Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

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dm21998
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby dm21998 » Thu May 29, 2014 6:31 pm

tomwatts wrote:
dm21998 wrote:Maybe I had misstated. Alums to whom I spoke seemed to suggest that clearing a 4.0 was not going to cut it, so something comfortably above a 4.0 was required. Of course they couldn't know everyone's GPAs. Maybe all the magnas they knew had GPAs well into the 4.0s even though several other magnas had even 4.0s (or less).

Also, not trying to ruffle any tail feathers, but I had thought that it was not that difficult to pull of an equal number of DS and P grades? Maybe the population off of which I'm basing this opinion is biased. Not suggesting that 4.0 is a cake walk by any stretch. Was just my impression that a fairly large number of people pulled that off. Especially given how easy 2L and 3L year can be.

I think what's going on is this. There's a whole bunch of people who get between a 3.9 and a 4.0. But a relatively small number with above a 4.0 or 4.1. I would bet that there's a big clumping around like 3.95. So a substantial chunk would fall just above (magna) and a pretty substantial chunk just below (cum laude). Makes sense given how sparingly DS grades are handed out relative to H grades.

Man if that's the case, it has to really suck to be the 3.96 or whatever that falls just short of magna. But who cares about grades right.

Basically everything you're saying is wrong or unlikely. The cutoff for magna is roughly 3.9-4.0. The cutoff for cum laude is roughly 3.5-3.6. This means that 30% of the class gets between 3.5-3.6 and 3.9-4.0, and about 10% of the class gets above 3.9-4.0. This is pretty firmly established at this point (professors have said so, etc.).

Your hypothesis of clumping around 3.95 is implausible. If there were all that much clumping, the cum laude cutoff would be higher than it is.

2L and 3L are usually less work than 1L year (you're taking fewer credits) and less stress (you understand how classes work, you already have a job), but people's grades don't actually go up all that much. The grade distribution still applies to most of your classes, unless somehow you manage to take a majority of your classes as clinics and seminars (which most don't).


Not sure I see how what you said makes my guess wrong or unlikely. I think there's probably some sort of bulge (could be large, could be small) near the magna cutoff. You say the 60th %ile is 3.5-3.6 and the 90th %ile is 3.9-4.0. Okay, no arguments. But I'm making a guess about the shape of the distribution near the 90th %ile. Your two data points don't really make that much more or less likely. Unless what you're really saying is that the distribution between those two data points is like completely uniform. Or something like that. But that would completely separate from just saying that 60th %ile is at 3.5-3.6 and 90th %ile is at 3.9-4.0.

I mean, if 60th %ile were like, I don't know, 3.0 or something, then yeah. Maybe we'd have a live issue here. Cause then for there to be anything more than small bulge near the 90th you might end up with a pretty funny looking distribution curve. But then the curve would look funny anyway cause 60% of the class would have below a 3.0. Which would be weird. But that's just not the case.

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Doorkeeper
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby Doorkeeper » Thu May 29, 2014 10:37 pm

Finally checked my grades and there are multiple ones still missing. wtf? How can grades not be posted post-graduation?

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Mr. Elshal
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby Mr. Elshal » Fri May 30, 2014 2:43 am

Is the EIP employers list out yet? If so, where can I find it?

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MyNameIsFlynn!
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby MyNameIsFlynn! » Fri May 30, 2014 3:22 am

Doorkeeper wrote:Finally checked my grades and there are multiple ones still missing. wtf? How can grades not be posted post-graduation?


lmfao the registrar's slowness is absurd. The 1L deadline is allegedly June 13, and the 1Ls always seem to be the absolute last in line, so maybe you get grades by then at the latest?

Mr. Elshal wrote:Is the EIP employers list out yet? If so, where can I find it?


Symplicity under the OCI tab. It has both EIP and resume collection lists.

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Mr. Elshal
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby Mr. Elshal » Fri May 30, 2014 4:41 am

MyNameIsFlynn! wrote:
Doorkeeper wrote:Finally checked my grades and there are multiple ones still missing. wtf? How can grades not be posted post-graduation?


lmfao the registrar's slowness is absurd. The 1L deadline is allegedly June 13, and the 1Ls always seem to be the absolute last in line, so maybe you get grades by then at the latest?

Mr. Elshal wrote:Is the EIP employers list out yet? If so, where can I find it?


Symplicity under the OCI tab. It has both EIP and resume collection lists.


I don't have an OCI tab

tomwatts
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby tomwatts » Fri May 30, 2014 9:49 am

dm21998 wrote:Unless what you're really saying is that the distribution between those two data points is like completely uniform. Or something like that.

Something like that, yes. That is, not completely uniform, but no large bulges (and certainly not at just below the magna cutoff). Your reasons for postulating such a bulge are spurious.

dm21998
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby dm21998 » Fri May 30, 2014 6:56 pm

Wow. Well that was a pointless debate. Can't even. On a different note, does anyone know where I can find the graduation information? I don't mean Latin Honors. I mean all the other stuff.

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ph14
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby ph14 » Fri May 30, 2014 7:46 pm

dm21998 wrote:Wow. Well that was a pointless debate. Can't even. On a different note, does anyone know where I can find the graduation information? I don't mean Latin Honors. I mean all the other stuff.


What other stuff? There's a dedicated commencement website that includes a graduation checklist.

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TripTrip
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby TripTrip » Sat May 31, 2014 10:50 am

Mr. Elshal wrote:
MyNameIsFlynn! wrote:
Doorkeeper wrote:Finally checked my grades and there are multiple ones still missing. wtf? How can grades not be posted post-graduation?


lmfao the registrar's slowness is absurd. The 1L deadline is allegedly June 13, and the 1Ls always seem to be the absolute last in line, so maybe you get grades by then at the latest?

Mr. Elshal wrote:Is the EIP employers list out yet? If so, where can I find it?


Symplicity under the OCI tab. It has both EIP and resume collection lists.


I don't have an OCI tab

You don't have an OCI tab on Symbplicity? https://law-harvard-csm.symplicity.com/students/

permapress
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby permapress » Sat May 31, 2014 8:41 pm

if i'm doing EIP, is it stupid to book a holiday around the first week of september?

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Mr. Elshal
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby Mr. Elshal » Sat May 31, 2014 9:15 pm

TripTrip wrote:
Mr. Elshal wrote:
MyNameIsFlynn! wrote:
Doorkeeper wrote:Finally checked my grades and there are multiple ones still missing. wtf? How can grades not be posted post-graduation?


lmfao the registrar's slowness is absurd. The 1L deadline is allegedly June 13, and the 1Ls always seem to be the absolute last in line, so maybe you get grades by then at the latest?

Mr. Elshal wrote:Is the EIP employers list out yet? If so, where can I find it?


Symplicity under the OCI tab. It has both EIP and resume collection lists.


I don't have an OCI tab

You don't have an OCI tab on Symbplicity? https://law-harvard-csm.symplicity.com/students/



No. Just: Home, Profile, Documents, Resources, Jobs, Employers, Clerkships, Surveys, Calendar

Am I looking in the wrong place?

Also, on this note, would anyone mind sending me the list in the meantime?

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acrossthelake
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby acrossthelake » Sat May 31, 2014 10:22 pm

permapress wrote:if i'm doing EIP, is it stupid to book a holiday around the first week of september?


Depends where you plan to interview and how good your odds are, but based more on the former than the latter. If you've got top-notch grades and plan to do NYC, nah, you'll be done well before the first week of September. This will probably still be the case even if your grades aren't top-notch, but is more guaranteed to be the case if they are. NYC moves fast. If you're going for hard markets, and if any of those are in California, there's a good (though not guaranteed) chance you'll still be interviewing then.

I'd book something you can cancel without feeling too guilty about.

tomwatts
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby tomwatts » Sat May 31, 2014 11:05 pm

Because of my joint degree (and other things), my classes started in the first week of September, and it sort of sucked for scheduling EIP callbacks, but it ended up working out. Even my California stuff got done by the end of the second week of EIP callbacks.
Last edited by tomwatts on Sun Jun 01, 2014 5:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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CSSNYC
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby CSSNYC » Sun Jun 01, 2014 8:25 am

In general, is there a good amount of second-hand furniture and apartment necessities still going for sale in mid/late August? I've noticed a ton of stuff going up for sale on the Harvard Grad Market facebook group, but most of it has to go ASAP. And HUH usually kicks tenants out in late June, so I'm wondering if there are still people moving out through August. Should I resign myself to having to buy mostly new furniture for my place?

ryan1888vandy
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby ryan1888vandy » Mon Jun 02, 2014 4:42 pm

dm21998 wrote:Can anyone confirm that a 3.97 made magna this year? I'm surprised if so. A couple alums told me they thought magna required above a 4.0. I also noticed that at least a few people from the c/o 2014 who landed pretty grade competitive clerkships did not make magna. Tough to believe that a less than H average (even number of DS and P grades) could land those clerkships, regardless of other qualifications. Maybe they stopped trying after they got their clerkships. But you can also pick and choose easy classes 3L year. Also seems crazy given that summa probably requires at least a 4.5. Would be a crazy spread if magna ran from 3.97 to 4.5 or 4.6 territory.


I finished with magna at 3.97. I'd be interested to hear where the actual cutoff was if anyone has data on that.

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nothingtosee
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby nothingtosee » Mon Jun 02, 2014 6:43 pm

How are harvard's grades turned into a numerical scale?

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acrossthelake
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby acrossthelake » Mon Jun 02, 2014 6:45 pm

nothingtosee wrote:How are harvard's grades turned into a numerical scale?


DS=5
H=4
P=3
LP=2
Fail=0

tomwatts
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby tomwatts » Mon Jun 02, 2014 7:35 pm

Also, look here for more on GPA. There's some wacky stuff, like calculating GPA for each year separately and then averaging.

despina
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby despina » Tue Jun 03, 2014 1:53 pm

tomwatts wrote:Also, look here for more on GPA. There's some wacky awesome stuff, like calculating GPA for each year separately and then averaging not letting your 1L year dominate your GPA just because you were forced to take an insane number of credits.


Fixed for ya! :)

delusional
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby delusional » Tue Jun 03, 2014 2:27 pm

Based on my own grades, I calculated that the curve was something like 30-40% DS, 30-40% H, and the remainder P. If that's true, magna cutoff is something like 4.45 and summa is like 5.0 or maybe 4.98.

despina
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby despina » Tue Jun 03, 2014 2:33 pm

delusional wrote:Based on my own grades, I calculated that the curve was something like 30-40% DS, 30-40% H, and the remainder P. If that's true, magna cutoff is something like 4.45 and summa is like 5.0 or maybe 4.98.


Lolwhat? Congrats on your stellar grades, but I have seen / heard nothing that would lead me to believe that DS is anything more than a few per class (MAYBE max 10% if the prof is super generous?), so you're obviously beating the curve. Also, we know that the magna cutoff is close to 4.0, not 4.45. Summa is just anyone who gets 4.75, and if no one gets that, whoever has the highest GPA.

ETA: conventional wisdom about the approximate grade distribution is in the OP; what you're suggesting would be a dramatic departure from the previous mandatory curve, actual data about GPA cutoffs for latin honors, and what profs actually say about how they individually grade. I'm not trying to tear you apart, I just don't want anybody to freak out at your assumption that your own grade distribution says anything at all about the curve.

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DoubleChecks
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby DoubleChecks » Tue Jun 03, 2014 2:56 pm

despina wrote:
tomwatts wrote:Also, look here for more on GPA. There's some wacky awesome stuff, like calculating GPA for each year separately and then averaging not letting your 1L year dominate your GPA just because you were forced to take an insane number of credits.


Fixed for ya! :)


I actually agree with tomwatts that it is wacky. You can abuse the system, say for your 3L year, take only courses that are credit only (like clinics and cross-register courses, etc.) and then 1-2 very, very easy seminars. Get H or DS in like 1-2 courses and bam, your whole 3L year is a 5.0 (to be weighted equally against your other 2 yrs). Heck, study abroad for a semester and make it even easier on yourself. Of course, getting a P in that one graded class would lower your GPA quite a bit, but what's there to lose, amirite? haha, just choose that 1 course with care.

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DoubleChecks
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby DoubleChecks » Tue Jun 03, 2014 2:57 pm

delusional wrote:Based on my own grades, I calculated that the curve was something like 30-40% DS, 30-40% H, and the remainder P. If that's true, magna cutoff is something like 4.45 and summa is like 5.0 or maybe 4.98.


Wow, this can't be right. From both anecdotal evidence and the numbers of people who made magna (in the upper 3.9's), this can't be the case haha...

despina
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby despina » Tue Jun 03, 2014 3:09 pm

DoubleChecks wrote:
despina wrote:
tomwatts wrote:Also, look here for more on GPA. There's some wacky awesome stuff, like calculating GPA for each year separately and then averaging not letting your 1L year dominate your GPA just because you were forced to take an insane number of credits.


Fixed for ya! :)


I actually agree with tomwatts that it is wacky. You can abuse the system, say for your 3L year, take only courses that are credit only (like clinics and cross-register courses, etc.) and then 1-2 very, very easy seminars. Get H or DS in like 1-2 courses and bam, your whole 3L year is a 5.0 (to be weighted equally against your other 2 yrs). Heck, study abroad for a semester and make it even easier on yourself. Of course, getting a P in that one graded class would lower your GPA quite a bit, but what's there to lose, amirite? haha, just choose that 1 course with care.


I mean, yeah, you could do that. But that scheme would still "help" you significantly even if the years weren't weighted equally (assuming you already had a good GPA prior to 3L).

In my mind it would be really stupid to plan any (much less all) of your courses around strategically raising your GPA -- why would you waste an entire year at HLS that you're going into massive debt for, just for a higher GPA in your final year which likely will have near-zero effect on your career (because by that time you already have a firm offer or clerkships, or you're applying for public interest jobs / fellowships which either don't care about grades or won't see your 3L grades anyway). Instead just take the classes you think will be interesting / useful, do your absolute best if you care a lot about grades, and let the chips fall where they may? It never occurred to me to prioritize the curve of a particular class over what I would actually get out of it.

Then again, from all the posting I'm seeing in this thread about strategically choosing classes to boost your GPA, it looks like not everyone necessarily sees it that way so... to each her own? If somebody "abuses the system" 3L year as you describe and graduates magna while I graduate plain cum laude, I guess we'll both be happy with the decisions we made.

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acrossthelake
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby acrossthelake » Tue Jun 03, 2014 3:46 pm

delusional wrote:Based on my own grades, I calculated that the curve was something like 30-40% DS, 30-40% H, and the remainder P. If that's true, magna cutoff is something like 4.45 and summa is like 5.0 or maybe 4.98.


:lol:




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