Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

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Throttle
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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Throttle » Sat May 11, 2013 9:20 am

Last edited by Throttle on Sat May 11, 2013 9:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

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homestyle28
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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby homestyle28 » Sat May 11, 2013 9:21 am

lgleye wrote:Okay, I get it…..stay away from Hughes, Haddock, McGinnish, & Horwich.

Anyone else? After spending only a year here, I’ve run into 1 or 2 profs who seem like such nice and amiable people but turn out to be (1) terrible lecturers, running off on tangents into God knows where, (2) milld schizophrenic, assigning reading that has absolutely nothing to do with topics on final exams, or (3) is so full of his/her “role as educator” that he/she ends up tearing into exams at grading time.

Gotta avoid those landmines……. So, any additions to the above list?
Also, any relevant info on their married life might help……(previous prof went thru divorce and man, did he rip into us)


Or you could just take the classes that are interesting to you and not worry about all this.

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IAFG
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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby IAFG » Sat May 11, 2013 9:26 am

homestyle28 wrote:
lgleye wrote:Okay, I get it…..stay away from Hughes, Haddock, McGinnish, & Horwich.

Anyone else? After spending only a year here, I’ve run into 1 or 2 profs who seem like such nice and amiable people but turn out to be (1) terrible lecturers, running off on tangents into God knows where, (2) milld schizophrenic, assigning reading that has absolutely nothing to do with topics on final exams, or (3) is so full of his/her “role as educator” that he/she ends up tearing into exams at grading time.

Gotta avoid those landmines……. So, any additions to the above list?
Also, any relevant info on their married life might help……(previous prof went thru divorce and man, did he rip into us)


Or you could just take the classes that are interesting to you and not worry about all this.

Easy for the employed to say.

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homestyle28
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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby homestyle28 » Sat May 11, 2013 10:17 am

IAFG wrote:
homestyle28 wrote:
lgleye wrote:Okay, I get it…..stay away from Hughes, Haddock, McGinnish, & Horwich.

Anyone else? After spending only a year here, I’ve run into 1 or 2 profs who seem like such nice and amiable people but turn out to be (1) terrible lecturers, running off on tangents into God knows where, (2) milld schizophrenic, assigning reading that has absolutely nothing to do with topics on final exams, or (3) is so full of his/her “role as educator” that he/she ends up tearing into exams at grading time.

Gotta avoid those landmines……. So, any additions to the above list?
Also, any relevant info on their married life might help……(previous prof went thru divorce and man, did he rip into us)


Or you could just take the classes that are interesting to you and not worry about all this.

Easy for the employed to say.


I suppose... I'm not saying load up on the gunner courses but a person can go nuts trying to pick softer courses. And I think it's easier to defend a B in fedjur than an A in law and puppies

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IAFG
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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby IAFG » Sat May 11, 2013 10:21 am

homestyle28 wrote:
IAFG wrote:
homestyle28 wrote:
lgleye wrote:Okay, I get it…..stay away from Hughes, Haddock, McGinnish, & Horwich.

Anyone else? After spending only a year here, I’ve run into 1 or 2 profs who seem like such nice and amiable people but turn out to be (1) terrible lecturers, running off on tangents into God knows where, (2) milld schizophrenic, assigning reading that has absolutely nothing to do with topics on final exams, or (3) is so full of his/her “role as educator” that he/she ends up tearing into exams at grading time.

Gotta avoid those landmines……. So, any additions to the above list?
Also, any relevant info on their married life might help……(previous prof went thru divorce and man, did he rip into us)


Or you could just take the classes that are interesting to you and not worry about all this.

Easy for the employed to say.


I suppose... I'm not saying load up on the gunner courses but a person can go nuts trying to pick softer courses. And I think it's easier to defend a B in fedjur than an A in law and puppies

I don't think any of my easy A classes sounded as fluffy as they are, so it's really Fed Jur vs Real Estate Law

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homestyle28
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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby homestyle28 » Sat May 11, 2013 10:27 am

IAFG wrote:
homestyle28 wrote:
IAFG wrote:
homestyle28 wrote:
I suppose... I'm not saying load up on the gunner courses but a person can go nuts trying to pick softer courses. And I think it's easier to defend a B in fedjur than an A in law and puppies

I don't think any of my easy A classes sounded as fluffy as they are, so it's really Fed Jur vs Real Estate Law

Well now I've lost all respect for you now that I know you're just a realtor :D

09042014
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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby 09042014 » Sat May 11, 2013 3:29 pm

IAFG wrote:
homestyle28 wrote:
IAFG wrote:
homestyle28 wrote:
Or you could just take the classes that are interesting to you and not worry about all this.

Easy for the employed to say.


I suppose... I'm not saying load up on the gunner courses but a person can go nuts trying to pick softer courses. And I think it's easier to defend a B in fedjur than an A in law and puppies

I don't think any of my easy A classes sounded as fluffy as they are, so it's really Fed Jur vs Real Estate Law


Or even something like Admin with Burns who will grade easy v. Admin with Speta who won't be able to because it's curved. Or Bankruptcy with Francis vs. whoever else teaches it.

I've only got three classes that look noticeably like bullshit. Islamic Law -- where I can either "do you even Islamic Finance Bro?" or pull the exotic wife card. Law of War. And admiralty law.

And trust me, I mostly picked things that were easy.

You do have to take things that actually interest you / you need. But you can balance that.

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homestyle28
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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby homestyle28 » Sat May 11, 2013 3:51 pm

Desert Fox wrote:or pull the exotic wife card.


Wife is Italian, can I still pull this?

09042014
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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby 09042014 » Sat May 11, 2013 3:53 pm

homestyle28 wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:or pull the exotic wife card.


Wife is Italian, can I still pull this?


Northern or Southern?

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homestyle28
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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby homestyle28 » Sat May 11, 2013 4:06 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
homestyle28 wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:or pull the exotic wife card.


Wife is Italian, can I still pull this?


Northern or Southern?


Wait, are you asking about body hair? In that case, she's from brazil...heyooo!

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crumpetsandtea
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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby crumpetsandtea » Sat May 11, 2013 4:28 pm

Woooaaahhh TMI.

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Holly Golightly
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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Holly Golightly » Sat May 11, 2013 5:23 pm

Yeah, I took a nice cross-section of harder and easier classes. I mostly based it on what I was interested in, plus most of the core clerkship classes. Like DF said, if you're concerned about the curve, you even can take a lot of classes like Admin or Con Crim Pro uncurved if you take them with a less popular professor. But I dunno, for the last 3 semesters I just based my schedule on what I wanted to take (mixed in with like 2 or 3 classes that I felt like I "should" take), and I enjoyed school a lot more and my grades actually went up.

Also, to those of you dissing puppy law -- Animal Law is one of the best classes I took at Northwestern. :P

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lgleye
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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby lgleye » Sat May 11, 2013 7:56 pm

O
Last edited by lgleye on Wed Sep 18, 2013 10:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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feralinfant
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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby feralinfant » Sun May 12, 2013 6:40 pm

so i was planning on living farther away from school but a potential roommate situation has fallen through and i'm thinking that it might just be easier to apply , from across the country for a place at say, dearborn, than it might be to ferret through a bunch of craiglist stuff.

My question is this...I was peaking through the rental app and it wants all this landlord info. This might seem crazy but I seriously haven't had contact with a landlord in almost a year. I have had to move an awful lot for work so it's been a lot of month-to-month sublets where i'm writing checks to either fellow or former tenants. Any thoughts on how much this is going to screw me w/r/t a building like dearborn?

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Georgia Avenue
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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Georgia Avenue » Sun May 12, 2013 9:48 pm

feralinfant wrote:so i was planning on living farther away from school but a potential roommate situation has fallen through and i'm thinking that it might just be easier to apply , from across the country for a place at say, dearborn, than it might be to ferret through a bunch of craiglist stuff.

My question is this...I was peaking through the rental app and it wants all this landlord info. This might seem crazy but I seriously haven't had contact with a landlord in almost a year. I have had to move an awful lot for work so it's been a lot of month-to-month sublets where i'm writing checks to either fellow or former tenants. Any thoughts on how much this is going to screw me w/r/t a building like dearborn?


Nobody's going to care.

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hmlee
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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby hmlee » Mon May 13, 2013 12:46 pm

feralinfant wrote:so i was planning on living farther away from school but a potential roommate situation has fallen through and i'm thinking that it might just be easier to apply , from across the country for a place at say, dearborn, than it might be to ferret through a bunch of craiglist stuff.

My question is this...I was peaking through the rental app and it wants all this landlord info. This might seem crazy but I seriously haven't had contact with a landlord in almost a year. I have had to move an awful lot for work so it's been a lot of month-to-month sublets where i'm writing checks to either fellow or former tenants. Any thoughts on how much this is going to screw me w/r/t a building like dearborn?


If you explain that, they won't care. As long as you have the money to rent the place.

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lgleye
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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby lgleye » Mon May 13, 2013 4:27 pm

[
Last edited by lgleye on Wed Sep 18, 2013 10:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Georgia Avenue
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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Georgia Avenue » Mon May 13, 2013 5:40 pm

lgleye wrote:Hey, those guys are right.... it won't matter. prior to coming here, I was a real estate manager for a firm in Manhattan. Filling out the paperwork for the Streeter, I was really surprised at how the process was a breeze compared to NYC (just ante up the money and you're in..... no security required).
Turns out the real reason is that Chitown landlords are pretty sure you'll pay.....otherwise they could trash your credit and cause huge headaches when you seek admission to the Bar.


It's probably more that they've rented to grad students before and know that the federal government is very reliable about paying their tenants.

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bananasplit19
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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby bananasplit19 » Mon May 13, 2013 6:01 pm

Just got in last week off the hold list, and trying to figure out how I'd defray sticker cost if I attended and didn't go BigLaw. Can someone explain NU LRAP and IBR to me like I'm five years old? There's a calculator on the website but it's just confusing me more :|

From what I gather, IBR makes sure your minimum monthly debt payments don't go overboard by capping it at 10-15% or so of your income. This is only a stopgap, of course, because that debt isn't going anywhere, and depending on how much debt you have and how much money you make, those capped payments you make might not even cover the interest, much less the actual debt. So far, I think I'm on track. So then there's LRAP (assuming you get an eligible job), and this is where I get lost. Help!

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hmlee
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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby hmlee » Mon May 13, 2013 6:55 pm

bananasplit19 wrote:Just got in last week off the hold list, and trying to figure out how I'd defray sticker cost if I attended and didn't go BigLaw. Can someone explain NU LRAP and IBR to me like I'm five years old? There's a calculator on the website but it's just confusing me more :|

From what I gather, IBR makes sure your minimum monthly debt payments don't go overboard by capping it at 10-15% or so of your income. This is only a stopgap, of course, because that debt isn't going anywhere, and depending on how much debt you have and how much money you make, those capped payments you make might not even cover the interest, much less the actual debt. So far, I think I'm on track. So then there's LRAP (assuming you get an eligible job), and this is where I get lost. Help!


So, IBR is a federal program that applies to federal loans and can be started/stopped/re-started throughout your life. Payments are calculated based only on your debt level, not your income. Often they are much less than 10% - I think you have to earn like $100,000+ to have payments equal to more than 10% of your annual income (in a household of only one person). After making 25 years of qualifying payments (which also includes periods of time when you are in an economic hardship deferment or when your monthly payment is 0 -- which happens when you earn less than 150% of the federal poverty limit), the remaining balance on your loan is forgiven. Including whatever interest was added to it over the life of the loan. However, as the law currently stands, you'll have to pay taxes on the forgiven amount. That could be a lot of money. Frankly, though, I would be shocked if the law is the same in 25 years, just given the enormity of the student debt burden in this country.

LRAP is a Northwestern specific program. It pays some or all of your loan payments (calculated both on your debt level and your income) as long as you are working an eligible job and that job is your first "real" job out of law school. So you can't go do BigLaw, jump to public interest, and qualify for LRAP -- but you could do that and still qualify for IBR.

There's also the public service loan forgiveness program, which forgives debt for eligible borrowers after 10 years of payments.

So, hypothetical situations:

Go to NU (I'm using a loan debt of $220,000 as a hypo), graduate, get a public interest job where you make shit money (let's say $40,000). Put your loans into IBR. The IBR calculator sets your monthly payment as 8% of your income. So, you're responsible for $280/mo or thereabouts. You are however, still getting lots of interest charged to you -- about $1200/mo.

Because you are working a public interest job, and did so right out of law school, Northwestern will pay all of your IBR payment per year and 75% of the accruing interest. (The amount of interest they pay is what changes based on your income/debt level). You end up being responsible for something like $3,000/yr IF you want no interest to accrue on your loans.

Assuming you do this for 10 years (120 payments), your remaining debt is forgiven through the federal public interest loan forgiveness program.

Time for loan balance $0 = ~10 years

Hypo 2:

Go to NU (same debt level), graduate, work BigLaw (or other non-PI job) for 4 years, then go to public interest. In this scenario, you pay down your loans for the first couple of years, and then turn on IBR once you switch to public interest. However, LRAP is not available to you.

Time for loan balance $0 = Somewhere between 4 and 14 years

Hypo 3:

Go to NU, graduate, work BigLaw until your debt is gone. Simple, if grueling.

Time for loan balance $0 = However many years it takes you, which depends on how much of your salary you throw at it. Could be anywhere from 3-7 years.

Hypo 4:

Go to NU, graduate, work private job that doesn't pay as much as BigLaw. You turn on IBR to make reasonable payments, possibly paying accruing interest if you can afford it, but you don't get LRAP because you aren't in public interest.

Time for loan balance $0 = Maximum of 25 years. Maybe less, depending on how you tackle it.

*the time for loan balance $0 assuming an uninterrupted run of payments, and doesn't take into account something like losing your job for a portion of time.

Hope that helps.
Last edited by hmlee on Mon May 13, 2013 7:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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hmlee
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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby hmlee » Mon May 13, 2013 6:59 pm

I would also add that going to NU at sticker is not necessarily a bad idea. It really depends on where else you got in and whether you got money from a comparable school.

I graduated from Northwestern last year, and I paid sticker during my time there. I also have a little bit of undergraduate debt from my years at U Chicago. I don't work public interest, and I make a salary that is livable but not near BigLaw proportions. I'm starting IBR this summer and am not terribly concerned about my debt. This is partly because I have a shot at a decent payout if the startup that I work for goes big, but also because I know that IBR is completely reasonable and I highly doubt the tax code will be the same as it is now in 25 years (if it even takes me that long to pay it).

No school can guarantee you a job, even three years from now when we have no idea what the market will look like. Still, some schools are certainly better than others. Debt load and school ranking should be considerations, but it's a balancing act.

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bananasplit19
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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby bananasplit19 » Mon May 13, 2013 7:16 pm

hmlee wrote:I would also add that going to NU at sticker is not necessarily a bad idea. It really depends on where else you got in and whether you got money from a comparable school.

I graduated from Northwestern last year, and I paid sticker during my time there. I also have a little bit of undergraduate debt from my years at U Chicago. I don't work public interest, and I make a salary that is livable but not near BigLaw proportions. I'm starting IBR this summer and am not terribly concerned about my debt. This is partly because I have a shot at a decent payout if the startup that I work for goes big, but also because I know that IBR is completely reasonable and I highly doubt the tax code will be the same as it is now in 25 years (if it even takes me that long to pay it).

No school can guarantee you a job, even three years from now when we have no idea what the market will look like. Still, some schools are certainly better than others. Debt load and school ranking should be considerations, but it's a balancing act.

You, sir/madam, are a gentle(wo)man and a scholar. That was an extremely well-written walkthrough. Thank you for clearing it up so concisely!

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Flips88
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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Flips88 » Mon May 13, 2013 7:23 pm

Georgia Avenue wrote:
lgleye wrote:Hey, those guys are right.... it won't matter. prior to coming here, I was a real estate manager for a firm in Manhattan. Filling out the paperwork for the Streeter, I was really surprised at how the process was a breeze compared to NYC (just ante up the money and you're in..... no security required).
Turns out the real reason is that Chitown landlords are pretty sure you'll pay.....otherwise they could trash your credit and cause huge headaches when you seek admission to the Bar.


It's probably more that they've rented to grad students before and know that the federal government is very reliable about paying their tenants.

Yeah I think it's mostly that they know you're good for the money. I had jack shit money when securing my 1L apartment but they accepted the FAFSA letter saying my loans were approved. Also, IIRC Chicago has some of the strongest tenant rights laws in the country.

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hmlee
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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby hmlee » Mon May 13, 2013 7:59 pm

bananasplit19 wrote:
hmlee wrote:I would also add that going to NU at sticker is not necessarily a bad idea. It really depends on where else you got in and whether you got money from a comparable school.

I graduated from Northwestern last year, and I paid sticker during my time there. I also have a little bit of undergraduate debt from my years at U Chicago. I don't work public interest, and I make a salary that is livable but not near BigLaw proportions. I'm starting IBR this summer and am not terribly concerned about my debt. This is partly because I have a shot at a decent payout if the startup that I work for goes big, but also because I know that IBR is completely reasonable and I highly doubt the tax code will be the same as it is now in 25 years (if it even takes me that long to pay it).

No school can guarantee you a job, even three years from now when we have no idea what the market will look like. Still, some schools are certainly better than others. Debt load and school ranking should be considerations, but it's a balancing act.

You, sir/madam, are a gentle(wo)man and a scholar. That was an extremely well-written walkthrough. Thank you for clearing it up so concisely!


Happy to help! Feel free to shoot me a PM if you have any more questions about post-school life.

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untar614
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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby untar614 » Tue May 14, 2013 8:04 am

hmlee wrote:I would also add that going to NU at sticker is not necessarily a bad idea. It really depends on where else you got in and whether you got money from a comparable school.

I graduated from Northwestern last year, and I paid sticker during my time there. I also have a little bit of undergraduate debt from my years at U Chicago. I don't work public interest, and I make a salary that is livable but not near BigLaw proportions. I'm starting IBR this summer and am not terribly concerned about my debt. This is partly because I have a shot at a decent payout if the startup that I work for goes big, but also because I know that IBR is completely reasonable and I highly doubt the tax code will be the same as it is now in 25 years (if it even takes me that long to pay it).

No school can guarantee you a job, even three years from now when we have no idea what the market will look like. Still, some schools are certainly better than others. Debt load and school ranking should be considerations, but it's a balancing act.

Are you really paying off your debt on IBR? I thought that at sticker, the debt accrued would result in nearly 25k/year just in interest.




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