Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
SCOTUS Twerk
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby SCOTUS Twerk » Fri Jun 10, 2016 2:40 pm

Is 4DS/6H competitive for the Sears?

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jingosaur
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby jingosaur » Fri Jun 10, 2016 3:09 pm

SCOTUS Twerk wrote:Is 4DS/6H competitive for the Sears?


Yes. And please do not ask us to chance you for EIP.

Indifference
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby Indifference » Fri Jun 10, 2016 5:22 pm

So if I ended at 4H 6P how should I feel? Also will employers care how that balanced out over each semester? (Went straight Ps in the spring). Right now feeling pretty shit. Very shit.

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heythatslife
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby heythatslife » Fri Jun 10, 2016 6:28 pm

Indifference wrote:So if I ended at 4H 6P how should I feel? Also will employers care how that balanced out over each semester? (Went straight Ps in the spring). Right now feeling pretty shit. Very shit.

You realize that's above median? You really have to suck at interviewing and bid poorly to not land anything via EIP.

Orion311
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby Orion311 » Fri Jun 10, 2016 6:29 pm

.
Last edited by Orion311 on Sun Aug 28, 2016 6:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Single-Malt-Liquor
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby Single-Malt-Liquor » Fri Jun 10, 2016 6:48 pm

Orion311 wrote:Sorry to clutter the thread with this type of post, but is a 3.83 (3P/6H/1DS) going to be uncompetitive for any firms at EIP? Is there a good resource for determining which firms are reaches/safeties with a given set of HLS grades or do you just have to talk to a lot of people/advisors?


Dude, you can bid wherever. There are only like two firms that are reaches with those grades. You didn't win the hunger games but you certainly made it close to the end.

tomwatts
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby tomwatts » Fri Jun 10, 2016 7:27 pm

jingosaur wrote:
SCOTUS Twerk wrote:Is 4DS/6H competitive for the Sears?


Yes. And please do not ask us to chance you for EIP.

I wouldn't think it is, actually. I think you generally need more DS's than H's to be in the running for the Sears. I have only a vague sense of the very highest echelon of grades, but I'm pretty sure every year there are a couple of people who get like 7DS/3H.
Indifference wrote:So if I ended at 4H 6P how should I feel? Also will employers care how that balanced out over each semester? (Went straight Ps in the spring). Right now feeling pretty shit. Very shit.

So you went 4H/1P in the fall and 5P in the spring? I'm sorry; you must be pretty disappointed right now. At least some interviewers will ask you what happened, and you should probably talk to OCS/OPIA to figure out an answer. But, like, don't feel too down on yourself: you have 4 H's, which is 2-3 more H's than a lot of people have.

I also had a much better 1L fall than 1L spring. In my case, it's not like anything happened in the spring; I just thought that doing the same things as got me good grades in the fall would get me good grades in the spring, without realizing that the classes/profs were pretty different. I think I more or less said this in interviews, and I'm not sure how it went over. Interviewers didn't really respond in any way when I said that.

(I'm glad I don't have to deal with that nonsense in interviews now, because I ended up getting all H's for the rest of law school and graduating magna, so nobody asks about my one bad semester anymore. Hopefully the same will happen to you!)

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foxes
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby foxes » Fri Jun 10, 2016 7:33 pm

I really disappointed myself with spring 1l grades :( any advice for eip with only 1h? Is this something that interviewers will ask about? I know I should be bidding mostly nyc, is there any other really important stuff to know? Thanks.

Eta: should I be mass mailing/is OCS helpful wrt mass mailing?

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TripTrip
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby TripTrip » Fri Jun 10, 2016 7:45 pm

foxes wrote:I really disappointed myself with spring 1l grades :( any advice for eip with only 1h? Is this something that interviewers will ask about? I know I should be bidding mostly nyc, is there any other really important stuff to know? Thanks.

Eta: should I be mass mailing/is OCS helpful wrt mass mailing?

Nothing that says you have to bid NY. Chi and TX tend to be less selective than NY. Interviewers won't talk about your grades unless you give them a reason to. Don't bid on the first ten firms on the Vault Selectively List and you'll be fine.

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Single-Malt-Liquor
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby Single-Malt-Liquor » Fri Jun 10, 2016 8:16 pm

TripTrip wrote:
foxes wrote:I really disappointed myself with spring 1l grades :( any advice for eip with only 1h? Is this something that interviewers will ask about? I know I should be bidding mostly nyc, is there any other really important stuff to know? Thanks.

Eta: should I be mass mailing/is OCS helpful wrt mass mailing?

Nothing that says you have to bid NY. Chi and TX tend to be less selective than NY. Interviewers won't talk about your grades unless you give them a reason to. Don't bid on the first ten firms on the Vault Selectively List and you'll be fine.


Well the not bidding on the top ten has some caveats. I mean don't bid wachtell as that interview will be, well, uncomfortable with 1H. But if you have other softs or are an amazing interviewer you can maybe reach with a couple of bids bit Trip Trip is right, you're gonna be fine Boston is within reach as well.

lawlorbust
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby lawlorbust » Fri Jun 10, 2016 8:28 pm

Single-Malt-Liquor wrote:
Orion311 wrote:Sorry to clutter the thread with this type of post, but is a 3.83 (3P/6H/1DS) going to be uncompetitive for any firms at EIP? Is there a good resource for determining which firms are reaches/safeties with a given set of HLS grades or do you just have to talk to a lot of people/advisors?


Dude, you can bid wherever. There are only like two firms that are reaches with those grades. You didn't win the hunger games but you certainly made it close to the end.


Seconded. Feel free to bid whatever, but also realize that you won't be a sure thing (and still have less than a 50/50 shot) for WLRK, W&C, etc. etc. On the other hand, don't do what I did and bid 35 firms before trying to beg out of them later. You're a lock at enough firms to be more discerning about how many interviews you want to do.

Indifference
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby Indifference » Fri Jun 10, 2016 8:38 pm

tomwatts wrote:
Indifference wrote:So if I ended at 4H 6P how should I feel? Also will employers care how that balanced out over each semester? (Went straight Ps in the spring). Right now feeling pretty shit. Very shit.

So you went 4H/1P in the fall and 5P in the spring? I'm sorry; you must be pretty disappointed right now. At least some interviewers will ask you what happened, and you should probably talk to OCS/OPIA to figure out an answer. But, like, don't feel too down on yourself: you have 4 H's, which is 2-3 more H's than a lot of people have.

I also had a much better 1L fall than 1L spring. In my case, it's not like anything happened in the spring; I just thought that doing the same things as got me good grades in the fall would get me good grades in the spring, without realizing that the classes/profs were pretty different. I think I more or less said this in interviews, and I'm not sure how it went over. Interviewers didn't really respond in any way when I said that.

(I'm glad I don't have to deal with that nonsense in interviews now, because I ended up getting all H's for the rest of law school and graduating magna, so nobody asks about my one bad semester anymore. Hopefully the same will happen to you!)


One can only hope I would be so lucky.

Edit: Trip already answered my other q.

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TripTrip
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby TripTrip » Fri Jun 10, 2016 8:52 pm

Single-Malt-Liquor wrote:
TripTrip wrote:
foxes wrote:I really disappointed myself with spring 1l grades :( any advice for eip with only 1h? Is this something that interviewers will ask about? I know I should be bidding mostly nyc, is there any other really important stuff to know? Thanks.

Eta: should I be mass mailing/is OCS helpful wrt mass mailing?

Nothing that says you have to bid NY. Chi and TX tend to be less selective than NY. Interviewers won't talk about your grades unless you give them a reason to. Don't bid on the first ten firms on the Vault Selectively List and you'll be fine.


Well the not bidding on the top ten has some caveats. I mean don't bid wachtell as that interview will be, well, uncomfortable with 1H. But if you have other softs or are an amazing interviewer you can maybe reach with a couple of bids bit Trip Trip is right, you're gonna be fine Boston is within reach as well.

I don't mean the V10. I mean literally the top ten on the Selectivity list.

It's not foolproof, but when we surveyed 450 students from the classes of 2016 and 2015 and asked them what their grades were and what firms they got, the Vault Selectivity List turned out to be the best proxy for both grade medians and lower-bound hard grade cutoffs. That's why I'm always advocating that list.

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TripTrip
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby TripTrip » Fri Jun 10, 2016 8:56 pm

lawlorbust wrote:On the other hand, don't do what I did and bid 35 firms before trying to beg out of them later. You're a lock at enough firms to be more discerning about how many interviews you want to do.

Also want to address this. We found in the survey that even after controlling for better grades, journal/LR, and work experience, students who bid on fewer firms tended to have a higher callback percentage with the firms they did interview with. Presumably because they could focus on killing these interviews.

That doesn't meant they got more callbacks overall, but if you know exactly what you want in a firm and are qualified to get it, you certainly don't need to be using all 35 bids.

On the other hand we found that, everything else equal, lower performing students who didn't max out their 35 bids were (unsurprisingly) more likely to strike out than those who used all 35 bids.

chanandler
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby chanandler » Fri Jun 10, 2016 10:56 pm

lawlorbust wrote:
Single-Malt-Liquor wrote:
Orion311 wrote:Sorry to clutter the thread with this type of post, but is a 3.83 (3P/6H/1DS) going to be uncompetitive for any firms at EIP? Is there a good resource for determining which firms are reaches/safeties with a given set of HLS grades or do you just have to talk to a lot of people/advisors?


Dude, you can bid wherever. There are only like two firms that are reaches with those grades. You didn't win the hunger games but you certainly made it close to the end.


Seconded. Feel free to bid whatever, but also realize that you won't be a sure thing (and still have less than a 50/50 shot) for WLRK, W&C, etc. etc. On the other hand, don't do what I did and bid 35 firms before trying to beg out of them later. You're a lock at enough firms to be more discerning about how many interviews you want to do.
Last edited by chanandler on Thu Jul 28, 2016 8:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby chanandler » Fri Jun 10, 2016 10:59 pm

lawlorbust wrote:
Single-Malt-Liquor wrote:
Orion311 wrote:Sorry to clutter the thread with this type of post, but is a 3.83 (3P/6H/1DS) going to be uncompetitive for any firms at EIP? Is there a good resource for determining which firms are reaches/safeties with a given set of HLS grades or do you just have to talk to a lot of people/advisors?


Dude, you can bid wherever. There are only like two firms that are reaches with those grades. You didn't win the hunger games but you certainly made it close to the end.


Seconded. Feel free to bid whatever, but also realize that you won't be a sure thing (and still have less than a 50/50 shot) for WLRK, W&C, etc. etc. On the other hand, don't do what I did and bid 35 firms before trying to beg out of them later. You're a lock at enough firms to be more discerning about how many interviews you want to do.
Last edited by chanandler on Thu Jul 28, 2016 8:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Single-Malt-Liquor
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby Single-Malt-Liquor » Fri Jun 10, 2016 11:27 pm

TripTrip wrote:
Single-Malt-Liquor wrote:
TripTrip wrote:
foxes wrote:I really disappointed myself with spring 1l grades :( any advice for eip with only 1h? Is this something that interviewers will ask about? I know I should be bidding mostly nyc, is there any other really important stuff to know? Thanks.

Eta: should I be mass mailing/is OCS helpful wrt mass mailing?

Nothing that says you have to bid NY. Chi and TX tend to be less selective than NY. Interviewers won't talk about your grades unless you give them a reason to. Don't bid on the first ten firms on the Vault Selectively List and you'll be fine.


Well the not bidding on the top ten has some caveats. I mean don't bid wachtell as that interview will be, well, uncomfortable with 1H. But if you have other softs or are an amazing interviewer you can maybe reach with a couple of bids bit Trip Trip is right, you're gonna be fine Boston is within reach as well.

I don't mean the V10. I mean literally the top ten on the Selectivity list.

It's not foolproof, but when we surveyed 450 students from the classes of 2016 and 2015 and asked them what their grades were and what firms they got, the Vault Selectivity List turned out to be the best proxy for both grade medians and lower-bound hard grade cutoffs. That's why I'm always advocating that list.


You and your data bro.

But for serious, I'm gonna go with Trip. If you're the sort of person I'm thinking of, dynamic personality, work experience it's gonna be hard for you to strike out, and you probs already know it. My biggest fear is for the median, or below median student who goes ham after DC and west coast with no safety bids.

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TripTrip
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby TripTrip » Sat Jun 11, 2016 12:00 am

chanandler wrote:
lawlorbust wrote:
Single-Malt-Liquor wrote:
Orion311 wrote:Sorry to clutter the thread with this type of post, but is a 3.83 (3P/6H/1DS) going to be uncompetitive for any firms at EIP? Is there a good resource for determining which firms are reaches/safeties with a given set of HLS grades or do you just have to talk to a lot of people/advisors?


Dude, you can bid wherever. There are only like two firms that are reaches with those grades. You didn't win the hunger games but you certainly made it close to the end.


Seconded. Feel free to bid whatever, but also realize that you won't be a sure thing (and still have less than a 50/50 shot) for WLRK, W&C, etc. etc. On the other hand, don't do what I did and bid 35 firms before trying to beg out of them later. You're a lock at enough firms to be more discerning about how many interviews you want to do.


Similar question, if I ended up with 5H/1DS/4P and don't want to bid WLRK or W&C, am I pretty much competitive for everything else in all markets? Would I be remotely competitive for these two firms?

I'm not going to comment on any firm specifically, but yes with a 3.70 you're not below the hard cutoff from anywhere.

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foxes
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby foxes » Sat Jun 11, 2016 2:51 am

Single-Malt-Liquor wrote:
TripTrip wrote:
Single-Malt-Liquor wrote:
TripTrip wrote:
foxes wrote:I really disappointed myself with spring 1l grades :( any advice for eip with only 1h? Is this something that interviewers will ask about? I know I should be bidding mostly nyc, is there any other really important stuff to know? Thanks.

Eta: should I be mass mailing/is OCS helpful wrt mass mailing?

Nothing that says you have to bid NY. Chi and TX tend to be less selective than NY. Interviewers won't talk about your grades unless you give them a reason to. Don't bid on the first ten firms on the Vault Selectively List and you'll be fine.


Well the not bidding on the top ten has some caveats. I mean don't bid wachtell as that interview will be, well, uncomfortable with 1H. But if you have other softs or are an amazing interviewer you can maybe reach with a couple of bids bit Trip Trip is right, you're gonna be fine Boston is within reach as well.

I don't mean the V10. I mean literally the top ten on the Selectivity list.

It's not foolproof, but when we surveyed 450 students from the classes of 2016 and 2015 and asked them what their grades were and what firms they got, the Vault Selectivity List turned out to be the best proxy for both grade medians and lower-bound hard grade cutoffs. That's why I'm always advocating that list.


You and your data bro.

But for serious, I'm gonna go with Trip. If you're the sort of person I'm thinking of, dynamic personality, work experience it's gonna be hard for you to strike out, and you probs already know it. My biggest fear is for the median, or below median student who goes ham after DC and west coast with no safety bids.

Thanks for the info, everyone. Do you think I could throw in a few bids for la/Sf? Or would that be laughable with 1h

tomwatts
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby tomwatts » Sat Jun 11, 2016 8:19 am

foxes wrote:Thanks for the info, everyone. Do you think I could throw in a few bids for la/Sf? Or would that be laughable with 1h

I think you can pretty much always put a few bids anywhere you want, no matter what your grades. Just don't exclusively bid on highly selective firms with 1 H. But if there's something you really want, put a few bids that way.

More specifically, my general impression that SF is, on average, horribly competitive like DC, but LA not as much. And even in SF you can pick out a few places that might be less grade-sensitive given the right background/interests (not just tech, although that helps).

pinkpanda
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby pinkpanda » Sat Jun 11, 2016 10:27 am

Hey all, for clerkships and EIP, are H and DS grades in 2-credit classes viewed differently than those grades in 4-credit classes? That is, does a judge or firm look at an H/DS in LRW or a seminar as equivalent to an H/DS in a black letter law class? Thanks!

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polareagle
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby polareagle » Sat Jun 11, 2016 11:01 am

pinkpanda wrote:Hey all, for clerkships and EIP, are H and DS grades in 2-credit classes viewed differently than those grades in 4-credit classes? That is, does a judge or firm look at an H/DS in LRW or a seminar as equivalent to an H/DS in a black letter law class? Thanks!


Every single judge (/ their clerks) looks at applications differently, so there's no way to know for sure. I had one judge highlight my LRW grade specifically in one interview while in another a group of clerks asked me to explain the HLS grading system. So as far as judges, the answer is nearly always it depends on the judge.

But for firms, I've never heard of them doing anything except counting Hs / DSs. So for them I would think it was equivalent.

lawlorbust
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby lawlorbust » Sat Jun 11, 2016 11:51 am

polareagle wrote:
pinkpanda wrote:Hey all, for clerkships and EIP, are H and DS grades in 2-credit classes viewed differently than those grades in 4-credit classes? That is, does a judge or firm look at an H/DS in LRW or a seminar as equivalent to an H/DS in a black letter law class? Thanks!


Every single judge (/ their clerks) looks at applications differently, so there's no way to know for sure. I had one judge highlight my LRW grade specifically in one interview while in another a group of clerks asked me to explain the HLS grading system. So as far as judges, the answer is nearly always it depends on the judge.

But for firms, I've never heard of them doing anything except counting Hs / DSs. So for them I would think it was equivalent.


I'd had cute interviews where partners go "what do the stars mean...?" And at firms which take 10+ HLS summers a class.

But really the grade-counting happens as much (or more so) with firm HR as with the actual people interviewing you.

DancingLaw
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby DancingLaw » Sat Jun 11, 2016 1:08 pm

Does anyone know how the administrative board makes decisions regarding return to HLS after a medical leave of absence? Is it important to describe the health specific issues necessitating the leave and how they've been addressed in my personal statement that is reviewed by the board?
There is a readmissions interview at HUHS and medical information from doctors is submitted to HUHS to verify medical readiness to return. I am wondering how much medical information, if any, should be submitted to the Admin Board. Thanks!

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lawschool22
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby lawschool22 » Sat Jun 11, 2016 2:48 pm

pinkpanda wrote:Hey all, for clerkships and EIP, are H and DS grades in 2-credit classes viewed differently than those grades in 4-credit classes? That is, does a judge or firm look at an H/DS in LRW or a seminar as equivalent to an H/DS in a black letter law class? Thanks!


Nearly all will just tally the grades without respect to credits. That's the anecdotal experience I've heard, as well as what OCS says (about EIP and judges alike). And if anything, certain judges will care more about LRW than other 1L classes.




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