Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
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Samara
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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Samara » Tue Jul 24, 2012 2:45 pm

Icculus wrote:
Samara wrote:Apparently, there is something at NU called the Summer Law Preparatory Program. It runs the week before orientation and appears to be distinct from those Law Preview things. Does anyone know anything about this program? On a scale of 1 to an asshole on my elbow, how useful is this?

It's free thanks to SNR Denton (what happened to them, btw?), but I would have to quit work a week earlier than planned. I'm leaning towards not attending, as the money seems more useful, but wanted to make sure I'm not missing out on something actually worthwhile.


I didn't attend, and I just looked at the website, seems like working would be a far better use of your time. This is especially true because once you get here NU will make you sit through various things to introduce you to law school (Portal, Apex, etc...) I think you're fine skipping it.

Thanks! I was looking over the orientation schedule and it does look like they provide a lot of training. I just have no idea how difficult this all will be to pick up. Guess there's no way to find out until it happens.

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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby bjsesq » Tue Jul 24, 2012 2:45 pm

Samara wrote:
Icculus wrote:
Samara wrote:Apparently, there is something at NU called the Summer Law Preparatory Program. It runs the week before orientation and appears to be distinct from those Law Preview things. Does anyone know anything about this program? On a scale of 1 to an asshole on my elbow, how useful is this?

It's free thanks to SNR Denton (what happened to them, btw?), but I would have to quit work a week earlier than planned. I'm leaning towards not attending, as the money seems more useful, but wanted to make sure I'm not missing out on something actually worthwhile.


I didn't attend, and I just looked at the website, seems like working would be a far better use of your time. This is especially true because once you get here NU will make you sit through various things to introduce you to law school (Portal, Apex, etc...) I think you're fine skipping it.

Thanks! I was looking over the orientation schedule and it does look like they provide a lot of training. I just have no idea how difficult this all will be to pick up. Guess there's no way to find out until it happens.


OR DOESN'T.

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Icculus
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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Icculus » Tue Jul 24, 2012 2:50 pm

bjsesq wrote:
Samara wrote:
Icculus wrote:
Samara wrote:Apparently, there is something at NU called the Summer Law Preparatory Program. It runs the week before orientation and appears to be distinct from those Law Preview things. Does anyone know anything about this program? On a scale of 1 to an asshole on my elbow, how useful is this?

It's free thanks to SNR Denton (what happened to them, btw?), but I would have to quit work a week earlier than planned. I'm leaning towards not attending, as the money seems more useful, but wanted to make sure I'm not missing out on something actually worthwhile.


I didn't attend, and I just looked at the website, seems like working would be a far better use of your time. This is especially true because once you get here NU will make you sit through various things to introduce you to law school (Portal, Apex, etc...) I think you're fine skipping it.

Thanks! I was looking over the orientation schedule and it does look like they provide a lot of training. I just have no idea how difficult this all will be to pick up. Guess there's no way to find out until it happens.


OR DOESN'T.


It is not that difficult to pick up most of this stuff. The difficult part is training yourself to read a hundred pages a night of incredibly dense boring material. As fast as you can read now, you will start off reading cases very slowly because you won't really understand the material or what you should be looking for, this class is not going to help. It took me at least a half a semester before I really got the hang of reading cases. You're better off enjoying what time you have left this summer.

Though Dean Kagan could teach you how to put together a minute to minute schedule for your 1L year...and completely terrify you.

Edit: I never sat through that presentation with Kagan, but I have heard about it.

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Samara
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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Samara » Tue Jul 24, 2012 2:55 pm

Icculus wrote:It is not that difficult to pick up most of this stuff. The difficult part is training yourself to read a hundred pages a night of incredibly dense boring material. As fast as you can read now, you will start off reading cases very slowly because you won't really understand the material or what you should be looking for, this class is not going to help. It took me at least a half a semester before I really got the hang of reading cases. You're better off enjoying what time you have left this summer.

Though Dean Kagan could teach you how to put together a minute to minute schedule for your 1L year...and completely terrify you.

Edit: I never sat through that presentation with Kagan, but I have heard about it.

They made fun of that schedule at the Wigmore Follies show. It sounds ridiculous, haha.

That makes sense. Forcing myself to do the necessary reading will probably be the hardest part. Attention spans and all that.

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bjsesq
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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby bjsesq » Tue Jul 24, 2012 2:57 pm

Samara wrote:
Icculus wrote:It is not that difficult to pick up most of this stuff. The difficult part is training yourself to read a hundred pages a night of incredibly dense boring material. As fast as you can read now, you will start off reading cases very slowly because you won't really understand the material or what you should be looking for, this class is not going to help. It took me at least a half a semester before I really got the hang of reading cases. You're better off enjoying what time you have left this summer.

Though Dean Kagan could teach you how to put together a minute to minute schedule for your 1L year...and completely terrify you.

Edit: I never sat through that presentation with Kagan, but I have heard about it.

They made fun of that schedule at the Wigmore Follies show. It sounds ridiculous, haha.

That makes sense. Forcing myself to do the necessary reading will probably be the hardest part. Attention spans and all that.


So why start inundating yourself with stuff earlier than necessary?

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Samara
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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Samara » Tue Jul 24, 2012 3:00 pm

bjsesq wrote:
Samara wrote:
Icculus wrote:It is not that difficult to pick up most of this stuff. The difficult part is training yourself to read a hundred pages a night of incredibly dense boring material. As fast as you can read now, you will start off reading cases very slowly because you won't really understand the material or what you should be looking for, this class is not going to help. It took me at least a half a semester before I really got the hang of reading cases. You're better off enjoying what time you have left this summer.

Though Dean Kagan could teach you how to put together a minute to minute schedule for your 1L year...and completely terrify you.

Edit: I never sat through that presentation with Kagan, but I have heard about it.

They made fun of that schedule at the Wigmore Follies show. It sounds ridiculous, haha.

That makes sense. Forcing myself to do the necessary reading will probably be the hardest part. Attention spans and all that.


So why start inundating yourself with stuff earlier than necessary?

It's only a few days? Maybe there's a magic bullet? It couldn't hurt? Uncontrollable 0L anxiety?

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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Icculus » Tue Jul 24, 2012 3:00 pm

Samara wrote:
Icculus wrote:It is not that difficult to pick up most of this stuff. The difficult part is training yourself to read a hundred pages a night of incredibly dense boring material. As fast as you can read now, you will start off reading cases very slowly because you won't really understand the material or what you should be looking for, this class is not going to help. It took me at least a half a semester before I really got the hang of reading cases. You're better off enjoying what time you have left this summer.

Though Dean Kagan could teach you how to put together a minute to minute schedule for your 1L year...and completely terrify you.

Edit: I never sat through that presentation with Kagan, but I have heard about it.

They made fun of that schedule at the Wigmore Follies show. It sounds ridiculous, haha.

That makes sense. Forcing myself to do the necessary reading will probably be the hardest part. Attention spans and all that.


You were at the show? That's where I heard about it, I was working tech on that. Apparently someone a year ahead of me also said he was in the top ten percent of those people not in the top ten percent. I think that was my favorite line.

As for the reading, the first few months will be the hardest to get through, especially in a course like property where half of what you read/study is still from the old english common law. But once you get the hang of it you'll be good. While I stopped briefing half way through the semester, I did find doing it the first few weeks helped me figure out how to read cases more efficiently. That worked for me, but I know plenty of people who never briefed.

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bjsesq
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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby bjsesq » Tue Jul 24, 2012 3:01 pm

Samara wrote:
bjsesq wrote:
Samara wrote:
Icculus wrote:It is not that difficult to pick up most of this stuff. The difficult part is training yourself to read a hundred pages a night of incredibly dense boring material. As fast as you can read now, you will start off reading cases very slowly because you won't really understand the material or what you should be looking for, this class is not going to help. It took me at least a half a semester before I really got the hang of reading cases. You're better off enjoying what time you have left this summer.

Though Dean Kagan could teach you how to put together a minute to minute schedule for your 1L year...and completely terrify you.

Edit: I never sat through that presentation with Kagan, but I have heard about it.

They made fun of that schedule at the Wigmore Follies show. It sounds ridiculous, haha.

That makes sense. Forcing myself to do the necessary reading will probably be the hardest part. Attention spans and all that.


So why start inundating yourself with stuff earlier than necessary?

It's only a few days? Maybe there's a magic bullet? It couldn't hurt? Uncontrollable 0L anxiety?


Up your fap frequency and play Mario Kart. Don't torture yourself, man. Focus when it counts, not in the summer before school.

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Samara
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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Samara » Tue Jul 24, 2012 3:04 pm

bjsesq wrote:Up your fap frequency and play Mario Kart. Don't torture yourself, man. Focus when it counts, not in the summer before school.

:lol: Point well taken.

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Samara
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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Samara » Tue Jul 24, 2012 3:07 pm

Icculus wrote:You were at the show? That's where I heard about it, I was working tech on that. Apparently someone a year ahead of me also said he was in the top ten percent of those people not in the top ten percent. I think that was my favorite line.

As for the reading, the first few months will be the hardest to get through, especially in a course like property where half of what you read/study is still from the old english common law. But once you get the hang of it you'll be good. While I stopped briefing half way through the semester, I did find doing it the first few weeks helped me figure out how to read cases more efficiently. That worked for me, but I know plenty of people who never briefed.

Yeah, it was part of the ASW events. Nice work on the tech! 90% of the jokes went over our head, but there was usually enough context to get some of the humor.

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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Blumpbeef » Tue Jul 24, 2012 3:12 pm

Icculus wrote: While I stopped briefing half way through the semester, I did find doing it the first few weeks helped me figure out how to read cases more efficiently. That worked for me, but I know plenty of people who never briefed.


What do you mean by briefing? We "briefed" cases in UG by listing the parties, the questions and the rulings, but I'm assuming in LS you do something more rigrus?

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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby bjsesq » Tue Jul 24, 2012 3:24 pm

Blumpbeef wrote:
Icculus wrote: While I stopped briefing half way through the semester, I did find doing it the first few weeks helped me figure out how to read cases more efficiently. That worked for me, but I know plenty of people who never briefed.


What do you mean by briefing? We "briefed" cases in UG by listing the parties, the questions and the rulings, but I'm assuming in LS you do something more rigrus?


Ton of different ways to do it, IRAC, etc. Basically, find the issue, important points of reasoning, holding, and procedural outcome. I have never briefed in law school. Not once. Not one outline either.

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Icculus
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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Icculus » Tue Jul 24, 2012 3:27 pm

Blumpbeef wrote:
Icculus wrote: While I stopped briefing half way through the semester, I did find doing it the first few weeks helped me figure out how to read cases more efficiently. That worked for me, but I know plenty of people who never briefed.


What do you mean by briefing? We "briefed" cases in UG by listing the parties, the questions and the rulings, but I'm assuming in LS you do something more rigrus?


It's about the same, basically

Facts if the case
Questions presented
Holding
Reasoning
Dissents/Concurrences

It's just a bit more unnerving when you have a prof ask you questions about the reading for 55 minutes straight. Unlike bj, I briefed for a few weeks but once I got the hang of it I stopped because it was really just adding time to my work that was better spent doing anything but briefing.

As for outlines, I usually would get a bunch of old ones, and merge them along with my notes into my own. Never once did an outline from scratch.

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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Eugenie Danglars » Tue Jul 24, 2012 4:52 pm

Icculus wrote:
Blumpbeef wrote:
Icculus wrote: While I stopped briefing half way through the semester, I did find doing it the first few weeks helped me figure out how to read cases more efficiently. That worked for me, but I know plenty of people who never briefed.


What do you mean by briefing? We "briefed" cases in UG by listing the parties, the questions and the rulings, but I'm assuming in LS you do something more rigrus?


It's about the same, basically

Facts if the case
Questions presented
Holding
Reasoning
Dissents/Concurrences

It's just a bit more unnerving when you have a prof ask you questions about the reading for 55 minutes straight. Unlike bj, I briefed for a few weeks but once I got the hang of it I stopped because it was really just adding time to my work that was better spent doing anything but briefing.

As for outlines, I usually would get a bunch of old ones, and merge them along with my notes into my own. Never once did an outline from scratch.


I did basically this, but in my text book. Underlined the important bits and summarized each of those in the margins. Between my notes and reading to the prof what I underlined, I did fine in every cold call (except the one I hadn't read the case for, oops).

I found outlining from scratch super useful for some classes and not for other. I outlined torts, one of my electives, property, and civ pro from scratch, and did like Icculus for the others. I did better overall on the classes I outlined, but I don't think that's causative- I just do better in classes with outlineable, lots of things to remember structure than in big picture theory classes (like ConLaw).

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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby homestyle28 » Tue Jul 24, 2012 5:07 pm

Eugenie Danglars wrote:
Icculus wrote:
Blumpbeef wrote:
Icculus wrote: While I stopped briefing half way through the semester, I did find doing it the first few weeks helped me figure out how to read cases more efficiently. That worked for me, but I know plenty of people who never briefed.


What do you mean by briefing? We "briefed" cases in UG by listing the parties, the questions and the rulings, but I'm assuming in LS you do something more rigrus?


It's about the same, basically

Facts if the case
Questions presented
Holding
Reasoning
Dissents/Concurrences

It's just a bit more unnerving when you have a prof ask you questions about the reading for 55 minutes straight. Unlike bj, I briefed for a few weeks but once I got the hang of it I stopped because it was really just adding time to my work that was better spent doing anything but briefing.

As for outlines, I usually would get a bunch of old ones, and merge them along with my notes into my own. Never once did an outline from scratch.


I did basically this, but in my text book. Underlined the important bits and summarized each of those in the margins. Between my notes and reading to the prof what I underlined, I did fine in every cold call (except the one I hadn't read the case for, oops).

I found outlining from scratch super useful for some classes and not for other. I outlined torts, one of my electives, property, and civ pro from scratch, and did like Icculus for the others. I did better overall on the classes I outlined, but I don't think that's causative- I just do better in classes with outlineable, lots of things to remember structure than in big picture theory classes (like ConLaw).


I was a book briefer using the multi-colored highlighter system outlined in "1L of a ride"...I don't think it matters what sstem you adopt, but I liked that one. Also outlined the majority of my classes from scratch (but compared them with others) and did better in those classes. I gave up caring about cold calls...they're not that important...sure you may sound like an idiot at the time, but it doesn't matter come finals.

If I had 1 real comprehension tip for 1L is to not lose focus of the facts->reasoning->holding relationship. Different profs rightissue spotters in their own ways but being comfortable with the major facts of a case and how they affect the reasoning makes the analysis part of exam answers that much easier (i.e. this issue is similar to Smith v Jones, b/c of X fact, but different b/c of Y, here's how it would come out).

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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Georgia Avenue » Tue Jul 24, 2012 5:12 pm

homestyle28 wrote:I gave up caring about cold calls...they're not that important...sure you may sound like an idiot at the time, but it doesn't matter come finals.

If I had 1 real comprehension tip for 1L is to not lose focus of the facts->reasoning->holding relationship. Different profs rightissue spotters in their own ways but being comfortable with the major facts of a case and how they affect the reasoning makes the analysis part of exam answers that much easier (i.e. this issue is similar to Smith v Jones, b/c of X fact, but different b/c of Y, here's how it would come out).


This this this. Don't worry about "looking like an idiot" in front of class as a 1L. It only matters if you get the case/law when the exam rolls around, and profs won't dock your grade unless it's abundantly clear that you never ever bother to do the reading.

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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby basilseal » Tue Jul 24, 2012 5:25 pm

Thanks for all the good advice here.

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Icculus
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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Icculus » Tue Jul 24, 2012 5:36 pm

Georgia Avenue wrote:
homestyle28 wrote:I gave up caring about cold calls...they're not that important...sure you may sound like an idiot at the time, but it doesn't matter come finals.

If I had 1 real comprehension tip for 1L is to not lose focus of the facts->reasoning->holding relationship. Different profs rightissue spotters in their own ways but being comfortable with the major facts of a case and how they affect the reasoning makes the analysis part of exam answers that much easier (i.e. this issue is similar to Smith v Jones, b/c of X fact, but different b/c of Y, here's how it would come out).


This this this. Don't worry about "looking like an idiot" in front of class as a 1L. It only matters if you get the case/law when the exam rolls around, and profs won't dock your grade unless it's abundantly clear that you never ever bother to do the reading.


Agreed. I know so many people who would freak out during a cold call because they were nervous, didn't read, or something, and it really doesn't matter. Honestly, when we would leave class I would have no idea really who had been called on or what they had said unless it was either really funny or they did something way out of the ordinary (like continue to snack and basically ignore the professor until he moved on). As hard as it will be to remember, just relax and don't stress out the small stuff. Exams, CLR, and outlining will stress you out enough. the best advice I have is to do the reading every night and try and have some fun while you're here.

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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby crumpetsandtea » Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:19 pm

Has anyone had any experience with Chicago CSAs? Also, are there lots of Farmer's Markets in Chicago?

TYIA <3

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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby homestyle28 » Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:43 pm

crumpetsandtea wrote:Has anyone had any experience with Chicago CSAs? Also, are there lots of Farmer's Markets in Chicago?

TYIA <3


There is a weekly seasonal farmers market right by the law school at the museum of modern art and another in Streeterville (I don't live there, but a google search should reveal some info). If anyone ever wants to travel out to the Oak Park farmers market it's the biggest in Chicagoland, and reachable by the Green line. I live out that way and can share some info.

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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby homestyle28 » Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:47 pm

Icculus wrote: unless it was either really funny or they did something way out of the ordinary (like continue to snack and basically ignore the professor until he moved on).


I would like more details...

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Eugenie Danglars
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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Eugenie Danglars » Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:49 pm

homestyle28 wrote:
crumpetsandtea wrote:Has anyone had any experience with Chicago CSAs? Also, are there lots of Farmer's Markets in Chicago?

TYIA <3


There is a weekly seasonal farmers market right by the law school at the museum of modern art and another in Streeterville (I don't live there, but a google search should reveal some info). If anyone ever wants to travel out to the Oak Park farmers market it's the biggest in Chicagoland, and reachable by the Green line. I live out that way and can share some info.


that is like a yuppy expensive farmers market.

I have a CSA through green grocer (close to my apt), and it's AMAZING. there are tons- check chicagoist.com for a list

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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby crumpetsandtea » Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:58 pm

homestyle28 wrote:
crumpetsandtea wrote:Has anyone had any experience with Chicago CSAs? Also, are there lots of Farmer's Markets in Chicago?

TYIA <3


There is a weekly seasonal farmers market right by the law school at the museum of modern art and another in Streeterville (I don't live there, but a google search should reveal some info). If anyone ever wants to travel out to the Oak Park farmers market it's the biggest in Chicagoland, and reachable by the Green line. I live out that way and can share some info.

I'd love to hear any comments you have about the Oak Park FM. Is it super far from Streeterville? Also, do the farmer's markets go on through winter or do they stop? (LOLCalifornian, sorry I'm dumb)

Genie, does your CSA deliver or is it via pickup at a certain location? Also, does it run year round or only seasonally? Will check out Chicagoist, TY!!

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homestyle28
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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby homestyle28 » Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:03 pm

crumpetsandtea wrote:
homestyle28 wrote:
crumpetsandtea wrote:Has anyone had any experience with Chicago CSAs? Also, are there lots of Farmer's Markets in Chicago?

TYIA <3


There is a weekly seasonal farmers market right by the law school at the museum of modern art and another in Streeterville (I don't live there, but a google search should reveal some info). If anyone ever wants to travel out to the Oak Park farmers market it's the biggest in Chicagoland, and reachable by the Green line. I live out that way and can share some info.

I'd love to hear any comments you have about the Oak Park FM. Is it super far from Streeterville? Also, do the farmer's markets go on through winter or do they stop? (LOLCalifornian, sorry I'm dumb)

Genie, does your CSA deliver or is it via pickup at a certain location? Also, does it run year round or only seasonally? Will check out Chicagoist, TY!!


For sure OP is a hike from streeterville (though I do that commute everyday) it's redline to greenline thing that will make more sense when you are in the area, held on saturday mornings. Maybe good for a diversion or a trip outside of downtown. I used to live in Ohio in an area that had big farmers markets and the growers were really local. In Chicago they come from MI, WI, IN more than IL and things are more expensive than OH...but not sure how it compares to CA. OP itself is a fairly wealthy but diverse 'burb and the FM crowd shares that vibe. That said there's live bluegrass music and homemade doughnuts that are awesome! I think worth the trip, esp if you're a fan of FMs generally.

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Samara
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Re: Northwestern 3Ls Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Samara » Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:15 pm

Oak Park may also be the best suburb of Chicago. What a great area.




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