Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
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franklyscarlet
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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby franklyscarlet » Tue Jul 16, 2013 11:00 am

Also, a question- do we need to be shooting for 5 classes/14 credits? I thought that's what we needed, but everyone I talk to seems to only mention 4.

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Samara
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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Samara » Tue Jul 16, 2013 11:02 am

Holly Golightly wrote:And to the guy/girl who wants to clerk: chill out a little re: grades. You can't control for everything, and most people don't get straight As/A+s. Take the core clerkship classes and some nice uncurved classes, do Kadens's shit, and also take some classes that you actually want to take. Clerkships are a crapshoot for most people, and you should also make sure to enjoy law school.



...shit. Do I sound like Cliff?

I don't see any Springsteen quotes, so I think you're good.

Serious question: Given that clerkships are a crapshoot, how much of a disadvantage is it to not take any of the "core" classes?

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Icculus
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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Icculus » Tue Jul 16, 2013 11:03 am

franklyscarlet wrote:Also, a question- do we need to be shooting for 5 classes/14 credits? I thought that's what we needed, but everyone I talk to seems to only mention 4.


Depends on how many credits you already have and if you are taking any summer courses. Also, be careful with 12 Credits. I did that one semester but on class was a 4 credit class (Sec Reg) and let's just say that it had significantly more weight in my GPA than I would have liked.

If you do take 5 classes make sure you do not have 5 exams. That would suck.

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Icculus
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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Icculus » Tue Jul 16, 2013 11:06 am

Samara wrote:
Holly Golightly wrote:And to the guy/girl who wants to clerk: chill out a little re: grades. You can't control for everything, and most people don't get straight As/A+s. Take the core clerkship classes and some nice uncurved classes, do Kadens's shit, and also take some classes that you actually want to take. Clerkships are a crapshoot for most people, and you should also make sure to enjoy law school.



...shit. Do I sound like Cliff?

I don't see any Springsteen quotes, so I think you're good.

Serious question: Given that clerkships are a crapshoot, how much of a disadvantage is it to not take any of the "core" classes?



If you are going for COA I think they are absolutely necessary. District and state maybe less so, and BK I don't think they matter.

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bk1
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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby bk1 » Tue Jul 16, 2013 11:07 am

Icculus wrote:
Samara wrote:Serious question: Given that clerkships are a crapshoot, how much of a disadvantage is it to not take any of the "core" classes?
If you are going for COA I think they are absolutely necessary. District and state maybe less so, and BK I don't think they matter.

I'm not sure I'd go that far and say they are necessary for CoA.

My take: nobody really knows. I don't think you'd be at a disadvantage by avoiding classes like admin, fed jur, civ pro 2, etc and instead taking stuff like IP, copyright, environmental law, etc. I do think you'd be at a disadvantage if you just filled your schedule with fluff like a million "law and X" classes. Don't be afraid to take some fluff, just don't go overboard with it.

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Samara
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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Samara » Tue Jul 16, 2013 11:23 am

Good enough for me. Thanks!

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elibrarian
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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby elibrarian » Tue Jul 16, 2013 11:40 am

Thanks all for the advice re: clerkships and scheduling. Much appreciated!

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Icculus
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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Icculus » Tue Jul 16, 2013 12:11 pm

bk1 wrote:
Icculus wrote:
Samara wrote:Serious question: Given that clerkships are a crapshoot, how much of a disadvantage is it to not take any of the "core" classes?
If you are going for COA I think they are absolutely necessary. District and state maybe less so, and BK I don't think they matter.

I'm not sure I'd go that far and say they are necessary for CoA.

My take: nobody really knows. I don't think you'd be at a disadvantage by avoiding classes like admin, fed jur, civ pro 2, etc and instead taking stuff like IP, copyright, environmental law, etc. I do think you'd be at a disadvantage if you just filled your schedule with fluff like a million "law and X" classes. Don't be afraid to take some fluff, just don't go overboard with it.


I am basing my answer purley on info from Kadens. Full disclosure I didn't apply to any COA, and from what I can gather, GPA>>>>>Schedule provided schedule is not all fluff.

As for copyright since some people are talking about it, loved the class and HIGHLY recommend it. DiCola is great and I found the grading system was more than fair.

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D-hops
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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby D-hops » Tue Jul 16, 2013 12:59 pm

Flips88 wrote:Thoughts on:

Antitrust – McGinnins
Con Crim Pro – Jacobi
Copyright – DiCola
Criminal RICO Prosecutions
Law and Rhetoric – Lupo
Ethics – Hilliker
Ethics – Foster
Natural Resources – Barsa
Telecommunications – Speta



DiCola tried to do a bunch of stuff with participation and in class exercises that I found to be a supreme waste of time, plus he takes attendance. This was a new thing for him this year so he may back off of it a little, or not, I would check the syllabus and see if you want to commit to a lot of annoying stuff. It is not a simple doctrine/issue spotter class.

Barsa is great, and natural resources is an interesting class (though not easy doctrine). If it's uncurved it is great because he is an easy grader. Curved can be rough because it usually ends up around 42 people or so.

bdubs
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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby bdubs » Tue Jul 16, 2013 1:30 pm

Holly Golightly wrote:
hmlee wrote:Antitrust is an awesome subject and McGinnis teaches it well. If you're going to take it, take it with him. He's funny too!

Eh, I would have preferred someone who taught it as more of an antitrust class and less of an econ class. But in my time at NU no one else every taught it, so...


Speaking of no one else teaching antitrust... Fischman is listed in the catalog as teaching it in the Spring. Anyone have experience with him in another class to opine on how he might approach antitrust?

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bk1
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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby bk1 » Tue Jul 16, 2013 1:54 pm

bdubs wrote:
Holly Golightly wrote:
hmlee wrote:Antitrust is an awesome subject and McGinnis teaches it well. If you're going to take it, take it with him. He's funny too!

Eh, I would have preferred someone who taught it as more of an antitrust class and less of an econ class. But in my time at NU no one else every taught it, so...


Speaking of no one else teaching antitrust... Fischman is listed in the catalog as teaching it in the Spring. Anyone have experience with him in another class to opine on how he might approach antitrust?

Probably law and econ.

Fabulist
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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Fabulist » Tue Jul 16, 2013 2:06 pm

What's the advantage to the ITA trilogy rather than taking the classes separately, beyond a bonus hour of credit?

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Georgia Avenue
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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Georgia Avenue » Tue Jul 16, 2013 2:50 pm

Fabulist wrote:What's the advantage to the ITA trilogy rather than taking the classes separately, beyond a bonus hour of credit?


The extra credit is the main one. ITA evidence can be helpful since you discuss and solve a lot of problems that show up in the midterm and final trials, so you have a good sense on how to approach them when they come up on objections. ITA ethics is a giant pain in the ass, though. It's not case-based at all, instead, you act out scenarios doing role play in small groups - but they don't count towards your grade. It's pretty ridiculous.

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Agoraphobia
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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Agoraphobia » Tue Jul 16, 2013 2:55 pm

Fabulist wrote:What's the advantage to the ITA trilogy rather than taking the classes separately, beyond a bonus hour of credit?


I took the classes separately, and I really LOVED Judge Castillo. I heard that the class was way more laid back in the spring also. YMMV.

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basilseal
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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby basilseal » Tue Jul 16, 2013 3:09 pm

Georgia Avenue wrote:
Fabulist wrote:What's the advantage to the ITA trilogy rather than taking the classes separately, beyond a bonus hour of credit?


The extra credit is the main one. ITA evidence can be helpful since you discuss and solve a lot of problems that show up in the midterm and final trials, so you have a good sense on how to approach them when they come up on objections. ITA ethics is a giant pain in the ass, though. It's not case-based at all, instead, you act out scenarios doing role play in small groups - but they don't count towards your grade. It's pretty ridiculous.

So is it a pain in the ass re: amount of work or just because it's silly?

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crumpetsandtea
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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby crumpetsandtea » Tue Jul 16, 2013 3:10 pm

I heard that ITA trilogy was more interesting/engaging than taking the classes on their own. (disclaimer, rising 2L)

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homestyle28
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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby homestyle28 » Tue Jul 16, 2013 4:15 pm

I took trial ad after taking evidence the previous spring. For the first half of the course I felt like I had an advantage because I understood basic evidence stuff (relevance, prejudice, etc.), the second half I felt behind b/c Koehler, who I took evidence with, glosses over hearsay and doesn't get into nitty gritty examples and kids in the trilogy could discuss issues directly with a prof. Not sure if it's worth the credit bump, but I would take evidence and trial ad together if I could do it over. Ethics is always a pain in the ass...

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Roll Fizzlebeef
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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Roll Fizzlebeef » Tue Jul 16, 2013 7:39 pm

Thoughts on:

FedJur with Redish
Product Liability with Shapo
Adv. Dispute Res. with Riskin
Appellate Ad. with Provenzano

(I'd like to clerk but I'm not banking on it.)

Also, in terms of OCI - are the appointments with career services re: bidding strategy actually helpful? I'm still doing my research and feel a bit lost at sea.

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rinkrat19
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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby rinkrat19 » Tue Jul 16, 2013 7:42 pm

Roll Fizzlebeef wrote:Thoughts on:

FedJur with Redish
Product Liability with Shapo
Adv. Dispute Res. with Riskin
Appellate Ad. with Provenzano

(I'd like to clerk but I'm not banking on it.)

Also, in terms of OCI - are the appointments with career services re: bidding strategy actually helpful? I'm still doing my research and feel a bit lost at sea.

I had Redish for CivPro and he is a very interesting/engaging lecturer, but a f'ing hard grader. His jokes are very scripted into his lectures and you can tell he's told them the exact same way in the exact same lecture for 30 years. Some people found that annoying, but everyone still laughed because it was still funny.

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Agoraphobia
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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Agoraphobia » Tue Jul 16, 2013 7:45 pm

Roll Fizzlebeef wrote:Thoughts on:

FedJur with Redish
Product Liability with Shapo
Adv. Dispute Res. with Riskin
Appellate Ad. with Provenzano

(I'd like to clerk but I'm not banking on it.)

Also, in terms of OCI - are the appointments with career services re: bidding strategy actually helpful? I'm still doing my research and feel a bit lost at sea.


Redish's FedJur is filled with gunners. If you are one or can do a reasonable approximation, you'll do fine. Realize that you are not being tested on the BLL, but on Redish's personal opinions and philosophy. I can't emphasize this enough. THROW AWAY your hornbook and outlines.

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crumpetsandtea
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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby crumpetsandtea » Tue Jul 16, 2013 7:45 pm

My opinion on Career Services: If you know exactly what you want, then they could be helpful. But if you need general guidance, TLS/older students are a better resource. Ditto if you want the "inside scoop" on a market or firm.

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Flips88
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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Flips88 » Tue Jul 16, 2013 8:12 pm

Roll Fizzlebeef wrote:Thoughts on:

FedJur with Redish
Product Liability with Shapo
Adv. Dispute Res. with Riskin
Appellate Ad. with Provenzano

(I'd like to clerk but I'm not banking on it.)

Also, in terms of OCI - are the appointments with career services re: bidding strategy actually helpful? I'm still doing my research and feel a bit lost at sea.

Shapo's is a pretty easy workload. you have weekly readings that aren't too long. Class is 1 hour of him lecturing, but you don't have to take any notes because there's no exam. The next hour is discussing the readings. You write a two or three draft paper. His deadlines are a bit early in that he wants a paper proposal within the first 2 or 3 weeks of school. And you have a draft due pretty early but you can write 5-10 pages and outline the rest of the paper.

Provenzano's a really great prof so I'd recommend any class she teaches.

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Roll Fizzlebeef
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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Roll Fizzlebeef » Tue Jul 16, 2013 8:16 pm

crumpetsandtea wrote:My opinion on Career Services: If you know exactly what you want, then they could be helpful. But if you need general guidance, TLS/older students are a better resource. Ditto if you want the "inside scoop" on a market or firm.


Hrm. Thanks! And thanks to Rink, Agora, and Flips.

From browsing last year's posts in here about OCI, seems general consensus is to bid higher either A: firms you really want and are inherently popular (i.e. Sidley, K&E, etc) or B: those you do want and that have a wider range of GPA for callbacks, and you can safely bid the more selective ones a little bit downstream. My question is though, how far downstream is too far? That is, if one can approximate such info without considering market/stats.

Or mayhaps I should start a NU OCI Thread? There was none for Class of '14, doesn't seem to be any yet for us.

ETA: Found it. Research fail.

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Flips88
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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Flips88 » Tue Jul 16, 2013 8:19 pm

Roll Fizzlebeef wrote:
crumpetsandtea wrote:My opinion on Career Services: If you know exactly what you want, then they could be helpful. But if you need general guidance, TLS/older students are a better resource. Ditto if you want the "inside scoop" on a market or firm.


Hrm. Thanks! And thanks to Rink, Agora, and Flips.

From browsing last year's posts in here about OCI, seems general consensus is to bid higher either A: firms you really want and are inherently popular (i.e. Sidley, K&E, etc) or B: those you do want and that have a wider range of GPA for callbacks, and you can safely bid the more selective ones a little bit downstream. My question is though, how far downstream is too far? That is, if one can approximate such info without considering market/stats.

Or mayhaps I should start a NU OCI Thread? There was none for Class of '14, doesn't seem to be any yet for us.

ETA: Found it. Research fail.

Here's class of 2015's also: viewtopic.php?f=23&t=210567&p=6937160#p6937160

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Roll Fizzlebeef
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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Roll Fizzlebeef » Tue Jul 16, 2013 8:20 pm

Whelp, I quit.

Also, thanks. Again.




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