Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
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DoubleChecks
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby DoubleChecks » Sat Jan 07, 2012 1:59 pm

roranoa wrote:Ha ha, maybe I have but I didn't realize it. Maybe those people I didn't like in the past were the ones that people normally label "socially awkward"

But usually when I look at people I really don't care what they are like as long as they don't insult me or anything. I'm pretty tolerant with "weird" people.

I'm just asking if I might fit into a certain category where it is considered to be socially awkward.


I personally feel like I have met more "socially awkward" people since coming to law school (not necessarily in law school only); but then again, I also didn't know my classmates as well in undergrad where some classes were as large as 300 people...here, your whole year is but 550.

I don't think there is anything insulting about it. It is just...well...awkward. Imagine a hypothetical scenario where you are at a reception, go up to a young associate at a firm, and say hey X, how has it been? And he answers "good"...not in a mean way, just in a curt way. You ask a follow up question of what he's working on now; another one to two word response. He smiles and shuffles around, and silence ensues rather quickly. That is, in my mind, a good starting point for some social awkwardness haha.

tomwatts
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby tomwatts » Sat Jan 07, 2012 2:10 pm

I am continually astonished at the level of diversity (of all conceivable types) here, including international students, students from every part of the country, students from wildly different socioeconomic backgrounds, etc. I bet there's a certain amount of awkwardness because people are meeting other people who are very different from anything they're used to. But once you get past the initial surprise, it's fun rather than awkward.

I've only met a few people here I would call "socially awkward" as a general character trait rather than as a temporary consequence of the nature of our interaction (that is, people who actually are awkward, rather than people who acted awkwardly when we first met — just as I probably did). Awkwardness can encompass a broad range of things: tics of various sorts (saying "I see, I see," too often and in odd places), saying things that are unexpectedly personal in a group setting, stumbling over words egregiously when something concise and articulate is called for, and myriad others. These things happen to everyone at some point or another, but a few people do these things a lot more than most, and I suppose those people are awkward. I don't think there are more at HLS than anywhere else, though.

A lot of people want to stigmatize smart or academically dedicated people as socially awkward, maybe because smart kids often are when they're little, but in my experience, it's not really true by the time people reach high school or college (much less law school). Nonetheless, this idea may contribute to the inaccurate stereotype. (Sort of in the same way that the "more gunners at HLS" stereotype arises: well, they made it to HLS, so they must've done very well in school, so they must be competitive people, so they're all gunners. These are tremendous logical leaps, but they sound plausible if you don't really think about them. Equally, they made it to HLS, so they must have done very well in school, so they must have spent all their time studying and not interacting with other people, so they must be socially underdeveloped and awkward. Again, doesn't follow, but sounds plausible if you just nod along.)

roranoa
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby roranoa » Sat Jan 07, 2012 2:53 pm

DoubleChecks wrote:
roranoa wrote:Ha ha, maybe I have but I didn't realize it. Maybe those people I didn't like in the past were the ones that people normally label "socially awkward"

But usually when I look at people I really don't care what they are like as long as they don't insult me or anything. I'm pretty tolerant with "weird" people.

I'm just asking if I might fit into a certain category where it is considered to be socially awkward.


I personally feel like I have met more "socially awkward" people since coming to law school (not necessarily in law school only); but then again, I also didn't know my classmates as well in undergrad where some classes were as large as 300 people...here, your whole year is but 550.

I don't think there is anything insulting about it. It is just...well...awkward. Imagine a hypothetical scenario where you are at a reception, go up to a young associate at a firm, and say hey X, how has it been? And he answers "good"...not in a mean way, just in a curt way. You ask a follow up question of what he's working on now; another one to two word response. He smiles and shuffles around, and silence ensues rather quickly. That is, in my mind, a good starting point for some social awkwardness haha.


Wow, I guess there are some differences in our point of view. I admit that the hypo scenario you mentioned counts as an awkward one but I wouldn't think the person to be socially awkward by character. I would just think 'I guess he's not in a talking mood' or 'I guess he's preoccupied' or even 'hmmm....maybe this guy doesn't like me or something' Of course then again, if that person constantly displays such behavior without reason I would also be labeling him awkward.

I don't know, as I come to think of it, it is somewhat hard to describe or explain what a socially awkward person is like because it's about the constant general feeling you get when you're with a that particular person.
Last edited by roranoa on Sun Sep 23, 2012 12:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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kulshan
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby kulshan » Sat Jan 07, 2012 2:54 pm

One of my favorite web shorts follows an awkward protagonist.

sarahh
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby sarahh » Sat Jan 07, 2012 3:39 pm

ignatiusr wrote:Anybody play/know people who play HLS-specific intramural sports? I'm interested in basketball and tennis. I found websites for both sports, but the basketball site stopped updating last spring, and the tennis page hasn't been updated since 2005. I'm wondering if these leagues even exist anymore.


For tennis, there is no league, just an e-mail list. They periodically send out e-mails saying they booked a court for certain time.

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Blessedassurance
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby Blessedassurance » Sat Jan 07, 2012 4:42 pm

1. What's the absolute lowest price range one can expect to pay for a 1-bedroom or studio within reasonable distance? (Ideally under a $1000 bucks, the lower the better) .

2. Is anyone familiar with the Ghana project? Is it still running? How does it work?

3. How's the representation of Seattle firms at EIP? Is it feasible to go in with a view to working in Seattle?

4. Kinda stupid question but do students at HLS pursue other opportunities outside law? (e.g. JD-preferred/required policy-related work etc)?

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acrossthelake
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby acrossthelake » Sat Jan 07, 2012 5:20 pm

Blessedassurance wrote:1. What's the absolute lowest price range one can expect to pay for a 1-bedroom or studio within reasonable distance? (Ideally under a $1000 bucks, the lower the better) .

2. Is anyone familiar with the Ghana project? Is it still running? How does it work?

3. How's the representation of Seattle firms at EIP? Is it feasible to go in with a view to working in Seattle?

4. Kinda stupid question but do students at HLS pursue other opportunities outside law? (e.g. JD-preferred/required policy-related work etc)?


1. Define "reasonable" distance as it means to you. To give you an idea, within 10 or so minutes of the school, a lot of the studios run in the $1300-$1500/month range, and one-bedrooms similarly run from that up to $2000/month. This drops as you get further and further away, but again, define reasonable distance. If you want to get under $1000 bucks a month, you might need to go to Central or Davis Square for a studio/one-bedroom. Alternatively, if you're okay with really tiny premises you might still be able to get that nearby. But the prices are definitely steep here. I know a girl who said when she originally went up to Cambridge to look for places, she and her bf had an original budget that they adjusted upward from where they were coming from, then realized they couldn't find anything at all with that budget, doubled it, and are still fairly unsatisfied with their living conditions.

Having a roommate really helps, but it's fairly expensive on your own. I pay well over $1000/month for a studio 5 mins walking distance away.

2. I have no idea.

3. Ehhhhh. When I looked at the data from 2 years ago, there were a couple, but they don't seem to give out too many offers since that year absolutely 0 students accepted any offers. I have a friend who I think got yield-protected out of Seattle. My friend was rejected or sorta waitlisted at all the Seattle firms my friend applied to despite basically having lived there until law school and despite having grades/interview skills strong enough to land a V5 job. It is definitely feasible, I think, but you need to prepare for the idea that it might not happen.

4. Would you consider POTUS an opportunity outside of law? :lol: I don't think many do straight out of law school, but sure, a lot of alums have gone down different roads. I know someone who has already decided to leave for consulting after graduating.

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Blessedassurance
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby Blessedassurance » Sat Jan 07, 2012 5:31 pm

acrossthelake wrote:
1. Define "reasonable" distance as it means to you. To give you an idea, within 10 or so minutes of the school, a lot of the studios run in the $1300-$1500/month range, and one-bedrooms similarly run from that up to $2000/month. This drops as you get further and further away, but again, define reasonable distance. If you want to get under $1000 bucks a month, you might need to go to Central or Davis Square for a studio/one-bedroom. Alternatively, if you're okay with really tiny premises you might still be able to get that nearby. But the prices are definitely steep here. I know a girl who said when she originally went up to Cambridge to look for places, she and her bf had an original budget that they adjusted upward from where they were coming from, then realized they couldn't find anything at all with that budget, doubled it, and are still fairly unsatisfied with their living conditions.

Having a roommate really helps, but it's fairly expensive on your own. I pay well over $1000/month for a studio 5 mins walking distance away.

2. I have no idea.

3. Ehhhhh. When I looked at the data from 2 years ago, there were a couple, but they don't seem to give out too many offers since that year absolutely 0 students accepted any offers. I have a friend who I think got yield-protected out of Seattle. My friend was rejected or sorta waitlisted at all the Seattle firms my friend applied to despite basically having lived there until law school and despite having grades/interview skills strong enough to land a V5 job. It is definitely feasible, I think, but you need to prepare for the idea that it might not happen.

4. Would you consider POTUS an opportunity outside of law? :lol: I don't think many do straight out of law school, but sure, a lot of alums have gone down different roads. I know someone who has already decided to leave for consulting after graduating.


Thanks I guess I've got to prepare to be shut out of Seattle. Oh well *shrugs*

By reasonable I mean within 20 to 30 minutes from the Law school possibly?
Last edited by Blessedassurance on Sat Jan 07, 2012 5:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby acrossthelake » Sat Jan 07, 2012 5:33 pm

Blessedassurance wrote:
Thanks I guess I've got to prepare to be shut out of Seattle. Oh well *shrugs*


Well, not necessarily. I think part of the problem might have been that she did SO WELL that they thought it was unlikely she would actually choose Seattle over a more "prestigious" market. I'll PM you some more stuff.

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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby Blessedassurance » Sat Jan 07, 2012 5:35 pm

acrossthelake wrote:
Blessedassurance wrote:
Thanks I guess I've got to prepare to be shut out of Seattle. Oh well *shrugs*


Well, not necessarily. I think part of the problem might have been that she did SO WELL that they thought it was unlikely she would actually choose Seattle over a more "prestigious" market. I'll PM you some more stuff.


Thanks.

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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby acrossthelake » Sat Jan 07, 2012 5:37 pm

Blessedassurance wrote:
By reasonable I mean within 20 to 30 minutes from the Law school possibly?


http://www.law.harvard.edu/current/stud ... index.html

This was about accurate if you were willing to go fairly far out. I did a lot of searching on craiglist in like March.

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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby tomwatts » Sat Jan 07, 2012 6:12 pm

Blessedassurance wrote:4. Kinda stupid question but do students at HLS pursue other opportunities outside law? (e.g. JD-preferred/required policy-related work etc)?

Not enormously common, but not terribly uncommon. A few people do joint degrees for this purpose (a JD/MBA for finance stuff, a JD/MPP for policy work), and a number of people do it with just JDs. The cross-registering options are, I'm told, pretty impressive (will be looking into this more in later years). Also, this guy came to speak for our section as a non-law HLS alum; they're out there, and they do everything you can imagine.

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DoubleChecks
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby DoubleChecks » Sat Jan 07, 2012 7:42 pm

roranoa wrote:
DoubleChecks wrote:
roranoa wrote:Ha ha, maybe I have but I didn't realize it. Maybe those people I didn't like in the past were the ones that people normally label "socially awkward"

But usually when I look at people I really don't care what they are like as long as they don't insult me or anything. I'm pretty tolerant with "weird" people.

I'm just asking if I might fit into a certain category where it is considered to be socially awkward.


I personally feel like I have met more "socially awkward" people since coming to law school (not necessarily in law school only); but then again, I also didn't know my classmates as well in undergrad where some classes were as large as 300 people...here, your whole year is but 550.

I don't think there is anything insulting about it. It is just...well...awkward. Imagine a hypothetical scenario where you are at a reception, go up to a young associate at a firm, and say hey X, how has it been? And he answers "good"...not in a mean way, just in a curt way. You ask a follow up question of what he's working on now; another one to two word response. He smiles and shuffles around, and silence ensues rather quickly. That is, in my mind, a good starting point for some social awkwardness haha.


Wow, I guess there is some differences in our point of view. I admit that the hypo scenario you mentioned counts as an awkward one but I wouldn't think the person to be socially awkward by character. I would just think 'I guess he's not in a talking mood' or 'I guess he's preoccupied' or even 'hmmm....maybe this guy doesn't like me or something' Of course then again, if that person constantly displays such behavior without reason I would also be labeling him awkward.

I don't know, as I come to think of it, it is somewhat hard to describe or explain what a socially awkward person is like because it's about the constant general feeling you get when you're with a that particular person.


Sorry, my hypothetical person constantly acts this way lol. And it is clear from the context, he isn't just in a not-talking mood (I tried to suggest that in my wording of the hypothetical, but must have failed to do so haha).

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DoubleChecks
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby DoubleChecks » Sat Jan 07, 2012 7:47 pm

Blessedassurance wrote:
acrossthelake wrote:
Blessedassurance wrote:
Thanks I guess I've got to prepare to be shut out of Seattle. Oh well *shrugs*


Well, not necessarily. I think part of the problem might have been that she did SO WELL that they thought it was unlikely she would actually choose Seattle over a more "prestigious" market. I'll PM you some more stuff.


Thanks.


The HLS site makes it seem like the Ghana project is still very much 'on':

http://www.law.harvard.edu/academics/cl ... ghana.html

As for the Seattle market, like many secondary markets not represented at EIP...mass mailing will probably be the way to go. I agree that one of the tougher things was convincing smaller firms that you even WANT to be at that firm. I think if you show genuine interest, say you REALLY want to come back, only interview with Seattle firms and let them know that (though this is obviously a risk), etc., you can convince them of your sincerity. By virtue of doing some secondary market and then NYC...they assume they are the backups.

I definitely experienced the same thing with some smaller TX firms; in fact, they openly noted many times how surprised they were that I would even consider interviewing there (much less go), and that was often transitioned into a "why us, no really why us" question. I personally think that hurts their image as firm recruiting reminds me a bit of dating sometimes, and such reactions come off as lack of confidence. Nevertheless, be prepared for those sort of moments/suspicions...and a lot depends on your dedication to a certain secondary market.

splbagel
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby splbagel » Mon Jan 09, 2012 1:24 am

kulshan wrote:One of my favorite web shorts follows an awkward protagonist.


Yes! Love ABG.

No matter how socially competent and brilliant all of you are, I'm looking forward to ASW being delightfully awkward.

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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby Leahgram » Tue Jan 10, 2012 3:23 pm

Not sure if anyone has asked this yet but for those of us looking at law schools and planning where to apply what kind of numbers did you have when you applied? (college GPA and LSAT scores) I am just tyring to figure out what I need to aim for.

splbagel
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby splbagel » Tue Jan 10, 2012 3:47 pm

Leahgram wrote:Not sure if anyone has asked this yet but for those of us looking at law schools and planning where to apply what kind of numbers did you have when you applied? (college GPA and LSAT scores) I am just tyring to figure out what I need to aim for.


Frequently Asked Questions: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=35133

Stats and results for TLS Harvard Applicants: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=162633

More stats: http://www.lawschoolnumbers.com/

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acrossthelake
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby acrossthelake » Tue Jan 10, 2012 6:31 pm

Leahgram wrote:Not sure if anyone has asked this yet but for those of us looking at law schools and planning where to apply what kind of numbers did you have when you applied? (college GPA and LSAT scores) I am just tyring to figure out what I need to aim for.


For Harvard you ideally want 172/3+ depending on the year and 3.8+ and the higher the better.

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Ballislife
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby Ballislife » Wed Jan 11, 2012 3:46 am

Can anyone comment on the Sports Law clinic at Harvard?

caminante
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby caminante » Wed Jan 11, 2012 12:09 pm

Before getting accepted to Harvard I was focused on finding the best school I could go to without taking out much (if any) debt. Now I am faced with a really hard decision that many of you had to deal with as well.

My husband and I already have substantial education-related debt from undergrad as well as his masters degree. The thought of taking on a lot more debt makes me sick... but so does the idea of passing up a Harvard Law degree.

So, my question for you is- Knowing what you know now, what is the maximum amount of education-related debt you would be willing to take on in order to graduate with a law degree from HYS?

Full disclosure: I have not heard back from Chi or Columbia yet, so I am currently only comparing H at most likely close to sticker with UVA $$$.

delusional
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby delusional » Wed Jan 11, 2012 2:20 pm

caminante wrote:Before getting accepted to Harvard I was focused on finding the best school I could go to without taking out much (if any) debt. Now I am faced with a really hard decision that many of you had to deal with as well.

My husband and I already have substantial education-related debt from undergrad as well as his masters degree. The thought of taking on a lot more debt makes me sick... but so does the idea of passing up a Harvard Law degree.

So, my question for you is- Knowing what you know now, what is the maximum amount of education-related debt you would be willing to take on in order to graduate with a law degree from HYS?

Full disclosure: I have not heard back from Chi or Columbia yet, so I am currently only comparing H at most likely close to sticker with UVA $$$.
I think that I would go up to 200k. But the biggest question is what the other options are. Harvard's need based aid is substantial, especially for older students who needn't consider their parents' income, and aren't old enough themselves to have a ton of assets. Also, if you're married, even what assets you do have are only counted as half.
Another thing you should be aware of is LIPP and how it will affect you. Unlike most other schools with loan forgiveness, HYS have allowances even for non-public interest jobs.
I did not have a ton of other options. My other realistic ones were Columbia with about 190k in debt, because outside of the Butler/Hamilton, the aid is not great; and Penn with essentially a half scholarship. I took on about $30k more debt at Harvard. I look at it as insurance - if I end up doing dog bite law for 40k a year, I won't have to worry about loans. Also, grades are not half the concern here that they are in other places. People work hard, but once the work is done, they are not as anxious because they have good prospects regardless.
One last thing to think about is how you can keep the debt down while you're at Harvard, no matter how much it costs. You have a better chance of getting a 1L job, or at worst, the stipend for public interest. You have a much better shot at a SA second summer than in other places. I am taking on more debt than I had hoped when I first started applying to law school. But I think that this was definitely the right decision.

tomwatts
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby tomwatts » Wed Jan 11, 2012 4:04 pm

I'm not sure that I have a reasonable answer, but I do have a suggestion. LIPP is great, and you should find out every detail, because it's a little complicated. One notable provision, according to a relevant page: "Up to $30,000 of combined undergraduate debt and debt incurred while pursuing an eligible joint degree with another Harvard graduate school is also eligible for LIPP coverage."

caminante
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby caminante » Wed Jan 11, 2012 6:43 pm

Thanks for the responses!

After a day of research and spreadsheets, I am feeling a bit better about the situation.

I really hope I can find a way to make it work!

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acrossthelake
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby acrossthelake » Wed Jan 11, 2012 7:05 pm

caminante wrote:Before getting accepted to Harvard I was focused on finding the best school I could go to without taking out much (if any) debt. Now I am faced with a really hard decision that many of you had to deal with as well.

My husband and I already have substantial education-related debt from undergrad as well as his masters degree. The thought of taking on a lot more debt makes me sick... but so does the idea of passing up a Harvard Law degree.

So, my question for you is- Knowing what you know now, what is the maximum amount of education-related debt you would be willing to take on in order to graduate with a law degree from HYS?

Full disclosure: I have not heard back from Chi or Columbia yet, so I am currently only comparing H at most likely close to sticker with UVA $$$.


It really depends what your other options are. I didn't have high enough money offers from anywhere else to consider the tradeoff worth it, but might've been swayed with hefty money from Chi or Columbia. Wouldn't turn it down for UVA $$$ though.

Junk
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby Junk » Wed Jan 11, 2012 8:06 pm

Nevermind.




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