Thanks a lot for this helpful post. I want to go into BigLaw as well, and am looking at NU, b/c of its BigLaw placements. If you don't mind me asking, do you enjoy your work at BigLaw? Thank again to you and everyone else.Chi-Town-911 wrote:I took the $150k ED scholarship at NU and never looked back. With my grades/LSAT, I probably could have gotten into HLS, but likely with little or no money.LikelyThrowaway wrote:0L here coming down to decision-making crunch time.
Are you guys glad you're at Northwestern? Was it definitely the right choice for you? Any regrets? Anything you wish you'd known?
Harvard vs UChicago (75k) vs Northwestern (120k) -- any advice?
I am very, very happy with my decision.
To begin with, consider NU vs U Chicago. If you're going into BigLaw, there is NO DIFFERENCE in employment outcomes or prestige in the Chicago market (I assume people outside the Chicago market care, but I don't know). If you want to clerk or go into academia, U Chicago is a better bet. But really, if you're dead set on clerking you can make it happen at NU. You'll be less likely to get feeder DC Circuit judges, but people can and do get such spots at NU.
As far as NU vs HLS -- I personally went to law school to get a well-paying, stable, semi-prestigious job --BigLaw, AUSA, clerking. NU is a surefire ticket to get there, and I got exactly what I wanted. HLS could have gotten me there too.
Personally, I was raised by very frugal parents and come from a small town. Taking out $150k+ in loans was something I LITERALLY COULD NOT IMAGINE myself doing. Seriously, having $20k in loans that I can pay off with my signing bonus stresses me out.
On the other hand, there are folks at NU who would kill to be at HLS. The prestige, the "wow" factor, the ability to say "I went to Harvard." My parents would be 1000% more impressed with me if I were at Harvard. They do not really know what NU is, nor do most non-lawyers outside the Midwest.
Also, when I meet fellow incoming associates at my new firm, sometimes there's the "where did you go to school" convo, and I feel a little smaller than the HLS / Yale folks. That will probably always be with me.
But for me, personally? 100% worth it.
The average HLS grad graduates with $150k in loans. That's $1,500 in loan payments PER MONTH from now (May 2017) until May 2027. In 2027, will I value having a HLS degree more or having $1500 per month more? Again, as someone who comes from a family with little money, $1500 per month is a lot to me.
To students who come from trust fund families or who really value prestige for some reason, maybe being able to list HLS on your lawfirm bio is worth $1500 per month.
One thing I wish I would have known about NU -- pretty much everyone who graduates from here goes into BigLaw. Even if you think you'll be different and going into BigFed or PI, the peer pressure to do BigLaw is huge. So if it's important for you to end up somewhere else, NU will make your job tougher.
It's a very personal decision, but any of the law schools you've been accepted into are fantastic choices -- you can't go wrong. Congrats, and good luck!!
Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges Forum
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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges
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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges
But only around 50% of NU go into biglaw. What about the other 50%? Could they just not get in, or did they not want BigLaw?star fox wrote:OCS is going to assume you do OCI, all your classmates are going to assume you do OCI, all your professors are going to assume you do OCI. Not doing OCI is way against the grain.guybourdin wrote:I'm asking specifically about peer pressure (which is what chitown911 said). I understand there are systemic pressures and people change, etc. Do you agree there is peer pressure at NU against going into work other than biglaw? How does that manifest itself at NU?onionz wrote:guybourdin wrote:Can you or anyone else expand on this? I understand a lot of people do biglaw and the path to biglaw is easier to follow, but what kind of peer pressure?Chi-Town-911 wrote: the peer pressure to do BigLaw is huge. So if it's important for you to end up somewhere else, NU will make your job tougher.
I don't disagree with the sentiment but friends of mine at other schools seem to mostly describe the same phenomenon. People come in wanting to do pi and leave doing biglaw.
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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges
You can probably safely assume everyone with a Federal Clerkship had a summer associate position. A lot of the rest (around 1/3 I think) probably struck out. Some JD-MBAs intern at a big consulting firm and go there. And of course some are hardcore PI from the beginning.theventriloquist wrote:But only around 50% of NU go into biglaw. What about the other 50%? Could they just not get in, or did they not want BigLaw?star fox wrote:OCS is going to assume you do OCI, all your classmates are going to assume you do OCI, all your professors are going to assume you do OCI. Not doing OCI is way against the grain.guybourdin wrote:I'm asking specifically about peer pressure (which is what chitown911 said). I understand there are systemic pressures and people change, etc. Do you agree there is peer pressure at NU against going into work other than biglaw? How does that manifest itself at NU?onionz wrote:guybourdin wrote:Can you or anyone else expand on this? I understand a lot of people do biglaw and the path to biglaw is easier to follow, but what kind of peer pressure?Chi-Town-911 wrote: the peer pressure to do BigLaw is huge. So if it's important for you to end up somewhere else, NU will make your job tougher.
I don't disagree with the sentiment but friends of mine at other schools seem to mostly describe the same phenomenon. People come in wanting to do pi and leave doing biglaw.
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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges
Wow so 15% of the students could not get into BigLaw even though they wanted it, what do they do, just go to small law firms? I was looking at the employment stats, and it seems that almost 100% get at least a semi-decent job.star fox wrote:You can probably safely assume everyone with a Federal Clerkship had a summer associate position. A lot of the rest (around 1/3 I think) probably struck out. Some JD-MBAs intern at a big consulting firm and go there. And of course some are hardcore PI from the beginning.theventriloquist wrote:But only around 50% of NU go into biglaw. What about the other 50%? Could they just not get in, or did they not want BigLaw?star fox wrote:OCS is going to assume you do OCI, all your classmates are going to assume you do OCI, all your professors are going to assume you do OCI. Not doing OCI is way against the grain.guybourdin wrote:I'm asking specifically about peer pressure (which is what chitown911 said). I understand there are systemic pressures and people change, etc. Do you agree there is peer pressure at NU against going into work other than biglaw? How does that manifest itself at NU?onionz wrote:guybourdin wrote:Can you or anyone else expand on this? I understand a lot of people do biglaw and the path to biglaw is easier to follow, but what kind of peer pressure?Chi-Town-911 wrote: the peer pressure to do BigLaw is huge. So if it's important for you to end up somewhere else, NU will make your job tougher.
I don't disagree with the sentiment but friends of mine at other schools seem to mostly describe the same phenomenon. People come in wanting to do pi and leave doing biglaw.
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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges
.....that is terrifying.star fox wrote:You can probably safely assume everyone with a Federal Clerkship had a summer associate position. A lot of the rest (around 1/3 I think) probably struck out. Some JD-MBAs intern at a big consulting firm and go there. And of course some are hardcore PI from the beginning.theventriloquist wrote:But only around 50% of NU go into biglaw. What about the other 50%? Could they just not get in, or did they not want BigLaw?star fox wrote:OCS is going to assume you do OCI, all your classmates are going to assume you do OCI, all your professors are going to assume you do OCI. Not doing OCI is way against the grain.guybourdin wrote:I'm asking specifically about peer pressure (which is what chitown911 said). I understand there are systemic pressures and people change, etc. Do you agree there is peer pressure at NU against going into work other than biglaw? How does that manifest itself at NU?onionz wrote:guybourdin wrote:Can you or anyone else expand on this? I understand a lot of people do biglaw and the path to biglaw is easier to follow, but what kind of peer pressure?Chi-Town-911 wrote: the peer pressure to do BigLaw is huge. So if it's important for you to end up somewhere else, NU will make your job tougher.
I don't disagree with the sentiment but friends of mine at other schools seem to mostly describe the same phenomenon. People come in wanting to do pi and leave doing biglaw.
A current student told me the people who strike out are typically very socially awkward, and as long as you are near median and can pass the "airport test" you are likely to still get big law. How do other nu students feel about this assessment?
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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges
Northwestern, like all schools, publishes their employment data. It's on the website here. Not sure why the 0L (who keeps hijacking threads with misinformation BTW) is talking about only 50% of people get big law, it's more than that and if you look at the breakdown you can see where else people wind up. Of those that don't, some are passionate about PI, are doing clerkships, or are JD/MBA type people who are going into business.carsondalywashere wrote:.....that is terrifying.star fox wrote:You can probably safely assume everyone with a Federal Clerkship had a summer associate position. A lot of the rest (around 1/3 I think) probably struck out. Some JD-MBAs intern at a big consulting firm and go there. And of course some are hardcore PI from the beginning.theventriloquist wrote:But only around 50% of NU go into biglaw. What about the other 50%? Could they just not get in, or did they not want BigLaw?star fox wrote: OCS is going to assume you do OCI, all your classmates are going to assume you do OCI, all your professors are going to assume you do OCI. Not doing OCI is way against the grain.
A current student told me the people who strike out are typically very socially awkward, and as long as you are near median and can pass the "airport test" you are likely to still get big law. How do other nu students feel about this assessment?
Something to remember at any law school, you have to take ownership of your career. If you believe that you'll be fine at OCI because you pass an airport test and your grades are above median, so you don't bother to carefully craft your narrative, or you completely overshoot your bid list or, you don't bother with connections, you'll struggle. But not because NU doesn't set you up for success, NU absolutely does, but you have to meet them at the table and if you just don't bother going to the table because you think doing the bare minimum is fine you're taking a risk.
tl;dr: If you want big law you will get it as long as you put in moderate effort, and by moderate I mean like pay attention when you bid and maybe network like once.
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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges
Awesome, that's excellent/reassuring to learn.IExistedOnceBefore wrote:Northwestern, like all schools, publishes their employment data. It's on the website here. Not sure why the 0L (who keeps hijacking threads with misinformation BTW) is talking about only 50% of people get big law, it's more than that and if you look at the breakdown you can see where else people wind up. Of those that don't, some are passionate about PI, are doing clerkships, or are JD/MBA type people who are going into business.carsondalywashere wrote:.....that is terrifying.star fox wrote:You can probably safely assume everyone with a Federal Clerkship had a summer associate position. A lot of the rest (around 1/3 I think) probably struck out. Some JD-MBAs intern at a big consulting firm and go there. And of course some are hardcore PI from the beginning.theventriloquist wrote:But only around 50% of NU go into biglaw. What about the other 50%? Could they just not get in, or did they not want BigLaw?star fox wrote: OCS is going to assume you do OCI, all your classmates are going to assume you do OCI, all your professors are going to assume you do OCI. Not doing OCI is way against the grain.
A current student told me the people who strike out are typically very socially awkward, and as long as you are near median and can pass the "airport test" you are likely to still get big law. How do other nu students feel about this assessment?
Something to remember at any law school, you have to take ownership of your career. If you believe that you'll be fine at OCI because you pass an airport test and your grades are above median, so you don't bother to carefully craft your narrative, or you completely overshoot your bid list or, you don't bother with connections, you'll struggle. But not because NU doesn't set you up for success, NU absolutely does, but you have to meet them at the table and if you just don't bother going to the table because you think doing the bare minimum is fine you're taking a risk.
tl;dr: If you want big law you will get it as long as you put in moderate effort, and by moderate I mean like pay attention when you bid and maybe network like once.
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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges
Employment outcomes at NU are good. For the class of 2016, 65.1% of people went to firms with at least 100 attorneys. The numbers only get better if you add in non-fallback-from-striking-out-at-OCI jobs. The figure rises when adding clerks (74.9%), and rises even more when adding public interest people (80.4%). That still doesn't take into account JD-MBAs going back into consulting, or anyone who goes into government.
The data is here - http://www.law.northwestern.edu/profess ... /stats/jd/.
The data is here - http://www.law.northwestern.edu/profess ... /stats/jd/.
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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges
I mean BigLaw is expected, but that person sounds like an asshole to be honest. People can strike out for all sorts of reasons, and the line between striking out and not striking out is pretty small. A lot of people walk away with one offer or really have to scramble for a while after the formal OCI list is over and get something through hustling. When you take that into account and realize that if you happened to not have the right interviewer that particular day who you made a connection with you'd strike out too, you should realize that it's more than just some airport test. I mean, anyone who goes to Northwestern has a good shot of getting biglaw at the end of the day as the numbers bear out but that doesn't mean it's just raining offers for everyone, with the exception of only some really bizarre outliers.carsondalywashere wrote:.....that is terrifying.star fox wrote:You can probably safely assume everyone with a Federal Clerkship had a summer associate position. A lot of the rest (around 1/3 I think) probably struck out. Some JD-MBAs intern at a big consulting firm and go there. And of course some are hardcore PI from the beginning.theventriloquist wrote:But only around 50% of NU go into biglaw. What about the other 50%? Could they just not get in, or did they not want BigLaw?star fox wrote: OCS is going to assume you do OCI, all your classmates are going to assume you do OCI, all your professors are going to assume you do OCI. Not doing OCI is way against the grain.
A current student told me the people who strike out are typically very socially awkward, and as long as you are near median and can pass the "airport test" you are likely to still get big law. How do other nu students feel about this assessment?
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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges
Thanks for the honest assesssment. I was curious, do a significant number of JD's (not JD/MBA) go into investment banking or finance? Are recruiters from financial firms on the law school campus, or is it possible to use carrear services from Kellogg as a law school student? Thank you!star fox wrote:I mean BigLaw is expected, but that person sounds like an asshole to be honest. People can strike out for all sorts of reasons, and the line between striking out and not striking out is pretty small. A lot of people walk away with one offer or really have to scramble for a while after the formal OCI list is over and get something through hustling. When you take that into account and realize that if you happened to not have the right interviewer that particular day who you made a connection with you'd strike out too, you should realize that it's more than just some airport test. I mean, anyone who goes to Northwestern has a good shot of getting biglaw at the end of the day as the numbers bear out but that doesn't mean it's just raining offers for everyone, with the exception of only some really bizarre outliers.carsondalywashere wrote:.....that is terrifying.star fox wrote:You can probably safely assume everyone with a Federal Clerkship had a summer associate position. A lot of the rest (around 1/3 I think) probably struck out. Some JD-MBAs intern at a big consulting firm and go there. And of course some are hardcore PI from the beginning.theventriloquist wrote:But only around 50% of NU go into biglaw. What about the other 50%? Could they just not get in, or did they not want BigLaw?star fox wrote: OCS is going to assume you do OCI, all your classmates are going to assume you do OCI, all your professors are going to assume you do OCI. Not doing OCI is way against the grain.
A current student told me the people who strike out are typically very socially awkward, and as long as you are near median and can pass the "airport test" you are likely to still get big law. How do other nu students feel about this assessment?
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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges
.star fox wrote:I mean BigLaw is expected, but that person sounds like an asshole to be honest. People can strike out for all sorts of reasons, and the line between striking out and not striking out is pretty small. A lot of people walk away with one offer or really have to scramble for a while after the formal OCI list is over and get something through hustling. When you take that into account and realize that if you happened to not have the right interviewer that particular day who you made a connection with you'd strike out too, you should realize that it's more than just some airport test. I mean, anyone who goes to Northwestern has a good shot of getting biglaw at the end of the day as the numbers bear out but that doesn't mean it's just raining offers for everyone, with the exception of only some really bizarre outliers.carsondalywashere wrote:.....that is terrifying.star fox wrote:You can probably safely assume everyone with a Federal Clerkship had a summer associate position. A lot of the rest (around 1/3 I think) probably struck out. Some JD-MBAs intern at a big consulting firm and go there. And of course some are hardcore PI from the beginning.theventriloquist wrote:But only around 50% of NU go into biglaw. What about the other 50%? Could they just not get in, or did they not want BigLaw?star fox wrote: OCS is going to assume you do OCI, all your classmates are going to assume you do OCI, all your professors are going to assume you do OCI. Not doing OCI is way against the grain.
A current student told me the people who strike out are typically very socially awkward, and as long as you are near median and can pass the "airport test" you are likely to still get big law. How do other nu students feel about this assessment?
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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges
It seems like the JD-MBA option is much more appreciated and well coordinated at NW compared to other T14 schools that have a 3/40year JD-MBA. Do you think this extra effort puts the JD-MBAs in a better spot for jobs relative to getting a JD-MBA at another T14?
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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges
I'm curious. What's the maximum number of clinics/clinic hours that I can take during my time at NU Law?
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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges
Anyone use the bike garage/room. Looks like it's maybe 2-3 blocks away
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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges
Most people use the bike racks right in front of the law schoolguybourdin wrote:Anyone use the bike garage/room. Looks like it's maybe 2-3 blocks away
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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges
You can take a clinic every semester after 1L and you can do one full-time (for 12 credit hours) as a 3LRedPurpleBlue wrote:I'm curious. What's the maximum number of clinics/clinic hours that I can take during my time at NU Law?
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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges
No? Not sure how to know this but it seems like employers wouldn't really care that much compared to other M7/T14 JD/MBAsrizzlebizness wrote:It seems like the JD-MBA option is much more appreciated and well coordinated at NW compared to other T14 schools that have a 3/40year JD-MBA. Do you think this extra effort puts the JD-MBAs in a better spot for jobs relative to getting a JD-MBA at another T14?
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- rizzlebizness
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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges
I'm not talking about it from an employer's end as in they view a JD-MBA from NW as superior to the same degree from another M7. I was thinking more in terms of NW's additional effort/resources towards a JD-MBA creating more opportunities for jobs via unique recruiting events, JD-MBA dedicated career services, etc.Mullens wrote:No? Not sure how to know this but it seems like employers wouldn't really care that much compared to other M7/T14 JD/MBAsrizzlebizness wrote:It seems like the JD-MBA option is much more appreciated and well coordinated at NW compared to other T14 schools that have a 3/40year JD-MBA. Do you think this extra effort puts the JD-MBAs in a better spot for jobs relative to getting a JD-MBA at another T14?
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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges
Don't really think those exist and it's likely because there aren't really any employers who want to hire solely JD/MBAs. That said, while at NU I've seen that JD/MBAs do seem to get a bump over normal JD students in the eyes of law firms, but it's hard to parse how much of that is due to the degree and how much is due to prior work experience (most law firms give a class year bump to all JD/MBAs). The students use the separate career services offices at Pritzker and Kellogg.rizzlebizness wrote:I'm not talking about it from an employer's end as in they view a JD-MBA from NW as superior to the same degree from another M7. I was thinking more in terms of NW's additional effort/resources towards a JD-MBA creating more opportunities for jobs via unique recruiting events, JD-MBA dedicated career services, etc.Mullens wrote:No? Not sure how to know this but it seems like employers wouldn't really care that much compared to other M7/T14 JD/MBAsrizzlebizness wrote:It seems like the JD-MBA option is much more appreciated and well coordinated at NW compared to other T14 schools that have a 3/40year JD-MBA. Do you think this extra effort puts the JD-MBAs in a better spot for jobs relative to getting a JD-MBA at another T14?
Might be easier to understand why you want this info and give a better answer if you can tell me what sort of job you want with a JD/MBA.
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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges
Ah I see. I'm more in the group you mentioned, where I'd get the JD-MBA to receive a small bump in hiring (I too have prior work experience though). I'm considering it because I believe it can supplement my focus on the transactional side e.g., M&A, restructuring, financing, etc. Also, the program is still only 3 years, I wouldn't go for it extends school to 4 years.Mullens wrote:Don't really think those exist and it's likely because there aren't really any employers who want to hire solely JD/MBAs. That said, while at NU I've seen that JD/MBAs do seem to get a bump over normal JD students in the eyes of law firms, but it's hard to parse how much of that is due to the degree and how much is due to prior work experience (most law firms give a class year bump to all JD/MBAs). The students use the separate career services offices at Pritzker and Kellogg.rizzlebizness wrote:I'm not talking about it from an employer's end as in they view a JD-MBA from NW as superior to the same degree from another M7. I was thinking more in terms of NW's additional effort/resources towards a JD-MBA creating more opportunities for jobs via unique recruiting events, JD-MBA dedicated career services, etc.Mullens wrote:No? Not sure how to know this but it seems like employers wouldn't really care that much compared to other M7/T14 JD/MBAsrizzlebizness wrote:It seems like the JD-MBA option is much more appreciated and well coordinated at NW compared to other T14 schools that have a 3/40year JD-MBA. Do you think this extra effort puts the JD-MBAs in a better spot for jobs relative to getting a JD-MBA at another T14?
Might be easier to understand why you want this info and give a better answer if you can tell me what sort of job you want with a JD/MBA.
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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges
It's a lot more expensive of a degree.rizzlebizness wrote:Ah I see. I'm more in the group you mentioned, where I'd get the JD-MBA to receive a small bump in hiring (I too have prior work experience though). I'm considering it because I believe it can supplement my focus on the transactional side e.g., M&A, restructuring, financing, etc. Also, the program is still only 3 years, I wouldn't go for it extends school to 4 years.Mullens wrote:Don't really think those exist and it's likely because there aren't really any employers who want to hire solely JD/MBAs. That said, while at NU I've seen that JD/MBAs do seem to get a bump over normal JD students in the eyes of law firms, but it's hard to parse how much of that is due to the degree and how much is due to prior work experience (most law firms give a class year bump to all JD/MBAs). The students use the separate career services offices at Pritzker and Kellogg.rizzlebizness wrote:I'm not talking about it from an employer's end as in they view a JD-MBA from NW as superior to the same degree from another M7. I was thinking more in terms of NW's additional effort/resources towards a JD-MBA creating more opportunities for jobs via unique recruiting events, JD-MBA dedicated career services, etc.Mullens wrote:No? Not sure how to know this but it seems like employers wouldn't really care that much compared to other M7/T14 JD/MBAsrizzlebizness wrote:It seems like the JD-MBA option is much more appreciated and well coordinated at NW compared to other T14 schools that have a 3/40year JD-MBA. Do you think this extra effort puts the JD-MBAs in a better spot for jobs relative to getting a JD-MBA at another T14?
Might be easier to understand why you want this info and give a better answer if you can tell me what sort of job you want with a JD/MBA.
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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges
When should we be expecting grades to be posted?
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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges
I was wondering if anyone has taken International Arbitration class or done any work with the Center on Negotiation and Mediation. If you have, would you mind sharing your experience?
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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges
My guess is next Fridayexcusez-moi wrote:When should we be expecting grades to be posted?
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Re: Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges
Has anyone here ever taken Crisis Litigation and the Court of Public Opinion and can send me a syllabus?
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