Top Law Schools

TripTrip wrote:

john777 wrote:I've heard that HLR orientation starts Monday, August 3rd. Does it run right up to classes or is it only a week or two?

Orientation doesn't run up to classes. It will stop for EIP, then after callbacks they'll start working you like a horse.

While orientation itself is only a week new editors do have assignments during the rest of August.

I assume HLR results this week?

a corsair wrote:Does anyone know if/how often Terry Terrace experiences brownouts or blackouts? I'm trying to decide whether or not to buy a UPS for my desktop.

Happened once in two years. Lasted only a couple hours and I just went to WCC to wait it out.

If I can't access/sign my HLS loan promissory note yet, is that normal, or should I be reaching out to SFS? (Searched the thread, couldn't find anything about when the notes are typically available to be signed).

If I received an email from BSA saying, "our selections process is ongoing, and we expect to notify all applications of final decisions by July 31," does that mean the first wave of offers already went out? I have a suspicion that this functions like a wait-list.

Annihilist wrote:If I received an email from BSA saying, "our selections process is ongoing, and we expect to notify all applications of final decisions by July 31," does that mean the first wave of offers already went out? I have a suspicion that this functions like a wait-list.

Yes, first wave went out already.

codyoneill wrote:

Annihilist wrote:If I received an email from BSA saying, "our selections process is ongoing, and we expect to notify all applications of final decisions by July 31," does that mean the first wave of offers already went out? I have a suspicion that this functions like a wait-list.

Yes, first wave went out already.

can someone explain what BSA is/why it's desirable

Mack.Hambleton wrote:can someone explain what BSA is/why it's desirable

https://orgs.law.harvard.edu/bsa/

It's not necessarily desirable.

Mack.Hambleton wrote:can someone explain what BSA is/why it's desirable

Some previous answers to your question from earlier in this thread.
I'm sure there are more, but these are what a quick search turned up.

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... start=3389
http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... start=2923

Anyone been involved with the Harvard Law Entrepreneurship Project and wouldn't mind talking more about it via PM?

tonysoprano wrote:Anyone been involved with the Harvard Law Entrepreneurship Project and wouldn't mind talking more about it via PM?

Or on here? Interested as well.

jimmymac wrote:

tonysoprano wrote:Anyone been involved with the Harvard Law Entrepreneurship Project and wouldn't mind talking more about it via PM?

Or on here? Interested as well.

Yea my bad, on here is obviously better if other people are interested

Do you guys have any specific questions about HLEP? I did it both semesters last year, and I'm sure there are some other posters around who know even more about it than I do.

robotrick wrote:Do you guys have any specific questions about HLEP? I did it both semesters last year, and I'm sure there are some other posters around who know even more about it than I do.

Can 1Ls get involved? If they can, do they actually? What kind of time commitment is it like during the 6-8 weeks where you're working on a project? How competitive is it to get a spot and, if it is competitive, what kind of qualifications are preferred? Overall, how would you rate your experience, and is there anything you wish you had known beforehand?

I'm sure most of this info is available online, but all I found was the hlep.org which seemed more geared towards entrepreneurs who were potentially interested in utilizing HLEP's services. Sorry if I missed something.

tonysoprano wrote:

robotrick wrote:Do you guys have any specific questions about HLEP? I did it both semesters last year, and I'm sure there are some other posters around who know even more about it than I do.

Can 1Ls get involved? If they can, do they actually? What kind of time commitment is it like during the 6-8 weeks where you're working on a project? How competitive is it to get a spot and, if it is competitive, what kind of qualifications are preferred? Overall, how would you rate your experience, and is there anything you wish you had known beforehand?

I'm sure most of this info is available online, but all I found was the hlep.org which seemed more geared towards entrepreneurs who were potentially interested in utilizing HLEP's services. Sorry if I missed something.

1Ls certainly can and do get involved. You can start your very first semester. HLEP will be at the student orgs fair (I assume - they were last year) early in the year and then there's an ethics training thingy you have to do in order to be eligible to participate in any SPOs.

The time commitment, in my experience, is less than 20 hrs spread out over the course of the semester. Here's the way it works: once you're assigned to a team (you get to submit a preference list for projects) you have a meeting with the client, figure out what questions you need to answer, and divvy up the work among the team. Then you write your part, submit the whole team's product for review by an attorney, edit it accordingly, then resubmit it. At the end you have a meeting with the client to go over what you wrote. I always felt like I had plenty of time to get the work done and it didn't interfere with things I had to do for other classes or journals or whatever.

Last year, as far as I know, the only thing you had to do to join was sign up. HLEP has grown significantly, though, and I don't know if that'll result in having a "selection process"." I also don't know if such a thing is even allowed for SPOs.

I loved the experience as a 1L, and I'm definitely going to continue my involvement as a 2L. I wasn't even particularly interested in BigLaw or start-ups when I joined, but it's a heck of a lot of fun and made me reconsider my career goals. You also get to do some research and writing that's a bit different from LRW. Some highlights from my point of view were learning how to conduct a client interview and receiving feedback on my writing directly from a practicing attorney. Since there are real lawyers supervising, they can (and hopefully do!) give valuable advice as you go along. Great experience and I would recommend it highly to anyone even remotely interested in tech, start-ups, business, etc.

Another thing HLEP did for me in my first semester was give me a little more confidence. Perhaps like some other people, I wasn't 100% sure I would be able to "compete" with the people at HLS when I first arrived. As you know, you get little feedback in law school, so seeing my teammates' portions of our HLEP project was actually the first indication I had of how I "measured up". Looking back it seems silly, but at the time it made me feel more at ease.

I'd be happy to answer any other questions you might have either in this thread or via PM!

robotrick wrote:Last year, as far as I know, the only thing you had to do to join was sign up. HLEP has grown significantly, though, and I don't know if that'll result in having a "selection process"." I also don't know if such a thing is even allowed for SPOs.

I don't know much about HLEP, but a "selection process" is allowed for SPOs, and most SPOs do have some sort of an application. They vary quite widely in how selective they are, and how intense the application process is. I think some (Defenders and/or PLAP?, Advocates for Human Rights?) require an interview and have more limited spots, while others are open to anyone who is interested. Most have some sort of sign-up form where you tell them why you're interested and what kind of work you want to do, and they try to take as many people as possible but can't guarantee spots to absolutely everybody.

For those of you who aren't aware, an SPO is a Student Practice Organization. It's a structure unique to HLS (as far as I know) where students including 1Ls are able to do real legal work for real clients, under the supervision of attorneys. It's like a clinic, but less intense time-wise, not for credit, managed by students, and open 1Ls. 1Ls are not allowed to do clinics (at HLS or anywhere else, as far as I know).

SPOs do everything from the consulting-type work described above for HLEP, representing people in immigration court and visa applications, defending the accused in criminal show-cause hearings, mediating disputes in the community, going door-to-door to support community organizations educating people about their rights in foreclosure, negotiating contracts for recording artists, legal research for policy and legislative work, etc.

Info about all the SPOs is here: http://hls.harvard.edu/dept/clinical/st ... ions-spos/

Thanks for the informative responses. I have a tech background and am interested in startups, so HLEP sounds like it could be good fit if I decide to do corporate. Have you guys ever seen (or, if not, could you potentially see) any of the students getting further involved with the businesses beyond what the project entails? I'm just trying to get a better idea of what participation is like.

On the other side of the spectrum, I'm very interested in pursuing a career in litigation. If I have the grades, I'd like to potentially clerk and aim for a boutique. Obviously journals are good for the resume as well as the experience, but are there any clinics/SPOs that are litigation-focused? Also, are some looked at more favorably in competitive hiring scenarios like lit boutiques?

Several clinics and SPO's involve litigation and related work.

Here's an awesome spreadsheet of all the clinics, including what type of work and skills are involved. http://hls.harvard.edu/content/uploads/ ... -14-15.pdf

And a similar one for the SPOs: https://hls.harvard.edu/content/uploads ... e-2014.pdf

despina wrote:Several clinics and SPO's involve litigation and related work.

Here's an awesome spreadsheet of all the clinics, including what type of work and skills are involved. http://hls.harvard.edu/content/uploads/ ... -14-15.pdf

And a similar one for the SPOs: https://hls.harvard.edu/content/uploads ... e-2014.pdf

Awesome info - thanks!

despina wrote:

robotrick wrote:Last year, as far as I know, the only thing you had to do to join was sign up. HLEP has grown significantly, though, and I don't know if that'll result in having a "selection process"." I also don't know if such a thing is even allowed for SPOs.

I don't know much about HLEP, but a "selection process" is allowed for SPOs, and most SPOs do have some sort of an application. They vary quite widely in how selective they are, and how intense the application process is. I think some (Defenders and/or PLAP?, Advocates for Human Rights?) require an interview and have more limited spots, while others are open to anyone who is interested. Most have some sort of sign-up form where you tell them why you're interested and what kind of work you want to do, and they try to take as many people as possible but can't guarantee spots to absolutely everybody.

For those of you who aren't aware, an SPO is a Student Practice Organization. It's a structure unique to HLS (as far as I know) where students including 1Ls are able to do real legal work for real clients, under the supervision of attorneys. It's like a clinic, but less intense time-wise, not for credit, managed by students, and open 1Ls. 1Ls are not allowed to do clinics (at HLS or anywhere else, as far as I know).

SPOs do everything from the consulting-type work described above for HLEP, representing people in immigration court and visa applications, defending the accused in criminal show-cause hearings, mediating disputes in the community, going door-to-door to support community organizations educating people about their rights in foreclosure, negotiating contracts for recording artists, legal research for policy and legislative work, etc.

Info about all the SPOs is here: http://hls.harvard.edu/dept/clinical/st ... ions-spos/

Regarding SPO selection process, what do people do if they definitely want to get involved with an SPO but are applying to a more competitive one such as Defenders or PLAP? Is it assumed that one will do the SPO if accepted, or is it common for people to apply to more than one with the intention of only doing one if accepted to both?

tonysoprano wrote:Regarding SPO selection process, what do people do if they definitely want to get involved with an SPO but are applying to a more competitive one such as Defenders or PLAP? Is it assumed that one will do the SPO if accepted, or is it common for people to apply to more than one with the intention of only doing one if accepted to both?

PLAP doesn't have a selection process. They just take everyone. A lot of people who do PLAP also do Defenders.

It is generally assumed that you will do Defenders if you're accepted, but you don't have to.

Before it's misunderstood, though, the fact that Defenders is more difficult to get into doesn't mean it's more "prestigious." They're only able to rep in certain districts and thus have a comparatively small number of cases to staff. They don't want to spread too many people over too few cases. That's why they bother with the interviews; they don't need as many people so they can afford to be more selective about it.

tonysoprano wrote:Thanks for the informative responses. I have a tech background and am interested in startups, so HLEP sounds like it could be good fit if I decide to do corporate. Have you guys ever seen (or, if not, could you potentially see) any of the students getting further involved with the businesses beyond what the project entails? I'm just trying to get a better idea of what participation is like.

I just want to add something based on the bold part of your response. Please know this is meant as general advice not targeted specifically at you, but your post made me think of it.

I understand where you're coming from when you say that. I think many of the people admitted to HLS are planners - they want to have an outline they can follow because it makes them feel like they have more control, or it gives them a goal to focus on, or whatever. But you're not going to make an informed decision about corp vs. lit in the next two months before you can join an SPO, so I'd caution against choosing SPOs and clinics based solely on how they fit into a plan that you made before even arriving at law school. If you think you might like tech/start-ups, try HLEP for a semester. If you don't like it, try something else the next semester. Or even do 2 SPOs in the same semester; the time commitment is small enough for many of them that this is totally doable.

I also think SPOs are going to be more helpful than classes when it comes to informing your decision of corp vs lit (to the extent that you actually have to choose). Between SPOs and your 1L summer gig, there's plenty of time to try out different things to create a "story" about what you want to do 2L summer and beyond.

robotrick wrote:But you're not going to make an informed decision about corp vs. lit in the next two months before you can join an SPO, so I'd caution against choosing SPOs and clinics based solely on how they fit into a plan that you made before even arriving at law school.

+1. If you know for certain that you want to do corporate or litigation before you start as a summer associate, your choice was probably under-informed. Not that people don't do that (especially students who go to all-lit firms), but you don't need to weave together a two-year story about how your background leads you to that specific practice group.

Every thing I've ever done before law school, during law school, during my 1L summer, etc. has been litigation focused. Here's my convincing story about why I want to do Corporate: "One time I tried a Corporate project." That's it. Every Corporate partner loves it and assumes that's all it should take.

Totally agree with where you're all coming from. I'm potentially interested in both, that's why I want to do an SPO as a 1L. I've heard from multiple sources that those types of involvement are a great way to actually get a feel for what it's like to practice in different areas. Thanks for the feedback