Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
rathgra
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby rathgra » Tue Aug 25, 2015 10:58 pm

Legal Eagle87 wrote:
Yea. Would you say clinical grades are even more unpredictable, vague, & dependent on factors outside the student's control than are courses & seminars?


Maybe in that we have fewer data points? You can take a maximum of 4 clinics, you take 7-8 exams in 1L alone. You can look at Dope and see what an H exam looks like. You can't really follow an H clinical student around to see what that looks like.

That said, clinics are small, so I'd be surprised if any professor adheres to the curve. I don't think external supervisors know what the curve is. If you work very hard and perform well in your clinic, I think you are fairly likely to get an H whereas that's not necessarily the same for classes. So, I would say the grade is likely to be more within your control. Clinics can be time sucks though, so this may be at the expense of your classes.

If you're looking to take a clinic for an easy H, the answer is depends on the clinic and depends on your career goals.

Legal Eagle87
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???

Postby Legal Eagle87 » Wed Aug 26, 2015 2:08 pm

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Last edited by Legal Eagle87 on Fri Oct 23, 2015 6:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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TripTrip
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby TripTrip » Wed Aug 26, 2015 2:50 pm

Legal Eagle87 wrote:
If you're looking to take a clinic for an easy H, the answer is depends on the clinic and depends on your career goals.


I was actually thinking about dropping (or at least postponing) a clinic because I thought it'd be less predictable than a course, but I see how it can be the opposite.

2 clinics potentially relevant to career interests are 1. Transactional and 2. Negotiation. Any impressions of relative ease in those 2 clinics?

Otherwise, I'd be down to do any of the "serving the community clinics," which are more or less the same to me in interest level and career relevance. Which of those are easy Hs?

I think you might be asking the wrong questions.

Clinics require a ton a time. That's why you can only do one per semester. In the absolute sense of "hours per Honors," clinics have the lowest rate of return. Grading is just not a good way to evaluate clinical opportunities. If you want something to talk about in interviews, or there is a clinic that really aligns with your career aspirations, do that. If you are really passionate about a particular area of law, do that. The "serving the community" clinics are all fields of law that some of your classmates are gunning to get into, and they are often significantly more competitive than, for example, transactional law (the field, not the clinic).

If you are just looking for a way to improve your transcript, you're probably looking in the wrong place. While clinics may potentially net you more control over your grade, the main reason this is true is because you're there for so many hours. They thus have more work to evaluate, and the evaluation is more likely to be reflective of your actual performance over the semester rather than just your ability to perform for a few hours on one exam.

tomwatts
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby tomwatts » Wed Aug 26, 2015 7:51 pm

Put another way, there's a huge difference between a likely H and an easy H. As far as I can tell, a clinic is a likely H if you put the time in, because if you do the work, your supervisor will recommend that you receive an H (probably). A clinic is not an easy H because "putting in the time" is a lot of work.

despina
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby despina » Wed Aug 26, 2015 9:15 pm

Agree with the posters above re: clinics.

I don't know much about the transactional law clinic; I do know the Negotiation clinic is particularly notorious for having very high expectations and requiring more hours-per-clinical credit. A lot of people love it, while I hear complaints from others; it depends a lot on what project you're placed on, and how your team gets along.

As I've said on this thread a thousand times, take the Negotiation Workshop. It's a lot of time but it's absolutely worth it, whether or not you plan to do the clinic later.

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Mack.Hambleton
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby Mack.Hambleton » Wed Aug 26, 2015 9:20 pm

Where can I park overnight in Cambridge?

despina
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby despina » Wed Aug 26, 2015 9:20 pm

Mack.Hambleton wrote:Where can I park overnight in Cambridge?


For a night or two here or there? Or in general?

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Mack.Hambleton
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby Mack.Hambleton » Wed Aug 26, 2015 9:22 pm

despina wrote:
Mack.Hambleton wrote:Where can I park overnight in Cambridge?


For a night or two here or there? Or in general?


For tonight until I can get a resident permit tomorrow

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TripTrip
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby TripTrip » Wed Aug 26, 2015 9:30 pm

Parking garage downtown?

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polareagle
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby polareagle » Wed Aug 26, 2015 9:37 pm

Legal Eagle87 wrote:
rathgra wrote:
hlsperson1111 wrote:(1) Yes, you can get a DS in a clinic. Grading varies by clinic.


For externship clinics, your attorney supervisor fills out an evaluation and recommends a grade. The professor in charge of the clinic gets the final say.

I know of two people (in different clinics) whose supervisors recommended DS - one got it, the other didn't. I want to respect people's privacy, but the one who didn't get it was working extraordinarily hard, so I think it was more of a varies by professor thing than a difference in the strength of the evaluation. But I'm largely speculating. Like the vast majority of conversations we have about grades.


Yea. Would you say clinical grades are even more unpredictable, vague, & dependent on factors outside the student's control than are courses & seminars?


Most people in clinics get H's.
But most clinics also involve more consistent work than regular courses, so if you don't enjoy the work and your work product suffers you may be one of the Ps.

Basically, take courses/clinics that interest you. There are some classes that are known to have brutal curves (e.g., Admin, especially with Stephenson, probably Vermule this year), some classes that are known to be super easy (e.g., Anal Meth), and plenty in the middle.

No one's going to be able to give you a blanket answer to your question because every professor/lecturer in every lecture course, seminar, and clinic is given wide latitude to grade how they want.* Especially w/r/t clinics vs. seminars, professors can do almost whatever they want, as their courses are under 30, and the registrar won't review the grades they submit for curve compliance.

*The exception being 1L courses, the requirement of anonymous exam grading, and a suggested curve for courses over 30 students.

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Mr. Elshal
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby Mr. Elshal » Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:51 pm

Mack.Hambleton wrote:
despina wrote:
Mack.Hambleton wrote:Where can I park overnight in Cambridge?


For a night or two here or there? Or in general?


For tonight until I can get a resident permit tomorrow


HLS garages. Convenient ones located on Everett Street and on Oxford Street. Might be too late now, though.

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Mr. Elshal
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby Mr. Elshal » Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:52 pm

despina wrote:Agree with the posters above re: clinics.

I don't know much about the transactional law clinic; I do know the Negotiation clinic is particularly notorious for having very high expectations and requiring more hours-per-clinical credit. A lot of people love it, while I hear complaints from others; it depends a lot on what project you're placed on, and how your team gets along.

As I've said on this thread a thousand times, take the Negotiation Workshop. It's a lot of time but it's absolutely worth it, whether or not you plan to do the clinic later.


I'll add to this. If the Negotiation clinic gave out credits based on the hours-to-credit ratio they advertise, I would have finished a full year of law school credits in one semester of that workshop. The hours are absurd, so don't do it for an easy grade. You have to enjoy it. I did, and that was good, but the hours really grind you down.

ETA: This obviously will depend on the project you're placed on, though.
Last edited by Mr. Elshal on Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Mack.Hambleton
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby Mack.Hambleton » Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:53 pm

Mr. Elshal wrote:
Mack.Hambleton wrote:
despina wrote:
Mack.Hambleton wrote:Where can I park overnight in Cambridge?


For a night or two here or there? Or in general?


For tonight until I can get a resident permit tomorrow


HLS garages. Convenient ones located on Everett Street and on Oxford Street. Might be too late now, though.


I found non resident street parking until 8am so that works. Thanks tho

Legal Eagle87
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???

Postby Legal Eagle87 » Thu Aug 27, 2015 12:35 am

???
Last edited by Legal Eagle87 on Fri Oct 23, 2015 6:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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TripTrip
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby TripTrip » Thu Aug 27, 2015 7:12 am

Legal Eagle87 wrote:How do people learn about that and what are some other classes known for being brutal or relatively if not super easy?

One option is to read student comments and survey results. Anal Meth vs Admin with Vermule.

wwwcol
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby wwwcol » Thu Aug 27, 2015 10:17 am

TripTrip wrote:
Legal Eagle87 wrote:How do people learn about that and what are some other classes known for being brutal or relatively if not super easy?

One option is to read student comments and survey results. Anal Meth vs Admin with Vermule.


Another option is to spend your time talking with other students in person, rather than continuing to ask long-winded questions that clearly don't result in satisfactory answers for you.

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sjgonzalez3
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby sjgonzalez3 » Tue Sep 01, 2015 5:04 pm

Question about credit-load as a 2L/3L.

I know 12/semester is average. Are there any advantages to taking more credits? I have a combination of classes that I am enrolled in that equals 15 credits, and don't particularly want to drop one. But, if there isn't really any benefit, it may be hard to justify the extra workload.

So far my pros/cons list to dropping is:

Pro: Less work

Cons: Don't get to take one extra class that interests me.

Anything else to tack on to either side for consideration?

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nothingtosee
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby nothingtosee » Tue Sep 01, 2015 5:07 pm

Anyone in cambridge NOT use comcast for Internet? I don't care about TV

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Mr. Elshal
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby Mr. Elshal » Tue Sep 01, 2015 7:13 pm

nothingtosee wrote:Anyone in cambridge NOT use comcast for Internet? I don't care about TV


I don't know about other parts of Cambridge but I live across the street from Wasserstein and Comcast is the only option available to me.

tomwatts
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby tomwatts » Tue Sep 01, 2015 8:37 pm

sjgonzalez3 wrote:Question about credit-load as a 2L/3L.

I know 12/semester is average. Are there any advantages to taking more credits? I have a combination of classes that I am enrolled in that equals 15 credits, and don't particularly want to drop one. But, if there isn't really any benefit, it may be hard to justify the extra workload.

So far my pros/cons list to dropping is:

Pro: Less work

Cons: Don't get to take one extra class that interests me.

Anything else to tack on to either side for consideration?

There's no advantage to taking more credits than you need in order to graduate. But if you take more now, you can take fewer later, and you might feel like taking fewer later.

My feeling is that you should take classes you're interested in when you can take them. 15 is kind of a lot, but if you actually like all the classes, you should be fine. And if it's too much, you'll figure it out pretty quickly and can drop a class early on. And taking the pressure off later semesters could be nice if there are fewer things you want to take in later semesters.

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nothingtosee
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby nothingtosee » Tue Sep 01, 2015 9:24 pm

So for internet, I'm looking here:
[url]http://www.xfinity.com/internet-service.html
[/url]

Looks to me like the best deal for just internet is $29.99 per month (for the first 12 months).

Kinda concerned by this:

Image

"Comcast's service charge for both products is $66.95/mo."

What does that mean?

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TripTrip
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby TripTrip » Tue Sep 01, 2015 10:09 pm

nothingtosee wrote:"Comcast's service charge for both products is $66.95/mo."

That's the regular (non-special) rate for TV + internet for the package you clicked on.

You should also factor in that you will probably be paying another $10/month more on top of the special rate if you don't have your own equipment.

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lawschool22
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby lawschool22 » Tue Sep 01, 2015 11:03 pm

TripTrip wrote:
nothingtosee wrote:"Comcast's service charge for both products is $66.95/mo."

That's the regular (non-special) rate for TV + internet for the package you clicked on.

You should also factor in that you will probably be paying another $10/month more on top of the special rate if you don't have your own equipment.


Just to piggy back on Trip's post:

You should totally buy your own modem—it will save you money, and it'll probably perform better. But make sure to look up Comcast's approved list of models.

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Single-Malt-Liquor
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby Single-Malt-Liquor » Tue Sep 01, 2015 11:32 pm

tomwatts wrote:
sjgonzalez3 wrote:Question about credit-load as a 2L/3L.

I know 12/semester is average. Are there any advantages to taking more credits? I have a combination of classes that I am enrolled in that equals 15 credits, and don't particularly want to drop one. But, if there isn't really any benefit, it may be hard to justify the extra workload.

So far my pros/cons list to dropping is:

Pro: Less work

Cons: Don't get to take one extra class that interests me.

Anything else to tack on to either side for consideration?

There's no advantage to taking more credits than you need in order to graduate. But if you take more now, you can take fewer later, and you might feel like taking fewer later.

My feeling is that you should take classes you're interested in when you can take them. 15 is kind of a lot, but if you actually like all the classes, you should be fine. And if it's too much, you'll figure it out pretty quickly and can drop a class early on. And taking the pressure off later semesters could be nice if there are fewer things you want to take in later semesters.


For what it's worth, I did 16 credits first semester of 2L and then 10 credits the second semester. It was intense (every class had a final exam and one of the classes I skipped pretty much the elite semester). But it was worth it as in the spring I was able to only have class on Monday and Tuesday and have five day weekends for the duration.

For the record, I'm doing the same thing again as a 3L.

despina
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby despina » Wed Sep 02, 2015 9:30 am

tomwatts wrote:
sjgonzalez3 wrote:Question about credit-load as a 2L/3L.

I know 12/semester is average. Are there any advantages to taking more credits? I have a combination of classes that I am enrolled in that equals 15 credits, and don't particularly want to drop one. But, if there isn't really any benefit, it may be hard to justify the extra workload.

So far my pros/cons list to dropping is:

Pro: Less work

Cons: Don't get to take one extra class that interests me.

Anything else to tack on to either side for consideration?

There's no advantage to taking more credits than you need in order to graduate. But if you take more now, you can take fewer later, and you might feel like taking fewer later.

My feeling is that you should take classes you're interested in when you can take them. 15 is kind of a lot, but if you actually like all the classes, you should be fine. And if it's too much, you'll figure it out pretty quickly and can drop a class early on. And taking the pressure off later semesters could be nice if there are fewer things you want to take in later semesters.


I agree with the above advice.

Just to clarify, though -- there's a limit to how much "more now, less later" you can do.

I believe each semester you need to take a minimum of 10 credits, and each year you need a minimum of 26. So you can't, say, take a lot of credits 2L in order to slack off 3L, or take a lot of credits in the fall in order to take a part-time spring load. You also can't take J term off, no matter how many credits you have.

Not necessarily relevant to you, but in case anyone else is figuring this out -- I'd also keep in mind the limits on clinical and cross-registration hours. You can't do more than 12 each. So for example, if you want to do CJI in your 3L year (minimum 4 clinical credits for fall-winter, and 5 for winter-spring), then be careful how many clinical credits you take 2L in order not to foreclose that possibility (4-credit clinic 2L fall + 4-credit clinic 2L spring + 2L J term clinic = no CJI for you).




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