Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
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codyoneill
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby codyoneill » Wed Jul 29, 2015 1:25 pm

sk7415 wrote:How much time commitment are non-LR Journals, if one were to join as a 1L? Can any current students speak to pros/cons about joining a journal as a 1L?


Both of the previous two responses are accurate. Couple more things:

- Commitments vary across journals. Some demand more than others. I found that the more popular journals ask less of their 1L's because they already have so many that the work can get spread around. I did the Civil Rights Cvil Liberties Law Review and found the commitment to be minimal.

- If you're interested in a leadership position on a journal, you might have to join as 1L.

- Only do an international journal if you're really interested in international law. The citation checking for international legal materials is a real pain.

PMan99
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby PMan99 » Wed Jul 29, 2015 1:27 pm

sk7415 wrote:How much time commitment are non-LR Journals, if one were to join as a 1L? Can any current students speak to pros/cons about joining a journal as a 1L?


I think some interviewers who aren't familiar with Harvard are marginally impressed even by non-LR journals. I use marginally because it's a small factor, and rare, but I guess it does exist. Whether it's worth the 2-3 awful days of cite checking, I'm not sure [probably not]. If your resume is particularly sparse it might be worth it just so you're not completely empty but meh. Would not stay on one after 1L either way.

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jrf12886
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby jrf12886 » Wed Jul 29, 2015 1:34 pm

sk7415 wrote:How much time commitment are non-LR Journals, if one were to join as a 1L? Can any current students speak to pros/cons about joining a journal as a 1L?


If you are planning to apply to the ed. board as a 2L, having participated in the subcite as a 1L was a advantage.

nickhalden
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby nickhalden » Wed Jul 29, 2015 2:54 pm

So are bathrobes really TCR in Gropius? I didn't anticipating owning a bathrobe this early in life.

HLS Housing Handbook wrote:Residents should be considerate of their residential community when determining what constitutes appropriate clothing to be worn on the way to and from the bathrooms for showering. Merely wearing a towel is considered inappropriate, so bathrobes are encouraged.

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TripTrip
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby TripTrip » Wed Jul 29, 2015 3:42 pm

nickhalden wrote:So are bathrobes really TCR in Gropius? I didn't anticipating owning a bathrobe this early in life.

HLS Housing Handbook wrote:Residents should be considerate of their residential community when determining what constitutes appropriate clothing to be worn on the way to and from the bathrooms for showering. Merely wearing a towel is considered inappropriate, so bathrobes are encouraged.

Most people just wear gym shorts.

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jrf12886
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby jrf12886 » Wed Jul 29, 2015 4:30 pm

nickhalden wrote:So are bathrobes really TCR in Gropius? I didn't anticipating owning a bathrobe this early in life.

HLS Housing Handbook wrote:Residents should be considerate of their residential community when determining what constitutes appropriate clothing to be worn on the way to and from the bathrooms for showering. Merely wearing a towel is considered inappropriate, so bathrobes are encouraged.


Really? A towel covers more than a bathing suit, yet it's inappropriate? Prudes.

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tonysoprano
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby tonysoprano » Wed Jul 29, 2015 5:12 pm

Anyone tryna go in on some c/o 2018 embroidered bathrobe/slipper sets?

But in all seriousness, would someone mind taking a second to elaborate more on the process of subciting, i.e. what it is, what makes it so dull, why it's beneficial if running for leadership positions as a 2L, etc? Still trying to figure out if I want to join a journal as a 1L - thanks!

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mino
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby mino » Wed Jul 29, 2015 5:26 pm

All of the journals will be soliciting articles from law professors/practitioners who write up these articles and then submit them to the journal. You'll probably be assigned to an article to "subcite." This entails two main things.

1) Checking to make sure the sources that the author cites says what they say it says. You'll have to read the author's article and then you'll have to read the materials that they cited to make sure that they represented the source accurately. Rinse and repeat for every single footnote. A group will be working on each article so you'll only get a portion of the footnotes (e.g. 1-13) but you could get unlucky and end up with footnotes that include 10+ sources. You have to check all of them. Sometimes you get lucky and the stuff that you're reading during subciting is interesting. However it can also be incredibly dry and boring.

2) Making sure that the cites the author has used conform to the Bluebook (the legal style of citing). In my experience, most of the time the cites do not conform with the Bluebook and you'll need to fix them. This can range from relatively straightforward (they forgot to underline/italicize something) to extremely annoying (they cited to the wrong page in a source and you'll need to figure out what page they meant to cite).

It's good practice in certain contexts (like doing research for a professor or for the Harvard Law Review competition) and can be interesting if you're into the subject matter. I can't speak as much to the editorial board but I have seen on applications for higher positions that the decision makers do take prior journal experience (on their journal or in general) into account when making decisions. I haven't been on the deciding end of this so can't speak to how much of an impact it has.

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tonysoprano
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby tonysoprano » Wed Jul 29, 2015 6:38 pm

mino wrote:All of the journals will be soliciting articles from law professors/practitioners who write up these articles and then submit them to the journal. You'll probably be assigned to an article to "subcite." This entails two main things.

1) Checking to make sure the sources that the author cites says what they say it says. You'll have to read the author's article and then you'll have to read the materials that they cited to make sure that they represented the source accurately. Rinse and repeat for every single footnote. A group will be working on each article so you'll only get a portion of the footnotes (e.g. 1-13) but you could get unlucky and end up with footnotes that include 10+ sources. You have to check all of them. Sometimes you get lucky and the stuff that you're reading during subciting is interesting. However it can also be incredibly dry and boring.

2) Making sure that the cites the author has used conform to the Bluebook (the legal style of citing). In my experience, most of the time the cites do not conform with the Bluebook and you'll need to fix them. This can range from relatively straightforward (they forgot to underline/italicize something) to extremely annoying (they cited to the wrong page in a source and you'll need to figure out what page they meant to cite).

It's good practice in certain contexts (like doing research for a professor or for the Harvard Law Review competition) and can be interesting if you're into the subject matter. I can't speak as much to the editorial board but I have seen on applications for higher positions that the decision makers do take prior journal experience (on their journal or in general) into account when making decisions. I haven't been on the deciding end of this so can't speak to how much of an impact it has.

Great info - thanks!

rathgra
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby rathgra » Wed Jul 29, 2015 9:02 pm

I, and many others, wore a towel to the shower in Groupius all the time. I had no idea you weren't supposed to...

For me, my journal functions more like an affinity group than anything else. I don't mind the work, but the major draw is having a group of friends who care passionately about the same legal issues that I do.

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Mack.Hambleton
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby Mack.Hambleton » Wed Jul 29, 2015 9:28 pm

What do people with 9/1 leases usually do (if moving in early isn't an option)

tomwatts
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby tomwatts » Wed Jul 29, 2015 9:39 pm

Be aware that some journals have you do more than subcite. I was on HLPR, and we had the 1Ls do a substantive edit, too, so that you get to give substantive feedback to authors (e.g., this argument doesn't make sense, here's why, and here's how you can fix it). Being a junior editor (what 1Ls do) is more or less a prerequisite to getting a leadership position in a later semester, and some of those are pretty fun.

Being on a journal at all (even if not HLR) is helpful for clerkships, or at least so I am told. I'm not clear on whether it actually helped me in the process, but I'm told that judges like it.

Also, in Gropius, because of many years of practice in the Berkeley dorms with coed bathrooms, I wore my clothes into the stall, hung them over the side while I was showering, and then put them back on before getting out out of the shower stall. This is easy to do if you feel like it.

robotrick
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby robotrick » Wed Jul 29, 2015 10:11 pm

Mack.Hambleton wrote:What do people with 9/1 leases usually do (if moving in early isn't an option)

Sublet or couch surf? I'm doing the first one.

nickhalden wrote:So are bathrobes really TCR in Gropius? I didn't anticipating owning a bathrobe this early in life.

HLS Housing Handbook wrote:Residents should be considerate of their residential community when determining what constitutes appropriate clothing to be worn on the way to and from the bathrooms for showering. Merely wearing a towel is considered inappropriate, so bathrobes are encouraged.
It probably depends what kind of floor you live on and how comfortable everyone is with each other. Last year I, and many others, made the walk wearing a towel. Some went in their pajamas. Later in the year I noticed some guys were walking down the hall in just their underwear.

mimiquestionmark
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby mimiquestionmark » Thu Jul 30, 2015 10:19 am

I'd love to get some more information about RA positions. I'm sure they vary from professor to professor/project to project...but what types of work are you typically doing? Also are RA positions usually paid, or no? Thanks!

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TripTrip
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby TripTrip » Thu Jul 30, 2015 10:58 am

mimiquestionmark wrote:I'd love to get some more information about RA positions. I'm sure they vary from professor to professor/project to project...but what types of work are you typically doing? Also are RA positions usually paid, or no? Thanks!

~$10/hr for RA positions. You're doing research on whatever they're working on, or whatever work they arbitrarily decide needs to be done. It really depends on the professor.

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codyoneill
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby codyoneill » Thu Jul 30, 2015 11:05 am

TripTrip wrote:
mimiquestionmark wrote:I'd love to get some more information about RA positions. I'm sure they vary from professor to professor/project to project...but what types of work are you typically doing? Also are RA positions usually paid, or no? Thanks!

~$10/hr for RA positions. You're doing research on whatever they're working on, or whatever work they arbitrarily decide needs to be done. It really depends on the professor.


My experience has been you mostly do the grunt work that they would prefer not to do. But if you're interested in clerkships it is a great way to get a letter of recommendation. And if you're interested in academia, it is a great way to start to build a relationship with a mentor.

You can also RA for credit after your 1L year.

tomwatts
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby tomwatts » Thu Jul 30, 2015 3:51 pm

I got my second clerkship because the prof I RA-ed for had clerked for this judge. It was as simple as that.

So, mostly just agreeing with the preceding post: RA-ing is worthwhile if you're interested in the research (casually or professionally), need a letter of rec for some reason, or are going to clerk. For some reason they pay you, but it's not enough to justify doing it for the money.

I was collecting data for a part of a prof's argument. It basically meant wandering through various websites grabbing statistics where I could find them. Not the most interesting task, but she did occasionally send me a draft of whatever she was working on to proofread and comment on, and that was fun.

Um, choose the prof wisely though. RA-ing can be fun or dreadful depending on who it is.

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leslieknope
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby leslieknope » Thu Jul 30, 2015 4:58 pm

It's $11.50 an hour for my professor. Though FWIW, I'm doing way more substantive work than what seems to be standard for an RA, so maybe this is an exception.

Indifference
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby Indifference » Thu Jul 30, 2015 5:05 pm

leslieknope wrote:It's $11.50 an hour for my professor. Though FWIW, I'm doing way more substantive work than what seems to be standard for an RA, so maybe this is an exception.


It's not an exception, it's stated as 11.50 on the hls temp employee wage chart. I'll link later when I have a sec.

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sk7415
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby sk7415 » Thu Jul 30, 2015 10:04 pm

Thanks for all the comments regarding 1L involvement in journals. Im definitely going to read a bit more about all the journals at HLS but does anyone have any specific experiences with JOLT?

Also just to throw another data sample into the RA discussion, Im paid at 11.50 to do very nonsubstantive work. It sounds a lot like tomwatts role minus the interesting part about reading the draft. Could be selection bias for RA roles for 0Ls.

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Mack.Hambleton
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby Mack.Hambleton » Fri Jul 31, 2015 1:18 am

leslieknope wrote:It's $11.50 an hour for my professor. Though FWIW, I'm doing way more substantive work than what seems to be standard for an RA, so maybe this is an exception.


You're working during the summer or something?

tomwatts
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby tomwatts » Fri Jul 31, 2015 1:21 am

Mack.Hambleton wrote:
leslieknope wrote:It's $11.50 an hour for my professor. Though FWIW, I'm doing way more substantive work than what seems to be standard for an RA, so maybe this is an exception.


You're working during the summer or something?

This is a thing that happens. I did it last summer. Some 0Ls even do it.

(Note: Don't do this as a 0L unless you're really, genuinely interested.)

S.Lee2018
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby S.Lee2018 » Fri Jul 31, 2015 8:25 am

tomwatts wrote:Be aware that some journals have you do more than subcite. I was on HLPR, and we had the 1Ls do a substantive edit, too, so that you get to give substantive feedback to authors (e.g., this argument doesn't make sense, here's why, and here's how you can fix it). Being a junior editor (what 1Ls do) is more or less a prerequisite to getting a leadership position in a later semester, and some of those are pretty fun.


Is there any other journals allowing 1Ls to do more than subciting?

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heythatslife
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby heythatslife » Fri Jul 31, 2015 9:28 am

S.Lee2018 wrote:
tomwatts wrote:Be aware that some journals have you do more than subcite. I was on HLPR, and we had the 1Ls do a substantive edit, too, so that you get to give substantive feedback to authors (e.g., this argument doesn't make sense, here's why, and here's how you can fix it). Being a junior editor (what 1Ls do) is more or less a prerequisite to getting a leadership position in a later semester, and some of those are pretty fun.


Is there any other journals allowing 1Ls to do more than subciting?


I know some people at my journal who became a line editor during second semester of 1L. Personally, I don't see much point unless your goal is to become an EIC, because greater responsibility = greater time commitment, which is really the last thing you need during 1L.

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acrossthelake
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby acrossthelake » Fri Jul 31, 2015 10:11 am

JOLT hosts 1-2 subcite weekends a semester, only expect you to sign up for 1. When there are 2 weekends, that's to allow for scheduling flexibility. You'll be assigned to a 4-hour time slot on one of the weekends. There will be food, and you can ask questions. You finish up on your own time in the few days following. Most ppl end up taking around 6 hours total (incuding the 4 hour in person), though this may be better or worse. We did surveys each semester asking how long people spent, and most answers clustered around 6, with usually one or two outliers.

The editing track is as follows:
Subciter -- Line Editor --- Article Editor, with each managing those below them and in charge of more of the article.

JOLT has an internal review system where you review those above and below you, and these reviews are used to make appointments.

You start as a subciter, and then can apply to be a LE the next semester. The technical editor (an elected position) appoints LEs based on reviews. AEs are appointed by the EICs and Executive Editor (elected positions) and are part of the Executibe Board.

Submissions is something you generally get involved with as a rising 2L, as a submissions manager appointed by the Submissioms Editor(s) (elected position). Both are part of the executive board.

Finally, as a 1L you can participate in Digest, where you can write things that get posted there. The time commitment there is basically your choosing.

Most other executive board positions are elected, including Outreach Editor (party planning), Speakers Editor (bringing speakers to campus to give lunch talks), Managing Editor (the money & sponsorship managers), Communications Editor (manages newsletter and social media) and more.

Elections are held in the Spring in several rounds (more 3L oriented positions first) and anyone who has participated during either semester can vote.

During my time there were around 50-60 slots for the executive board with a wide range of tasks and responsibilities. If you're interested, then subciting as a 1L is a useful first step. Line editing is an option for 2nd semester 1Ls who subcited first semester.




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