Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
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Single-Malt-Liquor
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby Single-Malt-Liquor » Thu Dec 04, 2014 1:16 pm

hlsperson1111 wrote:WRT Boston, I think it depends on whether you are targeting RG/WH/GP or firms like Nutter, Choate, etc. I think it also depends on whether you have a plausible reason you want to practice in and stay in Boston. If you really want to shore up your ties, you can always spend 1L summer in Boston - it's a good way to signal that you're serious about practicing law here.


This is accurate. I stayed in Boston, also, told a compelling story about why I wanted to work here and received callbacks/offers from just about all of the Boston firms, and with median grades. If they ask if you're interviewing anywhere else, just tell them that OCS forced you to look at some NYC firms but you're really committed to Boston. Buzz words to include are collegiality, repeated interactions, reputation, Cape Cod (for srs, mention the Cape and watch a partner's eyes light up, just be prepared to have a favorite place out there).

Also, almost everyone I saw that was really upset during OCI bid heavily on D.C.

robotrick
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby robotrick » Fri Dec 12, 2014 9:26 am

So how bad is it really to get all Ps, at least in the first semester? I know it's early to worry about that, but I truly do think it's the most likely outcome for me.

acrossthelake
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby acrossthelake » Fri Dec 12, 2014 10:51 am

robotrick wrote:So how bad is it really to get all Ps, at least in the first semester? I know it's early to worry about that, but I truly do think it's the most likely outcome for me.


I know someone who got all Ps first semester who is now working at Cravath.

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fats provolone
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby fats provolone » Fri Dec 12, 2014 11:04 am

acrossthelake wrote:
robotrick wrote:So how bad is it really to get all Ps, at least in the first semester? I know it's early to worry about that, but I truly do think it's the most likely outcome for me.

I know someone who got all Ps first semester who is now working at Cravath.

so pretty bad, then
Last edited by fats provolone on Fri Dec 12, 2014 1:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

KaNa1986
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby KaNa1986 » Fri Dec 12, 2014 1:54 pm

fats provolone wrote:
acrossthelake wrote:
robotrick wrote:So how bad is it really to get all Ps, at least in the first semester? I know it's early to worry about that, but I truly do think it's the most likely outcome for me.

so pretty bad, then
I know someone who got all Ps first semester who is now working at Cravath.


Just do your best. People with straight P's during the 1L fall gets BigLaw jobs in NYC, DC, SF, Boston, etc., even though unless they do really well during the spring term, Wachtell, W&C, S&C, Cravath, etc. are out. People often get V10's with one or two H's for the whole year.

tomwatts
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby tomwatts » Fri Dec 12, 2014 3:41 pm

I know someone who had an unusual situation where her grades didn't matter and who was shooting for all P's her first semester. She accidentally got one H. It really is that random.
Last edited by tomwatts on Fri Dec 12, 2014 7:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

robotrick
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby robotrick » Fri Dec 12, 2014 5:20 pm

I'll take a chill pill then :D . I'm not gunning for anything special in terms of jobs

Fred012
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby Fred012 » Sat Dec 13, 2014 1:25 am

five more chances to get Hs next semester

rabbit5000
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby rabbit5000 » Sat Dec 13, 2014 2:14 am

And what happens if you get an LP? How badly would you say you have to screw up an exam to get one? I know it varies by exam and by professor, but personally I'm okay with an H or two or even zero, so long as I don't get end up with something like 4 Ps and an LP. I had an exam the other day where I felt sick and didn't perform too well, so I'm slightly worried.

Fred012
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby Fred012 » Sat Dec 13, 2014 3:31 am

lol @ only being "ok" with 2 Hs. thats above median at Harvard Law School.

rabbit5000
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby rabbit5000 » Sat Dec 13, 2014 5:43 am

Relax. I said I'd be satisfied with 0-2. 2 would obviously make me quite happy

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MyNameIsFlynn!
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby MyNameIsFlynn! » Sat Dec 13, 2014 12:49 pm

This is a really strange dialogue. What are the odds this is the same troll from before - 95%? 100%? Once again y'all, let's make sure not to respond to rabbit5000 or fred012.

Fred012 wrote:five more chances to get Hs next semester

rabbit5000 wrote:And what happens if you get an LP? How badly would you say you have to screw up an exam to get one? I know it varies by exam and by professor, but personally I'm okay with an H or two or even zero, so long as I don't get end up with something like 4 Ps and an LP. I had an exam the other day where I felt sick and didn't perform too well, so I'm slightly worried.

Fred012 wrote:lol @ only being "ok" with 2 Hs. thats above median at Harvard Law School.

rabbit5000 wrote:Relax. I said I'd be satisfied with 0-2. 2 would obviously make me quite happy

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nothingtosee
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby nothingtosee » Sat Dec 13, 2014 12:57 pm

How are the adjectives/nouns on HLSdope chosen?

cheese
salmon
Hufflepuff

tomwatts
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby tomwatts » Sat Dec 13, 2014 4:27 pm

MyNameIsFlynn! wrote:This is a really strange dialogue. What are the odds this is the same troll from before - 95%? 100%? Once again y'all, let's make sure not to respond to rabbit5000 or fred012.

I don't see anything wrong with rabbit5000's posts, and it's a common concern around this time, so here goes.
rabbit5000 wrote:How badly would you say you have to screw up an exam to get one?

Pretty badly. Even for a prof who gives the maximum number of LPs, there are only about 6 in a section of 80. And LPs are discretionary, so a prof doesn't have to give any, and most don't unless you royally screw up everything. Not just a little bit. Like, you actually got everything wrong on the entire exam. So it's pretty unlikely.
rabbit5000 wrote:And what happens if you get an LP?

Not a lot. You have to talk to OCS about how you're going to adjust your bidding strategy for EIP (if you're doing EIP) and how you're going to deal with it in interviews. But people do get LPs, and they end up employed (generally at a less grade-selective firm). It's a bit limiting, but it's not the end of the world, as long as you handle it appropriately.

rabbit5000
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby rabbit5000 » Sat Dec 13, 2014 6:32 pm

a) I'm not Fred02. Two 1Ls asking about grades must be the same person!
b) Thanks, tomwatts, that was very helpful. I don't think I screwed up that badly, so I should be safe.

Fred012
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby Fred012 » Sun Dec 14, 2014 3:01 am

actually jk i am rabbit


LOL

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TripTrip
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby TripTrip » Sun Dec 14, 2014 9:15 am

nothingtosee wrote:How are the adjectives/nouns on HLSdope chosen?

cheese
salmon
Hufflepuff

I wrote the master list after a couple beers.

Oh my. I went and looked at the original code I wrote to see how it actually works.
It's hideous. I could submit it to /r/shittyprogramming. You don't want to know what's going on behind the scenes.

Mista Bojangles
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby Mista Bojangles » Sun Dec 14, 2014 11:40 am

My perception re: LPs is they're really rare. There used to be significantly more given, but my understanding is basically that: "nicer" professors began giving fewer of them, and as the LP became increasingly rare, even "non-nice" professors noticed and increasingly understood that the growing rarity of an LP made it an especially brutal mark to give someone. So they in turn now give fewer, because they understand that the LP's rarity means it will stand out even more egregiously on a transcript.

Basically, LP has become a specially reserved scarlet letter rather than an actual, normal "grade" on the scale. The professor is seriously shitting on you by giving you an LP, and knows this. So I don't think many profs give LPs for performance that is merely very poor but still good-faith. That's not a good enough reason for them to want to make your life harder. You have to manage to make it personal, to personally piss them off. So just don't do that :)

Though to be clear, an LP doesn't mean your life is over, just means you have a somewhat more uphill battle as per tomwatts above

despina
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby despina » Sun Dec 14, 2014 12:18 pm

I think some profs' attitudes / policies have changed as Mista Bojangles says. I also think plenty of profs regularly give LP's and don't necessarily reserve it for "you actually got everything wrong on the entire exam" as Tom Watts says.

I also think our perception of how many LP's are out there is a bit distorted because people are more likely to tell their friends when they got a DS and keep it to themselves when they get an LP. I definitely know folks who were surprised to get LPs on exams they felt decent about, and of course on the flipside, many of us have had the experience of walking out of an exam thinking "well that was a total disaster, LP for sure" and then getting an H. That's the beauty of the curve.

I wonder if some LPs also come from failure not to understand the material, but to understand what the prof wants. For example, on a non-word-limited exam where the prof's attitude is just "rack up points by flagging as many issues as possible," then a 2000-word exam that carefully explores just 3 issues and related policy implications, which might easily get an H from a prof with a different style, might end up at the bottom of the curve.

So basically: grades are very difficult to predict, you probably won't get an LP if you make a decent effort but it's definitely possible. And as others have said, you still have great career prospects and an LP doesn't mean you're dumb. It's a total waste of time and effort right now to try to predict your grades. Just do your best, see how it shakes out, and talk to OCS / OPIA in the spring if you have concerns once you know where you stand.

Fred012
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby Fred012 » Wed Dec 17, 2014 2:06 pm

Will 3 H's first sem (assume 6 on the year) take any opportunities off the table? Feeder clerkships? Wachtell? Cravath?

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Single-Malt-Liquor
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby Single-Malt-Liquor » Wed Dec 17, 2014 2:09 pm

Fred012 wrote:Will 3 H's first sem (assume 6 on the year) take any opportunities off the table? Feeder clerkships? Wachtell? Cravath?


Seriously?

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jbagelboy
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby jbagelboy » Wed Dec 17, 2014 3:03 pm

Single-Malt-Liquor wrote:
Fred012 wrote:Will 3 H's first sem (assume 6 on the year) take any opportunities off the table? Feeder clerkships? Wachtell? Cravath?


Seriously?


don't respond

NEdelton1987
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby NEdelton1987 » Wed Dec 17, 2014 4:50 pm

How hard is it to get on professors' consulting projects (the kind of work at the cutting edge of practice that pays few times more than the rate of a typical academic research assistant)? How do you get on those projects?

Fred012
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby Fred012 » Wed Dec 17, 2014 5:10 pm

Single-Malt-Liquor wrote:
Fred012 wrote:Will 3 H's first sem (assume 6 on the year) take any opportunities off the table? Feeder clerkships? Wachtell? Cravath?


Seriously?


yes serious ?. I'm guessing thats where i end up based off discussions with other students in my section after exams.

despina
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby despina » Wed Dec 17, 2014 5:17 pm

Fred012 wrote:
Single-Malt-Liquor wrote:
Fred012 wrote:Will 3 H's first sem (assume 6 on the year) take any opportunities off the table? Feeder clerkships? Wachtell? Cravath?


Seriously?


yes serious ?. I'm guessing thats where i end up based off discussions with other students in my section after exams.


Discussions with other students after exams gives you zero information about your grades. None. Unless literally 50 of your sectionmates tell you that they submitted a blank exam, or you submitted a blank exam and learned from your sectionmates that this is not the way to an H.

NEdelton1987 wrote:How hard is it to get on professors' consulting projects (the kind of work at the cutting edge of practice that pays few times more than the rate of a typical academic research assistant)? How do you get on those projects?


"How hard" depends on the professor, but generally, just talk to the prof, explain why you're interested, and ask if you can participate.




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