Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
09042014
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Re: Northwestern Students Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby 09042014 » Wed Apr 11, 2012 11:46 pm

bdubs wrote:What GPA(s) give someone:
1) no shot at LR
2) an outside shot at LR
3) a pretty good shot at LR

??

Trying to decide if doing the competition is even worthwhile if LR is my only goal.


Something like 20-25% of all LR people write on. So you've got as good of chance as anyone below 3.7.

From rumors and guestimations ~3.7 is when you no longer have a shot at doing the mixed grade on. I think over 3.85 you have a good shot. But people above that can miss it.

/a lot of guess work.

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Re: Northwestern Students Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby bjsesq » Wed Apr 11, 2012 11:51 pm

bdubs wrote:What GPA(s) give someone:
1) no shot at LR
2) an outside shot at LR
3) a pretty good shot at LR

??

Trying to decide if doing the competition is even worthwhile if LR is my only goal.


LOLJOURNAL

bdubs
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Re: Northwestern Students Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby bdubs » Wed Apr 11, 2012 11:52 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
bdubs wrote:What GPA(s) give someone:
1) no shot at LR
2) an outside shot at LR
3) a pretty good shot at LR

??

Trying to decide if doing the competition is even worthwhile if LR is my only goal.


Something like 20-25% of all LR people write on. So you've got as good of chance as anyone below 3.7.

From rumors and guestimations ~3.7 is when you no longer have a shot at doing the mixed grade on. I think over 3.85 you have a good shot. But people above that can miss it.

/a lot of guess work.


Thanks. I'll try to convince myself that my mediocrity in CLR doesn't completely rule me out from a straight write on spot. I had heard everything from <3.9 is a no go, to 3.7+ was still in the running. I guess no one knows for sure (other than the LR membership editor).
Last edited by bdubs on Wed Apr 11, 2012 11:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Northwestern Students Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby bjsesq » Wed Apr 11, 2012 11:55 pm

bdubs wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
bdubs wrote:What GPA(s) give someone:
1) no shot at LR
2) an outside shot at LR
3) a pretty good shot at LR

??

Trying to decide if doing the competition is even worthwhile if LR is my only goal.


Something like 20-25% of all LR people write on. So you've got as good of chance as anyone below 3.7.

From rumors and guestimations ~3.7 is when you no longer have a shot at doing the mixed grade on. I think over 3.85 you have a good shot. But people above that can miss it.

/a lot of guess work.


Thanks. I'll try to convince myself that my mediocrity in CLR doesn't completely rule me out from straight write on spot. I had heard everything from <3.9 is a no go, to 3.7+ was still in the running. I guess no one knows for sure.


Bingo. And to be honest, the knowledge doesn't really do anything for you anyway. If you are honestly seeking to get on one of the flagship journals, you just gotta work your ass off on write on. Good luck to you, man.

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Re: Northwestern Students Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby 09042014 » Thu Apr 12, 2012 12:29 am

One of the flagship? LOL there is only one. JCLC = JLSP as far as the world is concerned.

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Re: Northwestern Students Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby bjsesq » Thu Apr 12, 2012 1:24 am

Desert Fox wrote:One of the flagship? LOL there is only one. JCLC = JLSP as far as the world is concerned.


I don't keep up on such things. I thought it was ok.

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Re: Northwestern Students Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby DrManflesh » Thu Apr 12, 2012 11:43 am

Desert Fox wrote:One of the flagship? LOL there is only one. JCLC = JLSP as far as the world is concerned.


who knows? I think a lot of places have "huge chip on one's shoulder" as a standard trait to look for in job applicants.

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rayiner
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Re: Northwestern Students Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby rayiner » Thu Apr 12, 2012 12:03 pm

bdubs wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
bdubs wrote:What GPA(s) give someone:
1) no shot at LR
2) an outside shot at LR
3) a pretty good shot at LR

??

Trying to decide if doing the competition is even worthwhile if LR is my only goal.


Something like 20-25% of all LR people write on. So you've got as good of chance as anyone below 3.7.

From rumors and guestimations ~3.7 is when you no longer have a shot at doing the mixed grade on. I think over 3.85 you have a good shot. But people above that can miss it.

/a lot of guess work.


Thanks. I'll try to convince myself that my mediocrity in CLR doesn't completely rule me out from a straight write on spot. I had heard everything from <3.9 is a no go, to 3.7+ was still in the running. I guess no one knows for sure (other than the LR membership editor).


There are 241 1L's in your class. LR has 26 mixed writing/grades spots, 10 write-on spots, and 5 spots for AJD/s and transfers. That means 11% of the 1L class can get on without writing on. Because grades are only 50% of your score, the whole top 10% does not make LR. Indeed, if we assume that writing competition scores are completely uncorrelated with grades, then someone who is roughly top 1/3 in both grades and writing competition would be in the ~11% that end up on LR without writing on.

This gives you a range, with the upper bound for the grade cut-off being top-10% and the lower bound being roughly top-30%. On our curve, that's roughly 3.85 at the high end and 3.65 a the low end. Now, grades are somewhat correlated with writing competition score, but not perfectly so (there are a lot of people at very grade selective firms who are not on LR). I would guess that 3.75 (roughly top 15%) would be a good guess at where the cut-off is for acceptance with a great writing competition entry.

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Re: Northwestern Students Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby JamMasterJ » Thu Apr 12, 2012 12:38 pm

rayiner wrote:
bdubs wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
bdubs wrote:What GPA(s) give someone:
1) no shot at LR
2) an outside shot at LR
3) a pretty good shot at LR

??

Trying to decide if doing the competition is even worthwhile if LR is my only goal.


Something like 20-25% of all LR people write on. So you've got as good of chance as anyone below 3.7.

From rumors and guestimations ~3.7 is when you no longer have a shot at doing the mixed grade on. I think over 3.85 you have a good shot. But people above that can miss it.

/a lot of guess work.


Thanks. I'll try to convince myself that my mediocrity in CLR doesn't completely rule me out from a straight write on spot. I had heard everything from <3.9 is a no go, to 3.7+ was still in the running. I guess no one knows for sure (other than the LR membership editor).


There are 241 1L's in your class. LR has 26 mixed writing/grades spots, 10 write-on spots, and 5 spots for AJD/s and transfers. That means 11% of the 1L class can get on without writing on. Because grades are only 50% of your score, the whole top 10% does not make LR. Indeed, if we assume that writing competition scores are completely uncorrelated with grades, then someone who is roughly top 1/3 in both grades and writing competition would be in the ~11% that end up on LR without writing on.

This gives you a range, with the upper bound for the grade cut-off being top-10% and the lower bound being roughly top-30%. On our curve, that's roughly 3.85 at the high end and 3.65 a the low end. Now, grades are somewhat correlated with writing competition score, but not perfectly so (there are a lot of people at very grade selective firms who are not on LR). I would guess that 3.75 (roughly top 15%) would be a good guess at where the cut-off is for acceptance with a great writing competition entry.

this makes so much more sense than what my tour guide told me

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Re: Northwestern Students Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby 09042014 » Thu Apr 12, 2012 2:52 pm

rayiner wrote:
bdubs wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
bdubs wrote:What GPA(s) give someone:
1) no shot at LR
2) an outside shot at LR
3) a pretty good shot at LR

??

Trying to decide if doing the competition is even worthwhile if LR is my only goal.


Something like 20-25% of all LR people write on. So you've got as good of chance as anyone below 3.7.

From rumors and guestimations ~3.7 is when you no longer have a shot at doing the mixed grade on. I think over 3.85 you have a good shot. But people above that can miss it.

/a lot of guess work.


Thanks. I'll try to convince myself that my mediocrity in CLR doesn't completely rule me out from a straight write on spot. I had heard everything from <3.9 is a no go, to 3.7+ was still in the running. I guess no one knows for sure (other than the LR membership editor).


There are 241 1L's in your class. LR has 26 mixed writing/grades spots, 10 write-on spots, and 5 spots for AJD/s and transfers. That means 11% of the 1L class can get on without writing on. Because grades are only 50% of your score, the whole top 10% does not make LR. Indeed, if we assume that writing competition scores are completely uncorrelated with grades, then someone who is roughly top 1/3 in both grades and writing competition would be in the ~11% that end up on LR without writing on.

This gives you a range, with the upper bound for the grade cut-off being top-10% and the lower bound being roughly top-30%. On our curve, that's roughly 3.85 at the high end and 3.65 a the low end. Now, grades are somewhat correlated with writing competition score, but not perfectly so (there are a lot of people at very grade selective firms who are not on LR). I would guess that 3.75 (roughly top 15%) would be a good guess at where the cut-off is for acceptance with a great writing competition entry.


When creating their mixed score, I wonder if LR is normalizing each score first. I guessing not, which could mean its impossible to tell how write on and how much grades effect your chances.

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Re: Northwestern Students Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby IAFG » Thu Apr 12, 2012 3:59 pm

Desert Fox wrote:When creating their mixed score, I wonder if LR is normalizing each score first. I guessing not, which could mean its impossible to tell how write on and how much grades effect your chances.

(Almost) perfect punctuation, grammar, spelling, capitalization? Who are you and what have you done with DF?

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Re: Northwestern Students Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby D-hops » Thu Apr 12, 2012 4:50 pm

Desert Fox wrote:When creating their mixed score, I wonder if LR is normalizing each score first. I guessing not, which could mean its impossible to tell how write on and how much grades effect your chances.


Both are normalized so the split is a true 50-50 split between grades and writing competition score.

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Re: Northwestern Students Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby 09042014 » Thu Apr 12, 2012 5:02 pm

D-hops wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:When creating their mixed score, I wonder if LR is normalizing each score first. I guessing not, which could mean its impossible to tell how write on and how much grades effect your chances.


Both are normalized so the split is a true 50-50 split between grades and writing competition score.

Good to know. I'm shocked law students figured that out.

I don't believe when law professors divide grades like that.

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Icculus
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Re: Northwestern Students Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Icculus » Fri Apr 13, 2012 12:50 pm

Okay, so completely different track than LR, anyone on here take Presser's American legal history class and have an outline or tips for doing well they may want to share?

Or a Civ Pro II w/ Reddish outline. I am seriously regretting my class choices right now, fucking curves.

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Re: Northwestern Students Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby splitmuch » Fri Apr 13, 2012 2:01 pm

Icculus wrote:Okay, so completely different track than LR, anyone on here take Presser's American legal history class and have an outline or tips for doing well they may want to share?

Or a Civ Pro II w/ Reddish outline. I am seriously regretting my class choices right now, fucking curves.


lolz. Told you.

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Re: Northwestern Students Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby bk1 » Fri Apr 13, 2012 2:12 pm

Icculus wrote:Okay, so completely different track than LR, anyone on here take Presser's American legal history class and have an outline or tips for doing well they may want to share?

Or a Civ Pro II w/ Reddish outline. I am seriously regretting my class choices right now, fucking curves.


Appropriate tar is appropriate.

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Icculus
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Re: Northwestern Students Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Icculus » Fri Apr 13, 2012 3:33 pm

bk1 wrote:
Icculus wrote:Okay, so completely different track than LR, anyone on here take Presser's American legal history class and have an outline or tips for doing well they may want to share?

Or a Civ Pro II w/ Reddish outline. I am seriously regretting my class choices right now, fucking curves.


Appropriate tar is appropriate.


Yes, thank you. Oh well, I'll just get twice as drunk on the boat cruise. In hind sight I should have taken state and local and tax w/ the visiting prof.

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Holly Golightly
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Re: Northwestern Students Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Holly Golightly » Fri Apr 13, 2012 6:19 pm

Icculus wrote:
bk1 wrote:
Icculus wrote:Okay, so completely different track than LR, anyone on here take Presser's American legal history class and have an outline or tips for doing well they may want to share?

Or a Civ Pro II w/ Reddish outline. I am seriously regretting my class choices right now, fucking curves.


Appropriate tar is appropriate.


Yes, thank you. Oh well, I'll just get twice as drunk on the boat cruise. In hind sight I should have taken state and local and tax w/ the visiting prof.

LOL @ thinking State & Local is easy. Unless it's a drastically different class this year.

Although Civ Pro 2 will be the death of me.

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Re: Northwestern Students Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Ricochet48 » Sun Apr 15, 2012 1:39 am

First post, so cut me a bit of slack, eh?

So here I am at midnight in the suburbs of Chicago, with stacks of LSAT books at hand, and the tunes of Coachella drowning out the thunderstorm at the window--I am quite serious about my potential journey to Northwestern.

Before I go on, I'd like to introduce myself and give a little bit of background on how I came to post on TLS this fine evening.

I turned 25 a few weeks ago and currently work as an auditor at a local firm. I travel about two dozen weeks a year across the country and have recently became managing clients. To get here, I graduated from UIUC with a Masters in Accounting and obtained my CPA certification. I also passed the CFE (Certified Fraud Examiners) exam and will received my certification upon completing two years of work experience (this August).

I took a PR LSAT prep class to 'get my feet wet' during my graduate year at UIUC. I focused much heavier on my grades as I planned to take the class again for free. I did end up doing extremely well in my 5th year with a 4.04 LSAC GPA, but the next time I scheduled my PR class for ended up outside they one year rage (so I had to pay again). Long story short, after taking the class geared towards to October 2011 exam, I did not feel ready and backed out.

Now here I am a half year later, studying hard for the June LSAT during busy season at work (taxes due on Tuesday!). I know I need to score really well in addition to having solid softs. I am hoping (realistically) that a 168, 3.6UG GPA, 4.04G GPA, CPA, CFE, and a some great work experience/LOR's will put me in good contention. As I already have a steady job, law school is NOT a must for me and I will basically only attend one of three schools or bust: Northwestern (dream, give myself 15% shot), Notre Dame, or Wash U (STL). Originally I looked to UIUC as they were climbing the rankings (and I love the campus), but after their recent scandal and huge drop in rankings, it's essentially out of the pictures.

Anyways, as Imentioned, my sister recently attended and I live in the area (will be moving to Lakeview this summer), so I do not have to many 'culture' questions (except how good was the last Wigmore Follies?!). From what I have seen, I would give almost anything to attend (including not going to Wrigleyville with my friends tonight).

I would like to ask though, aside from studying for the LSAT, what else can I do to improve my chances from now until application time (September?). Currently, I plan to intern at a law firm in Shanghai for 4 weeks starting in July (and ending right before Lolla!). I feel that this combined with my CFE will provide some sort of 'bridge' from my business background to law. Before attending, I also planned to give myself a month of so in the summer to unwind, travel, etc. My current job pays well enough that I can 'afford' to do so even with the debt looming ahead.

Speaking of debt, as a good bean counter, I have analyzed this too. With standard raises and significant figure parental support (which I am extremely thankful for), I really wouldn't have much debt afterwards (~65k). It would then take me 4 years of earning the typically misquoted $160k (which I know is still difficult to obtain even with a JD from NW) to 'break even' with what I would have made as an auditor, but I would presumably be making double.

Overall, I have done my research and put in my study time. I know the importance of hard numbers, but I just want to work and give myself every 'boast' possible.

Thanks for you time, sorry for the long-winded introduction, but I just wanted to clarify that I'm some clueless K-JD that doesn't know anything about the school, area, application process, etc.

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Re: Northwestern Students Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Flips88 » Sun Apr 15, 2012 1:45 am

Sorry to break it to you, but your graduate GPA doesn't matter much for admissions. So your best bet is to get a 170+ on the LSAT. Your work experience will be very helpful to you. Since you're in the area, I'd recommend interviewing when you apply and write a strong Why Northwestern essay. Sounds like your application is pretty solid except for your TBD LSAT. Just crush that and you'll have a good chance at admission.

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Re: Northwestern Students Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby bk1 » Sun Apr 15, 2012 1:49 am

Ricochet48 wrote:I would like to ask though, aside from studying for the LSAT, what else can I do to improve my chances from now until application time (September?).


Not much really. Just focus on the LSAT. You really should get a 170+. If you don't get that in June, retake again this fall. I can't tell what your LSAC GPA is (it won't include any grades you received after your first bachelor's). If it's a 3.6 then without a 170+ you don't have much of a shot. If it's a 4.04 then you've got a good shot even with a 168 but with a 170+ you could get decent scholarship money.

Another thing I'd recommend is that if you do get a 170+, you might want to consider NU's ED program as they give a full ride (I think this cycle they gave it to people with decent stats who had 2+ years work experience). Though this depends on what your LSAC GPA is. If it's a 4.04 then you won't need to ED, but if it's a 3.6 I think I'd bite that bullet.

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Re: Northwestern Students Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Ricochet48 » Sun Apr 15, 2012 1:20 pm

Flips88 wrote:Sorry to break it to you, but your graduate GPA doesn't matter much for admissions. So your best bet is to get a 170+ on the LSAT. Your work experience will be very helpful to you. Since you're in the area, I'd recommend interviewing when you apply and write a strong Why Northwestern essay. Sounds like your application is pretty solid except for your TBD LSAT. Just crush that and you'll have a good chance at admission.


Oh yes I understand that graduate GPA's mean next to nothing. I was just adding into the soft category.

I was striving to emphasize that there's quite the difference between the accounting (and MAS) classes I took at UIUC vs. what some of friends in law school now took (with their English, Psychology, Poly Sci, etc. majors). I feel that in total such softs would only accumulate into 2 'bonus points,' hence my goal of 168 (+2 = 170, the average). Our accounting program was numero uno in the country when I was a freshman.

bk1 wrote:
Ricochet48 wrote:I would like to ask though, aside from studying for the LSAT, what else can I do to improve my chances from now until application time (September?).


Not much really. Just focus on the LSAT. You really should get a 170+. If you don't get that in June, retake again this fall. I can't tell what your LSAC GPA is (it won't include any grades you received after your first bachelor's). If it's a 3.6 then without a 170+ you don't have much of a shot. If it's a 4.04 then you've got a good shot even with a 168 but with a 170+ you could get decent scholarship money.

Another thing I'd recommend is that if you do get a 170+, you might want to consider NU's ED program as they give a full ride (I think this cycle they gave it to people with decent stats who had 2+ years work experience). Though this depends on what your LSAC GPA is. If it's a 4.04 then you won't need to ED, but if it's a 3.6 I think I'd bite that bullet.


LSAC undergraduate GPA will equate to a little over a 3.6 (as I got a few A+'s here and there). Grad LSAC is 4.04, but as mentioned, that's only for 1 year and doesn't matter much at all.

Glad you brought up ED. I was wondering if that would hurt me or now. I thought that some of the stronger candidates would do that as well and I may be hurt if I don't get a 170+. I know this is a tough question as I don't know my score, but hypotheticals work just as well. Say, if I scored a 168, I don't know if ED is a good choice?


Also, new question, is there a way to sign up and take a tour before applying. I would like to 'get my name in the system' that I checked out the school, am serious about applying, etc. I don't know if that's something to do after applying or what?


Thanks so much for your quick responses, I really appreciate it.

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Flips88
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Re: Northwestern Students Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Flips88 » Sun Apr 15, 2012 1:34 pm

Ricochet48 wrote:
Also, new question, is there a way to sign up and take a tour before applying. I would like to 'get my name in the system' that I checked out the school, am serious about applying, etc. I don't know if that's something to do after applying or what?


Thanks so much for your quick responses, I really appreciate it.

Yeah, they offer tours on Thursdays throughout the school year for prospective students. I think you just have to call or email admissions to set one up. Not sure if there are any more this semester since the year is over in 2.5 weeks.

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IAFG
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Re: Northwestern Students Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby IAFG » Sun Apr 15, 2012 1:52 pm

Flips88 wrote:
Ricochet48 wrote:
Also, new question, is there a way to sign up and take a tour before applying. I would like to 'get my name in the system' that I checked out the school, am serious about applying, etc. I don't know if that's something to do after applying or what?


Thanks so much for your quick responses, I really appreciate it.

Yeah, they offer tours on Thursdays throughout the school year for prospective students. I think you just have to call or email admissions to set one up. Not sure if there are any more this semester since the year is over in 2.5 weeks.

They just tell you where the tour meets. They don't let you put your name in the system or acknowledge your visit in any way.

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Re: Northwestern Students Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Ricochet48 » Sun Apr 15, 2012 3:35 pm

IAFG wrote:
Flips88 wrote:
Ricochet48 wrote:
Also, new question, is there a way to sign up and take a tour before applying. I would like to 'get my name in the system' that I checked out the school, am serious about applying, etc. I don't know if that's something to do after applying or what?


Thanks so much for your quick responses, I really appreciate it.

Yeah, they offer tours on Thursdays throughout the school year for prospective students. I think you just have to call or email admissions to set one up. Not sure if there are any more this semester since the year is over in 2.5 weeks.

They just tell you where the tour meets. They don't let you put your name in the system or acknowledge your visit in any way.


Oh I see. Well, considering I've already seen quite a bit of the campus I really don't see the point in specifically doing one beforehand. I just remember visiting colleges for undergrad that they would write your name/enter it into the system that you visited. This way they would know you would be more likely to attend etc.

Thanks.




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