Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

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homestyle28
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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby homestyle28 » Mon Mar 11, 2013 12:47 pm

Icculus wrote:It also won't help you get PI, will be essentially useless if you strike out (as a friend of mine found out), and in general is there mainly to organize OCI on a macro level (and they even can screw that up; see the great K&E interview debacle of 2013).


On the flip-side, they can be helpful for resume reviews and general conversations about your bidlist, but you need to be proactive with them. They do know things about firms, esp in Chicago, so I'd say worth the little time it takes to include them in your plan, but I wouldn't rely on them exclusively. FWIW when I was in fear of striking out, they Dave was especially helpful in culling a list of firms in Chicago to mass-mail.

Also, it's too early to start really worrying, once your last final is submitted, then get started on this.

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Georgia Avenue
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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Georgia Avenue » Mon Mar 11, 2013 12:56 pm

Let's not forget that OCS also didn't bother finding a replacement for Bill until after OCI. I saw Dave during OCI and I was pretty shocked how much better he was than the part-time fill-in for Bill.

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Icculus
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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Icculus » Mon Mar 11, 2013 12:58 pm

Georgia Avenue wrote:Let's not forget that OCS also didn't bother finding a replacement for Bill until after OCI. I saw Dave during OCI and I was pretty shocked how much better he was than the part-time fill-in for Bill.


This infuriated me.

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homestyle28
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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby homestyle28 » Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:06 pm

Icculus wrote:
Georgia Avenue wrote:Let's not forget that OCS also didn't bother finding a replacement for Bill until after OCI. I saw Dave during OCI and I was pretty shocked how much better he was than the part-time fill-in for Bill.


This infuriated me.


Not sure the blame for that one falls on OCS per se, probably a decision higher up the chain, right?

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Georgia Avenue
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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Georgia Avenue » Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:15 pm

Sure, but at some point someone in the administration decided it would be cool to not fill that spot with a legit career counselor in time for OCI. It's not like Bill left a week before OCI started.

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bk1
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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby bk1 » Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:29 pm

Desert Fox wrote:I think a midwestern bro going all in on NYC with median grades would probably be a hard sell.

Fair point. I meant more that my CSO seemed very deferential to me (which is good but you don't really want too much of that when the hard truth would be more helpful) and not necessarily willing to tell people that their wants may be unrealistic. Then again, I had the replacement so maybe other CSOs are better. If I were a CSO I would be getting on the ass of everyone I was assigned and telling them that they should start researching firms in the summer and then got on them to be sending out mass mail in late July/early August. I would also be pressuring them to attend as many career fairs as they could for any place they would be okay with living in.

homestyle28 wrote:Also, it's too early to start really worrying, once your last final is submitted, then get started on this.

But this should be the takeaway to current 1Ls.

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Icculus
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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Icculus » Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:34 pm

homestyle28 wrote:
Also, it's too early to start really worrying, once your last final is submitted, you finish the write on, and you enjoy yourself a bit then get started on this.


Edit: I am an idiot.
Last edited by Icculus on Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Blumpbeef
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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Blumpbeef » Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:36 pm

Icculus wrote:
homestyle28 wrote:
Also, it's too early to start really worrying, once your last final is submitted, you finish the write on, and start your summer job then get started on this.

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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby 09042014 » Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:37 pm

Part of the problem with career services is it cannot give everyone the same advice or there would be a stampede of people fighting in the trenches for a small number of jobs. If career services told everyone below 3.4 to bid all on NYC, they'd each get like 4 interviews. At that point bidding NYC wouldn't be the smart thing anymore.

They should push mass mailing and outside career fairs more, but they did push it somewhat my year.

I know Bill used to piss some students off by giving them some tough love advice, but in each case those people ignored it anyway.

Each career service person has like 300 people to watch out for. You just gotta temper your expectations. Your job search is mostly your own responsibility.

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Blumpbeef
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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Blumpbeef » Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:40 pm

Your job search is mostly your own responsibility.


Maybe it would help if they didn't start the year off with a mandatory meeting going "we are not like your undergraduate CS office. We will help you find jobs. We'll give you all the support you need".

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Icculus
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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Icculus » Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:41 pm

Desert Fox wrote:Part of the problem with career services is it cannot give everyone the same advice or there would be a stampede of people fighting in the trenches for a small number of jobs. If career services told everyone below 3.4 to bid all on NYC, they'd each get like 4 interviews. At that point bidding NYC wouldn't be the smart thing anymore.

They should push mass mailing and outside career fairs more, but they did push it somewhat my year.

I know Bill used to piss some students off by giving them some tough love advice, but in each case those people ignored it anyway.

Each career service person has like 300 people to watch out for. You just gotta temper your expectations. Your job search is mostly your own responsibility.


I agree with this, but at the same time I know people who are looking for PI, or smaller/midsize firms, and CSO is basically useless for this.

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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby bjsesq » Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:43 pm

Icculus wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:Part of the problem with career services is it cannot give everyone the same advice or there would be a stampede of people fighting in the trenches for a small number of jobs. If career services told everyone below 3.4 to bid all on NYC, they'd each get like 4 interviews. At that point bidding NYC wouldn't be the smart thing anymore.

They should push mass mailing and outside career fairs more, but they did push it somewhat my year.

I know Bill used to piss some students off by giving them some tough love advice, but in each case those people ignored it anyway.

Each career service person has like 300 people to watch out for. You just gotta temper your expectations. Your job search is mostly your own responsibility.


I agree with this, but at the same time I know people who are looking for PI, or smaller/midsize firms, and CSO is basically useless for this.


CSO is basically useless for a ton of shit. But in their defense: what exactly can they say to unemployed 3L's? They have been shit about leads, but past giving those, there isn't much they can do. We're toxic already.

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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby 09042014 » Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:46 pm

Blumpbeef wrote:
Your job search is mostly your own responsibility.


Maybe it would help if they didn't start the year off with a mandatory meeting going "we are not like your undergraduate CS office. We will help you find jobs. We'll give you all the support you need".


I don't want to white knight the career services people. They've never told me anything I didn't know before. They pretty much suck.

I just want the 1L's to internalize the fact that they are on their own.

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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby bk1 » Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:50 pm

Desert Fox wrote:I just want the 1L's to internalize the fact that they are on their own.

Agreed. I wish they were more useful but people need to realize they are not.

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homestyle28
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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby homestyle28 » Mon Mar 11, 2013 2:07 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
Blumpbeef wrote:
Your job search is mostly your own responsibility.


Maybe it would help if they didn't start the year off with a mandatory meeting going "we are not like your undergraduate CS office. We will help you find jobs. We'll give you all the support you need".


I don't want to white knight the career services people. They've never told me anything I didn't know before. They pretty much suck.

I just want the 1L's to internalize the fact that they are on their own.


Image

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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby rinkrat19 » Mon Mar 11, 2013 2:18 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
Blumpbeef wrote:
Your job search is mostly your own responsibility.


Maybe it would help if they didn't start the year off with a mandatory meeting going "we are not like your undergraduate CS office. We will help you find jobs. We'll give you all the support you need".


I don't want to white knight the career services people. They've never told me anything I didn't know before. They pretty much suck.

I just want the 1L's to internalize the fact that they are on their own.

I'm targeting Portland. I knew I'd be on my own all along. I just--unfortunately--believed everyone (including cynical TLSers) when they said "it's easy to get something unpaid for 1L summer, even in a random market!" and it's actually not.

09042014
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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby 09042014 » Mon Mar 11, 2013 2:28 pm

It'll work out, it's still early for 1L summer.

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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Blumpbeef » Mon Mar 11, 2013 2:45 pm

Desert Fox wrote:It'll work out, it's still early for 1L summer.


Where exactly are these jobs everyone keeps talking about?

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Icculus
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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Icculus » Mon Mar 11, 2013 2:48 pm

Blumpbeef wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:It'll work out, it's still early for 1L summer.


Where exactly are these jobs everyone keeps talking about?


I will say last year I worked for a prof and took classes. Best decision ever. I ended up with 8 credits (2 classes and I worked for credit, not pay), enjoyed the summer, and it was fine for interviews. Plus now I have some more leeway in scheduling. It is something to consider. To add, this was a decision I made only after I missed the externship boat. I have several friends who did the same thing and we all are happy with the way it worked out.

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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Blumpbeef » Mon Mar 11, 2013 2:50 pm

Icculus wrote:
Blumpbeef wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:It'll work out, it's still early for 1L summer.


Where exactly are these jobs everyone keeps talking about?


I will say last year I worked for a prof and took classes. Best decision ever. I ended up with 8 credits (2 classes and I worked for credit, not pay), enjoyed the summer, and it was fine for interviews. Plus now I have some more leeway in scheduling. It is something to consider. To add, this was a decision I made only after I missed the externship boat. I have several friends who did the same thing and we all are happy with the way it worked out.


Unlike 90% of my class, I've never had a real job before so I don't think working for a prof is going to look good.

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Icculus
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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Icculus » Mon Mar 11, 2013 2:54 pm

Blumpbeef wrote:
Icculus wrote:
Blumpbeef wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:It'll work out, it's still early for 1L summer.


Where exactly are these jobs everyone keeps talking about?


I will say last year I worked for a prof and took classes. Best decision ever. I ended up with 8 credits (2 classes and I worked for credit, not pay), enjoyed the summer, and it was fine for interviews. Plus now I have some more leeway in scheduling. It is something to consider. To add, this was a decision I made only after I missed the externship boat. I have several friends who did the same thing and we all are happy with the way it worked out.


Unlike 90% of my class, I've never had a real job before so I don't think working for a prof is going to look good.


It will if you can spin it the right way. The idea is to get legal experience and many times working for a prof you are going to get a ton of research experience. You just want to make sure you have a narrative as to how it helped you develop as a law student/researcher and what you learned from it. Or aim for one of the paid clinic summer positions, those also count. It's not about getting work experience it's about getting legal work experience.

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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby rinkrat19 » Mon Mar 11, 2013 2:58 pm

Icculus wrote:
Blumpbeef wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:It'll work out, it's still early for 1L summer.


Where exactly are these jobs everyone keeps talking about?


I will say last year I worked for a prof and took classes. Best decision ever. I ended up with 8 credits (2 classes and I worked for credit, not pay), enjoyed the summer, and it was fine for interviews. Plus now I have some more leeway in scheduling. It is something to consider. To add, this was a decision I made only after I missed the externship boat. I have several friends who did the same thing and we all are happy with the way it worked out.
Blech.

If I end up getting stuck in sweltering Chicago, I do not want to be stuck on campus. I also cannot, off the top of my head, think of anything more awkward and weird than working one-on-one for some random professor.

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Georgia Avenue
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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Georgia Avenue » Mon Mar 11, 2013 3:00 pm

Get a clinic gig. They're absolutely fine and won't at all count against you in OCI. Plus Chicago kicks ass in the summer, give it a chance.

If you end up doing a PI job, take the PI practicum on the side. 4 credits of guaranteed A.

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homestyle28
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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby homestyle28 » Mon Mar 11, 2013 3:16 pm

Georgia Avenue wrote:Get a clinic gig. They're absolutely fine and won't at all count against you in OCI. Plus Chicago kicks ass in the summer, give it a chance.

If you end up doing a PI job, take the PI practicum on the side. 4 credits of guaranteed A.


Even if you don't get one of the work/study gigs you can still take clinic for credit...you'll actually probably get better experience there than at a lot of PI gigs. If I could go back I would do Clinic + some classes, lots of A credit, lots of hours and lots of flexibility. IF any employers ask about your summer (not all do) they'll ask bland questions like "what did you like about it?" you can answer that for just about any experience.

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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby rinkrat19 » Mon Mar 11, 2013 3:18 pm

homestyle28 wrote:
Georgia Avenue wrote:Get a clinic gig. They're absolutely fine and won't at all count against you in OCI. Plus Chicago kicks ass in the summer, give it a chance.

If you end up doing a PI job, take the PI practicum on the side. 4 credits of guaranteed A.


Even if you don't get one of the work/study gigs you can still take clinic for credit...you'll actually probably get better experience there than at a lot of PI gigs. If I could go back I would do Clinic + some classes, lots of A credit, lots of hours and lots of flexibility. IF any employers ask about your summer (not all do) they'll ask bland questions like "what did you like about it?" you can answer that for just about any experience.

How does one even try for a clinic? I have zero information on it besides my 30-second spiel taken straight from the viewbook that I give as we ride the elevator to the 8th floor on a campus tour. And then I point out the view and then we leave.




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