a good chance at a 1L SA?

Not really sure what I want to do this summer, but I'd like to be paid all other things being equal...

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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby parkslope » Thu Jan 23, 2014 12:27 am

onionz wrote:1) Are COA summer externships a thing? Or just district court?

2) Outside of connections/diversity, any idea what kind of GPA is a good chance at a 1L SA?

Not really sure what I want to do this summer, but I'd like to be paid all other things being equal...


1L SA is kind of flame. That being said, there ARE non-diversity SAs, even at major firms, but they tend to be very few in number and go to HYS types. I think some Chicago firms take a few 1Ls. I don't know for sure, but my guess is that 3.8+ and strong softs (IP, work experience, etc.) would be necessary for them.

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parkslope
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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby parkslope » Thu Jan 23, 2014 12:31 am

Desert Fox wrote:I doubt judges can really tell the extent of the grade inflation. Northwestern is a smaller school so they don't get to see a ton of GPAs. At least not to enough to figure out that 3.65 is median at graduation.


Right, but it is fairly obvious when the grades are so starkly different from 1L to 2L-3L, no?

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Flips88
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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Flips88 » Thu Jan 23, 2014 12:46 am

parkslope wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:I doubt judges can really tell the extent of the grade inflation. Northwestern is a smaller school so they don't get to see a ton of GPAs. At least not to enough to figure out that 3.65 is median at graduation.


Right, but it is fairly obvious when the grades are so starkly different from 1L to 2L-3L, no?

I don't think our transcripts even say whether a class you took was uncurved or not so a judge not very familiar with Northwestern would have no idea. I'm guessing more locally, judges are familiar with the grade inflation. Plus many judges will have Northwestern clerks looking at apps too and they'll know.

09042014
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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby 09042014 » Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:50 am

Flips88 wrote:
parkslope wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:I doubt judges can really tell the extent of the grade inflation. Northwestern is a smaller school so they don't get to see a ton of GPAs. At least not to enough to figure out that 3.65 is median at graduation.


Right, but it is fairly obvious when the grades are so starkly different from 1L to 2L-3L, no?

I don't think our transcripts even say whether a class you took was uncurved or not so a judge not very familiar with Northwestern would have no idea. I'm guessing more locally, judges are familiar with the grade inflation. Plus many judges will have Northwestern clerks looking at apps too and they'll know.


I'm not even sure if most students really know.

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lgleye
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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby lgleye » Thu Jan 23, 2014 12:00 pm

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Last edited by lgleye on Sat Jul 05, 2014 12:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Snape » Thu Jan 23, 2014 12:57 pm

parkslope wrote:
onionz wrote:
1L SA is kind of flame. That being said, there ARE non-diversity SAs, even at major firms, but they tend to be very few in number and go to HYS types. I think some Chicago firms take a few 1Ls. I don't know for sure, but my guess is that 3.8+ and strong softs (IP, work experience, etc.) would be necessary for them.


This is just failed logic. 3.8+ certainly helps but is by no means necessary.

Also, why so much worry about if judges know about grade inflation? Who cares? Either you are applying and want to clerk or you aren't. Or is this from 1L gunners who want their 1L grades glorified forever and fear that "inflation" may take away from their successful first two semesters?

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lgleye
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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby lgleye » Thu Jan 23, 2014 2:23 pm

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Last edited by lgleye on Sat Jul 05, 2014 12:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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parkslope
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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby parkslope » Thu Jan 23, 2014 2:57 pm

Snape wrote:
parkslope wrote:
onionz wrote:
1L SA is kind of flame. That being said, there ARE non-diversity SAs, even at major firms, but they tend to be very few in number and go to HYS types. I think some Chicago firms take a few 1Ls. I don't know for sure, but my guess is that 3.8+ and strong softs (IP, work experience, etc.) would be necessary for them.


This is just failed logic. 3.8+ certainly helps but is by no means necessary.

Also, why so much worry about if judges know about grade inflation? Who cares? Either you are applying and want to clerk or you aren't. Or is this from 1L gunners who want their 1L grades glorified forever and fear that "inflation" may take away from their successful first two semesters?


Definitely not a self-hating 1L, that's for sure.

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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby crumpetsandtea » Thu Jan 23, 2014 8:09 pm

lgleye wrote:Totally agree with so much obsessing over minutae.

Goodness gracious, how times have changed! Lgleye telling others not to obsess over minutae? :P <3

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lgleye
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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby lgleye » Fri Jan 24, 2014 10:53 am

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