Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
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MT Cicero

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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby MT Cicero » Tue Dec 12, 2017 12:26 pm

carsondalywashere wrote:
Mullens wrote:
carsondalywashere wrote:When do grades come back? All I know is that they are released in January.


It’s usually something like the second Friday of classes in January. You can go back through this thread and find past dates. As soon as exams end, just try to forget about them and move on. The waiting can make you go crazy if you fixate at all.

Would like to know if I need to drop out before next semseter :lol:


All joking aside, I just want to make sure I have time to drop classes if need be


Yeah, it'll go "first week of 2nd semester...grades release that Friday (typically)...second week of semester (where add/drop is still available for most classes)."

So there's usually some shifting at that point for people trying to game as best they can to reflect their grade reality. Then annoyance when they feel that gaming let them down in June when they say, "why didn't I just stay in [class X]" when their friends all loved their professor from the class you dropped, and you end up with the grade you tried to avoid anyway from the class you joined (which you only marginally liked).

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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby RedPurpleBlue » Tue Dec 12, 2017 4:57 pm

carsondalywashere wrote:
Mullens wrote:
carsondalywashere wrote:When do grades come back? All I know is that they are released in January.


It’s usually something like the second Friday of classes in January. You can go back through this thread and find past dates. As soon as exams end, just try to forget about them and move on. The waiting can make you go crazy if you fixate at all.

Would like to know if I need to drop out before next semseter :lol:


All joking aside, I just want to make sure I have time to drop classes if need be


Why would you drop? Unless you hate law school, a semester of bad grades should be very doable to overcome before OCI. Like 68.6% of graduates landed either biglaw or a federal clerkship last year, and 10% of the cohort is JD-MBA so probably half of those students are going to opt for business jobs (6.8%), some never intended on doing biglaw and only wanted PI/Gov't work (9.6%), and a couple people look like they tried for academia (0.8%). Some kids got state clerkships (1.6%), but I would guess most of those are state supreme court clerkships, which are pretty much equivalent to D. Ct. clerkships. 5.2% ended at firms that are 250 or less, but you have to remember some of those are top notch boutiques. Only 7.2% of graduates ended up unemployed or in short-term/part-time positions 9 months out. When you combine that number with maybe the 2.5% of the 5.2% that ended at <250 firms that would be objectively undesirable and maybe 1-2% of the 9.6% doing PI/Gov't work out of necessity, you get ~11-12% of the class ending up in positions they didn't want. If we were to pretend those were also the students with the lowest grades (probably aren't), then that would mean you could be just above the bottom 10% of the class and likely land a job you want. I'd call that pretty damn good. Probably the biggest part in not landing in that 11-12% is to (1) bid reasonably at OCI (bidding exclusively DC with a 3.5 is a terrible idea) (2) do interview prep and (3) network as much as physically possible during the summer. If you do all those things, you probably lower that 11-12% chance across the entire class to a 0-5% chance for you as an individual to strike out even with awful grades.

You people need to chill out. I'm a fellow 1L, and you all are driving me nuts. Study, take your exams, and forget about them. Regardless of the results, you're going to be fine. Even if you don't feel fine, you have all next semester to improve your GPA and the entire summer to prep for OCI.

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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby IExistedOnceBefore » Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:45 pm

MT Cicero wrote:
carsondalywashere wrote:
Mullens wrote:
carsondalywashere wrote:When do grades come back? All I know is that they are released in January.


It’s usually something like the second Friday of classes in January. You can go back through this thread and find past dates. As soon as exams end, just try to forget about them and move on. The waiting can make you go crazy if you fixate at all.

Would like to know if I need to drop out before next semseter :lol:


All joking aside, I just want to make sure I have time to drop classes if need be


Yeah, it'll go "first week of 2nd semester...grades release that Friday (typically)...second week of semester (where add/drop is still available for most classes)."

So there's usually some shifting at that point for people trying to game as best they can to reflect their grade reality. Then annoyance when they feel that gaming let them down in June when they say, "why didn't I just stay in [class X]" when their friends all loved their professor from the class you dropped, and you end up with the grade you tried to avoid anyway from the class you joined (which you only marginally liked).


Also this year there's a mandatory curve for all classes, there's a lot less ability to game the system and all the 2Ls/3Ls you would ask for easy classes really have no idea how things will fall because all the historical information on that plays heavily into the "no curve" concept.

I agree. Take classes you're excited about and enjoy, there's not really a way to move around classes to mitigate risk this time around.

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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby carsondalywashere » Tue Dec 12, 2017 8:14 pm

IExistedOnceBefore wrote:
MT Cicero wrote:
carsondalywashere wrote:
Mullens wrote:
carsondalywashere wrote:When do grades come back? All I know is that they are released in January.


It’s usually something like the second Friday of classes in January. You can go back through this thread and find past dates. As soon as exams end, just try to forget about them and move on. The waiting can make you go crazy if you fixate at all.

Would like to know if I need to drop out before next semseter :lol:


All joking aside, I just want to make sure I have time to drop classes if need be


Yeah, it'll go "first week of 2nd semester...grades release that Friday (typically)...second week of semester (where add/drop is still available for most classes)."

So there's usually some shifting at that point for people trying to game as best they can to reflect their grade reality. Then annoyance when they feel that gaming let them down in June when they say, "why didn't I just stay in [class X]" when their friends all loved their professor from the class you dropped, and you end up with the grade you tried to avoid anyway from the class you joined (which you only marginally liked).


Also this year there's a mandatory curve for all classes, there's a lot less ability to game the system and all the 2Ls/3Ls you would ask for easy classes really have no idea how things will fall because all the historical information on that plays heavily into the "no curve" concept.

I agree. Take classes you're excited about and enjoy, there's not really a way to move around classes to mitigate risk this time around.


Good points, and will keep this in mind moving forward

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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby carsondalywashere » Tue Dec 12, 2017 8:15 pm

RedPurpleBlue wrote:
carsondalywashere wrote:
Mullens wrote:
carsondalywashere wrote:When do grades come back? All I know is that they are released in January.


It’s usually something like the second Friday of classes in January. You can go back through this thread and find past dates. As soon as exams end, just try to forget about them and move on. The waiting can make you go crazy if you fixate at all.

Would like to know if I need to drop out before next semseter :lol:


All joking aside, I just want to make sure I have time to drop classes if need be


Why would you drop? Unless you hate law school, a semester of bad grades should be very doable to overcome before OCI. Like 68.6% of graduates landed either biglaw or a federal clerkship last year, and 10% of the cohort is JD-MBA so probably half of those students are going to opt for business jobs (6.8%), some never intended on doing biglaw and only wanted PI/Gov't work (9.6%), and a couple people look like they tried for academia (0.8%). Some kids got state clerkships (1.6%), but I would guess most of those are state supreme court clerkships, which are pretty much equivalent to D. Ct. clerkships. 5.2% ended at firms that are 250 or less, but you have to remember some of those are top notch boutiques. Only 7.2% of graduates ended up unemployed or in short-term/part-time positions 9 months out. When you combine that number with maybe the 2.5% of the 5.2% that ended at <250 firms that would be objectively undesirable and maybe 1-2% of the 9.6% doing PI/Gov't work out of necessity, you get ~11-12% of the class ending up in positions they didn't want. If we were to pretend those were also the students with the lowest grades (probably aren't), then that would mean you could be just above the bottom 10% of the class and likely land a job you want. I'd call that pretty damn good. Probably the biggest part in not landing in that 11-12% is to (1) bid reasonably at OCI (bidding exclusively DC with a 3.5 is a terrible idea) (2) do interview prep and (3) network as much as physically possible during the summer. If you do all those things, you probably lower that 11-12% chance across the entire class to a 0-5% chance for you as an individual to strike out even with awful grades.

You people need to chill out. I'm a fellow 1L, and you all are driving me nuts. Study, take your exams, and forget about them. Regardless of the results, you're going to be fine. Even if you don't feel fine, you have all next semester to improve your GPA and the entire summer to prep for OCI.


I was joking haha, but this is a super helpful post for those considering attending Northwestern or are seriously contemplating dropping out!

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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby daisrt » Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:16 pm

carsondalywashere wrote:
Mullens wrote:
carsondalywashere wrote:When do grades come back? All I know is that they are released in January.


It’s usually something like the second Friday of classes in January. You can go back through this thread and find past dates. As soon as exams end, just try to forget about them and move on. The waiting can make you go crazy if you fixate at all.

Would like to know if I need to drop out before next semseter :lol:


All joking aside, I just want to make sure I have time to drop classes if need be

Last year it was on the 13th. And I recall we had some time to drop classes after grades came out!

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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby ghostlyyy » Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:22 am

Hi all! 0L here. I just got into NU ED today and I'm so excited!

I was wondering if anyone could speak to the culture of the law school. I have heard it is more "businesslike" than other T14s. I know that it is also much older than most other T14. I am a K-JD, so I am a bit worried about this aspect. I was just wondering how old is "old," and how this affects the culture of the school. Basically, I am really worried about coming to my first day of class and having people think I am a high schooler. I am also worried about being ostracized or looked down upon because of my age. Also, do all the K-JDs tend to clique together, or is it a more mixed social scene?

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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby RedPurpleBlue » Thu Dec 14, 2017 3:05 am

ghostlyyy wrote:Hi all! 0L here. I just got into NU ED today and I'm so excited!

I was wondering if anyone could speak to the culture of the law school. I have heard it is more "businesslike" than other T14s. I know that it is also much older than most other T14. I am a K-JD, so I am a bit worried about this aspect. I was just wondering how old is "old," and how this affects the culture of the school. Basically, I am really worried about coming to my first day of class and having people think I am a high schooler. I am also worried about being ostracized or looked down upon because of my age. Also, do all the K-JDs tend to clique together, or is it a more mixed social scene?


I'm a 1L and K-JD. I am friends with and know a good few other K-JDs, multiple who even completed their undergrad in 3 years. The consensus among us is that none of us really feel old, and we don't really have a hard time connecting with any of our peers. I've gone out to multiple section outings with people 2, 3, 4, 5+ years older than me, and it's not a problem. Yeah, sometimes they have to miss bar review to watch the kids or get home early to be with their spouse, but other than that they are just normal people looking to have a good time and learn the law. I wouldn't say that there is a K-JD clique. IF there's a clique (and I'm not sure that there is one), then it's 100% the JD-MBA students, not the K-JD students. Also, nobody is going to look down upon you. If anything, some of the older folk are really impressed and think I have my life all together. I don't, but you have to remember a good number of these people are approaching law as a second career and a new lease on life after leaving a career that they thought they wanted but did not like. They might feel like they wasted a couple of years figuring things out. I'm not sure if that's the experience/perception of some of the other K-JDs, but that's my anecdote for you.

Also, congrats! Law school is pretty fun, and I'm sure you'll be a great addition to the community.

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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Gus Fring » Fri Dec 15, 2017 3:00 pm

I feel good about all my exams except that 7 hour take home crim law exam from Len. I don't feel like I learned much in that class due to it being ran like a seminar.

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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby daisrt » Fri Dec 15, 2017 7:03 pm

Gus Fring wrote:I feel good about all my exams except that 7 hour take home crim law exam from Len. I don't feel like I learned much in that class due to it being ran like a seminar.

That's great, congrats! Just don't think about it until grade release. Who knows, Crim might end up being your best grade...

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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby carsondalywashere » Tue Dec 26, 2017 11:43 pm

Any advice/thoughts on the following classes?

Con Law - Calabresi
Torts - Player
Local Gov - Shoked
Law Firm Management - Lutz
Legislation - Nourse

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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby FloridaCoastalorbust » Thu Dec 28, 2017 9:58 am

carsondalywashere wrote:Any advice/thoughts on the following classes?

Con Law - Calabresi
Torts - Player
Local Gov - Shoked
Law Firm Management - Lutz
Legislation - Nourse


Really solid lineup -- interesting classes and great professors (putting aside Player, who's not known as a rockstar, unlike the other four).

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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Kinky John » Thu Dec 28, 2017 11:42 am

FloridaCoastalorbust wrote:
carsondalywashere wrote:Any advice/thoughts on the following classes?

Con Law - Calabresi
Torts - Player
Local Gov - Shoked
Law Firm Management - Lutz
Legislation - Nourse


Really solid lineup -- interesting classes and great professors (putting aside Player, who's not known as a rockstar, unlike the other four).


Calabresi is obviously well-known but I wouldn't call him a great professor. No sense in worrying about Calabresi or Player though, since it's not like you have a choice. Standard advice would be to read through their CTEs and talk to your TAs once classes start. I'd also read through Player's CTEs for healthcare law/whatever other classes she's taught since she's relatively new.

If this is your class list, then you have one too many classes--you still have another semester of CLR. I wouldn't recommend taking 17 credits. If you're choosing between the latter three, I'd just drop whichever sounds the least interesting to you. Or drop whichever looks like the most work. Up to you.
Last edited by Kinky John on Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby carsondalywashere » Thu Dec 28, 2017 6:49 pm

FloridaCoastalorbust wrote:
carsondalywashere wrote:Any advice/thoughts on the following classes?

Con Law - Calabresi
Torts - Player
Local Gov - Shoked
Law Firm Management - Lutz
Legislation - Nourse


Really solid lineup -- interesting classes and great professors (putting aside Player, who's not known as a rockstar, unlike the other four).

Excellent to hear

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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby carsondalywashere » Thu Dec 28, 2017 6:51 pm

Kinky John wrote:
FloridaCoastalorbust wrote:
carsondalywashere wrote:Any advice/thoughts on the following classes?

Con Law - Calabresi
Torts - Player
Local Gov - Shoked
Law Firm Management - Lutz
Legislation - Nourse


Really solid lineup -- interesting classes and great professors (putting aside Player, who's not known as a rockstar, unlike the other four).


Calabresi is obviously well-known but I wouldn't call him a great professor. No sense in worrying about Calabresi or Player though, since it's not like you have a choice. Standard advice would be to read through their CTEs and talk to your TAs once classes start. I'd also read through Player's CTEs for healthcare law/whatever other classes she's taught since she's relatively new.

If this is your class list, then you have one too many classes--you still have another semester of CLR. I wouldn't recommend taking 17 credits. If you're choosing between the latter three, I'd just drop whichever sounds the least interesting to you. Or drop whichever looks like the most work. Up to you.


I'm leaning towards dropping local gov, but I'm going to wait to see my grade in his property class. I am starting to think about dropping law firm management, as I've gone on a couple of interviews and employers' heads have spun when they hear I'm taking that class lol.

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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby FloridaCoastalorbust » Thu Dec 28, 2017 8:45 pm

carsondalywashere wrote:
Kinky John wrote:
FloridaCoastalorbust wrote:
carsondalywashere wrote:Any advice/thoughts on the following classes?

Con Law - Calabresi
Torts - Player
Local Gov - Shoked
Law Firm Management - Lutz
Legislation - Nourse


Really solid lineup -- interesting classes and great professors (putting aside Player, who's not known as a rockstar, unlike the other four).


Calabresi is obviously well-known but I wouldn't call him a great professor. No sense in worrying about Calabresi or Player though, since it's not like you have a choice. Standard advice would be to read through their CTEs and talk to your TAs once classes start. I'd also read through Player's CTEs for healthcare law/whatever other classes she's taught since she's relatively new.

If this is your class list, then you have one too many classes--you still have another semester of CLR. I wouldn't recommend taking 17 credits. If you're choosing between the latter three, I'd just drop whichever sounds the least interesting to you. Or drop whichever looks like the most work. Up to you.


I'm leaning towards dropping local gov, but I'm going to wait to see my grade in his property class. I am starting to think about dropping law firm management, as I've gone on a couple of interviews and employers' heads have spun when they hear I'm taking that class lol.


you can still take it (easy A), just don't mention to employers or judges that you plan on taking it (or if you've already taken it that you've done so). FYI, shoked has publicly acknowledged that he maxes out the curve (which, for non-1L-mandatory courses, maxes out at 3.65), so he's likely to do so in local gov as he's done before.

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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby crumb cake » Sat Dec 30, 2017 3:15 am

Shoked's classes outside of 1L property are a lot different (in a good way).

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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Kenga » Tue Jan 02, 2018 5:52 pm

Can anyone who's taken Redish's CivPro II tell me if you actually need to buy that FRCP book? Westlaw and Lexis both have the full FRCP with advisory committee notes up to 2015.

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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby carsondalywashere » Wed Jan 03, 2018 4:33 pm

Is there any advantage on waiting to submit bids for the MPILCC thingy?

Edit - as in waiting till we get grades back so we can attach them with the app

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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby carsondalywashere » Sat Jan 06, 2018 4:33 pm

carsondalywashere wrote:
FloridaCoastalorbust wrote:
carsondalywashere wrote:Any advice/thoughts on the following classes?

Con Law - Calabresi
Torts - Player
Local Gov - Shoked
Law Firm Management - Lutz
Legislation - Nourse


Really solid lineup -- interesting classes and great professors (putting aside Player, who's not known as a rockstar, unlike the other four).

Excellent to hear

Is there any outside reading which would help? For example, would the Cheminsky supplement help with Con Law?

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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby yyyuppp » Sat Jan 06, 2018 4:57 pm

carsondalywashere wrote:Is there any outside reading which would help? For example, would the Cheminsky supplement help with Con Law?


I used the Chemerinsky supplement for Calabresi's class and found it helpful. Calabresi doesn't teach doctrine as much as he just assigns a ton of cases to read and then lectures about them in sometimes unhelpful ways. so you sorta have to parse that and figure out what the rules are (though its con law, so thats not always super clear anyways). In any case, i think Chemerinsky does a good job of filling in gaps in this respect.

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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby FloridaCoastalorbust » Sat Jan 06, 2018 6:58 pm

yyyuppp wrote:
carsondalywashere wrote:Is there any outside reading which would help? For example, would the Cheminsky supplement help with Con Law?


I used the Chemerinsky supplement for Calabresi's class and found it helpful. Calabresi doesn't teach doctrine as much as he just assigns a ton of cases to read and then lectures about them in sometimes unhelpful ways. so you sorta have to parse that and figure out what the rules are (though its con law, so thats not always super clear anyways). In any case, i think Chemerinsky does a good job of filling in gaps in this respect.


Solid advice. You need to know the rules of cases for the issue spotter, but the lectures aren't great for extracting rules, particularly of 14th Amendment issues. So the Chemerinsky supplement is helpful for that. But other than that it's unnecessary. I might even say it's unnecessary for everything but equal protection/due process analysis.

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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby skatch » Sat Jan 06, 2018 10:07 pm

carsondalywashere wrote:
carsondalywashere wrote:
FloridaCoastalorbust wrote:
carsondalywashere wrote:Any advice/thoughts on the following classes?

Con Law - Calabresi
Torts - Player
Local Gov - Shoked
Law Firm Management - Lutz
Legislation - Nourse


Really solid lineup -- interesting classes and great professors (putting aside Player, who's not known as a rockstar, unlike the other four).

Excellent to hear

Is there any outside reading which would help? For example, would the Cheminsky supplement help with Con Law?


Get the Torts E&E. She explains concepts very similarly to how the E&E does, and even pulls hypos from there sometimes. Torts is also just a subject where having a bunch of little problems to practice writing out answers can be helpful. Unlike with some professors (*cough* Redish) who have very idiosyncratic styles that make supplements unhelpful, Player is totally by-the-book and doesn't often mention her own opinions on the material or deviate from the conventional wisdom about the subject.

Also, as general advice for that class, the notes following the cases in the textbook are a lot more important than the cases themselves.

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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby carsondalywashere » Sun Jan 07, 2018 9:04 pm

Thanks so much posters above! This thread always delivers

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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges

Postby Jlyyep » Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:48 pm

How many 1Ls typically get their summer jobs through Winter OCI? Trying to figure out how to prioritize applying to certain things . . .



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