Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
User avatar
traehekat
Posts: 3195
Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 4:00 pm

Re: Northwestern Students Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby traehekat » Sun Jul 17, 2011 10:35 pm

Bumi wrote:
traehekat wrote:Can anyone help me with NU's grading scale? Obviously its hilariously inflated, but this is what I'm getting:

3.67 is at minimum 25% and at maximum 37%
4.00 is at minimum 15% and at maximum 22%

Anyone know what median is for 1Ls? Trying to figure out how to bid as a transfer and figure out if its even possible to do it with any rhyme or reason. I'm just going to consider myself somewhere between top third and median for bidding purposes, I think.

You think between 15% and 22% of the class has a 4.0? Uh, I don't think so. For any given curved class, between 15% and 22% get As, but the same people don't rank the same in every class, so that brings GPAs toward the median.

Check this out: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 0#p2422291

And I'd expect 1L grades to be a bit lower.


Ah yeah, that's right. I was looking at this:

http://www.law.northwestern.edu/academics/grading_policy.html

Anyway, based on your link it looks like 3.65 is top 41% for 2010? No breakdowns for 10%, 25%? Still inflated, though (3.67 at my old school is good for 12.5%).

rayiner wrote:After 1L, these are good guideposts:

3.9 - top 5% (probably a bit better)
3.8 - top 10% (probably just outside)
3.7 - top 20%
3.6 - top 30%
3.5 - top 40% (probably a bit better)
3.35 - median


Ty. I dunno if this is consistent with the link from Bumi tho so Im still a bit confused.

User avatar
D-hops
Posts: 688
Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2010 5:48 pm

Re: Northwestern Students Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby D-hops » Mon Jul 18, 2011 7:57 am

traehekat wrote:
Bumi wrote:
traehekat wrote:Can anyone help me with NU's grading scale? Obviously its hilariously inflated, but this is what I'm getting:

3.67 is at minimum 25% and at maximum 37%
4.00 is at minimum 15% and at maximum 22%

Anyone know what median is for 1Ls? Trying to figure out how to bid as a transfer and figure out if its even possible to do it with any rhyme or reason. I'm just going to consider myself somewhere between top third and median for bidding purposes, I think.

You think between 15% and 22% of the class has a 4.0? Uh, I don't think so. For any given curved class, between 15% and 22% get As, but the same people don't rank the same in every class, so that brings GPAs toward the median.

Check this out: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=86361&start=200#p2422291

And I'd expect 1L grades to be a bit lower.


Ah yeah, that's right. I was looking at this:

http://www.law.northwestern.edu/academics/grading_policy.html

Anyway, based on your link it looks like 3.65 is top 41% for 2010? No breakdowns for 10%, 25%? Still inflated, though (3.67 at my old school is good for 12.5%).

rayiner wrote:After 1L, these are good guideposts:

3.9 - top 5% (probably a bit better)
3.8 - top 10% (probably just outside)
3.7 - top 20%
3.6 - top 30%
3.5 - top 40% (probably a bit better)
3.35 - median


Ty. I dunno if this is consistent with the link from Bumi tho so Im still a bit confused.


Bumi's link was for GPAs and class rank at graduation. GPAs will be inflated at graduation compared to after 1L because there is a lot more grade inflation after 1L as a result of uncurved classes. During 1L all of your core classes will be curved, plus your CLR class will probably fall pretty close to the curve (some profs even graded lower than the curve). You will have 2 electives that can be uncurved but that is not always the case. So, Rayiner's numbers are good for after 1L but the grades skew higher once you start adding a lot more uncurved classes.

User avatar
rayiner
Posts: 6184
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:43 am

Re: Northwestern Students Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby rayiner » Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:29 pm

traehekat wrote:
Bumi wrote:
traehekat wrote:Can anyone help me with NU's grading scale? Obviously its hilariously inflated, but this is what I'm getting:

3.67 is at minimum 25% and at maximum 37%
4.00 is at minimum 15% and at maximum 22%

Anyone know what median is for 1Ls? Trying to figure out how to bid as a transfer and figure out if its even possible to do it with any rhyme or reason. I'm just going to consider myself somewhere between top third and median for bidding purposes, I think.

You think between 15% and 22% of the class has a 4.0? Uh, I don't think so. For any given curved class, between 15% and 22% get As, but the same people don't rank the same in every class, so that brings GPAs toward the median.

Check this out: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=86361&start=200#p2422291

And I'd expect 1L grades to be a bit lower.


Ah yeah, that's right. I was looking at this:

http://www.law.northwestern.edu/academics/grading_policy.html

Anyway, based on your link it looks like 3.65 is top 41% for 2010? No breakdowns for 10%, 25%? Still inflated, though (3.67 at my old school is good for 12.5%).

rayiner wrote:After 1L, these are good guideposts:

3.9 - top 5% (probably a bit better)
3.8 - top 10% (probably just outside)
3.7 - top 20%
3.6 - top 30%
3.5 - top 40% (probably a bit better)
3.35 - median


Ty. I dunno if this is consistent with the link from Bumi tho so Im still a bit confused.


Mine are after 1L. Bumi's are graduation honors.

At graduation, top 10% (Coif) seems to be a hair under 3.9. 3.97 (magna) is around top 3%.

Bumi
Posts: 947
Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2010 4:57 pm

Re: Northwestern Students Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Bumi » Mon Jul 18, 2011 3:39 pm

Thanks for swooping in with the pertinent info, Rayiner. I knew my numbers were higher than the 1Ls would be, but I wasn't sure how much higher.

User avatar
rayiner
Posts: 6184
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:43 am

Re: Northwestern Students Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby rayiner » Mon Jul 18, 2011 4:23 pm

Bumi wrote:Thanks for swooping in with the pertinent info, Rayiner. I knew my numbers were higher than the 1Ls would be, but I wasn't sure how much higher.


It's okay, employers don't know either. In practice, someone with a 3.8 will be treated as top 10%, someone with a 3.7 as top 20%, etc.

Moo_NW
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2011 6:03 pm

Re: Northwestern Students Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Moo_NW » Mon Jul 18, 2011 9:59 pm

Holly Golightly wrote:Most of the people I know with firm jobs got them through connections; unless you have something basically set up before you start, I would not count on getting a firm job 1L summer.

However, with government/PI/judicial externships, though, it's not like you're going to starve. You can either get a grant or loans, depending on which route you take. I could have worked a firm job that I had set up from my previous life but instead decided to do an unpaid government internship, take out loans, and get credits for it.


Thanks. What kinds of government/PI/judicial externships are 1L's can realistically hope to get? What are the qualifications they are looking for (i.e. is it the top of the class thing or a connections thing or something else?)

What would be the most interesting (intellectually/lawyerly) way to spend the summer as a 1L?

Um.. what's "government"?

LogosEther
Posts: 123
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2009 2:43 am

Re: Northwestern Students Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby LogosEther » Tue Jul 19, 2011 11:20 pm

Any NU students know if there is are websites for professor ratings/reviews and/or past course grade distributions? I'm trying to figure out my courses for this upcoming semester. Reply/PM with the info would be much appreciated. Thanks!

Bumi
Posts: 947
Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2010 4:57 pm

Re: Northwestern Students Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Bumi » Wed Jul 20, 2011 9:42 am

LogosEther wrote:Any NU students know if there is are websites for professor ratings/reviews and/or past course grade distributions? I'm trying to figure out my courses for this upcoming semester. Reply/PM with the info would be much appreciated. Thanks!


0L here, but can't you see the course/prof reviews right in Caesar?

User avatar
EarlCat
Posts: 610
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2007 4:04 pm

Re: Northwestern Students Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby EarlCat » Thu Jul 21, 2011 10:54 am

Obviously 1L grade distribution will be different than that for graduates, but maybe it'll give an idea. Looking at the 2011 honors list, this year 21 people graduated magna cum laude (3.97+). That's around 7-8%.*

124 got cum laude (3.65+). Combined with magna, that's 53-54%.

Nobody got suma cum laude (4.2+).

* I'm assuming the graduating JD/AJD/JDMBA class was around 270, which I think is close.
Last edited by EarlCat on Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
EarlCat
Posts: 610
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2007 4:04 pm

Re: Northwestern Students Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby EarlCat » Thu Jul 21, 2011 10:58 am

LogosEther wrote:Any NU students know if there is are websites for professor ratings/reviews and/or past course grade distributions? I'm trying to figure out my courses for this upcoming semester. Reply/PM with the info would be much appreciated. Thanks!

Some professors release their grade distributions. Otherwise it's all kept it super secret. If you talk to enough people you can get a feel for who is a really harsh grader (Hughes), and who isn't so tough (mostly clinic profs and seminar profs).

User avatar
bjsesq
TLS Poet Laureate
Posts: 13383
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2010 3:02 am

Re: Northwestern Students Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby bjsesq » Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:06 am

EarlCat wrote:
LogosEther wrote:Any NU students know if there is are websites for professor ratings/reviews and/or past course grade distributions? I'm trying to figure out my courses for this upcoming semester. Reply/PM with the info would be much appreciated. Thanks!

Some professors release their grade distributions. Otherwise it's all kept it super secret. If you talk to enough people you can get a feel for who is a really harsh grader (Hughes), and who isn't so tough (mostly clinic profs and seminar profs).


Hughes is not a harsh grader. My 14th class had a lot more people above median than it did at or below. 1 B out of 30 some people.

09042014
Posts: 18280
Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 10:47 pm

Re: Northwestern Students Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby 09042014 » Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:47 am

EarlCat wrote:Obviously 1L grade distribution will be different than that for graduates, but maybe it'll give an idea. Looking at the 2011 honors list, this year 21 people graduated magna cum laude (3.97+). That's around 7-8%.*

124 got cum laude (3.65+). Combined with magna, that's 53-54%.

Nobody got suma cum laude (4.2+).

* I'm assuming the graduating JD/AJD/JDMBA class was around 270, which I think is close.



The graduating class has got to be more like 300 than 270. In 1L you start with 260. Add in transfers and AJD (~60), and subtract for attrition.

User avatar
rayiner
Posts: 6184
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:43 am

Re: Northwestern Students Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby rayiner » Thu Jul 21, 2011 12:37 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
EarlCat wrote:Obviously 1L grade distribution will be different than that for graduates, but maybe it'll give an idea. Looking at the 2011 honors list, this year 21 people graduated magna cum laude (3.97+). That's around 7-8%.*

124 got cum laude (3.65+). Combined with magna, that's 53-54%.

Nobody got suma cum laude (4.2+).

* I'm assuming the graduating JD/AJD/JDMBA class was around 270, which I think is close.



The graduating class has got to be more like 300 than 270. In 1L you start with 260. Add in transfers and AJD (~60), and subtract for attrition.


Count the # of Coif graduates (29) and multiply by 10 to get total graduates. So 21 magna is ~ 7%.

In any case, those are huge numbers for c/o 2011. A lot of 3L gunning because of the economy? The usual # of magna graduates is 10-11 out of 270 (4%).

Also, these numbers are completely misleading for 1Ls. The 1L median mathematically cannot be significantly higher than 3.4 and should float between 3.2 - 3.4.

splitmuch
Posts: 968
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:27 pm

Re: Northwestern Students Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby splitmuch » Thu Jul 21, 2011 12:40 pm

rayiner wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
EarlCat wrote:Obviously 1L grade distribution will be different than that for graduates, but maybe it'll give an idea. Looking at the 2011 honors list, this year 21 people graduated magna cum laude (3.97+). That's around 7-8%.*

124 got cum laude (3.65+). Combined with magna, that's 53-54%.

Nobody got suma cum laude (4.2+).

* I'm assuming the graduating JD/AJD/JDMBA class was around 270, which I think is close.



The graduating class has got to be more like 300 than 270. In 1L you start with 260. Add in transfers and AJD (~60), and subtract for attrition.


Count the # of Coif graduates (29) and multiply by 10 to get total graduates. So 21 magna is ~ 7%.

In any case, those are huge numbers for c/o 2011. A lot of 3L gunning because of the economy? The usual # of magna graduates is 10-11 out of 270 (4%).


Don't a few people who get top 10% not get coif?

09042014
Posts: 18280
Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 10:47 pm

Re: Northwestern Students Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby 09042014 » Thu Jul 21, 2011 12:47 pm

rayiner wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
EarlCat wrote:Obviously 1L grade distribution will be different than that for graduates, but maybe it'll give an idea. Looking at the 2011 honors list, this year 21 people graduated magna cum laude (3.97+). That's around 7-8%.*

124 got cum laude (3.65+). Combined with magna, that's 53-54%.

Nobody got suma cum laude (4.2+).

* I'm assuming the graduating JD/AJD/JDMBA class was around 270, which I think is close.



The graduating class has got to be more like 300 than 270. In 1L you start with 260. Add in transfers and AJD (~60), and subtract for attrition.


Count the # of Coif graduates (29) and multiply by 10 to get total graduates. So 21 magna is ~ 7%.

In any case, those are huge numbers for c/o 2011. A lot of 3L gunning because of the economy? The usual # of magna graduates is 10-11 out of 270 (4%).

Also, these numbers are completely misleading for 1Ls. The 1L median mathematically cannot be significantly higher than 3.4 and should float between 3.2 - 3.4.



It's pretty insane that median floats from probably 3.35 (a high guess) to a 3.65 only after 2/3L. You are talking about median 2/3L being over an A- at that point.

I wonder if professors are less likely to give bad grades because they know so many are gunning for jobs even after 1L.

User avatar
EarlCat
Posts: 610
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2007 4:04 pm

Re: Northwestern Students Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby EarlCat » Thu Jul 21, 2011 4:44 pm

bjsesq wrote:Hughes is not a harsh grader. My 14th class had a lot more people above median than it did at or below. 1 B out of 30 some people.

Anomaly. She's got a several-years long reputation of being a harsh grader. When I took her for immigration, the distro she sent out after the test was skewed way down. In whatever she was teaching last fall she gave not one but two Cs, and she gave someone in one of the classes ahead of me a D. Hughes=harsh.

Desert Fox wrote:Add in transfers and AJD (~60), and subtract for attrition.

I think we had less than 30 AJDs, but I have no idea how many transfers in or out.
Last edited by EarlCat on Thu Jul 21, 2011 4:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

09042014
Posts: 18280
Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 10:47 pm

Re: Northwestern Students Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby 09042014 » Thu Jul 21, 2011 4:45 pm

Can we create a list of easy graders, and a list of harsh graders? I'll start: Copy the list and add, so it is all together.

Easy:
Stilt
Francis - his test are hard as fuck, but still really easy grader.

Harsh:
Hughes?

User avatar
rayiner
Posts: 6184
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:43 am

Re: Northwestern Students Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby rayiner » Thu Jul 21, 2011 4:57 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
rayiner wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
EarlCat wrote:Obviously 1L grade distribution will be different than that for graduates, but maybe it'll give an idea. Looking at the 2011 honors list, this year 21 people graduated magna cum laude (3.97+). That's around 7-8%.*

124 got cum laude (3.65+). Combined with magna, that's 53-54%.

Nobody got suma cum laude (4.2+).

* I'm assuming the graduating JD/AJD/JDMBA class was around 270, which I think is close.



The graduating class has got to be more like 300 than 270. In 1L you start with 260. Add in transfers and AJD (~60), and subtract for attrition.


Count the # of Coif graduates (29) and multiply by 10 to get total graduates. So 21 magna is ~ 7%.

In any case, those are huge numbers for c/o 2011. A lot of 3L gunning because of the economy? The usual # of magna graduates is 10-11 out of 270 (4%).

Also, these numbers are completely misleading for 1Ls. The 1L median mathematically cannot be significantly higher than 3.4 and should float between 3.2 - 3.4.



It's pretty insane that median floats from probably 3.35 (a high guess) to a 3.65 only after 2/3L. You are talking about median 2/3L being over an A- at that point.

I wonder if professors are less likely to give bad grades because they know so many are gunning for jobs even after 1L.


The 2011 numbers are pretty abberational. Typically, magna + cum laude is around 40% of the class. A graduation median above 3.65 is insane, that means 2L/3L median was 3.7 or so.

Actually, that's not that unbelievable. ITP is like 4 credits of guaranteed A for everyone. Clinic is another 4-8 credits of A. Research with a professor is another 4-8 credits of A, etc. You can easily load up on these classes and boost your GPA.

Bumi
Posts: 947
Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2010 4:57 pm

Re: Northwestern Students Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Bumi » Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:20 pm

rayiner wrote:Actually, that's not that unbelievable. ITP is like 4 credits of guaranteed A for everyone. Clinic is another 4-8 credits of A. Research with a professor is another 4-8 credits of A, etc. You can easily load up on these classes and boost your GPA.
Desert Fox wrote:Can we create a list of easy graders, and a list of harsh graders? I'll start: Copy the list and add, so it is all together.

Easy:
Stilt
Francis - his test are hard as fuck, but still really easy grader.

Harsh:
Hughes?

I love you guys.

09042014
Posts: 18280
Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 10:47 pm

Re: Northwestern Students Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby 09042014 » Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:24 pm

Can we create a list of easy graders, and a list of harsh graders? I'll start: Copy the list and add, so it is all together.

Easy:
Stilt
Francis - his test are hard as fuck, but still really easy grader.
Speta
Demato

Suspected easy:
Eigen

Harsh:
Hughes?
McGinnis

splitmuch
Posts: 968
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:27 pm

Re: Northwestern Students Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby splitmuch » Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:31 pm

Desert Fox wrote:Can we create a list of easy graders, and a list of harsh graders? I'll start: Copy the list and add, so it is all together.

Easy:
Stilt
Francis - his test are hard as fuck, but still really easy grader.
Speta
Demato

Suspected easy:
Eigen

Harsh:
Hughes?
McGinnis


Is Francis a property teacher? I sat in a class on the last day of the semester and he was talking about the final, essentially said it was gonna seem really hard but that he will grade it reasonably. Also was a really funny guy.

09042014
Posts: 18280
Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 10:47 pm

Re: Northwestern Students Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby 09042014 » Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:32 pm

splitmuch wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:Can we create a list of easy graders, and a list of harsh graders? I'll start: Copy the list and add, so it is all together.

Easy:
Stilt
Francis - his test are hard as fuck, but still really easy grader.
Speta
Demato

Suspected easy:
Eigen

Harsh:
Hughes?
McGinnis


Is Francis a property teacher? I sat in a class on the last day of the semester and he was talking about the final, essentially said it was gonna seem really hard but that he will grade it reasonably. Also was a really funny guy.


He taught Intellectual Property last spring.

How easy your prof is for 1L core classes doesn't matter, since they are curved.
Last edited by 09042014 on Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

splitmuch
Posts: 968
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:27 pm

Re: Northwestern Students Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby splitmuch » Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:33 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
splitmuch wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:Can we create a list of easy graders, and a list of harsh graders? I'll start: Copy the list and add, so it is all together.

Easy:
Stilt
Francis - his test are hard as fuck, but still really easy grader.
Speta
Demato

Suspected easy:
Eigen

Harsh:
Hughes?
McGinnis


Is Francis a property teacher? I sat in a class on the last day of the semester and he was talking about the final, essentially said it was gonna seem really hard but that he will grade it reasonably. Also was a really funny guy.


He taught Intellectual Property last spring.

different guy then

User avatar
D-hops
Posts: 688
Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2010 5:48 pm

Re: Northwestern Students Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby D-hops » Thu Jul 21, 2011 10:13 pm

Desert Fox wrote:Can we create a list of easy graders, and a list of harsh graders? I'll start: Copy the list and add, so it is all together.

Easy:
Stilt
Francis - his test are hard as fuck, but still really easy grader.
Speta
Demato

Suspected easy:
Eigen

Harsh:
Hughes?
McGinnis


Speta might maximize the curve (not entirely sure), but pretty much all of his classes end up being curved, so there is only so much he can do.

LogosEther
Posts: 123
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2009 2:43 am

Re: Northwestern Students Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby LogosEther » Fri Jul 22, 2011 12:02 am

Desert Fox wrote:Can we create a list of easy graders, and a list of harsh graders? I'll start: Copy the list and add, so it is all together.

Easy:
Stilt
Francis - his test are hard as fuck, but still really easy grader.
Speta
Demato

Suspected easy:
Eigen

Harsh:
Hughes?
McGinnis



This is helpful already. For sure.




Return to “Ask a Law Student / Graduate”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Baidu [Spider], Supersplitteriknow, wmbuff and 2 guests