Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
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kittenmittons
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Re: Northwestern 1L taking questions

Postby kittenmittons » Thu Feb 11, 2010 10:53 am

Are all NU students virgins?

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chadwick218
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Re: Northwestern 1L taking questions

Postby chadwick218 » Thu Feb 11, 2010 10:54 am

kittenmittons wrote:Are all NU students virgins?


As a matter of fact, yes!

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TTT-LS
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Re: Northwestern 1L taking questions

Postby TTT-LS » Thu Feb 11, 2010 11:45 am

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Last edited by TTT-LS on Tue Jul 06, 2010 5:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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rayiner
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Re: Northwestern 1L taking questions

Postby rayiner » Thu Feb 11, 2010 12:51 pm

TTT-LS wrote:
Drew2010 wrote:thoughts on the current NU bashing on ATL and Leiter’s blog (regarding the Dean's comments about schools ranked below 70).. Would appreciate some input from current students

Leiter has had an axe to grind with NU for a long time, dating back to his days at UT.


Leiter wasn't a big fan of the AJD program either. Which is weird because Leiter's rankings actually make NU look pretty good.

#8 in student numeric quality: http://www.leiterrankings.com/new/2009s ... lity.shtml
#9 in prestigious firm placement: http://www.leiterrankings.com/jobs/2008job_biglaw.shtml
Just outside the top 10 in faculty scholarly impact: http://www.leiterrankings.com/faculty/2 ... pact.shtml

Apparently improving in the last measure...

Northwestern's academic reputation score has been in something of a 'free fall' (at least by U.S. News standards) for a few years now, but this surely won't help when the surveys go out next fall for next year's ranking. (Its scholarly impact ranking is actually improving, however, as a new study I'll release in a couple of weeks will confirm.)


More a comment about USNews's methodology than anything else.

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Dick Whitman
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Re: Northwestern 1L taking questions

Postby Dick Whitman » Thu Feb 11, 2010 12:54 pm

Drew2010 wrote:
TTT-LS wrote:Goddammit. Who's the asshole who forwarded the listserv thing to ATL? If it was a TLSer, I'd really be disappointed. I didn't participate in that listserv discussion, but I did find parts of it amusing. Regardless of what you thought, the right response was certainly not to make it a matter of national legal news.


This reminds me, thoughts on the current NU bashing on ATL and Leiter’s blog (regarding the Dean's comments about schools ranked below 70).. Would appreciate some input from current students


NU doesn't conform to the law school conventional wisdom. Lawyers aren't exactly known for being nonconformists, so this annoys some people to no end.

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hmlee
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Re: Northwestern 1L taking questions

Postby hmlee » Thu Feb 11, 2010 1:14 pm

What is Leiter's deal anyway? What started this whole thing?

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chadwick218
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Re: Northwestern 1L taking questions

Postby chadwick218 » Thu Feb 11, 2010 2:37 pm

rayiner wrote:
Northwestern's academic reputation score has been in something of a 'free fall' (at least by U.S. News standards) for a few years now, but this surely won't help when the surveys go out next fall for next year's ranking. (Its scholarly impact ranking is actually improving, however, as a new study I'll release in a couple of weeks will confirm.)


More a comment about USNews's methodology than anything else.


I also see “scholarly impact” improving in the near-future as NU has hired a number of “young” faculty members with a JD/PhD (which arguably lends itself very well to scholarly writing).

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rayiner
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Re: Northwestern 1L taking questions

Postby rayiner » Thu Feb 11, 2010 2:40 pm

chadwick218 wrote:
rayiner wrote:
Northwestern's academic reputation score has been in something of a 'free fall' (at least by U.S. News standards) for a few years now, but this surely won't help when the surveys go out next fall for next year's ranking. (Its scholarly impact ranking is actually improving, however, as a new study I'll release in a couple of weeks will confirm.)


More a comment about USNews's methodology than anything else.


I also see “scholarly impact” improving in the near-future as NU has hired a number of “young” faculty members with a JD/PhD (which arguably lends itself very well to scholarly writing).


Yeah, I think guys like Friedman are absolutely great.

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chadwick218
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Re: Northwestern 1L taking questions

Postby chadwick218 » Thu Feb 11, 2010 2:44 pm

rayiner wrote:
chadwick218 wrote:
rayiner wrote:
Northwestern's academic reputation score has been in something of a 'free fall' (at least by U.S. News standards) for a few years now, but this surely won't help when the surveys go out next fall for next year's ranking. (Its scholarly impact ranking is actually improving, however, as a new study I'll release in a couple of weeks will confirm.)


More a comment about USNews's methodology than anything else.


I also see “scholarly impact” improving in the near-future as NU has hired a number of “young” faculty members with a JD/PhD (which arguably lends itself very well to scholarly writing).


Yeah, I think guys like Friedman are absolutely great.


Along with Professors Brennan and Stilt who both hold PhD's from Harvard, but also spent a number of years working with V10 firms before pursuing their PhD's. All three of these professors mentioned are exceptional in the classroom and teach 1L doctrinal courses.

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Drew2010
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Re: Northwestern 1L taking questions

Postby Drew2010 » Thu Feb 11, 2010 3:27 pm

Just looked at the 1L employment thread and it got me curious: could anyone comment on whether any current NU 1L's have lined up paying summer gigs? I'm not sure if there are any paying jobs outside of firm jobs, but any information would be appreciated.

Also I appreciate the info on Leiter's NU bashing.. I wonder what his deal is. It seems like schools that have risen significantly in the past tend to get beat up more often by the bloggers, at least that is my impression. As long as Leiter's bashing has no impact on my ability to secure decent employment in Chicago, I care not.

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chadwick218
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Re: Northwestern 1L taking questions

Postby chadwick218 » Thu Feb 11, 2010 3:35 pm

Drew2010 wrote:Just looked at the 1L employment thread and it got me curious: could anyone comment on whether any current NU 1L's have lined up paying summer gigs? I'm not sure if there are any paying jobs outside of firm jobs, but any information would be appreciated.

Also I appreciate the info on Leiter's NU bashing.. I wonder what his deal is. It seems like schools that have risen significantly in the past tend to get beat up more often by the bloggers, at least that is my impression. As long as Leiter's bashing has no impact on my ability to secure decent employment in Chicago, I care not.


For paid jobs, it is still a little too early to tell. Firms have really cut down on 1L hiring ... 1L's simply have little to no value added in the major legal markets right now. Some of the gov't type jobs that I have looked into still do not know whether or not they will be offering "paid" positions for the summer.

The only firms / regions that are hiring 1L's seem to be more secondary regions. By hiring a 1L from NU, there is some hope that they will be able to convince them to hang around for a second summer and ultimately come work for them full-time. They are looking for students that they might otherwise be "priced-out of" come OCI. Although these tend to be smaller / mid-size firms, they actually have an incentive to hire 1L's from schools like NU.

In my section alone, I do know of ~10 folks who have judicial externship offers with federal judges.

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tome
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Re: Northwestern 1L taking questions

Postby tome » Thu Feb 11, 2010 3:50 pm

We have a terrible academic rating for a reason. NU has totally abandoned serious scholarly work on the law and teaching. All we do is hire PhDs in quantitative fields at the expense of traditional legal academics. That is also why so many of our doctrinal courses are taught by non-tenure track 'professors'.

Don't get me wrong, Stilt, for example, was a great hire. The fact that she has a PhD does not make her part of the problem. Even hiring a few straight sociologists or whatever would not be a problem (I don't think anyone would argue that Epstein is not awesome to have around). But that is ALL we hire now.

DVZ has made NU an amazing school, and I am happy to take the good with what I perceive is the bad, but I think he has it wrong on this one.

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tome
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Re: Northwestern 1L taking questions

Postby tome » Thu Feb 11, 2010 3:55 pm

TTT-LS wrote:Goddammit. Who's the asshole who forwarded the listserv thing to ATL? If it was a TLSer, I'd really be disappointed. I didn't participate in that listserv discussion, but I did find parts of it amusing. Regardless of what you thought, the right response was certainly not to make it a matter of national legal news.


A) Agreed. What pathetic wanker gets fulfillment in his sad little life out of being the one to tell ATL about a nothing discussion on a listserv. I am sure similar discussions happen on every law school listserv, but no one is lame enough to send it to ATL, and so we end up looking ridiculous.

B) Why does ATL post this shit?

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Drew2010
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Re: Northwestern 1L taking questions

Postby Drew2010 » Thu Feb 11, 2010 3:55 pm

tome wrote:We have a terrible academic rating for a reason. NU has totally abandoned serious scholarly work on the law and teaching. All we do is hire PhDs in quantitative fields at the expense of traditional legal academics. That is also why so many of our doctrinal courses are taught by non-tenure track 'professors'.

Don't get me wrong, Stilt, for example, was a great hire. The fact that she has a PhD does not make her part of the problem. Even hiring a few straight sociologists or whatever would not be a problem (I don't think anyone would argue that Epstein is not awesome to have around). But that is ALL we hire now.

DVZ has made NU an amazing school, and I am happy to take the good with what I perceive is the bad, but I think he has it wrong on this one.


What would you say regarding their Academic Career Programs?

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tome
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Re: Northwestern 1L taking questions

Postby tome » Thu Feb 11, 2010 3:59 pm

Drew2010 wrote:
tome wrote:We have a terrible academic rating for a reason. NU has totally abandoned serious scholarly work on the law and teaching. All we do is hire PhDs in quantitative fields at the expense of traditional legal academics. That is also why so many of our doctrinal courses are taught by non-tenure track 'professors'.

Don't get me wrong, Stilt, for example, was a great hire. The fact that she has a PhD does not make her part of the problem. Even hiring a few straight sociologists or whatever would not be a problem (I don't think anyone would argue that Epstein is not awesome to have around). But that is ALL we hire now.

DVZ has made NU an amazing school, and I am happy to take the good with what I perceive is the bad, but I think he has it wrong on this one.


What would you say regarding their Academic Career Programs?


They are really worthwhile from everything I hear. NU does a lot of stuff very well. E.g from what I understand, our senior research program is well beyond what most other schools do in terms of meaningful faculty-student interaction.

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TTT-LS
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Re: Northwestern 1L taking questions

Postby TTT-LS » Thu Feb 11, 2010 6:29 pm

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Last edited by TTT-LS on Tue Jul 06, 2010 5:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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chadwick218
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Re: Northwestern 1L taking questions

Postby chadwick218 » Thu Feb 11, 2010 7:46 pm

TTT-LS wrote:Most years, the SFPIF grant is $4k-$5k, with no repayment requirement at all (all you need to do is put in 10 hours/semester volunteering and apply!).


Except this year ... or so we are being told! With demand for summer grant money strikingly high, 1L's are being warned that they may go "grantless" in the coming year.
Last edited by chadwick218 on Fri Feb 12, 2010 12:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Dick Whitman
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Re: Northwestern 1L taking questions

Postby Dick Whitman » Fri Feb 12, 2010 12:09 am

tome wrote:We have a terrible academic rating for a reason. NU has totally abandoned serious scholarly work on the law and teaching. All we do is hire PhDs in quantitative fields at the expense of traditional legal academics. That is also why so many of our doctrinal courses are taught by non-tenure track 'professors'.

Don't get me wrong, Stilt, for example, was a great hire. The fact that she has a PhD does not make her part of the problem. Even hiring a few straight sociologists or whatever would not be a problem (I don't think anyone would argue that Epstein is not awesome to have around). But that is ALL we hire now.

DVZ has made NU an amazing school, and I am happy to take the good with what I perceive is the bad, but I think he has it wrong on this one.


This is the complaint from older, traditional-type faculty. As those types dominate the academics surveyed for the academic rating, we get dinged. I believe, however, that we are simply reacting to a changing academic market. Law is (finally) moving towards more empirical research, as pretty much every social science did long ago. Given the explosion in legal scholarship, it's a wonder anyone ever finds anything non-empirical to write on.

And it's not true that we only hire straight social scientists. We're hiring Yale JDs, Michigan JDs who graduated magna, etc. who just happen to also have phds in economics.

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chadwick218
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Re: Northwestern 1L taking questions

Postby chadwick218 » Fri Feb 12, 2010 1:33 am

86revolt wrote:I have an on-campus interview at NU on March 4. Thinking about staying in the area through the weekend to explore the town and get a feel for the environment. Are there any 1/2/3Ls who have some time to burn on the weekend and can show me around? deep dish pizza? sports bars? or whatever else it is that NU students do on a thu/fri/sat?


Your interview is on March 4th? Thursday night is indeed bar review night.

09042014
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Re: Northwestern 1L taking questions

Postby 09042014 » Wed Feb 24, 2010 6:50 pm

I posted this on the AJD taking questions, and I'll post it here to see what regular NU students think.

I've got the option doing doing the AJD, or staying in the regular class of 2013.

What do you think the pro's and cons of the AJD are compared to the regular JD?

Did you notice any bias at OCI?

Thanks in advance.

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chadwick218
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Re: Northwestern 1L taking questions

Postby chadwick218 » Wed Feb 24, 2010 6:54 pm

Desert Fox wrote:I posted this on the AJD taking questions, and I'll post it here to see what regular NU students think.

I've got the option doing doing the AJD, or staying in the regular class of 2013.

What do you think the pro's and cons of the AJD are compared to the regular JD?

Did you notice any bias at OCI?

Thanks in advance.


If I had the option, I would have opted for the 2-year program. The biggest downside that I see is that OCI is based on 1 summer, 17 hours, worth of grades (this could be very good and very bad).

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TTT-LS
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Re: Northwestern 1L taking questions

Postby TTT-LS » Wed Feb 24, 2010 7:02 pm

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Last edited by TTT-LS on Tue Jul 06, 2010 6:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

09042014
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Re: Northwestern 1L taking questions

Postby 09042014 » Wed Feb 24, 2010 11:55 pm

TTT-LS wrote:DF, I think it comes down to personal preference. If you're ready for a breakneck pace the next two years and you have good time management skills, the AJD program is worth a serious look. I don't think the AJD program will save you $ over the regular JD program as far as tuition goes, but you'll pick up an extra year of earning potential. That's a pretty huge deal. Plus, the AJD program includes some pretty innovative classes that legal employers seem to care about a lot. Pointing the other way is the state of the economy. Things are getting better slowly--indeed the entire class of 2010 just got a hiring notice from a Chicago biglaw firm this afternoon, which is interesting considering 3L hiring has been more or less dead for over a year--but you'll have to assess whether they'll be a lot better in August 2011 than they will be in August 2010.

Another consideration: do you know what kind of law you want to practice already? If not, then the regular JD program will give you more time (and an additional summer's worth of experience) to make up your mind before OCI, etc.


This decision is a tough one.

Pros: Get into a firm a year early, and the extra year of employment.

Its a good time to leave my job, so starting in May is nice.


Cons: I'm 24, and won't even have two years of W/E by the time I start. I'll be the least business qualified of the AJD, and I'm worried that may hurt since employers who want AJD's won't be impressed with my work history.

I won't have grades in time for the loyola patent interview program, and I'm seriously considering patent law since I've got a BSEE. But I'm sure the patent firms in Chicago go to NU's OCI.

My brother is coming home from a rehab hospital with quadriplegia next week and I was planning on being around until August to help get him adjusted.

My academic history is poor. I got a 2.8 in undergrad because I didn't put form and effort, and I while I really think I can put the effort in, I'm not sure taking an over loaded schedule is such a smart idea.

Does anyone have any more insights? I appreciate what you guys have added already.

This is a tough call because the program is alluring but also somewhat of an unknown entity.

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Drew2010
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Re: Northwestern 1L taking questions

Postby Drew2010 » Thu Feb 25, 2010 12:14 am

DF, check PM's please

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hmlee
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Re: Northwestern 1L taking questions

Postby hmlee » Thu Feb 25, 2010 1:28 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
TTT-LS wrote:DF, I think it comes down to personal preference. If you're ready for a breakneck pace the next two years and you have good time management skills, the AJD program is worth a serious look. I don't think the AJD program will save you $ over the regular JD program as far as tuition goes, but you'll pick up an extra year of earning potential. That's a pretty huge deal. Plus, the AJD program includes some pretty innovative classes that legal employers seem to care about a lot. Pointing the other way is the state of the economy. Things are getting better slowly--indeed the entire class of 2010 just got a hiring notice from a Chicago biglaw firm this afternoon, which is interesting considering 3L hiring has been more or less dead for over a year--but you'll have to assess whether they'll be a lot better in August 2011 than they will be in August 2010.

Another consideration: do you know what kind of law you want to practice already? If not, then the regular JD program will give you more time (and an additional summer's worth of experience) to make up your mind before OCI, etc.


This decision is a tough one.

Pros: Get into a firm a year early, and the extra year of employment.

Its a good time to leave my job, so starting in May is nice.


Cons: I'm 24, and won't even have two years of W/E by the time I start. I'll be the least business qualified of the AJD, and I'm worried that may hurt since employers who want AJD's won't be impressed with my work history.

I won't have grades in time for the loyola patent interview program, and I'm seriously considering patent law since I've got a BSEE. But I'm sure the patent firms in Chicago go to NU's OCI.

My brother is coming home from a rehab hospital with quadriplegia next week and I was planning on being around until August to help get him adjusted.

My academic history is poor. I got a 2.8 in undergrad because I didn't put form and effort, and I while I really think I can put the effort in, I'm not sure taking an over loaded schedule is such a smart idea.

Does anyone have any more insights? I appreciate what you guys have added already.

This is a tough call because the program is alluring but also somewhat of an unknown entity.


I think your concerns about the AJD program relative to your circumstances are legitimate. I'd do the regular JD if I was you, but I *am* a regular JD and not an AJD so I may be biased.




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