Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
despina
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby despina » Tue Mar 31, 2015 9:37 am

Fred Norris wrote:1. How important is alumni network? The reason I ask - and I sort of brought this up on another thread - is that the common wisdom is to go to Y instead of H. But if alumni network is so critical, then why would anyone in their right mind go to Yale? I've just become highly skeptical of late regarding the common wisdom. For the record, I do think alumni network is a big deal - which is why I remain skeptical of the Y over H argument.


As MyNameIsFlynn! and acrossthelake say, the importance of the alumni network varies depending on what you want to do. If you want to go and stay biglaw, then HYS are all great. If you want to be in a more niche field, stay in the Boston area, work internationally, work in federal government, etc, then our alumni network will definitely come into play for you.

tomwatts wrote:Because HLS is so much larger, the alumni network is broader, which can help if you're interested in a niche field. This has come in handy for me a couple of times.


Me too. Whatever random practice area / geographic area I can think of, the people at OCS and the Office for Public Interest Advising can name three or twenty people off the top of their head who are doing it and would be happy to hear from you.

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acrossthelake
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby acrossthelake » Tue Mar 31, 2015 10:07 am

fred013 wrote:how many black letter courses should i take 2L?


Now that I work, I am grateful for every BLL course I ever took and am whatever about the rest. But that might be more specific to me, so take it with a grain of salt.

Fred Norris
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby Fred Norris » Tue Mar 31, 2015 11:09 am

Thanks for they insight, guys!

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Nonconsecutive
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby Nonconsecutive » Tue Mar 31, 2015 4:58 pm

acrossthelake wrote:
fred013 wrote:how many black letter courses should i take 2L?


Now that I work, I am grateful for every BLL course I ever took and am whatever about the rest. But that might be more specific to me, so take it with a grain of salt.


Even compared to clinics? I was really thinking of going the Moar Clinic Less BLL route.

hlsperson1111
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby hlsperson1111 » Tue Mar 31, 2015 7:27 pm

I agree with taking plenty of BLL classes. I find myself going back to stuff I learned in BLL classes (especially fed courts, corporations, and complex litigation) all the time.

Orion311
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby Orion311 » Wed Apr 01, 2015 1:52 am

Are all the residences relatively social (especially curious about North)? Are there RAs that organize events or anything like at undergrad dorms? I've heard Gropius is great for people who want to make friends with the people they live with, but how is North Hall? (I'm personally not considering Hastings).

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jingosaur
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby jingosaur » Wed Apr 01, 2015 2:34 am

Orion311 wrote:Are all the residences relatively social (especially curious about North)? Are there RAs that organize events or anything like at undergrad dorms? I've heard Gropius is great for people who want to make friends with the people they live with, but how is North Hall? (I'm personally not considering Hastings).


North Hall is a little bit more anti-social just because the only shared space on the floors is the kitchen, but people are still pretty sociable. If you make an effort or if you're just very extroverted, you'll make some friends in North.

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acrossthelake
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby acrossthelake » Wed Apr 01, 2015 10:45 am

Nonconsecutive wrote:
acrossthelake wrote:
fred013 wrote:how many black letter courses should i take 2L?


Now that I work, I am grateful for every BLL course I ever took and am whatever about the rest. But that might be more specific to me, so take it with a grain of salt.


Even compared to clinics? I was really thinking of going the Moar Clinic Less BLL route.


Absolutely. BLL strikes the right balance between generalizable theory and application. There just isn't enough time in a day for me to learn the background of most of my BLL classes on the job, but having that background makes it a lot easier to learn specific new things for my job. I don't actually feel like clinics are that helpful unless you plan to go into public interest, in which case I think they're very recommended. Again, other alums may have different experiences working diff jobs. I have one friend who is a biglaw lit associate who is grateful she mastered the bluebook through journal work, while I haven't had to bluebook a single thing. Etc.

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ChemEng1642
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby ChemEng1642 » Wed Apr 01, 2015 11:47 am

Anyone taken the cyber law clinic? Thoughts on that?

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codyoneill
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby codyoneill » Wed Apr 01, 2015 11:51 am

Anyone have thoughts about Alma Cohen?

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Nonconsecutive
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby Nonconsecutive » Wed Apr 01, 2015 8:32 pm

acrossthelake wrote:
Nonconsecutive wrote:
acrossthelake wrote:
fred013 wrote:how many black letter courses should i take 2L?


Now that I work, I am grateful for every BLL course I ever took and am whatever about the rest. But that might be more specific to me, so take it with a grain of salt.


Even compared to clinics? I was really thinking of going the Moar Clinic Less BLL route.


Absolutely. BLL strikes the right balance between generalizable theory and application. There just isn't enough time in a day for me to learn the background of most of my BLL classes on the job, but having that background makes it a lot easier to learn specific new things for my job. I don't actually feel like clinics are that helpful unless you plan to go into public interest, in which case I think they're very recommended. Again, other alums may have different experiences working diff jobs. I have one friend who is a biglaw lit associate who is grateful she mastered the bluebook through journal work, while I haven't had to bluebook a single thing. Etc.


Thanks! I am a PI hopeful, so that makes feel a bit better. However I'm still planing on taking some of the core BLL classes.

ddoodle
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby ddoodle » Fri Apr 03, 2015 3:49 pm

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See below for more details, and feel free to pm me with any questions.

http://boston.craigslist.org/gbs/roo/4959734473.html

Indigo12
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby Indigo12 » Sat Apr 04, 2015 1:47 pm

Questions re HLR:

1. So the writing comp is anon. Does that mean applicants are given anon IDs similar to exam IDs, or separate cover page with name on it, or what?

2. I've seen general & vague descriptions of the 14 "grade-on" spots as a "combination" of writing competition and their 1L grades. I've heard that every section is automatically allotted at least 2 spots, so the top 2 from each section who take the writing competition automatically get on, regardless of how well they do on that competition.

So are the 14 grade-on spots truly blind to writing comp scores, as long as you do it? Of course, no one can know for sure whether they're on pace to be top 2 in the section, so even someone with Hs & DSs should attempt the writing comp in good faith. But if the grade-on spots are blind to writing comp scores, could you theoretically get on by writing a bunch of gibberish on the writing comp?

3. The 20 spots allotted "solely on the basis of writing comp scores": Are the selectors truly blind to everything else in the package? As in, these 20 spots are determined solely based on a rank-ordering of writing comp scores, and the selectors can't find reasons to deny a top-20 scorer in the rest of the application package? Of course, if it's blind, then selectors should be indifferent between applicants, but it's at least conceivable that a selector could go "ok this person scored in the top 20 in writing comp...let's just look through the rest of his application really quickly...oh gosh his diversity statement claiming physical disability, while sympathetic, is littered with errors. He did score in the top 20, but let's toss it."

Basically, if an applicant plans to contend only for 1 of the 3 groups (write-on only, grade-on combo, diversity), can he submit only the materials relevant to that one group? So someone who plans to contend only for write-on would omit everything but the writing comp itself, someone who...grade-on combo..."does" the writing comp but only as a formality, and so on?

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ph14
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby ph14 » Sat Apr 04, 2015 1:52 pm

Indigo12 wrote:Questions re HLR:

1. If current editors (not sure if this includes exiting 3Ls) are the ones grading the writing competition, are 1Ls given something similar to an anonymous ID? Or is there a conflicts system in place similar to what the BSAs do, which is that a current BSA can't evaluate an applicant they know personally, whether the relationship is sweet or sour.

2. I've seen general & vague descriptions of the 14 "grade-on" spots as a "combination of writing competition and their 1L grades." I've heard that every section is automatically allotted at least 2 spots, so the top 2 from each section who take the writing competition automatically get on, regardless of how well they do on that competition.

So are the 14 grade-on spots truly blind to writing comp scores, as long as you do it? Of course, no one can know for sure whether they're on pace to be top 2 in the section, so even someone with Hs & DSs should attempt the writing comp in good faith. But if the grade-on spots are blind to writing comp scores, could you theoretically get on by writing a bunch of gibberish on the writing comp?

3. The 20 spots allotted "solely on the basis of writing comp scores": Are the selectors truly blind to everything else in the package? As in, these 20 spots are determined solely based on a rank-ordering of writing comp scores, and the selectors can't find reasons to deny a top-20 scorer in the rest of the application package? Of course, if it's blind, then selectors should be indifferent between applicants, but it's at least conceivable that a selector would go "ok this person scored in the top 20 in writing comp...let's just look through the rest of his application really quickly...oh gosh his diversity statement claiming physical disability, while sympathetic, is littered with errors. He did score in the top 20, but let's toss it."

Basically, if an applicant plans to contend only for 1 of the groups (write-on only, grade-on combo, diversity), can he submit only the materials relevant to that one group? So someone who plans to contend only for write-on would omit everything but the writing comp itself, someone who...grade-on combo..."does" the writing comp but only as a formality, and so on?


1. Yes, you get an anonymous competition number. It's double-blind graded.
2. No. It's a combination of the grades and writing competition score. The best 2 on this metric get an invitation. So, for example, if the #3 person and #4 person in terms of GPA in a section earn enough points to compensate for the difference between the #1 and #2 person they might get the 2 spots allotted for each section.
3. Yes. And there is no diversity or personal statement in the write-on (at least while I was at HLS). Edit: I've been informed HLR has implemented an optional diversity statement this year.

To your last question, no. You submit your application, generally. You might get an invitation through one of the several paths, but you will never be told that and indeed no one will ever know which path led to your invitation.

The HLR write-on competition is run very professionally. It is not worth stressing out about anything on that end. Focus on submitting the best write-on packet you can (and following directions to the letter).
Last edited by ph14 on Sat Apr 04, 2015 5:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Indigo12
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby Indigo12 » Sat Apr 04, 2015 3:42 pm

I'm writing a Clark Corps practice exam this weekend. I'll be back online when I'm done (most likely later this evening, or if I go out, tomorrow). Any past/current Clark takers want to look it over? PM or reply

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ph14
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby ph14 » Sat Apr 04, 2015 5:20 pm

Indigo12 wrote:I'm writing a Clark Corps practice exam this weekend. I'll be back online when I'm done (most likely later this evening, or if I go out, tomorrow). Any past/current Clark takers want to look it over? PM or reply


Compare it to an H exam from past years. There are some old exam answers floating out there.

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malleus discentium
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby malleus discentium » Sat Apr 04, 2015 5:31 pm

TripTrip wrote:TLS pro tip: use Google search by site and throw the thread ID in the search bar in quotes to look for answers to specific questions within a specific thread.

For example:

Code: Select all

site:top-law-schools.com "t=141188" spring elective

https://www.google.com/search?q=site:to ... g+elective <--Shows every page of this thread where spring electives were discussed.

This post might be useful to fellow 1Ls looking to this thread for advice on specific professors :)

consideringtransfer
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby consideringtransfer » Sun Apr 05, 2015 2:25 pm

I am currently a 1L at CCN considering transferring to H. I was previously waitlisted-rejected. I was wondering what sort of grades would I need to realistically consider a transfer and whether there are any resources anyone can point me to?

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zor
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby zor » Sun Apr 05, 2015 3:03 pm

fred013 wrote:how many black letter courses should i take 2L?

Even compared to clinics? I was really thinking of going the Moar Clinic Less BLL route.

...

Thanks! I am a PI hopeful, so that makes feel a bit better. However I'm still planing on taking some of the core BLL classes.


I will be the dissent on this one. I'm PI and avoided BLLs as a 2L and 3L. I took Evidence (which everyone should take), but my BLLs were universally unpleasant experiences. I took a total of 5 and instead maxed out clinical credits and took lots of seminars and reading groups. All the BLL stuff I'll have to learn more specifically for the bar anyway, and I wanted to avoid competitive classes with curves that would drive me bonkers. Clinics are the best. Reminds me of why I want to be a lawyer, and best of all, no exams and no papers. No regrets!

wwwcol
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby wwwcol » Sun Apr 05, 2015 4:08 pm

zor wrote:
fred013 wrote:how many black letter courses should i take 2L?

Even compared to clinics? I was really thinking of going the Moar Clinic Less BLL route.

...

Thanks! I am a PI hopeful, so that makes feel a bit better. However I'm still planing on taking some of the core BLL classes.


I will be the dissent on this one. I'm PI and avoided BLLs as a 2L and 3L. I took Evidence (which everyone should take), but my BLLs were universally unpleasant experiences. I took a total of 5 and instead maxed out clinical credits and took lots of seminars and reading groups. All the BLL stuff I'll have to learn more specifically for the bar anyway, and I wanted to avoid competitive classes with curves that would drive me bonkers. Clinics are the best. Reminds me of why I want to be a lawyer, and best of all, no exams and no papers. No regrets!


It's good someone dissented, because there is no right answer, folks. If you like BLL, take those; if you like seminars, take those. If you hate the classroom, then take clinics. Not rocket science... at this point in our education, people should have an idea how they want to spend their time.

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TripTrip
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby TripTrip » Sun Apr 05, 2015 10:40 pm

wwwcol wrote:It's good someone dissented, because there is no right answer, folks. If you like BLL, take those; if you like seminars, take those. If you hate the classroom, then take clinics. Not rocket science... at this point in our education, people should have an idea how they want to spend their time.

+1

Reading groups and seminars FTW.

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BlakcMajikc
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby BlakcMajikc » Mon Apr 06, 2015 9:29 am

TripTrip wrote:
wwwcol wrote:It's good someone dissented, because there is no right answer, folks. If you like BLL, take those; if you like seminars, take those. If you hate the classroom, then take clinics [or write for independent research credit]. Not rocket science... at this point in our education, people should have an idea how they want to spend their time.

+1

Reading groups and seminars FTW.


+1 w/ slight edit.

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Searchparty
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby Searchparty » Mon Apr 06, 2015 1:18 pm

Will throw in my two cents.

Never taken a clinic, but something I had heard from SOME people that have taken clinics is that it's less actual law and more client-relations. Obviously this varies by clinic. I don't have time for clinics due to other commitments, but I think that if the clinic is one semester is honestly can't hurt if you're really that interested.

BLL versus seminars/RG/papers:
Writing papers can be a bitch, but even for someone who has ALWAYS preferred taking exams, I much preferred seminars with no final exam. That said, none of my classes required an extensive paper (we were required to submit weekly responses which I much prefer to deferring to the end when finals are approaching). This left me with two exams and a week to study for each--beautiful. I would do that again and again.

I am currently trying to finish up my winter writing paper and it has been so much more work than any two credit class.

There is something relaxing about taking BLL: they are structured, there are many outlines to assist you, they do not require any assignments during the semester, and as many have noted, they might actual provide you with knowledge to be used in practice.

Seminars on the other hand seem to provide a more academic experience. I greatly enjoy this despite the fact that I doubt I'll ever use this knowledge ever again. Depending on the seminar though, it could also have a lot of reading and you might have much more at stake to ACTUALLY read if participation and discussion is a big component of your grade. Of course, you could always half-ass your readings, participate as best you can, and then never have to worry about the material again because you have no exam.

Also, because (most) seminars are 2 credits, you might actually end up with more classes to meet your credit requirements, than say three 4 credit BLL classes. Trade-off.

despina
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby despina » Mon Apr 06, 2015 2:08 pm

Clinics, like other classes, vary a LOT in terms of workload, and what your actual work is.

Some are definitely client-relations / interviewing skills heavy, while others are more heavy on black letter law, legal research and writing, etc, while still others are heavy on courtroom skills. I've definitely learned a lot of law in clinics.

lawlorbust
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby lawlorbust » Mon Apr 06, 2015 3:57 pm

14th with Feldman or Klarman?




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