Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

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09042014
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Re: Northwestern Students Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby 09042014 » Thu Mar 08, 2012 7:15 pm

Samara wrote:So...I've been soaking up information on biglaw employment/OCI. Come to find out, pretty much everything on my resume is a flight risk red flag for biglaw. (At least, according to that V15 guy in the employment forum.) It's not exactly hippie PI stuff, but it sounds like it's close enough. I thought my several years of WE would be helpful for OCI, but now I'm not so sure.

Are there things I can do to demonstrate my interest in biglaw during 1L? Law review seems pretty important, so I could gun for that. And obviously, getting a corporate 1L summer job. But both of those things seem hard to get. Are there other things I can try to do? Or is this not as big of a problem as I am making it out to be?

On an unrelated note, I've seen some people talk about being a research assistant during the school year. I assume that's something you do in 2L or 3L? Is it hard to get? Is it helpful at all for biglaw?

TYIA You guys are awesome.


I'd take practical courses for your 1L Second Semester elective courses instead of something public interesty. Like taking Business Associations or something.

Try for a small firm, or company for 1L summer, but thats harder.

I'd just have a convincing reason for why you no longer want PI type stuff, and make sure you can deliver it in interviews.

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bjsesq
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Re: Northwestern Students Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby bjsesq » Thu Mar 08, 2012 7:18 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
Samara wrote:So...I've been soaking up information on biglaw employment/OCI. Come to find out, pretty much everything on my resume is a flight risk red flag for biglaw. (At least, according to that V15 guy in the employment forum.) It's not exactly hippie PI stuff, but it sounds like it's close enough. I thought my several years of WE would be helpful for OCI, but now I'm not so sure.

Are there things I can do to demonstrate my interest in biglaw during 1L? Law review seems pretty important, so I could gun for that. And obviously, getting a corporate 1L summer job. But both of those things seem hard to get. Are there other things I can try to do? Or is this not as big of a problem as I am making it out to be?

On an unrelated note, I've seen some people talk about being a research assistant during the school year. I assume that's something you do in 2L or 3L? Is it hard to get? Is it helpful at all for biglaw?

TYIA You guys are awesome.


I'd take practical courses for your 1L Second Semester elective courses instead of something public interesty. Like taking Business Associations or something.

Try for a small firm, or company for 1L summer, but thats harder.

I'd just have a convincing reason for why you no longer want PI type stuff, and make sure you can deliver it in interviews.


This is much easier than you think. Just be honest as to why you want something else besides PI and they won't be as freaked out as you think.

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homestyle28
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Re: Northwestern Students Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby homestyle28 » Thu Mar 08, 2012 7:29 pm

bjsesq wrote: Just be honest as to why you want something else besides PI and they won't be as freaked out as you think.


From what I've heard and experienced this is about right. Work with career services to get your story straight about why you want non-PI stuff. I think you're background is going to come into play more when you're right at the edge w/ grades.

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crumpetsandtea
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Re: Northwestern Students Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby crumpetsandtea » Thu Mar 08, 2012 7:36 pm

What if your honest response is "I want moniez so I don't end up a bum on the street"?

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homestyle28
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Re: Northwestern Students Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby homestyle28 » Thu Mar 08, 2012 7:43 pm

crumpetsandtea wrote:What if your honest response is "I want moniez so I don't end up a bum on the street"?
I've come to think that's most people's honest answer...just have to dress it up a little.

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bjsesq
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Re: Northwestern Students Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby bjsesq » Thu Mar 08, 2012 7:43 pm

crumpetsandtea wrote:What if your honest response is "I want moniez so I don't end up a bum on the street"?


Just say it. A response like: "I am going to have a ton of debt, and while the idea of saving the world is a great thing, I need to be pragmatic too. On top of that, the training opportunities at your firm just blow PI job X out of the water. How could I not want to work for you?" Honest, but you still compliment them. It's not hard to be honest in an interview, folks.

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Re: Northwestern Students Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Flips88 » Thu Mar 08, 2012 9:33 pm

I'm pretty sure I'll do OCI because my ultimate goals are either USAO or DOJ and it seems like you have to typically put in a few years at a firm before being hired at places like that. I'll report back how things go and what advice CSO gives me to spin things. In my brief discussion with my CSO he said it's more about repackaging yourself as what your PI stuff gave you in terms of skills and how they'd transfer in private practice. Also I'll be at a government agency for my 1L job so I'll see how that affects things.

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Re: Northwestern Students Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby cactuarX3 » Thu Mar 08, 2012 9:52 pm

crumpetsandtea wrote:What if your honest response is "I want moniez so I don't end up a bum on the street"?


Ehhhh, I'm not so sure honesty is the best course of action here. I think it's already understood among top law firms that the $$$ is good, but it might be risky to bring that up as a reason you want to do biglaw.

I think it's already understood that people aren't, let's say, telling the whole truth, about their reasons and say things like "quality of work", "good experience", etc. so I think it's a bigger risk to try to be honest about your money aspirations. I'd say you're better off just taking part in this web of deceit that is job recruiting than trying to stand out by being "honest".

After all, did anyone ever write about $$$ in their personal statements to law school and get in?

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Flips88
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Re: Northwestern Students Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Flips88 » Thu Mar 08, 2012 10:06 pm

cactuarX3 wrote:
crumpetsandtea wrote:What if your honest response is "I want moniez so I don't end up a bum on the street"?


Ehhhh, I'm not so sure honesty is the best course of action here. I think it's already understood among top law firms that the $$$ is good, but it might be risky to bring that up as a reason you want to do biglaw.

I think it's already understood that people aren't, let's say, telling the whole truth, about their reasons and say things like "quality of work", "good experience", etc. so I think it's a bigger risk to try to be honest about your money aspirations. I'd say you're better off just taking part in this web of deceit that is job recruiting than trying to stand out by being "honest".

After all, did anyone ever write about $$$ in their personal statements to law school and get in?

I'm just pointing out that while I have not gone through OCI, the posters before me are 2Ls that have, so I'd take their advice over a 0L's.

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homestyle28
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Re: Northwestern Students Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby homestyle28 » Thu Mar 08, 2012 10:34 pm

First, it always makes me happy when this thread comes alive.

Second, while I know we can't report grades from summer practicum courses for OCI purposes, is true for all summer classes? In other words if I take BA this summer and crush it (as surely I will!) does that count at callbacks?

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Re: Northwestern Students Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby 09042014 » Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:01 pm

homestyle28 wrote:First, it always makes me happy when this thread comes alive.

Second, while I know we can't report grades from summer practicum courses for OCI purposes, is true for all summer classes? In other words if I take BA this summer and crush it (as surely I will!) does that count at callbacks?


Is there a rule about the practum courses? Grades don't come out until well after OCI. At that point most people are done with OCI. But if you have late callbacks it might make a difference.

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homestyle28
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Re: Northwestern Students Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby homestyle28 » Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:14 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
homestyle28 wrote:First, it always makes me happy when this thread comes alive.

Second, while I know we can't report grades from summer practicum courses for OCI purposes, is true for all summer classes? In other words if I take BA this summer and crush it (as surely I will!) does that count at callbacks?


Is there a rule about the practum courses? Grades don't come out until well after OCI. At that point most people are done with OCI. But if you have late callbacks it might make a difference.


I thought it was a rule, it might just be a reality I guess...I'll just tell the firms I crushed it then...I have an honest face so they're sure to take my word for it.

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Re: Northwestern Students Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby 09042014 » Fri Mar 09, 2012 12:37 am

homestyle28 wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
homestyle28 wrote:First, it always makes me happy when this thread comes alive.

Second, while I know we can't report grades from summer practicum courses for OCI purposes, is true for all summer classes? In other words if I take BA this summer and crush it (as surely I will!) does that count at callbacks?


Is there a rule about the practum courses? Grades don't come out until well after OCI. At that point most people are done with OCI. But if you have late callbacks it might make a difference.


I thought it was a rule, it might just be a reality I guess...I'll just tell the firms I crushed it then...I have an honest face so they're sure to take my word for it.


I recommend Intellectual Capital Management with Prof. Francis, if it's under 40 people.

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cactuarX3
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Re: Northwestern Students Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby cactuarX3 » Fri Mar 09, 2012 5:27 am

I was actually wondering how much of an impact NU's Plan 2008 has had on the legal education there. From reading about it, it seems like they want to emphasize quantitative skills, teamwork, strategic decision-making and project management and leadership. I was wondering how they were achieving the goal of teaching these skills to students, how successful they've been in doing that and whether or not current students think it's a good idea that increases job prospects.

Any current students with an opinion on this? Thanks guys!

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Samara
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Re: Northwestern Students Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Samara » Fri Mar 09, 2012 11:47 am

I'm doing a visit on later this month on a Tuesday and will sit in on a class. I was thinking about Environmental Law with Barsa since I have an area of interest that fits under that umbrella. But is there a class that would be better to do?

Other classes in that time slot are

Business Assoc. with Reed (DF mentioned this class a few posts back)
Civil Procedure II with Redish
Corporate Finance with Black
Estates & Trusts with Schanzenbach

Or something else, full schedule here.

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Re: Northwestern Students Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby D-hops » Fri Mar 09, 2012 12:30 pm

Samara wrote:I'm doing a visit on later this month on a Tuesday and will sit in on a class. I was thinking about Environmental Law with Barsa since I have an area of interest that fits under that umbrella. But is there a class that would be better to do?

Other classes in that time slot are

Business Assoc. with Reed (DF mentioned this class a few posts back)
Civil Procedure II with Redish
Corporate Finance with Black
Estates & Trusts with Schanzenbach

Or something else, full schedule here.


Barsa is terrific and he is a really good professor to sit in on a class because he teaches in a very easy to understand way. Reed is great too and is pretty funny but I didn't have him for BA so I don't know how he teaches that class. Redish's class is a gunner class and might be a little difficult to understand as a 0L because it builds on civ pro I. I would not recommend attending any class with Black. Don't know anything about estates and trusts.

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Eugenie Danglars
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Re: Northwestern Students Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Eugenie Danglars » Fri Mar 09, 2012 12:39 pm

Redish is great, but you'll not be able to follow the subject material. I'm in the class, and I'm not really keeping up. ;-)

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bk1
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Re: Northwestern Students Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby bk1 » Fri Mar 09, 2012 12:44 pm

Samara wrote:I'm doing a visit on later this month on a Tuesday and will sit in on a class. I was thinking about Environmental Law with Barsa since I have an area of interest that fits under that umbrella. But is there a class that would be better to do?

Other classes in that time slot are

Business Assoc. with Reed (DF mentioned this class a few posts back)
Civil Procedure II with Redish
Corporate Finance with Black
Estates & Trusts with Schanzenbach

Or something else, full schedule here.


I have BA with Reed on Tuesday. He is hilarious and easily the best professor I've had so far. Would definitely recommend that one. Don't know about the others.

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Samara
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Re: Northwestern Students Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Samara » Fri Mar 09, 2012 4:14 pm

Thanks! Looks like I'll stick with Enviro, but maybe try to catch some of BA also. I don't know if we're supposed to stay for the whole class or only a few minutes or what.

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D-hops
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Re: Northwestern Students Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby D-hops » Fri Mar 09, 2012 4:24 pm

Samara wrote:Thanks! Looks like I'll stick with Enviro, but maybe try to catch some of BA also. I don't know if we're supposed to stay for the whole class or only a few minutes or what.


You should probably just stay in the class for the full 55 minutes. It would be slightly disruptive to leave in the middle and Barsa does a good bit to make the classes interesting anyway. I guess I'll see you in Enviro.

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Samara
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Re: Northwestern Students Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Samara » Fri Mar 09, 2012 4:26 pm

D-hops wrote:
Samara wrote:Thanks! Looks like I'll stick with Enviro, but maybe try to catch some of BA also. I don't know if we're supposed to stay for the whole class or only a few minutes or what.


You should probably just stay in the class for the full 55 minutes. It would be slightly disruptive to leave in the middle and Barsa does a good bit to make the classes interesting anyway. I guess I'll see you in Enviro.

Oh, okay. I'm used to huge classes at my UG where you could sit in the back and no one would notice if you left in the middle.

I guess I'll see you there then. I'll be the guy you don't recognize and looks totally lost, haha.

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Re: Northwestern Students Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby bdubs » Fri Mar 09, 2012 6:09 pm

Samara wrote:
D-hops wrote:
Samara wrote:Thanks! Looks like I'll stick with Enviro, but maybe try to catch some of BA also. I don't know if we're supposed to stay for the whole class or only a few minutes or what.


You should probably just stay in the class for the full 55 minutes. It would be slightly disruptive to leave in the middle and Barsa does a good bit to make the classes interesting anyway. I guess I'll see you in Enviro.

Oh, okay. I'm used to huge classes at my UG where you could sit in the back and no one would notice if you left in the middle.

I guess I'll see you there then. I'll be the guy you don't recognize and looks totally lost, haha.


You can't leave the classroom that enviro is in without walking directly by where the professor lectures from. They are horribly designed classrooms overall, but they look nice when visitors come through.

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bk1
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Re: Northwestern Students Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby bk1 » Fri Mar 09, 2012 6:12 pm

+1 that I would refrain from leaving in the middle of the class if it's not necessary.

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rinkrat19
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Re: Northwestern Students Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby rinkrat19 » Fri Mar 09, 2012 6:13 pm

bdubs wrote:
Samara wrote:
D-hops wrote:
Samara wrote:Thanks! Looks like I'll stick with Enviro, but maybe try to catch some of BA also. I don't know if we're supposed to stay for the whole class or only a few minutes or what.


You should probably just stay in the class for the full 55 minutes. It would be slightly disruptive to leave in the middle and Barsa does a good bit to make the classes interesting anyway. I guess I'll see you in Enviro.

Oh, okay. I'm used to huge classes at my UG where you could sit in the back and no one would notice if you left in the middle.

I guess I'll see you there then. I'll be the guy you don't recognize and looks totally lost, haha.


You can't leave the classroom that enviro is in without walking directly by where the professor lectures from. They are horribly designed classrooms overall, but they look nice when visitors come through.
Are these the classrooms sorta near the courtroom in Rubloff? I remember from sitting in on a class at ASW that it was totally disruptive when someone came in late. But the classroom itself seemed nice. What else is badly designed about it?

bdubs
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Re: Northwestern Students Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby bdubs » Fri Mar 09, 2012 6:16 pm

rinkrat19 wrote:
bdubs wrote:You can't leave the classroom that enviro is in without walking directly by where the professor lectures from. They are horribly designed classrooms overall, but they look nice when visitors come through.
Are these the classrooms sorta near the courtroom in Rubloff? I remember from sitting in on a class at ASW that it was totally disruptive when someone came in late. But the classroom itself seemed nice. What else is badly designed about it?


You're right about which classrooms they are. Those classrooms have terrible acoustics, so it's hard to hear the professor or other students from across the room if they don't speak very loudly. They tried to solve it by putting microphones everywhere, but that basically only picks up keyboard noises from everyone taking notes.

I heard a facilities guy say that a number of professors refuse to teach classes in them.




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