Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
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oaken
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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby oaken » Wed Feb 06, 2013 10:21 pm

rinkrat19 wrote:
Icculus wrote:
Flips88 wrote:
cookiejar1 wrote:
I'm glad that people really enjoyed them. This sounds like the kind of thing that I would get almost obnoxiously excited about. It says on the website that the program is pretty much student-run. How hard is it to volunteer to become a team leader? I've done a lot of non-profit work abroad so if I did go to NU I'd be all over this.

I don't think it's terribly difficult. You just have to find a professor to work with you. And if you're one of the leaders you get 5 credits for ITP.


Really you need to find 3 people to run it with you. There is actually a list of profs who are willing to go. Finding a prof is pretty easy since they get a free trip. I'm in the clas now and I can say we are all super excited and it looks to be a good time. I think I may try and run one next year. Though the price is a bit steep, but hey, it's like Monopoly money, right?
I really want to do it, maybe 3L year. I don't see how I could leave my cat (older and takes daily medications) for that long, so it may hinge on whether she lives another 2 years. :?


:(

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CardozoLaw09
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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby CardozoLaw09 » Thu Feb 07, 2013 7:12 pm

Can you still be a competitive applicant at Northwestern if you're a splitter but have almost no work experience? For argument's sake let's say the numbers are 3.0 and 170+

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Blumpbeef
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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Blumpbeef » Thu Feb 07, 2013 7:16 pm

CardozoLaw09 wrote:Can you still be a competitive applicant at Northwestern if you're a splitter but have almost no work experience? For argument's sake let's say the numbers are 3.0 and 170+


Yes, you can get in, although its more of a "stick around on the waitlist until June" sort of scenario.

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fruitoftheloom
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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby fruitoftheloom » Tue Feb 12, 2013 11:14 pm

Is there a list of employers who come to OCI?

Gracias!!

bdubs
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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby bdubs » Tue Feb 12, 2013 11:36 pm

fruitoftheloom wrote:Is there a list of employers who come to OCI?

Gracias!!


It's really long (over 100 firms, more than 150 offices). Are you looking for something in particular?

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fruitoftheloom
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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby fruitoftheloom » Tue Feb 12, 2013 11:44 pm

bdubs wrote:
fruitoftheloom wrote:Is there a list of employers who come to OCI?

Gracias!!


It's really long (over 100 firms, more than 150 offices). Are you looking for something in particular?


As much as TLS shits on it, I'm interested in some of the larger insurance coverage / bad faith firms and subrogation firms. For example, Cozen O'Connor, Selman Breitman LP.. I know there are more out there.

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bk1
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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby bk1 » Tue Feb 12, 2013 11:58 pm

Do a NALP search. It might be a bit out of date but it'll give you a decent idea.

bobloblawstudent
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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby bobloblawstudent » Wed Feb 13, 2013 2:34 am

how does northwestern stack up when it comes to employment? specifically at big firms?
NU seems to pride itself on the fact that a good chunk of the graduates go on to work at legit firms with $160,000 salaries. i've heard from a handful of people that these stats are misleading and i'm looking for some honest advice. as a prospective NU 1L, is it worth it?

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bk1
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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby bk1 » Wed Feb 13, 2013 2:40 am

bobloblawstudent wrote:how does northwestern stack up when it comes to employment? specifically at big firms?
NU seems to pride itself on the fact that a good chunk of the graduates go on to work at legit firms with $160,000 salaries. i've heard from a handful of people that these stats are misleading and i'm looking for some honest advice. as a prospective NU 1L, is it worth it?

There is no simple answer to this question.

Northwestern is about as good as any other lower T14 when it comes to biglaw placement. We're especially strong for Chicago, though overall we are behind the top 6 schools (maybe 7 including Penn). We're also likely weaker than other lower T14s in their respective regions (Berkeley in CA, Duke in the South, etc). I'd say that at least half of NU's class (up to around 2/3) either get biglaw or could have gotten biglaw. Whether that is worth whatever price you have to pay for NU (the total CoA minus scholarships) depends on you. Some people think that a 50%+ shot at a 160k job is worth the around 250k sticker price debt here. Others don't. Even if it is worth it (and it might not be), there is still quite a ton of risk. Around 1/3 of NU grads will end up with bad outcomes (either not getting a job as a lawyer or working at a small firm making around 50k) and those bad outcomes become absolutely awful outcomes if you are saddled with 250k+ debt.

Bumi
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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Bumi » Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:04 am

bk1 wrote:Around 1/3 of NU grads will end up with bad outcomes (either not getting a job as a lawyer or working at a small firm making around 50k)


Do you have a source for this? I've never seen any stat that supports the conclusion that a third of the class gets paid 50k or can't get a law job.

Here it says that 81.9% of the class of 2011 had bar passage required jobs. For your stat to be true, 16% of the class (46 people or so) had 50k/year jobs in tiny firms. But of the people who went to firms, all but 45 went to firms of 250 lawyers or more, and you'll never convince me that nobody in the entire class of 2011 went to a boutique paying market.

Hell, the page right there says the people at firms over 50, which is most of the 45, were making decent wages. Plus I don't believe that everyone who graduated from Northwestern and has a non-law job wanted a law job.

So either your stat is wrong, or the school is lying, and as much as everyone around here loves to believe conspiracy theories about the school, I have a hard time believing they'd lie that much.

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bk1
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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby bk1 » Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:44 am

Bumi wrote:Do you have a source for this?


I was going off my very hazy memory of this. So it's more like 1/4 rather than 1/3 which is why I hedged with "around."

You're also being misled by NU's representation of the data. That does say 81.9%, but they're not factoring out the BPR jobs that are either short term or part time. You take those out and you're at an even lower 77% are getting LT/FT/BPR jobs. Rayiner massages the data a little bit because it does include JD/MBAs and so he doesn't fully discount the non-BPR jobs as you generally might in most analyses of law school employment outcomes.

M458
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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby M458 » Wed Feb 13, 2013 4:36 pm

That link where Northwestern breaks down the career statistics actually even breaks down the # of people making a certain salary. They then tell you the percentage based off employed people. If you take it as worst-case scenario and assume anyone that didn't report a salary is making less than $40k, here's how it breaks down:

For Class of 2011
160k - 43.9%
140-160k - 6.62%
120-139k - 4.53%
100-119k - 4.53%
(So making 100k or more is 59.58% of the class)
80-99k - 1.74%
60-79k - 10.10%
(So making 60k or more is 71.43% of the class)

For Class of 2010
160k - 46.67%
140-160k - 3.51%
120-139k - 3.51%
100-119k - 3.51%
(So making 100k or more is 57.19% of the class)
80-99k - 1.40%
60-79k - 9.47%
(So making 60k or more is 68.07% of the class)

Hopefully numbers are better for Class of 2012 as well.

splitmuch
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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby splitmuch » Wed Feb 13, 2013 5:02 pm

M458 wrote:That link where Northwestern breaks down the career statistics actually even breaks down the # of people making a certain salary. They then tell you the percentage based off employed people. If you take it as worst-case scenario and assume anyone that didn't report a salary is making less than $40k, here's how it breaks down:

For Class of 2011
160k - 43.9%
140-160k - 6.62%
120-139k - 4.53%
100-119k - 4.53%
(So making 100k or more is 59.58% of the class)
80-99k - 1.74%
60-79k - 10.10%
(So making 60k or more is 71.43% of the class)

For Class of 2010
160k - 46.67%
140-160k - 3.51%
120-139k - 3.51%
100-119k - 3.51%
(So making 100k or more is 57.19% of the class)
80-99k - 1.40%
60-79k - 9.47%
(So making 60k or more is 68.07% of the class)

Hopefully numbers are better for Class of 2012 as well.


Dont forget the 8 percent of people with AIII clerkships, which I think pay around mid 50s, and thus aren't in those stats, but are a "good outcome"

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franklyscarlet
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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby franklyscarlet » Wed Feb 13, 2013 5:04 pm

on a decidedly less serious note- what's the level of dress for barrister's? cocktail? evening dress?

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bk1
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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby bk1 » Wed Feb 13, 2013 6:28 pm

franklyscarlet wrote:on a decidedly less serious note- what's the level of dress for barrister's? cocktail? evening dress?

Whatever you own that is both vomit proof and resistant to glass shards. Ideally it should also be able to absorb a punch or two if necessary.

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franklyscarlet
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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby franklyscarlet » Wed Feb 13, 2013 6:28 pm

bk1 wrote:
franklyscarlet wrote:on a decidedly less serious note- what's the level of dress for barrister's? cocktail? evening dress?

Whatever you own that is both vomit proof and resistant to glass shards. Ideally it should also be able to absorb a punch or two if necessary.


so we're talking batman costume here.

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Icculus
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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Icculus » Wed Feb 13, 2013 6:46 pm

franklyscarlet wrote:
bk1 wrote:
franklyscarlet wrote:on a decidedly less serious note- what's the level of dress for barrister's? cocktail? evening dress?

Whatever you own that is both vomit proof and resistant to glass shards. Ideally it should also be able to absorb a punch or two if necessary.


so we're talking batman costume here.


This is my favorite exchange in this thread. And remember, it's all fun and games until ate set three people go home in ambulances.

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Flips88
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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Flips88 » Wed Feb 13, 2013 7:29 pm

Icculus wrote:This is my favorite exchange in this thread. And remember, it's all fun and games until ate set three people go home in ambulances.

Don't forget handcuffs.

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bjsesq
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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby bjsesq » Wed Feb 13, 2013 7:31 pm

Icculus wrote:
franklyscarlet wrote:
bk1 wrote:
franklyscarlet wrote:on a decidedly less serious note- what's the level of dress for barrister's? cocktail? evening dress?

Whatever you own that is both vomit proof and resistant to glass shards. Ideally it should also be able to absorb a punch or two if necessary.


so we're talking batman costume here.


This is my favorite exchange in this thread. And remember, it's all fun and games until ate set three people go home in ambulances.


Outfit should only absorb punches if you are a female. Make sure it is durable, the school won't help you out much.

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franklyscarlet
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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby franklyscarlet » Wed Feb 13, 2013 8:54 pm

You guys are terrible at fashion advice, but I still want to drink with you until I pass out on something expensive.

09042014
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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby 09042014 » Wed Feb 13, 2013 9:06 pm

bk1 wrote:
Bumi wrote:Do you have a source for this?


I was going off my very hazy memory of this. So it's more like 1/4 rather than 1/3 which is why I hedged with "around."

You're also being misled by NU's representation of the data. That does say 81.9%, but they're not factoring out the BPR jobs that are either short term or part time. You take those out and you're at an even lower 77% are getting LT/FT/BPR jobs. Rayiner massages the data a little bit because it does include JD/MBAs and so he doesn't fully discount the non-BPR jobs as you generally might in most analyses of law school employment outcomes.


Another thing to consider is that c/o 2011 recruiting was a lot worse than following years.

Last year someone polled a section from c/o 2013. Over 80% (were normal JD's, who didn't have an express/obvious interest in PI) had an known SA at a marketish paying firm. That won't factor in no offers, so maybe 75% who try for big law get it all said and done.

That's only one section, but it should be fairly representative.

And those who don't get it, don't usually go off an die. But it's still fucking hard out there.

09042014
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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby 09042014 » Wed Feb 13, 2013 9:08 pm

Boo wore a very tasteful dress two years ago, with size 14 platform heals.

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Icculus
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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Icculus » Wed Feb 13, 2013 9:26 pm

franklyscarlet wrote:You guys are terrible at fashion advice, but I still want to drink with you until I pass out on something expensive.


Just don't vomit on something expensive. Apparently, this is frowned upon.

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Icculus
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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Icculus » Wed Feb 13, 2013 9:27 pm

Flips88 wrote:
Icculus wrote:This is my favorite exchange in this thread. And remember, it's all fun and games until ate set three people go home in ambulances.

Don't forget handcuffs.


I don't think that anyone actually left in handcuffs...it was more of a brief time out from what I recall.

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Flips88
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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Flips88 » Wed Feb 13, 2013 9:38 pm

Icculus wrote:
franklyscarlet wrote:You guys are terrible at fashion advice, but I still want to drink with you until I pass out on something expensive.


Just don't vomit on something expensive. Apparently, this is frowned upon.

At least we can assume Soldier Field is more accustomed to adults vomiting than the Adler Planetarium.




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