Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
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wtrc
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby wtrc » Sat Jan 31, 2015 7:57 pm

BlakcMajikc wrote:
wtrc wrote:How important is it for 1L's to do a SPO?


What is wrong with you people. I need to stop wasting time answering questions in this thread. 99% of the time the questions are exactly the same:
should I do [insert extracurricular] or have [award/grade/honors] to do [EIP/clerk/name firm]?
The answer is always a mix of (1) it depends and/or (2) follow your passion.
Stop looking around and stay in your lane. You're at HLS --> I promise it'll work out.


Haha, I mean, free to stop "wasting time" answering questions you deem to be bad ones in this thread. It's a fairly common -- and perhaps nearly universal -- perception among 1L's that SPO's are important, and I think a lot of people wonder how important it is for their "lanes" to include, at least generally, extracurricular activities. I'm not sure what kind of questions you find legitimate here, but thanks for your input.

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fats provolone
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby fats provolone » Sat Jan 31, 2015 7:59 pm

don't listen to blackmajikc he's forgotten what it's like to be a neurotic 1L

the answer to your question is 7

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wtrc
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby wtrc » Sat Jan 31, 2015 8:27 pm

fats provolone wrote:don't listen to blackmajikc he's forgotten what it's like to be a neurotic 1L

the answer to your question is 7


Is 7 enough though?! I feel like only 7 SPO's might be a red flag to potential employers

fred013
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby fred013 » Sat Jan 31, 2015 9:12 pm

serious ?

can i get to DC with 1H from first sem

thx

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Mr. Elshal
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby Mr. Elshal » Sat Jan 31, 2015 9:16 pm

wtrc wrote:How important is it for 1L's to do a SPO?


It's important in the sense that (1) it gives you another thing to talk about in job interviews and (2) it may put you in touch with people who can potentially hire you. Depending on the SPO, it can also (3) give you a sense of what it's like to interface with a client.

Number 1 is more relevant for people with very little to talk about (e.g., K-JD with no real work experience or extracurriculars). This is also a debatable benefit because your 1L summer job will likely give you some good material to speak about. Also, other extracurriculars can give the same benefit. If there's an SPO that does what you'd like to be doing in your career, or something close to it, then it may give you better talking points, but that's a judgment call that you'll have to make.

Number 2 is possible but unlikely. I was (the equivalent of) second-in-command of an SPO by the end of my 1L year and was working pretty closely with three firms. One firm fast-tracked me to a call-back but the other two didn't take me past the first round. No offers from any of them. So, like I said, possible but unlikely (I have heard stories of other people getting positions this way).

Number 3 is very important if you've never worked in an office environment (although different SPOs may give you different exposure to this). I have seen horrifying quantities of HLS students who don't know how to write an email to a client or draft an actual client memo (rather than an LRW memo, which is not the right way to communicate with a client), and who have no sense of what to do in a client intake meeting. These are all useful skills, but not skills you necessarily need to pick up right now.

In short, it can be useful but is not necessary.

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Nonconsecutive
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby Nonconsecutive » Sat Jan 31, 2015 9:29 pm

Just another 1L, so I can't comment much on long-term importance. But I have to say, doing client phone calls and interacting with clients with my SPO is undoubtedly the most useful experience (I think) I've gotten from law school so far.

fred013
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby fred013 » Sat Jan 31, 2015 10:35 pm

fred here. checking in.

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TripTrip
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby TripTrip » Sat Jan 31, 2015 11:34 pm

fred013 wrote:can i get to DC with 1H from first sem
Yes. I know someone with all Ps first semester who got multiple offers in DC. There's also plenty of stats to back that up.

lawbeahs
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby lawbeahs » Sun Feb 01, 2015 1:45 am

How do employers look at DS grades? Like would 3P, 2DS be considered equal to 1P, 4H? Or is it considered worse?

tomwatts
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby tomwatts » Sun Feb 01, 2015 1:53 am

lawbeahs wrote:How do employers look at DS grades? Like would 3P, 2DS be considered equal to 1P, 4H? Or is it considered worse?

Asked and answered back on page 220 of this topic.

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Lovely Ludwig Van
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby Lovely Ludwig Van » Sun Feb 01, 2015 11:46 am

lawbeahs wrote:How do employers look at DS grades? Like would 3P, 2DS be considered equal to 1P, 4H? Or is it considered worse?


I'd much rather have 4Hs. Makes you look like a more consistent performer.

fred013
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby fred013 » Sun Feb 01, 2015 11:48 am

fwiw i have heard DS matter a lot for the elite (i.e. wachtell, cravath, s&c, w&c, munger, boies) but besides that not at all

EvelynS
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby EvelynS » Mon Feb 02, 2015 8:51 pm

Did anyone take law and economics with Prof. Kaplow? Workload? How in-depth the assignments should be? I am deciding whether to drop this class, but we did not have the first class yet (due to a snowstorm).

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ballcaps
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby ballcaps » Mon Feb 02, 2015 9:02 pm

fats provolone wrote:don't listen to blackmajikc he's forgotten what it's like to be a neurotic 1L

the answer to your question is 7


175

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Pneumonia
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby Pneumonia » Mon Feb 02, 2015 9:09 pm

When do we elect classes for Fall / receive fall schedules?
When does the EIP bidding period begin?

tomwatts
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby tomwatts » Mon Feb 02, 2015 9:29 pm

April and July, respectively.

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TripTrip
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby TripTrip » Mon Feb 02, 2015 10:40 pm

Speaking of, what else should be in The Better Course Catalog this year?

I didn't do spring, but I'll be doing fall. We're working on listing waitlist processing times for every class so it's easier to preference courses.

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lawschool22
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby lawschool22 » Mon Feb 02, 2015 10:52 pm

tomwatts wrote:April and July, respectively.


Is there any sort of advising available? Or do we just talk to Professors, 2Ls/3Ls, etc.

(My limited experience with HLS suggests the answer will be "no" :lol: )

Edit: This question is referring to course selection not EIP advising.
Last edited by lawschool22 on Mon Feb 02, 2015 11:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Single-Malt-Liquor
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby Single-Malt-Liquor » Mon Feb 02, 2015 10:54 pm

lawschool22 wrote:
tomwatts wrote:April and July, respectively.


Is there any sort of advising available? Or do we just talk to Professors, 2Ls/3Ls, etc.


There is so much time between now and then that you should really just focus on class and not /selfing. I mean have the 2014 stats even been released yet?

Come back in June/July.

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lawschool22
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby lawschool22 » Mon Feb 02, 2015 11:03 pm

Single-Malt-Liquor wrote:
lawschool22 wrote:
tomwatts wrote:April and July, respectively.


Is there any sort of advising available? Or do we just talk to Professors, 2Ls/3Ls, etc.


There is so much time between now and then that you should really just focus on class and not /selfing. I mean have the 2014 stats even been released yet?

Come back in June/July.


Oh I wasn't planning on doing anything like that now. I was just curious since we were on the topic.

Edit: To clarify, I was talking about course selection, not EIP.

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TripTrip
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby TripTrip » Mon Feb 02, 2015 11:11 pm

There is lots of advising for EIP. None for course selection.

It makes sense when you think about it though. What courses you take are important to you because you have to be in each of them for 11.6 hours per credit, but they will probably never matter besides that.

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Doorkeeper
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby Doorkeeper » Mon Feb 02, 2015 11:55 pm

TripTrip wrote:There is lots of advising for EIP. None for course selection.

It makes sense when you think about it though. What courses you take are important to you because you have to be in each of them for 11.6 hours per credit, but they will probably never matter besides that.

To take the cynical route, they also matter because they give you the grades that help to determine things that matter to HLS kids, such as firms and clerkships.

To that end, delineating which courses are basically auto-Hs would be a good thing to do if you're actually making some sort of course guide.

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Pneumonia
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby Pneumonia » Tue Feb 03, 2015 12:20 am

I have a preliminary interest in litigation and thus in clerking.

Mostly for the experience, but also for the networking and resume-building. My target market is Texas/the South and so that's where I'm looking to clerk. Interested in Fed but also state supreme courts.

What is the normal advice / prereq's to maximize chances? Seems like grades (especially LRW) would matter, and also journal experience, but to what degree? Does that advice differ for Texas/ the South?

tomwatts
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby tomwatts » Tue Feb 03, 2015 2:19 am

lawschool22 wrote:Is there any sort of advising available? Or do we just talk to Professors, 2Ls/3Ls, etc.

There is a little bit, but frankly it's not very good advising.

There are obvious things to know — the professor matters much more than the course title, for example — and somewhat less obvious things. It might be helpful to look into how in-demand the course is (e.g., about a third of the 2Ls/3Ls preference Klarman's 14th Amendment as their #1), whether the class has good outlines and exams readily available, or whether the professor is particularly well-connected in a way that might be useful for your interests (clerkships, a PI field).
Doorkeeper wrote:To that end, delineating which courses are basically auto-Hs would be a good thing to do if you're actually making some sort of course guide.

Because the grade distribution is recommended for any class over 30 students, it seems hard to believe that there are any auto-H's among large-ish classes. However, it might be interesting (and easily programmable) to include class size and differentiate between classes with 30+ students and classes under that number.
Pneumonia wrote:What is the normal advice / prereq's to maximize chances? Seems like grades (especially LRW) would matter, and also journal experience, but to what degree? Does that advice differ for Texas/ the South?

Clerkship hiring is incredibly idiosyncratic. Read OCS's pages on it to start yourself out. Obviously, grades, journal experience, etc., matter, but personal connections matter more than you would expect — RA-ing for a professor who personally knows a judge to whom you're applying, for example — so do what you can to get close to well-connected profs.

Also, the timeline has totally blown up. OCS tracks this on their blog.

juzam_djinn
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby juzam_djinn » Tue Feb 03, 2015 2:24 am

Doorkeeper wrote:
TripTrip wrote:There is lots of advising for EIP. None for course selection.

It makes sense when you think about it though. What courses you take are important to you because you have to be in each of them for 11.6 hours per credit, but they will probably never matter besides that.

To take the cynical route, they also matter because they give you the grades that help to determine things that matter to HLS kids, such as firms and clerkships.

To that end, delineating which courses are basically auto-Hs would be a good thing to do if you're actually making some sort of course guide.


are there actually any courses that are known to be easy H's? don't all courses still have to adhere to the 30% H/rest P rule?




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