Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges Forum

[Cobretti]

what can people tell me about:

markell
hoskins
borman
shapo
yuracko

Be prepared to teach yourself torts. And endure vaguely sexist comments. But I've heard good things about yuracko

ugh. well thats fantastic re: torts.

Nah, it's not too bad. Just use the most recent edition of his hornbook. Literally, all you need to know. Order now.

+1, his hornbook lines up perfectly with his lectures. He's the easiest torts professor you can have if you read the hornbook.

[lemons]

who is better to take fed jur with, pfander or redish??

i took con law with redish and I feel like I didn't learn much just because of his teaching style so i'm leaning towards pfander, but i don't know anything about him. does anyone have a syllabus they'd be willing to share?

[itsme123]

Any thoughts on Shapo's Torts and Products Liability class?

[FloridaCoastalorbust]

I'm pretty confused about hornbooks. My understanding is that every doctrinal course has several different hornbooks, but if you're going to buy hornbooks in general, the "best" should be purchased. How can I figure out what the "best" is, particularly for civ pro, crim, property and contracts? I guess I'm wondering if students at NU agree on what the best hornbook is for each 1L course. I definitely want hornbooks but don't want to buy the "wrong" ones for money/efficient studying reasons. Is this something to ask the prof or students who took the prof the previous year? Wait until the syllabus arrives before buying?

ETA: Glannon's Guides are different from hornbooks right?

[zugzwanger]

This is a decent overview:

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... p?t=194417

You don't need to always buy a "hornbook" for every one of those classes and in some cases it won't even really help (I got one for Civ Pro and pretty much never opened it). A lot of true hornbooks are massive and cover topics way outside the scope of the course.

Contracts: I really liked the E&E
Civ Pro: Glannon E&E (must have) + Multiple Choice one a second
Crim: Dressler (just outstanding in every way)
Property: Understanding Property by Sprankling was excellent
Con Law: Chemerinsky

If you really want a hornbook for every class then more power to you, but I think it's going to eat up a ton of time and money and also not help you in the way the above books (some of which are in fact hornbooks like Chemerinsky) will. PM me with questions if you have any.


EDIT: Glannon guide is not a hornbook, it's a magical E&E.

[lemons]

I'm pretty confused about hornbooks. My understanding is that every doctrinal course has several different hornbooks, but if you're going to buy hornbooks in general, the "best" should be purchased. How can I figure out what the "best" is, particularly for civ pro, crim, property and contracts? I guess I'm wondering if students at NU agree on what the best hornbook is for each 1L course. I definitely want hornbooks but don't want to buy the "wrong" ones for money/efficient studying reasons. Is this something to ask the prof or students who took the prof the previous year? Wait until the syllabus arrives before buying?

ETA: Glannon's Guides are different from hornbooks right?

I also think it depends largely on the professor. For instance, for torts with shapo, definitely get his hornbook. For con law with redish, the chemerinsky supplement will probably not be too helpful. I'd suggest posting your professors and then people who had them in the past can comment

[FloridaCoastalorbust]

Thanks for the explanation guys. I'm def not lookin to buy supplements willy nilly but want the right stuff. Just want to have materials in place from the get-go to make climbing up the 1L learning curve faster/a little bit easier. Here's my profs and the supplements I've got my hands on thus far.

Criminal Law, Leonard Rubinowitz
• Understanding Criminal Law, Sixth Edition, Joshua Dressler
• Glannon guide to criminal law

Contracts, Emily Kadens (heard the E&E can be pretty good? don't have it yet)
- Glannon guide to contracts

- Siegel's Essay and Multiple choice

Civil Procedure, Susan Provenzano (heard the E&E 7th ed. is pretty good, don't have it)
• Glannon Guide

Property, Nadav Shoked (heard Gilbert law summary is good, don't have it)
• E&E, 4th edition

[snapdragon25]

Contracts, Emily Kadens (heard the E&E can be pretty good? don't have it yet)

Don't use the E&E for Contracts with Kadens. She disagrees with the writers on several concepts so it could actually hurt you to read it. Focus your extra study time on reading her book really closely and analyzing her past exams and problems she gives you.

[Dr. Filth]

who is better to take fed jur with, pfander or redish??

i took con law with redish and I feel like I didn't learn much just because of his teaching style so i'm leaning towards pfander, but i don't know anything about him. does anyone have a syllabus they'd be willing to share?

Loved pfanders fed jur. He's fairly straightforward with the way he teaches. Cold calls are barely a thing. He doesn't hold attendance against you. Tons of great outlines.

[GoCats56]

3L Here:

1. Supplements (a broad category that includes hornbooks, E&Es, and a whole bunch of other types of study aids) can be super useful, or they can be a colossal waste of your time and money. And before you start school, *you have no way of knowing which outcome is more likely.* The usefulness of a supplement is going to vary tremendously based on your professor, your learning style (which may be very different in law school than in UG), the particular way the subject clicks or doesn't click in your head, and a host of other factors. The upshot is that you really, really should not rush out and spend a ton of money getting supplement(s) for all your classes right now. Give yourself a month of school to get acclimated and to figure out where you might need some extra help or another source of explanation. Seriously. I used a supplement for CivPro (thank you based Glannon), and I think I borrowed a friend's for some stuff in Property that I found tricky, but that was all. If you need a supplement for every class, that's totally fine. But more likely than not you won't, and you should save your money by giving yourself a fair shot at learning without them.

2. For the love of God don't use a supplement for Kadens. Just don't. She writes her own custom casebook, it says exactly what she thinks the law is (which is often quite different than what the supplement authors think). Just stick with that. She's very precise about what she wants.

[Micdiddy]

Also, supplements will by way cheaper once you get here and upperclassmen are passing them out like candy.
I would wait two weeks in each class before deciding whether to use a supplement.
Ultimately, All this advice is pointless since y'all are neurotic 0Ls like we all were and we know you have a 10 ft stack of supplements already.

[BaberhamLincoln]

If I got into all the classes I want, there's no point to open enrollment, right? I thought I saw something about how if you want the class to be a 2 draft or a 3 draft class then you need to do that now...unsure about this, still trying to understand the draft requirements overall.

Also, it says I am not enrolled in classes but I got the classes I wanted/bid on...so I assume there's just a delay for that? Sorry - first timer here.

[Calvin Murphy]

If I got into all the classes I want, there's no point to open enrollment, right? I thought I saw something about how if you want the class to be a 2 draft or a 3 draft class then you need to do that now...unsure about this, still trying to understand the draft requirements overall.

Also, it says I am not enrolled in classes but I got the classes I wanted/bid on...so I assume there's just a delay for that? Sorry - first timer here.

There is a deadline for the 3-draft option, but it shouldn't pass until after classes have already started. I wouldn't worry about that just yet.

As for enrollment--you are correct...no one is enrolled yet (except for a handful of special permission enrollments outside of the typical bidding system).

[rinkrat19]

You usually (always?) don't choose whether to take a class 1/2/3 drafts until you're in the class. The prof may require you to commit to one option right away or give you a short time to decide, and they may limit the number of multi-draft students (more work for them). But there's no difference at the enrollment stage. You don't choose the number of credits showing up in CAESAR; that happens later when you fill out the multi-draft certification form or not.

[BaberhamLincoln]

Thank you both!

[champloo]

2L here. Is BA, basic tax, negotiations too many 3 credit classes? I think BA and tax are the only curved classes im taking and i hear negotiations isnt too hard. im also taking two 2 credit classes that are uncurved. goal is to maximize gpa fwiw

[crumb cake]

.

[crumb cake]

.

[cookiejar1]

2L here. Is BA, basic tax, negotiations too many 3 credit classes? I think BA and tax are the only curved classes im taking and i hear negotiations isnt too hard. im also taking two 2 credit classes that are uncurved. goal is to maximize gpa fwiw

You'll be fine. If you really want to have an easy semester I'd drop tax for next and try to pick up another guaranteed A/A- class or similar (Bus. Gov. & Policy??). But BA and Tax aren't more difficult than any of your doctrinal classes (unless, of course, you don't know how depreciation/amortization or basic finance works in which case seriously read a book).

[champloo]

2L here. Is BA, basic tax, negotiations too many 3 credit classes? I think BA and tax are the only curved classes im taking and i hear negotiations isnt too hard. im also taking two 2 credit classes that are uncurved. goal is to maximize gpa fwiw

You'll be fine. If you really want to have an easy semester I'd drop tax for next and try to pick up another guaranteed A/A- class or similar (Bus. Gov. & Policy??). But BA and Tax aren't more difficult than any of your doctrinal classes (unless, of course, you don't know how depreciation/amortization or basic finance works in which case seriously read a book).

Thanks! If I drop Tax and take it next semester I'd probably take Tax and M&A together. Would taking any of those two classes with 1L gunners be a problem?

[holly45]

For a class that requires you to be present on the first day, do you have to be there for the entire class, or can you leave after say 30 mins?

[180asBreath]

I don't understand Northwestern's LRAP. I am considering a PI career, but I would like to know how my loan situation would work out.

I will owe $120k, single with no kids.

Based on my expected salary, the calculator says:

Annual payments under standard 10-year repayment plan: $17471
Annual IBR Payment (using NU AGI): $5063
Annual unpaid interest: $4537
Annual LRAP Award: $6066 (75% IBR + 50% unpaid interest)

Based on this, what would my monthly payment be?

My read is that IBR will expect me to pay $5063 and Northwestern will cover 75%, $3797.25, so I will be responsible for $1265.75 a year. Now, if I do this for 10 years and make 120 monthly payments of ~$100, then I will have no loan balance at the end of the 10 years. During those 10 years, I am assuming I can work at any PI, DA/SA, clerkship, or USAO. But what would happen if I left after 5 years for biglaw job? Would it be as if I had paid down half of my debt?

Thanks for any help.

[rinkrat19]

I don't understand Northwestern's LRAP. I am considering a PI career, but I would like to know how my loan situation would work out.

I will owe $120k, single with no kids.

Based on my expected salary, the calculator says:

Annual payments under standard 10-year repayment plan: $17471
Annual IBR Payment (using NU AGI): $5063
Annual unpaid interest: $4537
Annual LRAP Award: $6066 (75% IBR + 50% unpaid interest)

Based on this, what would my monthly payment be?

My read is that IBR will expect me to pay $5063 and Northwestern will cover 75%, $3797.25, so I will be responsible for $1265.75 a year. Now, if I do this for 10 years and make 120 monthly payments of ~$100, then I will have no loan balance at the end of the 10 years. During those 10 years, I am assuming I can work at any PI, DA/SA, clerkship, or USAO. But what would happen if I left after 5 years for biglaw job? Would it be as if I had paid down half of my debt?

Thanks for any help.

Nope. Your loan balance is still sitting there, getting bigger (minus however much of the ballooning interest NU pays each year). PSLF (the feds) forgive whatever the total balance is after 10 years/120 monthly payments. NU has nothing to do with that. They're just keeping it from getting as enormous.

For PSLF, the Feds don't care if your 10 years in PI is continuous, but for NU LRAP, it has to be immediately after graduation and continuous. So if you leave, you give up LRAP. You don't have to pay back what they already gave you (unless you didn't work a whole year in PI that they already paid you for, I think).

[180asBreath]

So, if I stay in PI for 10 years:

I will owe $174,710.00
I will pay $12,657.50 out of pocket
I will pay $60,660.00 that LRAP awards me
The feds will forgive the remaining ~$102,000

And it doesn't matter what the types of the loans are as long as I accepted NU's loan offerings and didn't refinance.

[chardeemacdennis]

So, if I stay in PI for 10 years:

I will owe $174,710.00
I will pay $12,657.50 out of pocket
I will pay $60,660.00 that LRAP awards me
The feds will forgive the remaining ~$102,000

And it doesn't matter what the types of the loans are as long as I accepted NU's loan offerings and didn't refinance.

Sort of. You are right about your own out-of-pocket expenses, but wrong about the other numbers. Assuming LRAP worked out for you, you are correct in that you would really only ever be on the hook for 12.5ish K.

You are right that will owe $174,710.00 when you graduate. But, keep in mind that interest will be substantial. Typically, IBR payments do not cover interest, so barring help that 174 k is actually growing as time passes. Also, NU only helps with the interest in years 1 - 5, and they only help with some of it. The final balance of your loan could very well exceed 174 K after ten years, even as you pay down. Regardless of these numbers, the entire balance will be forgiven, whether you chip away and get it down to 125 K, or whether it balloons to 225 K. "You" will not pay the 60 K LRAP awards you. At least it is confusing to think about it that way. Basically, LRAP is just Northwestern paying your loans for you. The 12 K is the bit that you pitch in to help them do that.

A couple other things:

1. NU does not extend LRAP for clerking. So, if you secured a clerkship, you would be on the hook for your IBR that year. Then, assuming you went into the public sector afterwards, NU would start LRAP. Clerking DOES apply for PSLF, but NOT for LRAP.

2. It would be best if you do not assume that you will be able to jump from a DA's office to big law at will.

3. PSLF and LRAP are typically only beneficial if you complete them. 5 years of LRAP/PSLF is not 50% of 10 years of LRAP/PSLF. The value is in the forgiveness of the loans and NU helping you with IBR. IBR help by itself is useful, but relatively less so if you have what is effectively a mortgage hanging over your head.